Dark/Nin; Abomination to mankind? (Advice)
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2009-05-14 06:22 in Stalkers
Try my guide. It's a little outdated, so don't trust the numbers, but most of its advice is pretty solid. The only exception is, Siphon Life is now your second best attack, so slot it accordingly.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
[ QUOTE ]
After messing around with almost every different stalker combo under the sun to around level 10 or so, I settled on giving Dark/Nin a go. The problem for me is that I have no idea what I'm doing with it outside of the Stalker basics (Get Assassin/Build Up/Placate ASAP, grab Fitness, etc.)
Basically I'm just looking for a rough guide to give me an idea of what is good and what is bad. Shadow Maul is garbage as I've found out, but what about the later things? And what about all those silly ninjitsu words? What are they, some kind of mansion?
Pounding it in advance to anyone who helps a fellow Stalker out.
[/ QUOTE ]How the hell is shadow maul garbage? Thats your best attack in the set. So what if it has a long animation. You can more than make up for it by lining up the cone attack. I just dont understand the hate for shadow maul.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[*]No 100% critical.[*]Long animation.[*]Can hit multiple targets, will not always due to melee cone.[*]More damage can be dealt to a single target in the same animation time with other attacks, meaning the only time it's worthwhile is when you get mobs lined up.[*]Time spent lining up mobs (or waiting for them to line up) is time that could be spent killing mobs instead.
I'd say it's far from the "best attack in the set". It's simply the only AoE. If you're going to want AoE, you don't play DM.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
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How the hell is shadow maul garbage? Thats your best attack in the set. So what if it has a long animation. You can more than make up for it by lining up the cone attack. I just dont understand the hate for shadow maul.
[/ QUOTE ]
Damage per animation time >>>>>> damage per attack, which is why DM fans heavily trend towards buzzsaw builds.
Siphon Life is indisputibly the best attack in DM nowadays, and with the recent buff to Midnight Grasp it isn't too shabby either. Shadow Maul just gets you stuck in place while you could have launched several other attacks and done considerably more damage in the same amount of time.
[ QUOTE ][*]No 100% critical.[*]Long animation.[*]Can hit multiple targets, will not always due to melee cone.[*]More damage can be dealt to a single target in the same animation time with other attacks, meaning the only time it's worthwhile is when you get mobs lined up.[*]Time spent lining up mobs (or waiting for them to line up) is time that could be spent killing mobs instead.
I'd say it's far from the "best attack in the set". It's simply the only AoE. If you're going to want AoE, you don't play DM.
[/ QUOTE ]Then yall are just doing it wrong. Lining up critters for cones is like second nature to me. It only takes a split second to do and the pay off for it is great since they changed cones. I can always make this power pay for itself and then some. I still dont see what the problem is critical or not its still good.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
No, it's not, because accepting your word as factual is like considering a faith healer and a medical doctor equivalent to one another.
No offence, but you've come out with a lot of BS claims in the past.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Eh, back when Eviscerate in Claws was the same size cone getting multiple hits with it wasn't too terribly hard, but in general I was still better off spamming Focus/Slash/Swipe in terms of overall DPS.
I've been informed that EvilRyu lives in another world, and comments made should be taken with a grain of salt.
I've got a lvl 50 Nin/Nin, and just created a DM/Nin.
Just looking at the Name "Shadow Maul" brought visions of a long painstaking animation to mind.
I won't be taking that power either.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
My first 50 in CoV was a DM/Nin and is still my favorite character. I followed ACs guide and found it to be beneficial.
Shadow Maul and Smoke Flash are both crap aka skippable.
Go Ghost Widow for Epic Arc.
Abandon hope, all ye who enter here!
- Dante, Inferno Canto 3
DM/Nin has what seems to be the loosest build possible for a stalker.
You don't need: Touch of Fear, Shadow Maul, Caltrops, Smoke Flash, Blinding Powder, Retsu, and with enough recharge you don't need Shadow Punch (I took it anyway)
(Note: Smoke Flash DOES have a use for stripping off agro if you bite off more than you can chew, however, with experience it will get less useful, as you will know your limits better)
That frees up plenty of space for optional and/or QoL powers.
