Devs no nerfing on this please
By
AncientSpirit_NA,
Posted on: 2009-05-03 14:19 in Mission Architect
When some people are leveling from 1-50 in as little as four hours... the devs are probably going to do something about it. Possibly something you don't like. Especially if you're already negatively disposed to them (thinking that MA was put in because they're "lazy").
In the end, though, it really doesn't matter what you or I or anyone but the Devs want or think is fun. It's their game, not ours. Our only choice is whether or not to keep paying to play it.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Cant argue with what you said which at times is the problem. As for the lazy part I wasn't exactly calling the devs lazy per se however it could be perceived as a way of getting around having to produce new content all the while getting paid to have paying subscribers to do it for you.
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Cant argue with what you said which at times is the problem. As for the lazy part I wasn't exactly calling the devs lazy per se however it could be perceived as a way of getting around having to produce new content all the while getting paid to have paying subscribers to do it for you.
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Worked for Tom Sawyer. I am surprised that more elements of the publishing business don't make their slush piles available via the internet. Somewhere out there there are people that will pay to read through every bad science fiction story ever sent to analog, every would be Doc Smiths space opera, every would be George O Smiths gadget yarn, well you get the idea.
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...it could be perceived as a way of getting around having to produce new content all the while getting paid to have paying subscribers to do it for you.
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To those who believe this is true (not you, Duff): Positron has said that in the 24 hours after MA went live, the community posted more missions than the Devs did in 5 years. Granted, some of that had been created on the Test server, and some was "practice" and not to be taken seriously, but if you look at the number of missions that have been created since then, and assuming that 1 in 100 could be considered professional quality, we can still say that we're outproducing the devs.
In other words, they'd have to hire thousands of people to equal our output. Even if that was practical -- isn't this better?
Besides, we get to make characters and missions without having to compete for the paying jobs, and then having to move to northern California if we get it. And remember, it's only work if someone makes you do it.
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And remember, it's only work if someone makes you do it.
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It's only work if your getting paid--we're paying them.
"I love this game, I love my characters, but within the structure of the game, they will never have a statue in Atlas Park, they will never be anything more then a second-stringer that a degenerate writer could kill off without even asking the editor."
-- Rapulis
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And remember, it's only work if someone makes you do it.
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It's only work if your getting paid--we're paying them.
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And I'm enjoying it. 
My account is prepaid until November. Enough said.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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And remember, it's only work if someone makes you do it.
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It's only work if your getting paid--we're paying them.
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And I'm enjoying it.
My account is prepaid until November. Enough said.
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I can say I have had more fun in the last few weeks than in the last 3 months in this game.
I even had time yesterday and was able to run a TF as well as it is been easier to get groups even non farming ones people wanting a team to help run their arcs.
I done that a couple times and had fun doing it
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Worked for Tom Sawyer. I am surprised that more elements of the publishing business don't make their slush piles available via the internet. Somewhere out there there are people that will pay to read through every bad science fiction story ever sent to analog, every would be Doc Smiths space opera, every would be George O Smiths gadget yarn, well you get the idea.
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That there are a lot of Smiths? Yes.
Dec out.
Personally I can't find a way to argue for or against this.
On one hand yes I understand it's your $15 you play how you like, while on the other I'm realizing how much of the game is being ignored while people enjoy their new shiny toy.
But, IMO you can't make everyone happy, and you won't see me complaining if the devs decide that using MA to level up so quickly is simply an unintended side effect of the new issue. Yes we are all clamoring to hold onto our new shortcut to 50, but you didn't even have this shortcut until recently.
Really though, I'd love to see MA regulated somehow. Using it to snag a few quick levels every once in a while is fine, but I myself see it as a mistake to use it to grind all the way up from the start. That's just not what CoH/V is about.
I don't have an issue with the massive and fast xp gain per se, but I do have an issue with players who don't know how to play the game and being given a high level toon.
This is what the MA farms/meows/PLs have given us. While it is great to have new blood coming in, the problem is that when you allow someone to play the same mission over and over again and rapidly gain levels, there is zero encouragement to learn about their powers, the enemies or the game mechanics or background.
The level system is there to encourage players to learn about the game and how to use their powers in an appropriate fashion. When you have a massive influx of players, it will be difficult for the rest of the population to absorb them. By absorbing, I mean to help them along in making them productive and informed citizens of Paragon/Rogue Isles.
By allowing the existing scheme to continue, you will just put the experienced players at odds with the inexperienced newbs. While there is a certain segment of those players who will get up to speed quickly, it usually takes more experienced players to help them along. If you overwhelm the experienced players, there will be many inexperienced players 'left behind'. Those players will be marginalized and will not understand how to build their toons or how to get the most out of this game.
