Best MA ideas for making villians REALLY BAD???
By
Amazing_Ant,
Posted on: 2009-05-07 09:51 in Mission Architect
Imagine, if you will, a villain group dedicated to stealing ALL of the world's anime supplies.
Steal the candy from Baby New Year. Beat up Gandhi and Mister Rogers. Then go kill Santa Claus.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I have exactly the same complaint. The "villainous" setting on player-made arcs is just an afterthought.
Most of the time you end up fighting demons (getting pretty sick of fighting custom group demons, because almost every arc seems to have them) or some completely irrelevant hero group, custom or not.
But I have done some pretty evil things in some arcs, just listing the things briefly without advertising.
*One had me kidnap contacts family, take them to Vazhilok, only to rescue them later and find that they have been all chopped up
(exposed brains etc.)
*One had me kil...erm, defeated bunch of Water Treatment Plant engineers and there was a hint that one of them was going to be a father
*One had me release virus into the Paragon City and destroy the humanitarian help arriving to the scene and the only hero who can cure the virus. The city was also full of NPC fights between the infected pedestrians and PPD.
*In one arc I had to kil....erm, defeat bunch of vigilante militia priests and nuns who were helping local homeless people.
When I beated up the priests around one homeless NPC, the NPC said "I can't handle this violence!", barfed on the floor and ran away. 
But yeah, as far as I recall that's all of them. Most of the "villainous" arcs lack when it comes to feeling "bad.":
Wow, I want to see some of THOSE arcs!
One of the big reasons I stopped playing redside is that it felt like Blueside Two.
I've got an arc where you construct a moonbase complete with death ray platform and successfully ransom Paragon City for ONE MILLION DOLLARS, if you're looking for classical evil + getting away with it. See sig for details. Oh, and one where you wade into a commune and just start beating the holy hell out of some hippies. 
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
I'm working on a villainous arc where you end up with some nasty WMDs of some sort, and during the arc you show a general disregard for life, property, and human decency. Not sure when it'll be done though.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
How to show your villain is bad, evil, the worst! 
CoH Codex : Demo Models/FX/MOVs : Demo Info
Arc 111022: "Doctor Geist and the Scientific Method"
I've heard that the villain arc in my signature is a little villainous.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
Have you tried 'Passion of the Heist' yet?
[ QUOTE ]
I have exactly the same complaint. The "villainous" setting on player-made arcs is just an afterthought.
Most of the time you end up fighting demons (getting pretty sick of fighting custom group demons, because almost every arc seems to have them) or some completely irrelevant hero group, custom or not.
But I have done some pretty evil things in some arcs, just listing the things briefly without advertising.
*One had me kidnap contacts family, take them to Vazhilok, only to rescue them later and find that they have been all chopped up
(exposed brains etc.)
*One had me kil...erm, defeated bunch of Water Treatment Plant engineers and there was a hint that one of them was going to be a father
*One had me release virus into the Paragon City and destroy the humanitarian help arriving to the scene and the only hero who can cure the virus. The city was also full of NPC fights between the infected pedestrians and PPD.
*In one arc I had to kil....erm, defeat bunch of vigilante militia priests and nuns who were helping local homeless people.
When I beated up the priests around one homeless NPC, the NPC said "I can't handle this violence!", barfed on the floor and ran away.
But yeah, as far as I recall that's all of them. Most of the "villainous" arcs lack when it comes to feeling "bad.":
[/ QUOTE ]
I really like the sound of some of the arcs you're talking about - and its not advertising because I'm asking for your arc ID # now. (I really like the integrity of not offering them up, though, in advance ... as I know I would have taken the cheap set up shot myself. Drat!)
As for others, who have said your arcs are villianous, could you elaborate as this one did. Thanks.
I wish there was a way to create an arc where you are a serial killer like Dexter ... have to sneak in a public building ... find someone alone ... kill them ... and then escape without getting caught. It would be fun for me, but I'm sure not popular since the basic idea would give hardly any experience or prestige, which is what most people want.
But Dexter always had to prove to himself that the person he was going to kill was worthy of being killed, so the first "mission" could be just finding evidence of someone esle's crime or series of crimes. The second mission could be Dexter making the killing. And the third and final mission could be cleaning up all traces of the killing. Again, though. very little experience or prestige so why would anyone bother?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm working on a villainous arc where you end up with some nasty WMDs of some sort, and during the arc you show a general disregard for life, property, and human decency. Not sure when it'll be done though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah im working on somethin like that too. I intend to create a totally amoral arc with [censored], child killing, people poisoning, animal torture and genocide ( textually since we cant do these things in game ). But there will be clues and glowies explaining what is going on and where it is going.
I'll name the arc "A day in the skin of a psycho. Business as usual. "
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
I guess you'd have to define what you consider "REALLY BAD." There's the puppy-eating, nun-shooting Westin Phipps kind of bad...which doesn't really appeal to me. I'm a busy villain. I can't take time out of my schedule of holding small countries for ransom, building death rays, and assassinating people who don't agree with me to squish a bunch of insignificant peons.