On a plus side DM/Nin is also very capable of scrapping it out in a team setting, so you're not locked into a hit and run playstyle. That was it's biggest draw for me because I am a scrapper player at heart and didn't like the fact that 2 ATs that seemed so similar on the surface played completely different. I frequently forget I'm playing a stalker and leap right into the fray.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I have been running up a new DM/Nin after having gotten my EM/Nin to 39. All I have to say is WOW. I mean I knew DM was good with a defensed based secondary as I have a DM/SR scrapper and DM/SD Brute, but its almost scrapper like.
Plays very different than my EM/Nin which while nice, it appears to me the DM/Nin is a top tier combo. Lots of nice tricks between those two sets and a boatload of FUN!
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I'm thinking the Shadow Maul hate is amplified by the single target mindset of Stalkers. Also consider personal playstyle, if you can't keep up the attention and button pushing needed for buzzsawing you may be happier with Shadow Maul.
I guess the only downside is that you are counting on those other attacks to hit in the time it takes for one shadow maul.
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The only thing I don't like about Shadow Maul is when you miss with it, you look pretty silly.
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Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
I recently returned from a long hiatus in Azeroth. I rolled a MM first (sounded cool and I had not played a villian yet) but the second toon was a DM/Nin stalker. I just rolled it because it fit the character concept I was going for and after reading the forums a bit it seems I dumb lucked into a good decision. All kinds of fun, only 14 atm but I have no troubles whatsoever soloing any mission since I got Assassin's Eclipse and build up. I am having a bit of trouble selecting from the Ninjitsu powers though, I haven't needed defense or utility much.
As far as Shadow maul goes, I took it and like it quite a bit, not too hard to get two or occasionally 3 targets in the cone, If the targets are melee they almost set it up for you (with a minimal amount of strafing) for ranged mobs, just LoS pull em back round a corner and fire it off. Based on the comments I have seen I will likely spec out of it after I have leveled up a bit more but for now it has got me out a more than one tough situation, since even if it doesn't kill the mobs the hit-debuff on 2 targets with one keystroke is formidable.
[ QUOTE ]
I am having a bit of trouble selecting from the Ninjitsu powers though, I haven't needed defense or utility much.
[/ QUOTE ]
That will change soon. No, they're not changing the powers. It's just that you will reach a point where you are going to have to scrap it out after an AS, and that gets a lot harder if you have no defense.
I have a DM/Nin and I skipped all 3 of the utility powers in the set, and will probably be skipping the tier 9 as well (he's level 37 at the moment) I like the fact that Ninjitsu has powers in it that aren't absolutely vital that you can get away with skipping. Like you, I happened to pick a good combo because it sounded cool, I did no research whatsoever beforehand. Of course I also have at least 1 DM character from every AT that has it as a powerset too.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
can someone comment on this build. tryign to get it near or to the softcap without hide so far i am at 40.2% melee 42%ranged and 36.4% aoe. is it better to concentrate on trying tosoftcap this build or should i be focusing on something else?
any comments welcome
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 50 Mutation Stalker
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Smite <ul type="square">[*] (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage[*] (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance[*] (17) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge[*] (37) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (45) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (50) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)[/list]Level 1: Hide <ul type="square">[*] (A) Karma - Defense/Endurance[*] (3) Karma - Knockback Protection[/list]Level 2: Shadow Punch <ul type="square">[*] (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage[*] (15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance[*] (34) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge[*] (43) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge[*] (46) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (46) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)[/list]Level 4: Ninja Reflexes <ul type="square">[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance[*] (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[*] (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense[*] (43) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed[/list]Level 6: Assassin's Eclipse <ul type="square">[*] (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage[*] (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance[*] (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge[*] (11) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (11) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (15) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)[/list]Level 8: Build Up <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (9) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (9) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 10: Danger Sense <ul type="square">[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance[*] (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[*] (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense[*] (42) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed[/list]Level 12: Hasten <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (13) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (13) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 14: Super Speed <ul type="square">[*] (A) Celerity - +Stealth[/list]Level 16: Kuji-In Rin <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 18: Siphon Life <ul