An open letter to the Devs, re: PvP
By
Alexis_NA,
Posted on: 2009-05-07 17:04 in Everything about PvP
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(by the way - have people been flocking to the PvP zones since i13?)
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Yes there are more people paying $10 so they can flock to RV on Freedom.
PvP was and always will be way down the list of priorities.
LOL they are starting to make an effort now that CO and DCUO are coming out but i think it's a little too late.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I don't like it either but the good news is that the other game will have unsuppressed movement. Can we say Run and Gun baby!
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I found something very interesting in this old article that I first set eyes on today by Massively. Read and take a trip back.
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City of Heroes PvP changes explained at length
by Adrian Bott Oct 14th 2008 at 7:00PM
Filed under: Super-hero, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Patches, PvP
Floyd 'Castle' Grubb clearly does not know the meaning of fear. He's now unveiled a detailed breakdown of the foreshadowed changes to powers in City of Heroes PvP, and they're so radical it will probably be like playing a different game. Are these changes for the better? Once Issue 13: Power and Responsibility goes to Open Beta, we'll be sure to join in with the testing, because we can't wait to find out.
We already knew about the changes to mez protection (removed in PvP) but the changes go far, far beyond that. For example, simply being the target of an attack is enough to suppress your travel power for two seconds, though suppression won't be as severe as it currently is in PvE.
Buffs are subject to a 'diminishing returns' system, meaning no more stacking buffs for huge increases to ToHit or damage. Even healing is changed, with each successive heal giving you 25% resistance to healing for 15 seconds, so that 4 heals in close succession would make you immune to healing for the duration. Healspamming will no longer be a viable tactic.
Among the other changes are the addition of a range debuff to Taunt powers (a change that carries over to PvE) whereby taunting debuffs the range of powers by 75% - a change that was in fact suggested by the playerbase. Damage powers now calculate damage based on activation time rather than recharge, while all ATs become tougher and more resistant to damage while in PvP, leading to an increase in overall survivability. They're also a lot closer to each other in terms of damage output.
There's good news in there for those who have been waiting anxiously to see if Base Raids, Items of Power and the Cathedral of Pain Trial would ever be re-implemented. Castle as good as confirms outright that they will: 'We did a lot of work on Bases, Raiding and the Cathedral, but we have to save that for later -- those are all works in progress for a future update.' The four PvP zones are also set to receive revamps in a future issue.
There's a dedicated Arena PvP community on the US CoX servers, and many of them are agog at this news. Castle's stated goal in implementing these changes was 'for players to be able to bring any AT and powerset combination into PVP and to be competitive and have fun!' To a dedicated PvPer, that could well look like excessive democratization, taking away from the few for the benefit of the many. But then, if PvP is to be opened up to a whole new audience who had shunned it before, perhaps that's what needs to happen.
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If you missed it here it is...
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There's a dedicated Arena PvP community on the US CoX servers, and many of them are agog at this news.
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OMGWTFLOLROFL!
For all those who don't know, I'll give you all a quick rundown of the real PvP History...
Make PvP.
Ignore PvP.
Ignore PvPers.
Move MA to issue 14 to make improvements LOL and cram in a PvP "improvement" so it looks like we have content.
Ignore PvPers.
Live in denial and lie about PvP being more balanced, more fun, and more viable for all ATs.
Make some Arena Options.
We are not happy with the way slows are working but we will get to that in 2010 err maybe 2011.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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There's a dedicated Arena PvP community on the US CoX servers, and many of them are agog at this news.
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Wow...
that's just... wow.
Where the hell did this guy get his info from?
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
http://www.massively.com/2008/10/14/...ined-at-length
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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This one got me.
Issue 13 enters Beta
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It's significant that a new patch (coming either today or early next week so far as we can tell) will incorporate a lot of player feedback.
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Yeah. Uh huh.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
LOL I misread your question. I don't know exactly but I'm going to assume Castle or a higher up.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I'm going to say NC Soft's goon squad threatened his pets unless he wrote about the changes in a positive light.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
So it should read like this...
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There's a dedicated Arena PvP community on the US CoX servers, and many of them are agog at this news after being forced to wear a gag and nothing but chaps.
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A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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It's significant that a new patch (coming either today or early next week so far as we can tell) will incorporate a lot of player feedback.
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Yeah. Uh huh.
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C'mon Reiraku don't act like that, those people who hang around under Atlas all day really know how to give great PvP feedback. Gosh!
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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It's significant that a new patch (coming either today or early next week so far as we can tell) will incorporate a lot of player feedback.
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Yeah. Uh huh.
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C'mon Reiraku don't act like that, those people who hang around under Atlas all day really know how to give great PvP feedback. Gosh!
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I read it on the internet, so it must be true!
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Where the hell can I get that idiot's e-mail address at Massively? He's a massive doosh.
Is it really you Alpha_Zulu?
Well October was closed beta I believe so the information was through word of mouth (Dev/NC Rep) only and not actually play tested by reporters.
I'm pretty sure that the story would have been a whole lot different if Massively were allowed to check it out first hand.
I could be wrong though, it may have been as Reiraku said.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Fortunately though most players had there eyes opened after testing it.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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... I have nothing caustic or bitingly sarcastic to say.
This was an incredibly thoughtful and well delivered post (long as it was). I Really hope it gets read by a Dev. I suppose asking for this to be stickied won't do anything?
The changes made me give up PvP. I won't even step into the arena or zone anymore. Too much wasted time and practice on many characters to have it dwindled down to what it is now. The only thing keeping me in this game for now, is experimenting with new sets and running some of the content ive missed over the past year. Soon though, i fear ill be through all that and back on hiatus. I really wish Castle would revert the changes. He used to be the coolest Dev around, but now it seems like he is just hell bent on killing PvP. There used to be a time when player feedback mattered. Not so much anymore as drastic changes are made on a wimb.
