Discussion - Release Notes for 18.20090422.2T
By
Animorph,
Posted on: 2009-05-05 10:21 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Before, impressive pillar of pink/violet energy, perfect for a swarm of Storm Elementals, minions of a mad god, who share those colours mind you, to use to contain their incredibly powerful prey.
After, a tiny, sad, wussy ring of green and blue that doesn't match their colours or have a tenth of the visual impact or grandeur the old one had.
Comparison (Link)
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Gah. That's worse-looking than I had thought. I have to assume it's broken, as that's practically no effect at all. Certainly, if that's the intent, it's a lot more than "slightly modified" and whoever thought it was should be lectured about misleading patch notes.
Personally, the original "it was intended for a specific use" argument for changing it doesn't hold much water with me in any case. Yes? So? So was the Clockwork King's factory map, Ruludak's cave, and Vahzilok's sewer, and those are all in there unless they were removed by this patch. People are using the effect precisely because it isn't commonly seen (and looks pretty cool). The green CoT equivalent? Seen WAY too often.
(I didn't get a chance to test this patch on TR, otherwise I certainly would have complained about this then, as the patch note has been rubbing me the wrong way since it was first posted.)
Embrace the customizability of the game. Don't cripple it with arbitrary restrictions on what we can and can't use. Taking stuff out of the Architect (or omitting it) needs to have a good reason, where good reasons are technical constraints or a lack of time, not simply "our cool content, not yours".
Unless you plan on putting new effects and maps into the game SOLELY for the Mission Architect -- and I mean a LOT of them -- you are just going to create bad blood by arbitrarily preventing us from using the small amount of available content that isn't already heavily overused.
(I'm also a bit fed up with the "every other patch invalidates missions and requires a redesign due to stuff being randomly removed from the Architect" thing, especially when there's no explanation why those things were removed or whether they'll be back. I think I'm going to be waiting until you guys get the MA content more stable before bothering to work with it further. Maybe you should consider compiling a list of things that shouldn't be there and post it now so people can predict which missions will break whenever you get around to fixing it.
Or more likely, attempt to convince you to leave it in... maybe that's why this hasn't been done. Hmm.)
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Unless you plan on putting new effects and maps into the game SOLELY for the Mission Architect -- and I mean a LOT of them -- you are just going to create bad blood by arbitrarily preventing us from using the small amount of available content that isn't already heavily overused.
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No kidding. Already lost an arc because the last map took place on the Crey Revenant lab map...which was pulled. And the map was perfect for my arc since it involved a crazy geneticist working with Crey to make a bunch of freakish monsters by cloning an original.
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Ahaha there goes the rikti... bet ya boss farms will be the next on the list to go...
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Boss farms probably aren't going anywhere. Lvl 42 Rikti Comm Officers gave above boss XP while being crappy by minion standards. Making it pretty much the most needed nerf AE could possibly get. By comparison, bosses can actually -hurt- most people. They aren't an unreasonably easy way for most people to get XP, just for really tough characters/teams.
All here who passionately embraced the MA and are now ready to walk away raise their hands...
*looks around the room...*
Ok. hold on while I go get a calculator.
I already unpublished my stories on both accounts.I'm done with the ma.
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No kidding. Already lost an arc because the last map took place on the Crey Revenant lab map...which was pulled. And the map was perfect for my arc since it involved a crazy geneticist working with Crey to make a bunch of freakish monsters by cloning an original.
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Yes, the second half of my two-part arc uses it as well. Both halves are currently nonfunctional (not sure why the first one broke, as I've got no errors listed, but I don't feel like fooling with it much at the moment).
I'm willing to accept the possibility that the Crey map wasn't deliberately removed. On the other hand, if it was deliberately removed, it needs to be in the patch notes, ideally with a better explanation than "Oh, you shouldn't be using this. Use a generic map instead."
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All here who passionately embraced the MA and are now ready to walk away raise their hands...
*looks around the room...*
Ok. hold on while I go get a calculator.
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You really need a calculator to count yourself?
and I thought I was bad at math.
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I think the AE is going to drive more people from this game than any other change ever made.
I've already had one person tonight say he was quitting, closing both his accounts.
I've heard ALOT of others talking about it.
I have said all along, that if they Piss off the Farming Community, and they leave the game, it will make the PVP Exodus look like a Sunday Outing.
Unfortunately, I fear this is the beginning of just that.
I rarely Farm, so please don't flame me for being Pro-Farming, as I take a live and let live view on it.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
*edit* Here here... this counts at least 10 arcs that I know of (Including AtD below) that are now busted because this map is gone. There are others that used the Burning forest map that are also hosed. So far I only know of those two maps being pulled based on feedback from the thread I started. Don't know if there are more however as there was no mention in patch notes.
