Going Back To i12 pvp petition?
By
Akuma_Mishima,
Posted on: 2009-04-26 14:28 in Everything about PvP
the changes were 2 issues ago. adapt and move on.
Leader of the NITES of DARKNESS VG
Join my fan club today!
[ QUOTE ]
the changes were 2 issues ago. adapt and move on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.
If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.
If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know things are bad when people think PvP in i12 was good
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.
If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
[/ QUOTE ]
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Former King of PWNZ
Franziska Von Karma says you will listen to every word I say.
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You know things are bad when people think PvP in i12 was good
[/ QUOTE ]
What can you say? A Big Mac is better than a dog turd sandwich
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I just wonder if everyone who prefers i12 style pvp over this new pvp, if we all made a petition would castle change it back?. With hard numbers of player base disapproving of the new pvp?
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose. When i13 was in closed beta, we pointed out what wasnt really good about it and he just seemed to ignore us. Then that whole debacle with the "things you like positive about i13 pvp" (which was like 3 pages long) And "The things you don't like about i13 pvp" (which was like 100 or so pages long)
It was an incredible disparity, sometimes you just have to man up and go back to the drawing board. I13 clearly needed to be reworked, re thunk, redid, reconditioned and any other re's i missed just take it away. I did well in i12 pvp, i did well in i13 pvp, i guess what? still do well in i14 pvp. And to be honest i can use toons in i13-14 pvp that i didn't really excel with in i12 or before i12.
Yet i12 was way more fun, more competitive, less button mashers, all it needed was a tweak here or there. A buff to a set here, a added power there and it would be cool. But i put this out there and hopefully the devs will look at it.
I12 pvp in it's old form, add the new patrons/epics, buff weaker sets like dark melee, electric blast. Add the taunt -range deal, i can even take DR on outside buffs heals. That would be cool DR on OUTSIDE BUFFS or HEALS, Id even suggest a feature that makes buffs weaker the further you are from the caster that would cut back on base bot using super toons.
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If they got rid of the Travel Suppression i would kiss all the devs babbys and wish tehm good luck for der rest of there life(tell coh dies)
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I did well in i12 pvp, i did well in i13 pvp, i guess what? still do well in i14 pvp. And to be honest i can use toons in i13-14 pvp that i didn't really excel with in i12 or before i12.
[/ QUOTE ] I had to quote myself so the two non readers wouldnt miss where i said this. It's obvious i adapted, but as someone mentioned it's not fun. And for someone to even make a comment like adapt in move on probably wasn't successful in pvp until i13. Or just can't understand the difference, from lack of pvping. And yes it's a shame when things have gotten so bad that the old way seems good in comparison.
It compares to growing up in the ghetto of any urban American city, and then suddenly awakening in a war torn portion of Afghanistan, oh my how that ghetto seems so good now.
Movement suppression, Heal Decay, Diminishing Returns, Mez Resist, The TP deal, Squishies at their resist capp(tank Mages), Npc's in their normal state in zones, Universal Slow resist, Buffers being useless, toons playing different in pvp than they do in pve.
If you feel pvp is better with that list of stuff included, than you are obviously just trolling and didn't pvp, and are just glad things are like this so you can button mash and not face alot of good pvp'r because so many quit.
There is no excuse that a defender, can stand toe to toe in melee range with a WP tank, fight club style and win. This disgusted me when i did it and what made me post to be honest. I took my rad defender, and fought my buddy in the arena. I didn't kite, didn't use strategy, and it wasn't skill. I stood their in his face and mashed buttons until he died all 3k+ hp of his tank.
He has a WP/SS purpled out accoladed tank, my defender had 1 numinas and 1 miracle for end purposes and the rest basically a SO build with a few IO's here and their nothing mentionable. And i didn't even feel threatened and that's BS and not what pvp should be. When he did hit me, since I'm at the resist capp for my toon it didn't really hurt nothing my self heal couldn't handle.
Edit: Oh and did i mention squishies run with more resist than most melee class toons? Why don't they get this in pve? Answer.. they would put melee out of business, why be a scrapper when i can be a hoarfrost/hibernoob hp capp blaster and kill just as many mobs but at range for max damage and defiance?
