An Open Letter to the CoH Community


Aces_High

 

Posted

You know what they should do?




They should remove ALL changes to the game that JACK thunk was a gud idear.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
You know what they should do?




They should remove ALL changes to the game that JACK thunk was a gud idear.

[/ QUOTE ]
they've done a pretty good job of repudiating the "design vision" from my seat here in the bleachers.

also, he must have had a few ok idears mixed in somewhere.

I don't remember any, but surely they exist?


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

ED was a big change.
People are resistant to change.
ED made this game better.


That's how I see it.


 

Posted

A lot of threads by him are still there in the Dev section.


 

Posted

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Case in point: The devs admitted ED was the change they lost the most subs over.

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Clarification: Jack Emmert said that they lost subscriptions over Enhancement Diversification. And to be brutally honest, I think he got that impression by reading the forums, not actually looking at the numbers.

Because if you actually look at the numbers (courtesy of MMOGCHART.com, based on reported subscriber numbers in NCsoft quarterly reports), net subscribership actually went up at the time Enhancement Diversification hit, not down.

And, of course, whether some people left or not is completely irrelevant. You're thinking short-term. The point of Enhancement Diversification was to allow for long-term balance of the game. Without it, I suspect there would be no PvP. In fact, without it, I question whether there'd be a game at all. I never let my subscription lapse, but I did stop playing the game for a few months way back before Enhancement Diversification hit because it was so excruciatingly boring. Without it, I suspect that a lot of people would have left a hell of a long time ago.

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They should remove ALL changes to the game that JACK thunk was a gud idear.

[/ QUOTE ]
So let's get this straight. You think they should just shut down the game then? 'Cause, you know, the whole "let's have a superhero-themed MMORPG" gud idear that JACK thunk of was a change from the Tolkien-themed 800-pound gorilla of MMORPGs out there.


We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)

 

Posted

ED was a giant crap sammich.
I'm glad you enjoyed your mouthful, but I was inspired to cancel.

If they'd had IOs ready to go it would have been fine, but they didn't so it wasn't.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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[ QUOTE ]
You know what they should do?




They should remove ALL changes to the game that JACK thunk was a gud idear.

[/ QUOTE ]
they've done a pretty good job of repudiating the "design vision" from my seat here in the bleachers.

also, he must have had a few ok idears mixed in somewhere.

I don't remember any, but surely they exist?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two things, related of course.

One, how much of what he did affects the stuff we do like? (Would Inventions be anywhere near the same - or in game - if not for ED and the limits put on?)

And the other... he was, after all, part of a team. What part of the idea is his? How much of Striga do we get rid of because Jack was in a meeting about it and said "Hey, that sound interesting, what about this?" What if he said, early on, "Y'know, Super Strength is an iconic set, we need to have that." Do all SS Tanks and Brutes then get deleted?

Obviously I have no idea how much of *any* of that he had input into, or what degree... but the "Delete anything jack thought was a good idea" is really rather shortsighted.


 

Posted

ED was ultimately a good change, most for the reasons TonyV outlined above. I think, far more than what ED actually was, it was the way ED was introduced that really rankled and still incites strong emotions in some people today.

Honestly, ED wasn't that bad. Coming close on the heels of the GDN and badly handled in terms of PR, however, it felt like adding insult to injury. In hindsight, that wasn't what it was, but that's certainly what it felt like. I'm glad these changes were made, but I'm still not convinced the way they were implemented was anywhere close to optimal.

On the flip side, I still see people sometimes who claim that X character was "retired due to ED" or is now "unplayable due to ED", which is hogwash.


With great power comes great RTFM -- Lady Sadako
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server

 

Posted

Without Jack Emmert, we'd probably never have this game to BEGIN with. I thank him for that, forgive him for his trespasses, and hope that he can move on without trying to diss his "old game" every chance he gets in the media.

...oh wait...


...[censored].


 

Posted

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ED was ultimately a good change, most for the reasons TonyV outlined above. I think, far more than what ED actually was, it was the way ED was introduced that really rankled and still incites strong emotions in some people today.


[/ QUOTE ]

This needs emphasizing. I'm sure several of the long-time folks here remember the progression:
GDN.
"We're done making massive changes to powers.
ED:
"But we didn't change powers. We changed how they're enhanced."

Technically, he was right. But it felt very... I don't know, bait-and-switch of him, or.. I odn't know, politician-y. And that ticked off a lot of folks and really tarnished his reputation.

Other comments like the infamous gameboy "I kept dying to a boss on a plane, and it was incredible fun!" (paraphrase) didn't help.