Would love to know if the maps were pulled intentionally or by accident, and if in the future a commitment to putting map removals/additions in the patch notes can be expected.
I have to go back and scrutinize the "standard" maps now and try for one with a similar feel, check spawn placments etc.. but after spending 3 weeks on Atd, (and 2 more on SD) I was looking forward to actually playing for awhile instead of doing more authoring. I'm having an attack of OCD however that says "I must fix it NOW!" whenever I log in... and it just disillusions me to think that I may have to go through it all yet again the next time a patch hits.
Janrith
Triumph Heroes:
=============
Saunik: lvl 50 Mutant Sonic/Electric Blaster
Photaun: lvl 50 Peacebringer
Taukezo Kensei: lvl 50 Natural Willpower/Dual Blades Tank
Published Arcs:
7326 Avenging the Dead
135096 Superhero Downtime
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Here here... this counts at least 10 arcs that I know of (Including AtD below) that are now busted because this map is gone. There are others that used the Burning forest map that are also hosed. So far I only know of those two maps being pulled based on feedback from the thread I started. Don't know if there are more however as there was no mention in patch notes.
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Burning Forest was badly bugged. Destructable items would stack on each other or not spawn, blinkies would spawn inside trees. If its being removed to fix it, I'm glad. I agree that patch notes would be nice though.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
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The new "Captured (Energy Field)" animation is almost exactly the same as it was before, minus the large rays of psychic energy emanating from Penelope Yin.
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It was PRECISELY that large purpleish effect caused by the "rays" that made it so attractive. I was using it to show a Nictus being implanted into a human, and it looked great. The new version looks nothing like I wanted it to. At all.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
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There are also a lot of player emotes that might be fairly quickly and easily be converted into encounter animations and made available for use in MA content.
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Any way you can look into going the other way with this as well? There are animations available for custom NPCs that players don't yet have access to.
OK enough is enough, I would like to ask the Devs a few things about AE:
Why was AE released to the community, then when the community used it to their benefit it was constantly nerfed to try and stop the power-levelling?
Now this is like giving someone a Christmas present, then saying a week later you want it back whilst scolding them for opening it in the first place.
AE WAS released first on the test servers right? Did the devs not realise that missions would be published in order for players to power-level?
Mellee critters getting ranged attacks? Come on WTF??? Seriously, is this the only way that DEVS can think of making farms harder so the player base is less likely to use said farms?
I think there are several problems with the AE system that need addressing right away:
1. Remove xp from ALL AE missions. Why I hear you say? Well the AE missions are ruining the rest of the game, seriously has anyone done paper missions with a full group since AE was released? I state my case!!
2. The economy has been turned upside down since AE, don't believe me well check out the prices for platinum (a RARE salvage item) before AE it was selling for 2-5mil each, since AE 250-600k each. Now add to that the increase in common salvage prices (because nobody does standard missions anymore) and the whole rare/common tags are now meaningless.
3. Rewards for AE Tickets should be changed to remove the ease of buying rare items, rare items should be rare.
4. Change the drop rates in standard missions to increase the likely-hood of getting rare salvage & purple recepies, give players a reason to want to play normal missions again. Since AE I started a character and only did 2 missions from Mercy, the rest was AE achieved.
5. Disable ability to use all aoe's in AE Building, this just causes lag
6. Make it possible to enter an AE mission using any AE building in any zone, so that if one person is in mercy, 1 is in port oakes and the rest in cap then they can all enter a selected ae mission from where they are. This would hopefully reduce the amount of players in Cap
these are just a few suggestions/comments, I know alot of these will annoy players, some will like the ideas some will hate them but seriously we all have to agree that something has to change or we loose the rest of the game over AE
/discuss please
GG Guys, the Ranged attacks for Melee sets seems rather redundant with your Zero Policy on farming anouncment, I liked the idea to be honest but it has been poorly executed in a knee jerk reaction to farming. Someone, credit to them cant rember who it was, posted a great idea in making a Ranged attack mandatory but giving us the choice on what one. Cause right now my custom Martial Arts/Mental Manipulation, Tech based Critters throw Shiriken and my 'as close as can be' Custom EB of my WP/EM tank is blasting away with a blue power blast when his story doesnt really alot for Energy blasts (dont worry, wont bore you with the details).
I would love to see the system remade so we can select a base set then add or remove from there. Where a Melee Critter has no ranged it would be made invalid untill a ranged attack is added, even if its an immob. Another idea might be to unlock all critters to the 1-54 range so exemping and SKing is always needed, this would eliminate large potential for abuse and open the system to more flexibility for those that use it correctly.