I think the holes should be closed and an alternate method given to players who have many 50s and have a lot of experience in making toons and have done the same content over and over again. Perhaps there should be a way to 'bank' or 'buy' levels such that experienced players can skip levels using influence/infamy/tickets/merits etc.
As an aside, I've farmed some of these 'meows' and have noticed many issues with new players not knowing what to do. One thing I noticed from no fewer than 3 different fire controllers is placing their bonfire on top of a densely herded mob. Now most of the time it was masked by the stacked -kb of my ice controller, but it's happened often enough that I've seen tornadoes and bonfires scattering mobs nilly willy from inexperienced players. They were leveling so fast that they didn't know/care what the powers did or meant. What will they be like on their first Rikti Mothership raid? Will they quit in frustration? Will they just give up? How well will they be seen as reliable allies on TFs, Hamis etc.?
Will other players now look at badge counts as being an indicator of a good player? I think this easy xp is going to have ramifications outside of the meow mishes personally.
Perhaps the worst side of it is that new players right now are having trouble finding a team that isn't a farm. The game must seem preety dull to them.
Didn't we learn anything from the Winter Lords?
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Didn't we learn anything from the Winter Lords?
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Feed two people identical stimuli and you get three different responses. Given that since the WLs we have had xp smoothing and patrol xp what the devs took away might not be what you think should be learned
So, to answer the question, no we did not.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
The farming will calm down for the most part. I know I did it briefly, to try out a couple powersets that I didn't feel up to leveling normally in the past. Its kind of been nice to try some different sets on ATs that Ive already played.
Some will keep farming, but I think the greater majority will get a couple characters up, then return to enjoying everything else this game has to offer.
Pretty much. I've admittedly farmed a few characters to the 20's or late 30's for stuff. heck. I'm trying to farm a storm defender to 45 for defender only runs and such. but I cant say farming is all bad because
That defenders been on multiple runs with so many mobs that aggro caps were likely to kill us left an right.
But thats how I learned to love storm/dark for just how effective it is as keeping people alive through that
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
... I'm hoping you stopped PL'ing the stormie once you got Hurricane.... that's when they turn into tankfenders...
(( my Stormie was my second-fastest leveling character, the first was a Fire/Rad troller that was on a superteam run one night a week. We went from 1-12 in a few hours, and then leveled to 40 doing TF's in half the time they were designed for. The Stormie? Normal mixed teams. ))
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
This is the same arguement that was used against Power Diversification. Players know what they want better than the Devs, and it still isn't true.
Many players (people) will happily shoot themselves in the foot if there seems to be a short term advantage in it, regarless of the long term consequences. This is evidenced by players in FPS who only play in God mode then complain that Hard mode is too easy lol. Or by people who went on missions with pre-nerf Fire Tanks and stood at the door for 4 hours a night collecting experience, then complained CoH is boring. Well DUH!
Your aren't meant to reach 50 in a few hours. This cheats you of the game playing opportunity and undermines the basis of the game. They need long term players paying monthly fees, this isn't a charity. So the Devs walk a tightrope between making "good" progress and making "too good" progress.
It is also unrealistic to say that players ALL like MA superleveling. Even saying most like it probably isn't true. Like anything else some like it, some hate it and the rest ignore it. There have been just as many "Stop the Farmer" threads as there have been "Save the Farmer" threads. Too many of both.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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This is the same arguement that was used against Power Diversification. Players know what they want better than the Devs, and it still isn't true.
Many players (people) will happily shoot themselves in the foot if there seems to be a short term advantage in it, regarless of the long term consequences. This is evidenced by players in FPS who only play in God mode then complain that Hard mode is too easy lol. Or by people who went on missions with pre-nerf Fire Tanks and stood at the door for 4 hours a night collecting experience, then complained CoH is boring. Well DUH!
Your aren't meant to reach 50 in a few hours. This cheats you of the game playing opportunity and undermines the basis of the game. They need long term players paying monthly fees, this isn't a charity. So the Devs walk a tightrope between making "good" progress and making "too good" progress.
It is also unrealistic to say that players ALL like MA superleveling. Even saying most like it probably isn't true. Like anything else some like it, some hate it and the rest ignore it. There have been just as many "Stop the Farmer" threads as there have been "Save the Farmer" threads. Too many of both.
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to paraphrase, "You people are too stupid to know what you want"
Troll elsewhere please.
I don't mean to troll or start an argument ... but I must point out that even withouth farming ... I am often able WITHIN JUST ONE OR TWO HOURS take a brand new character from level 1 all the way to level 10.
HOW LONG CAN THIS CONTINUE?????"