 

Posted

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On the flip side, I still see people sometimes who claim that X character was "retired due to ED" or is now "unplayable due to ED", which is hogwash.

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I have a character who 'retired' after ED, my AR/Dev blaster.

The combination was great fun with six-slotting, was a boring mess without it.

That boredom, a direct result of ED, destroyed my motivation to play him.

You can drag anything to 50, true, but that doesn't mean they're "playable".


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ED was ultimately a good change, most for the reasons TonyV outlined above. I think, far more than what ED actually was, it was the way ED was introduced that really rankled and still incites strong emotions in some people today.


[/ QUOTE ]

This needs emphasizing. I'm sure several of the long-time folks here remember the progression:
GDN.
"We're done making massive changes to powers.
ED:
"But we didn't change powers. We changed how they're enhanced."

Technically, he was right. But it felt very... I don't know, bait-and-switch of him, or.. I odn't know, politician-y. And that ticked off a lot of folks and really tarnished his reputation.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh c'mon, the dude was just a straight-up liar.

I mean you can lipstick up that pig if you want, but it doesn't really help. =P


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Oh c'mon, the dude was just a straight-up liar.

I mean you can lipstick up that pig if you want, but it doesn't really help. =P

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Without Jack Emmert, we'd probably never have this game to BEGIN with.

[/ QUOTE ]


 

Posted

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On the flip side, I still see people sometimes who claim that X character was "retired due to ED" or is now "unplayable due to ED", which is hogwash.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a character who 'retired' after ED, my AR/Dev blaster.

The combination was great fun with six-slotting, was a boring mess without it.

That boredom, a direct result of ED, destroyed my motivation to play him.

You can drag anything to 50, true, but that doesn't mean they're "playable".

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok seriously, this' the second time I've seen someone knock /dev. What the crap? How is AR/dev even remotely unplayable?


 

Posted

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On the flip side, I still see people sometimes who claim that X character was "retired due to ED" or is now "unplayable due to ED", which is hogwash.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a character who 'retired' after ED, my AR/Dev blaster.

The combination was great fun with six-slotting, was a boring mess without it.

That boredom, a direct result of ED, destroyed my motivation to play him.

You can drag anything to 50, true, but that doesn't mean they're "playable".

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok seriously, this' the second time I've seen someone knock /dev. What the crap? How is AR/dev even remotely unplayable?

[/ QUOTE ] It doesn't fit with his playstyle would be my guess.


 

Posted

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ED was ultimately a good change

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm inclined to agree. It caused issues, some of which still aren't fixed, but it ammounts to pulling a rotten tooth. Hurt to be done, but the body as a whole is better for it.

But my point is, that little survey when you cancel doesn't do jack.

The devs will do what they will, and in the case of Going Rogue it looks like they opted for the easy route: Repeat what they did with CoV (add a new city, despite the player base being spread out as is and ignoring the fact we have empty, content-starved zones going to waste) and do a feature that's fairly easy to execute (side swapping).

Now, I have to assume those plus pistols and demon summoning are the major features otherwise they would have hyped what was. That may change as the hype machine operates.

But at this point in time, in my opinion, Goign Rogue feels very much like an overhyped issue 16 they padded a little so they could slap a price tag on instead of a full blown real expansion and instead of something proper to answer the upcomming other super hero MMOs with.

So with that in mind, yeah I think there's a case to be made for people being bitter about things these devs would never deliver on but other super hero MMOs are offering. And they have every right to tell the devs and the community how they feel about it. Not everyone who leaves will say anything though. Some will just leave quietly, but still bitter, and that is also fine.


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Posted

<QR>

That section on official threads is too important to get buried on this thread. I think I'll start a new one to emphasize it.


 

Posted

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But my point is, that little survey when you cancel doesn't do jack.

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oic wut u did thar


 

Posted

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The devs will do what they will, and in the case of Going Rogue it looks like they opted for the easy route: Repeat what they did with CoV (add a new city, despite the player base being spread out as is and ignoring the fact we have empty, content-starved zones going to waste) and do a feature that's fairly easy to execute (side swapping).

Now, I have to assume those plus pistols and demon summoning are the major features otherwise they would have hyped what was. That may change as the hype machine operates.

But at this point in time, in my opinion, Goign Rogue feels very much like an overhyped issue 16 they padded a little so they could slap a price tag on instead of a full blown real expansion and instead of something proper to answer the upcomming other super hero MMOs with.


