Things evolve, especially creative things. I'll give you an example. When Homer wrote the Illiad? He didn't have a 50,000 word dictionary. He had maybe 5,000 words.
QR
I fail to see how your comparison of the Illiad to the MA has ANY bearing on the original post.
Did Homer see other people using words that he was not given access to because they were not in his dictionary? Did he, perhaps, have to deal with aforementioned people occasionally removing words from his dictionary because they did not like them (thus forcing him to re-write everything thus far due to the 'invalidation' of these words in the already-written work)? No, I thought not.
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I fail to see how your comparison of the Illiad to the MA
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It's what Homer had to work with when he wrote the Illiad. He didn't have a 50,000 word dictionary. He couldn't (for instance) tell you that the "elite" Greek Soldiers clashed with the "peasants" of Troy--"elite" and "peasant" weren't in the Greek language.
So when your "elite" boss spawns as a weaker mob, or your Archvillian makes 10 of himself...it's because, like Homer, your tools are limited.
His was language.
QR
Apples and oranges. While I give you credit for trying desperately to make a connection, you are grasping at straws which simply aren't there.
And I say again...stop misquoting me!
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And I say again...stop misquoting me!
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Uh...everything I quoted you wrote. Don't like your own words? Stop writing.
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And I say again...stop misquoting me!
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Uh...everything I quoted you wrote. Don't like your own words? Stop writing.
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Yes, but just as omission of truth is lying, omission of half of a sentence is misquoting. You cannot pick out half of a person's sentence, pretend that it is a whole sentence (and thus has a different meaning), and then reply to that. At least, you cannot if you expect anyone to take you seriously (and we all know that Internet forums are "serious business").
However, getting back to the OP,
I feel your pain. When the mission architect first came out I was groping for several of the same features you complain are missing. All I can say is either stick it out until Issue 15 (when Mish Architect gets the shiny new things the devs couldn't stuff into Issue 14) or deactivate and wait until 15 to try again. Regardless, you should definitely play Issue 15 though 
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You cannot pick out half of a person's sentence, pretend that it is a whole sentence (and thus has a different meaning), and then reply to that.
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I can do whatever I want.
See? Your whole sentence. Means the same thing. All your other sentences? Meant the same thing. Go back and list where I "wronged" you. Go back and take the sentences I quoted and say where they didn't mean what I quoted them to mean.
Dude. I've done this same thing with 1000's of other people and you're the first that ever cried about it.
*sigh* Can we at least attempt to stay on topic here? Seriously, if you'd like to make this into an argument with me, at least have the politeness to move it to personal messages, so that the thread isn't derailed any further than it already has been.
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*sigh* Can we at least attempt to stay on topic here?
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Dude...are you on drugs or what's up? You're the one that went off topic.
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*sigh* Can we at least attempt to stay on topic here?
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Dude...are you on drugs or what's up? You're the one that went off topic.
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Hmmm.. Who started comparing the MA to the Illiad again?
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
Homer? 
All work and no beer make Homer something something... 
Dec out.
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Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.
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The form itself is also horribly limiting.
Someone has said that you should wait till it gets I15s shiny new features. I'd say the feature it really needs is for the devs to start playing straight with the players and stop undoing the work people have done.
To the Homer guy. One classical greek had a lot more than 5000 words and if Homer wanted to he could make up more. He also didnt have someone erasing his memory whenever they got a feather up their rear to do so.
The issues I have with MA are not the technical stuff that you listed. The reason why I don't like MA is because it draws from the game. Yea, its fun to do a MA mission once in awhile, but ultimately, I like running from contact to contact, running REAL missions, and earning rewards.
I don't like that people can just create easy missions and power level themselves to 50. What's worse is that they can create their own faction that is REALLY weak or ridiculously strong.
I've seen this happen to a lot of other games. the designers implement something that seems really fun and really cool, but then it gets out of hand and ruins the game. I have a feeling MA is going to take over, and there will be very few people actually running normal missions.
Basically, in my personal opinion, I feel that MA ruins the game. Its great for the power gamers whose only goal is to see how fast they can get to lvl 50, but at the same time, it ruins the part of the game that makes you feel like you are playing a true hero, or a true villain. Now you're basically playing a video game within a video game. I'm not sure how much I am going to come back and play it anymore, but we'll see. I have no other games to play right now anyway, so I might as well play CoX.
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I don't like that people can just create easy missions and power level themselves to 50. What's worse is that they can create their own faction that is REALLY weak or ridiculously strong.
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What your neighbors get up to must drive you completely round the bend.
Okay, in an effort to stay on the damn topic...
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Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.
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These are all legitimate complaints, and ones that I agree with completely. I want more slots; I've filled mine and I have 7 more arcs waiting in the wings, even with the devchoice I managed to land. Fortunately, buy slots are coming... these are not an option for everyone, but they at least are fair, in that anyone COULD get them. If they tied them to some broken metric like ratings, that'd be rageworthy.
The ratings system is terrible, but I think the search improvements coming are going to help. Right now the primary means to find arcs is Sort By Ratings, which is worthless. With tagging we should be able to actually narrow down what we want and ignore the ratings. I also expect hall of fame changes; the current one's unworkable.
File size limits, I'm with you there. More is ALWAYS better. But I've done plenty of good stuff within the current limits, and while I'd dig more, this can be worked with.