Then there's the kind of REALLY BAD I like to play, which I guess you could define as TOTALLY RUTHLESS. I am bad, I want to take over the world and rule it with an iron fist, and I will squish any insignificant peon who gets in my way. That's the kind of bad I want to see more of, because there is practically none in dev-created content.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the kind of REALLY BAD I like to play, which I guess you could define as TOTALLY RUTHLESS. I am bad, I want to take over the world and rule it with an iron fist, and I will squish any insignificant peon who gets in my way. That's the kind of bad I want to see more of, because there is practically none in dev-created content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm this gives me an idea on where to take one of the arcs I'm working on. (runs to a corner to scribble down the new idea..)
Everyones claiming to create these really villanious arcs, but they still seem to evade me. 
Hell I take anything that makes me feel like playing a villain instead of a hero. But in the end what do I get? I get to fight other villain groups, demons (I actually counted, 5 of the villainous arcs I did today had demons in them as enemies) and some vaguely (non-)interesting hero group.
Then there are the villainous arcs which are just meant for quick laughs like "Defeat Santa Claus".
Yeah, that's funny.
When we actually start getting truly villainous content, we can start discussing about arcs that let you conquer and crush peons. 
And Westin Phipps was brilliant, now whatever will he do with a blind mother and her daughter, Hmmmm.
Edit: Or was it the other way around, never the less, it made me smile.
[ QUOTE ]
Then there's the kind of REALLY BAD I like to play, which I guess you could define as TOTALLY RUTHLESS. I am bad, I want to take over the world and rule it with an iron fist, and I will squish any insignificant peon who gets in my way. That's the kind of bad I want to see more of, because there is practically none in dev-created content.
[/ QUOTE ]
For your consideration:
Axis and Allies (arc id #1379)
Go back in time, assassinate Hitler, and take his place. Lead the Axis powers to victory in WW2, crush democracy, and Conquer the World.
@PW - Police Woman (50 AR/dev blaster on Liberty)
TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"
Well for my one arc, it's alien race bent on conquest of the earth through experimenting on human's to find their weaknesses..So you get experiements of all kinds, plus the alien race is a nilistic lot, so you get the real nasty side of them..
NCSOFT may take away our servers and beloved dev team, but they can't break our spirit and community. with all your power, NCSOFT, your victory will be bitter-sweet. I, personally will be there to laugh at you when you face-plant into the ground.
I have an arc that leads up to defeating a hero and exchanging him with an evil alternate universe version of himself. Basicly you bring a new villain into our world while leaving the hero in another world where they'll think he's a villain and arrest him. Also you make it look like Nemesis did it, since everyone assumes everything is a Nemesis plot anyway.
The arc I made has the Axis troops using mind control techniques on child super-humans. >.> Then forcing them into training and into combat for them.
I think that's kind of evil.
Westin Phipps is not a villain. He's just a bully. Whatever will I do with a blind mother and her children? Don't care, not my problem. That's the kind of stuff you should be doing in Mercy Island.
I wanna be a supervillain people! Think Dr. Doom, think Nemesis. Only, you know, without the part where they always lose.
The "Axis and Allies" arc sounds like it has the right idea.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Mercy? You mean fighting snakes?
But yeah, CoV should have been planned so that you could be a supervillain, not locked into this Destined One Bullsh**. All the contacts just order you what to do, but freedom of choice comes with alot of work and limitations.
My friend made an arc where you unleash a virus into Paragon City and the contact in it is suppose to be as passive as possible.
He also tried to make it sound like majority of the things you do are your idea, not the contacts.
Also I don't know how anyone could be a busy villain with AE when majority of the villainous arcs suck and the dev made content follows the formula "Do something evil. do something more evil, go overboard, get scolded at, make it right."
But yeah, again with the Westin Phipps. The reason he appelaed to me was that as a villain (never played heroes again when villain lvl cap was raised to 50) I want to cause as much suffering as possible.
You know, kil...erm, defeating innocents, ruining lifes, breaking families apart, blowing up stuff, burning stuff up and see the possible happy ending not happening.
For example the Freakshow teacher trying to be rescued, the rescue attempt being thwarted and Westin talking about torturing her and broadcasting it live around Rogue Isles.
As for conquering the world, it's hard to make that stuff convincingly, atleast I havent seen one that would convince me "Guess what, you conquered the world".
They should have added a zone bit like mayhem mission and RV combined where the city morphs as you tear it apart.
Ok, I agree it would be very difficult to make an arc where you conquered the world, and make it convincing. However it is possible to build an arc where you end up one step closer. It is possible to build an arc where you go act ruthlessly as a means to an end, rather than the "being a jerk IS the end" villainy of Westin Phipps.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
My most villainous arc (28084) is only one mission long, but you do assist in some human trafficking. Had a couple of feedbacks saying the mish made them feel dirty.