Everything that the Devs have done since release, and even before, is reaction to abuse and cripples the system for those that use it correctly. I've almost given up on my arcs because of the ugly, unthematic (to the way im using the powers) and forced additions of ranged attacks to Melee sets. I agree with and see why they were added, just would like a better implimentation with more flexibility.
EDIT: didnt quite finish one sentence lol
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All here who passionately embraced the MA and are now ready to walk away raise their hands...
*looks around the room...*
Ok. hold on while I go get a calculator.
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You really need a calculator to count yourself?
and I thought I was bad at math.
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Yeah, except the following quotes are just from the last two pages of this thread.
"I already unpublished my stories on both accounts.I'm done with the ma."
"I think the AE is going to drive more people from this game than any other change ever made."
"I've already had one person tonight say he was quitting, closing both his accounts."
" I have to go back and scrutinize the "standard" maps now and try for one with a similar feel, check spawn placments etc.. but after spending 3 weeks on Atd, (and 2 more on SD) I was looking forward to actually playing for awhile instead of doing more authoring. I'm having an attack of OCD however that says "I must fix it NOW!" whenever I log in... and it just disillusions me to think that I may have to go through it all yet again the next time a patch hits."
"some will like the ideas some will hate them but seriously we all have to agree that something has to change or we loose the rest of the game over AE"
"I think I'm going to be waiting until you guys get the MA content more stable before bothering to work with it further."
That doesnt even count the threads in the MA forum by indiviiduals saying the same thing.
I'm one of the most ardent, addicted, CoH loving people in the game. The MA was sooo exciting, and I worked on arcs non stop since it came out. I havent touched it since the patch and saw how damaged all of my work was. I can guarentee I'm not alone as the quotes above show. This was poorly handled, poorly explained (or NOT explained) and now has been poorly responded to.
For the FIRST time since I've heard about it, Im considering trying Champions online when it comes out. I think its later this year. This sounds like a childish rant. but I can guarentee it isn't. Its just that I've now seen how bored I am with the same old 1-50 stuff, and the new MA system which had me thinking I'd found a new source of fun has now lost all of my confidence. Im not putting in hours of work to have it invalidated without so much as a sorry and in a half [censored] fassion when, looking back now, people were complaining about these changes when they were still on test and the Devs frankly ingnored them.
I'm a big proponent of player-created content, and that hasn't changed in the slightest.
I'm not leaving over this stuff or anything, and I do expect the Architect to eventually settle down (it can hardly be considered usable until it does). I'm just irritated by it ... or more accurately, by the (apparent) rationale behind some of the changes.
In any event, I'm keeping an eye on Issue 15.
Why in the HELL are maps being removed? People put all this time and effort into making arcs, then the devs come along and arbitrarily start pulling things out which breaks what they've created. Seems like a really bad move if you are at all concerned about customer satisfaction. Using unique maps makes missions a bit more entertaining rather than going through one of the standard ones for the 10,000th time. We need MORE unique maps, not less.
In regards to farming, I don't do it, it just doesn't float my boat. But a lot of my friends do, because they do enjoy it. So why focus on stopping farming so much when such a large part of your playerbase enjoys it? Again, seems like a great way to lose customers, especially with a boatload of competition just about to hit the streets. Farmers are not 'ruining' the game, other people crying about farming are ruining it. They're the ones who inspire all the nerfs, piss people off to the point of quitting, reduce the playerbase, reduce the market and take untold amounts of time away from the devs that SHOULD be used to create new content, fix bugs, add powersets, etc - you know things that would actually make the game better. Stopping the farmers would not make the game better. If you removed the farmers from this game, it would be a damn ghost town, and it would probably take a decade to IO out your toon. Let people enjoy the game the way they want to and you play the game the way you want to.
And finally, the thing that pissed me off the most was posi threatening people who pay to play his game. Again, I have not used any of these 'exploits' - pl'ing and farming bores the crap out of me. But these 'exploits' are the result of the devs work. Don't blame people who play your broken mechanics, blame your workers for making broken mechanics - and fix them if they're broken.
I love this game, but I gotta say, the way the devs have been doing things lately, has me pretty ticked off. The long lag between releases, demolishing pvp, and now this ridiculous reaction to farming and ripping apart AE while people are using and enjoying it. I sincerely hope you guys wake up before you destroy this game that we all love.
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Why in the HELL are maps being removed? People put all this time and effort into making arcs, then the devs come along and arbitrarily start pulling things out which breaks what they've created. Seems like a really bad move if you are at all concerned about customer satisfaction.