The problem here is that apparently the people who did not like the I13 changes are a minority. I've been told that including PMs and feedback (both positive and negative) on the I13 beta boards, the number of players who like the new system was greater than the number of players who didn't, by more than a two to one margin.
I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that most of the positive feedback (i.e. "things are way better now than they used to be!") came from people that didn't PvP much, if at all, before the changes. My question now is, where are those people? I'm not seeing more people in the zones than I did prior to I13.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I can't see how the population has increased in any amount, ive only seen decrease and overall migration to Freedom. My home server of triumph has lost 4 pvpers that i know completely, as well as a few casual pvpers. I myself find it to be alot more annoying to pvp then before. Perhaps they are only measuring freedom's pvp population, becuase Triumph has all but died.
Protector is dead as well. Nobody is/was ever in SC or RV there since the Devs decided to kill PvP in the game.
I moved all my toons to lolVirtue cuz the immaturity level on Freedom in PvP was thru the roof. 
Even now with a server population greater than Protector ever had, the amount of people playing PvP on Virtue is nothing close to what it was in the heyday on Protector.
GG Devs.
I'll add my 2 cents to this thread.
I tried PvP for the first time today.
I'd been in the zones to get shivans and warburg nukes before, but never actually engaged any other players in a fight.
Today, on a whim, I thought I'd give it a shot, and see what it was like, maybe I'd enjoy it. So I logged in my softcapped, perma-hasten, capable-of-soloing-multiple-AVs-at-once level 50 fire/sr scrapper and headed to RV (on freedom).
To begin with, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to get out of the hero base. I thought the portal to the outside was a SG portal. Once I made it outside, I found there were already maybe half a dozen each of heroes and villains already fighting. I got invited to the hero team, and started fighting. I died pretty quickly, but I figured, hey, I'm new to this, I probably just haven't figured out the tricks of the trade yet. After a few minutes of rapidly dying every time I got in a fight, I started checking out my powers. Turns out that the billion and a half influence that I'd spent to turn my scrapper into an unstoppable killing machine meant nothing in the world of PvP. I was no longer anywhere near the softcap, nor was hasten even close to permanent.
And to top it all off, my powers didn't even WORK the same way. For some reason, practiced brawler only gave me mez protection for maybe 5 seconds, and it still only recharged every 2 minutes or so.
Don't get me wrong, I was aware that powers worked differently in PvP, adn that some new strategies might be called for if I was to be successful, but the true impact of it didn't hit me until I went there and did it.
I spent maybe 15 or 20 minutes there altogether, and I doubt I'll ever go back. I didn't like the fact that the build I had spent months earning the money for was gutted as soon as I stepped into the zone. I didn't like the fact that I'd have to re-learn how everything worked to be able to compete.
Having not played the old, pre-I13 pvp, I can't really say one way or the other whether I would have like it better, but I don't like what we have now. If the idea behind the changes was to encourage more people to try PvP and like it. it didn't succeed with me.
And you sir are the type of person this new pvp was made for.
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The problem here is that apparently the people who did not like the I13 changes are a minority. I've been told that including PMs and feedback (both positive and negative) on the I13 beta boards, the number of players who like the new system was greater than the number of players who didn't, by more than a two to one margin.
I'm going to go out on a limb and make the assumption that most of the positive feedback (i.e. "things are way better now than they used to be!") came from people that didn't PvP much, if at all, before the changes. My question now is, where are those people? I'm not seeing more people in the zones than I did prior to I13.
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To compound on this, because I've been thinking about it quite a bit:
They say that they got more positive feedback than negative over the PvP changes. Having no reason to doubt that (it was said that most of the positive feedback was in PMs so I can't dispute it), I think it may be something like this.
* It seems as though a very vocal minority did not like the PvP changes. Coincidentally, that minority also happens to be the group that spent the most time PvPing (i.e. people who spent most of their in-game time in the arena or zones, either on live or on test). This is at least somewhat backed up by the fact that not one person I've talked to who participated in I12 PvP in any great amount prefers post-I13 over pre-I13.
* The "silent majority" that prefers post-I13 PvP over pre-I13 PvP... who and where are they? To me, it seems likely that the ones who prefer the new PvP were those that tended to always be solo in zones and didn't like teaming. It also seems like those who prefer the new PvP were those that very rarely ventured into a PvP environment under the old rules, didn't do well, and instead of trying to PvP more often and learn to work with the system, simply gave up. Are these people now spending more time in the zones?
The problem here is this: the people that spent the most time PvPing before the changes did not like the changes. Those who PvPd on occasion - some like, some don't. For those of us who PvPd a lot under the old rules, we seem to have a consensus that post-I13 PvP isn't nearly as fun as pre-I13. In regards to zone PvP, there's really nothing we can do about that because there is no way to adjust options on-the-fly as there is in the arena. That's why those of us who are still around for the PvP should be pushing for arena options. Now, I'm aware that more options is not necessarily a good thing, and the existing options have caused quite a bit of a split in the higher-end playerbase. That being said, every checkbox we can get that will get us closer to being under the system we really enjoyed would be a step forward.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I like this games PvP no matter what you do to it because there are so many builds to counter. i don't care about what system i have to use to defeat other players, i just like defeating other players in this game.
I believe the Players that like i13 -i14 PvP are majority PvEers (i'm not a PvEer). They are vocal, but they seldom check the PvP boards, and when they do check these board I believe they don't really understand what we are usually arguing about. If i was a PvEer i would not post here and look like a dummy to you guys right?
/Signed
most of my friends also dislike TS