It made me feel dirty alright, just in totally different place, EhEhehehehEheh.
But yeah, were the low scores (3 average) for the content or for some other reason?
[ QUOTE ]
Everyones claiming to create these really villanious arcs, but they still seem to evade me.
[/ QUOTE ]
You may want to try searching using the player-created tag system. In particular, putting both SFMA (Story Focused Mission Arc) and VSMA (Villainous Self-Motivated Arc) in your search box should get you a high mix of what you're looking for. Not everyone is using these yet, but it's the best option at the moment.
As to the larger question, there seems to be two fairly different sets of viewpoints as to what "really bad / really villainous" means. Neither is inherently right or wrong, but people with differing viewpoints will react to missions differently.
One viewpoint, let's call it Type A, is that it's acting to directly increase the level of suffering of the world, preferably in a way that flaunts societal conventions. Westin Phipps is the classic dev-created example here, although he's pretty small potatoes. This is appropriate for characters who are directly or indirectly working for some sort of inimical metaphysical agenda (demons, spirits of misery, etc.) and/or for characters who want to personally feel the suffering they're causing.
The other main viewpoint, let's call it Type B, is that true villainy lies in being a world-conquering megalomaniac, or at least working in that direction. They want the nations to bow down to their superior intellect / might / hairdo, and have *all* the loot there is to have.
Ultimately, the Type A villain is concerned with making sure other people have less foo, while the Type B villain is concerned with making sure they personally have more foo. What "foo" means varies (money, happiness, personal freedom, control over their destiny, cookies, etc.) but the underlying categories hold up pretty well.
As a quick test with a stereotypical phrase: Your villain takes candy from a baby.
If this mostly makes them smile because the baby doesn't have candy, is crying, and making other people miserable; villain is Type A.
If this mostly makes them smile because hey, they've got candy now, candy is great stuff and they didn't even have to work to get it; villain is Type B.
Note that there are other sorts of motivation categories that would be classed as villains by CoH that aren't concerned with being "really bad" as the OP was asking about.
The biggest one is probably the "overthrow some level of current society to reforge it in a manner they feel is an improvement" class; we'll call that Type C.
Note that Type B and Type C may both want to take over the world, or some significant chunk of it at least. The difference is that the Type B wants to take it because it'll then be theirs to do with as they please, and possibly as a stepping stone for the next level up; the Type C wants to take it over so they can reshape it into the ideological paradise they envision.
Whether they've got what at least some might consider nominally altruistic or even "good" goals (e.g. destroy all world governments and rearrange economies so no one goes hungry; overthrow Rhode Island and turn it into a mellow pot-farming hippie commune), "neutral" or just weird goals (e.g. force all snack food companies to produce only delicious cookies; make misuse of the apostrophe a capital offense), or malicious / "evil" goals (e.g. the sooner we implant thorns into the entire population, the closer we'll be to bringing Oranbega back; lava is fun, and there should be plenty for kids to play with - soon enough the pathetic non-fireproof ones won't be an issue), the Type C villain isn't primarily in it for themselves, but for some greater goal that they believe is worthwhile or even noble. Many would therefore exclude them from being "really bad".
With the above quick test, the Type C might encompass villains who took the candy from the baby because they believe that joyless puritanism should be enforced as the law in New England, because they're a vigilante crusader for dental hygiene who doesn't care about the collateral damage, or some other "larger cause" that's not really focused on the fact that you've got more candy and the baby has less.
Shameless plug: My #4031 Casino Extortion is carefully designed to have logical motivation for both quite evil villains of several types (you are well paid by a shadowy syndicate to kill people so that their parasitic vice palaces can run unopposed) and by quite good heroes of several types (you are defending the citizenry against bombs planted in public places by a globe-spanning neo-Nazi terrorist organization, and then tracking down the mastermind behind the plot to prevent him from committing further atrocities). I went to some trouble to write a "True Neutral" arc that I think does a far better job than most of the Dev-created "co-op" content about motivations, and has a tense plot flow.
Miuramir, Windchime, Sariel the Golden, Scarlet Antinomist...
Casino Extortion #4031: Neutral, Council+Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/CFMA]
Bad Candy #87938: Neutral, Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/HFMA]
CoH Helper * HijackThis
One of my biggest redside complaints was that my bad guys didn't really do anything REALLY vilianous. They stole from other bad guys, robbed a couple of banks and stores, kidnapped someone or other. But half the time I felt like I was fighting the same mobs I fought blue side.
The only arc I've made (while neutral) isn't about bad guys. So I was wondering? What's the best of the best BAD GUYS BEING BAD GUYS out there?
I'm not necessarily looking for arcs to try, though an example of what your talking about could be helpful.
But can we put out contracts on Nuns, for example? Go back in time and help prevent the fall of the Roman Empire? Can we find out where the Ghost of Xmas Present is and slay him with an Axe against the undead?
How are the best of you making your bad guys (and gals) really detestable?
Peace and love, peace and love ...