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Because the maps are bugged and need to be fixed, and rather than leave the broken versions up while they fix them, they pull them off so people don't keep on running the arcs and downvoting / reporting arcs.
Like I posted a few pages back, Burning Forest would sometimes fail to spawn some destructable objects, or spawn collection items inside a tree. This made the arc uncompletable, which earned me several bad ratings and complaints. It should not have been released live on that broken state. I assume the other "missing" maps suffered from similar bugs.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
I know i made a map and i didnt have a few unlocks that i was able to use " didnt know it at the time" and my map was unplayable after they shut servers down... but i went and got the unlocks and now im able to play them...
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Why in the HELL are maps being removed? People put all this time and effort into making arcs, then the devs come along and arbitrarily start pulling things out which breaks what they've created. Seems like a really bad move if you are at all concerned about customer satisfaction.
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Because the maps are bugged and need to be fixed, and rather than leave the broken versions up while they fix them, they pull them off so people don't keep on running the arcs and downvoting / reporting arcs.
Like I posted a few pages back, Burning Forest would sometimes fail to spawn some destructable objects, or spawn collection items inside a tree. This made the arc uncompletable, which earned me several bad ratings and complaints. It should not have been released live on that broken state. I assume the other "missing" maps suffered from similar bugs.
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First of all, if correct, this would be excellent information to include in the patch notes, right?
Secondly, those bugs seem to be something an AE designer can work around until the devs fix the map. Clearly you were aware of the bugs - so remove the collectable objects until the map is fixed or change the map. The map might work fine for 80%, 60%, 50% of people who are using it in their mission. When the devs pull the map, it ruins the map for everyone, even those it was working for.
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Why in the HELL are maps being removed? People put all this time and effort into making arcs, then the devs come along and arbitrarily start pulling things out which breaks what they've created. Seems like a really bad move if you are at all concerned about customer satisfaction.
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Because the maps are bugged and need to be fixed, and rather than leave the broken versions up while they fix them, they pull them off so people don't keep on running the arcs and downvoting / reporting arcs.
Like I posted a few pages back, Burning Forest would sometimes fail to spawn some destructable objects, or spawn collection items inside a tree. This made the arc uncompletable, which earned me several bad ratings and complaints. It should not have been released live on that broken state. I assume the other "missing" maps suffered from similar bugs.
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First of all, if correct, this would be excellent information to include in the patch notes, right?
Secondly, those bugs seem to be something an AE designer can work around until the devs fix the map. Clearly you were aware of the bugs - so remove the collectable objects until the map is fixed or change the map. The map might work fine for 80%, 60%, 50% of people who are using it in their mission. When the devs pull the map, it ruins the map for everyone, even those it was working for.
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My Burning Forest map defaulted to a random Portal Corp. tech map, which was quite the opposite of the mission theme. The map I'm substituting is kind of messing up the story.
It really would be nice if they would just disable the specific objective that is causing issues for the map. If not, at least give us a heads-up in Patch Notes. After all, a mission with Arachnos questioning Banished Pantheon captives on a Portal Corp. map is...odd at best.
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It should not have been released live on that broken state.
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...is becoming an all-too-common theme.
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Like I posted a few pages back, Burning Forest would sometimes fail to spawn some destructable objects, or spawn collection items inside a tree. This made the arc uncompletable, which earned me several bad ratings and complaints. It should not have been released live on that broken state. I assume the other "missing" maps suffered from similar bugs.
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I think that's the larger issue here. I remember a thread about a week before MA was released with them saying that it was "just about ready for release" and people warning in the thread that it was nowhere near ready. At the time, I kind of agreed but thought it was a bit hasty to say "nowhere near."
I now get why everyone was upset, and why companies shouldn't make official release dates for products with major suppliers before they've finished with beta testing.
Hibernate is NOT fixed for Controllers or Tankers. Though it now has a graphic effect assigned to it, it is using the Ice Control's hold FX.
Screenshot
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The new "Captured (Energy Field)" animation is almost exactly the same as it was before, minus the large rays of psychic energy emanating from Penelope Yin. If you're seeings something radically different and wouldn't mind posting a screenshot, it might help me track down what's going on.
It's actually an effect for a Rikti 'containment field'. If I remember the mission correctly, they had captured Penelope Yin and were using her as a psychic battery to open a portal to their homeworld.
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Speaking of Ms. Yin, whatever happened to the "destroy the psychochrometron" animation at the end of the Agent G's arc? Instead of that happening, Penny just runs for the nearest door.
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