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I think you're judging the expansion a little early. We don't know all the stuff that is gonna be added. I'm not claiming there is much more than what has already been announced, I'm just saying we don't know.

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And they have every right to tell the devs and the community how they feel about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Not on the forums they don't.


 

Posted

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I think you're judging the expansion a little early. We don't know all the stuff that is gonna be added. I'm not claiming there is much more than what has already been announced, I'm just saying we don't know.


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That's fair. But we do know what they chose to hype so far as main features and what they have not.

"Grand reveals" are not something I've come to not expect from Positron, so I must express my doubts and say I'm inclined to take the expansion at face value (or lack thereof) at this point.


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And they have every right to tell the devs and the community how they feel about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Not on the forums they don't.

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I disagree.



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Posted

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Okay, I've gotta ask, it's bugged me for too long.


WTF is up with the dot three lines down at the end of all your posts? Is it representative of some lost loved one, or a reminder of some epic event from your childhood? Because it's driving me INSANE!!!!


 

Posted

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I think you're judging the expansion a little early. We don't know all the stuff that is gonna be added. I'm not claiming there is much more than what has already been announced, I'm just saying we don't know.


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That's fair. But we do know what they chose to hype so far as main features and what they have not.

"Grand reveals" are not something I've come to not expect from Positron, so I must express my doubts and say I'm inclined to take the expansion at face value (or lack thereof) at this point.


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And they have every right to tell the devs and the community how they feel about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Not on the forums they don't.

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I disagree.


[/ QUOTE ] You can disagree all you want, but the fact is these forums are owned by NCSoft. Which means none of us have a right to post anything. NCSoft could delete any post at any time simply because they wanted to(although that would be bad business) and they wouldn't be violating anybodies rights.


 

Posted

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Okay, I've gotta ask, it's bugged me for too long.


WTF is up with the dot three lines down at the end of all your posts? Is it representative of some lost loved one, or a reminder of some epic event from your childhood? Because it's driving me INSANE!!!!

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In a print medium like these forums, 90% of communication is lost. So, I've formed a habit of making sure I clearly illustrate my point in every post.




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Posted

That's probably the lamest pun I've ever heard.



No, wait. I've seen all of Chairman of the Board. Okay, that's the 1,934th lamest pun I've ever seen.


 

Posted

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"Champions Online is new so it will kill CoX"

I got tired of hearing it too. Most of this seems to come from people who left here bitter

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Maybe you should wonder WHY they're leaving bitter.
Maybe the devs should too.

Could it be that after years of asking for things they want, THESE devs still wont deliver on them but OTHER devs will?

Could be it that few or none of these things look like they will be in the overblown issue 16 they're calling an 'expansion'?

Or that the expansion means that a true sequel to CoH (which may have the things those people want) is not going to happen any time soon?

If our devs refuse to give these players what they want, and other devs will, why should the players be happy with our devs and why should they stick around? And leaving quietly doesn't deliver the message to these devs WHY people are leaving.

If the devs get the message they may smarten up.
Or they may opt not to fight for their business. Frankly, if they're not willing to fight for their customers, that says a lot about how they feel about their customers, and how their customers should feel about them and the game.



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i think a lot of what you're saying is based on false assumptions and trying to perceive everything in the most negative light. Of course this is just my opinion. While i don't think the Devs have done everything perfectly, i do think that, PVP changes aside, overall the game has changed for the better since NCsoft took it on.

Since you haven't actually given a concrete example of what you consider to not have been given that should have, or what has been done wrong, my reply will have to be very general in nature as well.

Honestly, if those other games are giving you everything you always wanted here, but were denied out of spite, i think you should go play them. If you change your mind you can always come back.

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I have Butane on ignore, so someone quoting his post made me see it.

Okay: People leave here bitter because they don't get from the devs what they want. I HIGHLY doubt that these type of people won't do the same thing when CO goes live if a feature they want does not get implemented. Yes, CO will have some features that we don't (or won't) due to the limits of the engine. But it does not say that everything will be possible. I guarantee you, someone will say similar things about CO because the devs promised something, but never made. And they will leave that game bitter.

I'm not debating that CO won't give us competition at all. I just don't think it will outright kill this game. It IS possible for multiple MMOs of a similar genre to exist. (As said in earlier posts). It makes it seem like CO guys would rather have their competition wither and die than have any at all.

Thought: Five years from now, the cycle will continue. Some new game will come out in 2014, and people will claim that it will kill CO or DCUO. (Probably from the same people who will leave CO during those five years from bitterness)


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