type="square">[*] (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage[*] (19) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance[*] (19) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge[*] (25) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance[*] (25) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (45) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)[/list]Level 20: Kuji-In Sha <ul type="square">[*] (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance[*] (21) Doctored Wounds - Heal[*] (21) Doctored Wounds - Recharge[*] (23) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge[*] (23) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge[*] (45) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%[/list]Level 22: Swift <ul type="square">[*] (A) Run Speed IO[/list]Level 24: Health <ul type="square">[*] (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery[/list]Level 26: Stamina <ul type="square">[*] (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod[*] (27) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge[*] (27) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy[*] (31) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge[*] (42) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End[*] (42) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge[/list]Level 28: Touch of Fear <ul type="square">[*] (A) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff[*] (29) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/ToHit Debuff[*] (29) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge[*] (31) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge[*] (43) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge[*] (46) Siphon Insight - Chance for +ToHit[/list]Level 30: Placate <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO[*] (31) Recharge Reduction IO[/list]Level 32: Midnight Grasp <ul type="square">[*] (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage[*] (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance[*] (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge[*] (33) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge[*] (34) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge[*] (34) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)[/list]Level 35: Blinding Powder <ul type="square">[*] (A) Cacophony - Accuracy/Recharge[*] (36) Cacophony - Endurance/Confused[*] (36) Cacophony - Accuracy/Endurance[*] (36) Cacophony - Confused/Range[*] (37) Cacophony - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge[*] (37) Cacophony - Chance of Damage(Energy)[/list]Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu <ul type="square">[*] (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance[*] (39) Red Fortune - Defense[*] (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge[*] (39) Red Fortune - Endurance[*] (40) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge[*] (40) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[/list]Level 41: Smoke Flash <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy IO[/list]Level 44: Dark Blast <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy IO[/list]Level 47: Shadow Meld <ul type="square">[*] (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance[*] (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge[*] (48) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge[*] (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge[*] (50) Red Fortune - Defense[*] (50) Red Fortune - Endurance[/list]Level 49: Combat Jumping <ul type="square">[*] (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed[/list]------------
Level 1: Brawl <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 1: Sprint <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 2: Rest <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 1: Assassination
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[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I don't like about Shadow Maul is when you miss with it, you look pretty silly.
[/ QUOTE ]
someone complained once that his wife used to stand behind him and say "Whiff whiff whiff whiff whiff whiff whiff whiff" when he missed with it.... I still think of that. Every time.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
If you really think Shadow Maul sucks, you might want to check out this video.
It could make you change your mind 
@Shimrra : dont count Hide out of your defense. Hide when suppressed (aka you're fighting) still give 1.875% defense non enhanced to all positions. So with enhancements it can be somwhere in between 2% and 2.5% and that helps alot when you're trying to reach the soft cap.
Yea, getting to the soft cap is a huge increase of survivability. Try to get it at least for Melee and Range, AoE is nice to have too but not mandatory in my opinion.
Check out the Zephyr set, you can slot it in CJ and SS in your build : it improves your range and AoE defense alot for just 3 slots. I wouldnt miss the opportunity of slotting a cheap Coercive Persuasion in Blinding Power either (5% range defense for free !)... dunno if it's cheap anymore btw, at least it used to be
[ QUOTE ]
If you really think Shadow Maul sucks, you might want to check out this video.
It could make you change your mind
[/ QUOTE ]
That bug is fixed on a patch on Test.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you really think Shadow Maul sucks, you might want to check out this video.
It could make you change your mind
[/ QUOTE ]
That bug is fixed on a patch on Test.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah ok, wasnt sure if it was a bug or working as intended. Personnally I suck at aligning 4+ targets in less than 2 sec, especially if I'm not the one having the aggro. But not having an AoE on a melee toon makes me frustrated enough I still have to try
After messing around with almost every different stalker combo under the sun to around level 10 or so, I settled on giving Dark/Nin a go. The problem for me is that I have no idea what I'm doing with it outside of the Stalker basics (Get Assassin/Build Up/Placate ASAP, grab Fitness, etc.)
Basically I'm just looking for a rough guide to give me an idea of what is good and what is bad. Shadow Maul is garbage as I've found out, but what about the later things? And what about all those silly ninjitsu words? What are they, some kind of mansion?
Pounding it in advance to anyone who helps a fellow Stalker out.
I was never really on your side.