More objective types are likely coming. The "turn hostage evil at destination" hints that they WILL have leading hostages to glowies eventually -- it just didn't make launch. The faction shift is the sort of thing that makes more sense at a glowy than a door, after all.
Removing maps is a shame and I do wish we had confirmation they'd come back, agreed.
S/N is a pain in the [censored], but again, I think improved search is going to help here, as is the annihilation of completely identical junk arcs of an agricultural nature.
Now, all that aside... my advice? Fold for now. For NOW. I'm doing the same, I mean, I have no slots so there's really no point in working any more in the MA in general. But I'm not quitting for good since a lot of these issues are either being addressed in I15 or are likely to be addressed in the future.
It's more a matter of waiting it out for the tool to reach the state you want it to be in. There's nothing wrong with putting it aside and focusing on something else in the meanwhile, but I don't suggest abandoning ship forever -- what you want addressed is going to be addressed at some point.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
As someone who has played with a lot of game editors, one of the truths you have to face is learning the limitations of the tool you are provided. They are always limited and semi-broken but if you want to create your stories for others to play then you have to get used to them.
I'll agree with that, as well. If anything, as an artist, I THRIVE under limitations. As a kid I'd make games with crap like Turbo Basic and push that thing right to the envelope, and have fun doing it. Limits help guide you, help you write stories that match your resources and use them to the fullest.
So, MA's limits, while chafing, are ones I can work with. Low size? Make each custom count. Not many goals? Chain them in interesting ways, make the story compensate for the simiplicity. Etc.
It's the external factors -- the craptastic rating system, the signal to noise ratio -- that are out of my control as an artist and thus frustrate the most. But I like what I'm seeing in the works for I15, which are addressing those issues, and that means in the future the MA should be more workable.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
Basically this thread is all about QQ I can't make what I want. Get over it!
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Basically this thread is all about QQ I can't make what I want. Get over it!
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...why yes, that is a very constructive and helpful insight, thank you. I shall promptly get over it.
Oh, wait -- I already HAD, if you'd actually read my posts instead of stampeding in to achieve some sort of Internet Alpha Male Dominance. Even with flaws, I'm okay with the system and its promise for the future, and I'll be using it more once the next issue releases with more fixes and changes.
Global @Twoflower / MA Creator & Pro Indie Game Developer.
Mission Architect Works: DIY Laser Moonbase (Dev Choice!), An Internship in the Fine Art of Revenge (2009 MA Award Winner!) and many more! Plus Brand New Arcs for Issue 21!
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Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.
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Then by all means, stop using it - it's not a game requirement, it's a game option for you to use, or not use as you see fit.
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Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.
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Then by all means, stop using it - it's not a game requirement, it's a game option for you to use, or not use as you see fit.
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I thought he had very good constructive criticism of the MA he did not bash everything he listed things he disagreed with I did not see him bashing the Devs or anything I thought it was more of I think they should look at this.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.
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Then by all means, stop using it - it's not a game requirement, it's a game option for you to use, or not use as you see fit.
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I thought he had very good constructive criticism of the MA he did not bash everything he listed things he disagreed with I did not see him bashing the Devs or anything I thought it was more of I think they should look at this.
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I have absolutely nothing against the OP and in fact do agree with a lot of his points, that said; what would you expect a "No, don't quit the MA, please"...? Nowhere in my reply did I bash or disparage the OP.
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5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
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This is the only one of your points I'd consider a legitimate short-term concern. I'm not saying they shouldn't remove buggy maps while they repair them, but since people are probably actually using these maps, they should take special care to mention their removal in the patch notes before they do so. I know stuff gets lost from patch notes all the time, and it usually isn't a huge deal, but since this affects people's work, they should have a separate system in place to ensure that notes potentially affecting existing MArcs aren't missed.
Your other concerns I'd say are either probably-unavoidable technical constraints (100K limit) or indications of a system-in-progress. I can't fault you for not wanting to work under those limitations, but they can be worked with, and many people have done so.
The great thing about that is, IMO, that even if you don't want to create arcs, you can still enjoy the MA by playing other people's excellent arcs.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
The MA has issues
I have created and published one arc. And gone over it extensively. I am in no rush to fill my slots. I am now working on a second arc.
My first arc now has 52 ratings I think. It seems slow compared to the dev choice. But if I write a brilliant short story and it sits on my computer - no one reads it. If I make a module for my pen and paper gaming group - 4 people play it. So compared to the alternatives, MA is getting me a lot more players than anything else.
The loss of a map was annoying, but I will live. My arc wasn't perfect with the map, it is not terrible now.
Really, I think the key is to accept the limits and have moderation in your use of it.
Just to list the issues I have with the MA -
1. Limited publishing slots. Have to throw away ratings, stars, etc. to publish.
2. Ratings system: Too volatile and open to griefing.
3. Small file size. Not that I want a ton more, but 100k is just a little too restrictive. I'd get along find with about twice that.
4. Limits on objective types (can't lead hostage to WP, can't set a specific boss w/a specific onjective) and bugs (Hostages changing groups, Boss animations not working)
5. Removal of mobs unique maps from the system with no timeline for replacing them (and at least in the case of maps, no announcement that they were even removed).
6. Signal to noise ratio. Trying to get something played a lot without a large SG or Voting Cartel is like winning the lottery.
All in all, the MA is an interesting idea, but with the limits on the system, I'm not sure if it's worth the time.