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Ok im going to be careful on how I word this since at times it seems like if a player has anything to say other than COH is the greatest thing since powdered toast others seem to take a personal offence. I was skeptical at first over issue 14 pretty much believing it a way (and still hold to some extent) that this was lazy devs way of getting around actually doing their job and producing new story arcs but instead have people pay to do their jobs for them.
I still hold that to some extent however I do find the Architect and some of the player arcs fun. So I say Devs you did a great job! Now please dont touch it. It has barely been up and yet I am already hearing how there are plans to nerf tickets, fix a percieved glitch in leveling and daily deletions of player created content.
Perhaps it is just me but there seems to be a schism between what players consider fun and what Developers consider fun. If we like and are playing it dont touch it. In my opinion what you have implemented here is something that is balancing and self regulating.
Many players may not want to do weeks worth of level grinding. I myself who has a number of 5's have power leveled not wanting to go through 1-20 pain. In this you have a system that allows players to avoid certain pains to level grinding and provided pvp players who want to experience high end pvping a way to level up a toon with out weeks worth of work.
Now all you need to do is fix pvp and provide high level and better content for those who enjoy the pvp experience. Since this issues implementation I have seen a significant drop in the price gouging that was going on in the market allowing characters to purchase IO sets and salvage without having to spend billions in influence.
I have seen salvage drops such as prophecy or Pangaea soil go for as high as 10 million on the block. Thanks to the ticket system now they are affordable. the system you have implemented is self regulating. By running a farm of this nature a player actually has to learn how to play his or her build properly if they are going to farm. Also players who have been power leveled are easy to spot by other veteran players and word gets out fast if a person does not know how to play.
So I personally see no need to make "changes" to the system and I would also say there is no fear in this becoming an excessive farming tool that would endanger pve or pvp content.
This is a new toy for many players and like all new toys people will play it, eventually get tired and return to pve. Since you the devs are in the entertainment business it is about what your audience likes and not necessarily what you the developers may want to think of as fun.
Since most of what I have read seems to suggest that most players like mission arc I hope you keep that in mind in the coming weeks. Once again Great job on this latest issue
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Slight misconception here. The developers don't make money on anyone having fun. Fun is a secondary concern to subscriptions. If it comes down to a choice between the two, they're going to go with whatever choice they feel will keep the most people subscribed for the most amount of time possible.
Anything else is suicide.
How fortunate we all are that fun and staying subscribed are generally tied together. This is a case where they're not.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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to paraphrase, "You people are too stupid to know what you want"
Troll elsewhere please.
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Just because people don't agree with you doesn't make it a trolling.
Welcome to the internet. If you don't want you opinions questioned stay home.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Ok im going to be careful on how I word this since at times it seems like if a player has anything to say other than COH is the greatest thing since powdered toast others seem to take a personal offence. I was skeptical at first over issue 14 pretty much believing it a way (and still hold to some extent) that this was lazy devs way of getting around actually doing their job and producing new story arcs but instead have people pay to do their jobs for them.
I still hold that to some extent however I do find the Architect and some of the player arcs fun. So I say Devs you did a great job! Now please dont touch it. It has barely been up and yet I am already hearing how there are plans to nerf tickets, fix a percieved glitch in leveling and daily deletions of player created content.
Perhaps it is just me but there seems to be a schism between what players consider fun and what Developers consider fun. If we like and are playing it dont touch it. In my opinion what you have implemented here is something that is balancing and self regulating.
Many players may not want to do weeks worth of level grinding. I myself who has a number of 5's have power leveled not wanting to go through 1-20 pain. In this you have a system that allows players to avoid certain pains to level grinding and provided pvp players who want to experience high end pvping a way to level up a toon with out weeks worth of work.
Now all you need to do is fix pvp and provide high level and better content for those who enjoy the pvp experience. Since this issues implementation I have seen a significant drop in the price gouging that was going on in the market allowing characters to purchase IO sets and salvage without having to spend billions in influence.
I have seen salvage drops such as prophecy or Pangaea soil go for as high as 10 million on the block. Thanks to the ticket system now they are affordable. the system you have implemented is self regulating. By running a farm of this nature a player actually has to learn how to play his or her build properly if they are going to farm. Also players who have been power leveled are easy to spot by other veteran players and word gets out fast if a person does not know how to play.
So I personally see no need to make "changes" to the system and I would also say there is no fear in this becoming an excessive farming tool that would endanger pve or pvp content.
This is a new toy for many players and like all new toys people will play it, eventually get tired and return to pve. Since you the devs are in the entertainment business it is about what your audience likes and not necessarily what you the developers may want to think of as fun.
Since most of what I have read seems to suggest that most players like mission arc I hope you keep that in mind in the coming weeks. Once again Great job on this latest issue