Why no mez resist? Answer if pve mobs mezzed you like zone npc's and you basically had to sit their until it wore because Breakfrees no longer work i see massive despair from the coh pve community.
Why no heal decay? Movement suppression? or the other crap i didn't mention? Answer.. The whole despair deal comes to mind, maybe some flames, subscription cancels and things.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
I would like to have both i12 PvP and i13/14 Fight Club.
[ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
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They should make it easy and just have 2 selection settings for the arena. Fight Club Mode (i13/i14) and Evil Mean Ganker PvPers Mode(i12).
Additionally, keep all current zones with the i13/14 setting but create 2 new zones.
The first should be one gigantic train station so we could have multiple Fight Club events under the i13/i14 rules. Also create a duel challenge setting to allow for uninterruptable 1v1 encounters.
The second should be a trap filled cave maze with really powerful Boss/EB neutral critters that attack both factions but, have this zone follow the i12 rules.
We could call these new zones "Station to Honorville" and "Maze of Redemption".
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You know things are bad when people think PvP in i12 was good
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I must agree. The PvP is bad but the Fight Club is so damn good.
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What can you say? A Big Mac is better than a dog turd sandwich
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A Big Mac is a dog turd sandwich.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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I would like to have both i12 PvP and i13/14 Fight Club.
[ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
[/ QUOTE ]
They should make it easy and just have 2 selection settings for the arena. Fight Club Mode (i13/i14) and Evil Mean Ganker PvPers Mode(i12).
Additionally, keep all current zones with the i13/14 setting but create 2 new zones.
[/ QUOTE ] Ironically that's a very good solution and would satisfy all sides and shut everyone up. Similar to how you can have multiple zones when a server is crowded make different zones a
i12 style zone and a I13/14 zone and arena settings problem and crying solved. Hint: Hint: Castle Hint:
If that's possible game wise maybe we can see something like this in the future.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
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I would like to have both i12 PvP and i13/14 Fight Club.
[ QUOTE ]
Adaptation isn't the issue. Whether one finds it fun or not is.If they added the arena options to remove the rest of the i13 changes (mez durations, protection, universal resists, DPA changes), then I'd be happy. With just what we have now, it comes out somewhat half-baked.
[/ QUOTE ]
They should make it easy and just have 2 selection settings for the arena. Fight Club Mode (i13/i14) and Evil Mean Ganker PvPers Mode(i12).
Additionally, keep all current zones with the i13/14 setting but create 2 new zones.
[/ QUOTE ] Ironically that's a very good solution and would satisfy all sides and shut everyone up. Similar to how you can have multiple zones when a server is crowded make different zones a
i12 style zone and a I13/14 zone and arena settings problem and crying solved. Hint: Hint: Castle Hint:
If that's possible game wise maybe we can see something like this in the future.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still say i would settle for an I12 button for arena at this point
[ QUOTE ]
I just wonder if everyone who prefers i12 style pvp over this new pvp, if we all made a petition would castle change it back?. With hard numbers of player base disapproving of the new pvp?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't achieve anything, pvp'ers would need at least 150x the population to get him to even consider their opinion on the same level as his. And the vast majority would need to speak up then.
[ QUOTE ]
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose.
[/ QUOTE ]
On purpose? no. I believe his ego is so powerful that even when completely wrong it protects him and recreates the history of events (or memories). In this case I believe that he believes i13 pvp is a success and was and is a good idea.
Ok, the fact that Southpark (if you haven't watched the Kanye West episode it is pretty interesting) fits perfectly aside:
Him being reasonable or stubborn has nothing to do with it. For them to admit what a massive mistake it was would be a huge black mark and could become a PR nightmare down the road (if not at the time). It would allow anyone questioning the devs to cite "i13 pvp" as precedent of them having no clue. And they would be right.
On top of that a lot of resources went into the rebuild. Yes any intelligent management team would take steps to ensure it was a good idea, but for w/e reason they took it upon themselves and went full speed ahead with a "we know best" attitude. The results speak for themselves. Hopefully in the future they will be more careful when handing out opportunities to people. Hopefully they will at least use a pvp consultant (doesn't have to be from cox) in the future (if another similar scenario ever arises in any of their careers) rather than putting game mechanic design decisions in the hands of a pve player lol and a pve dev(s). It has been a great example of why a race car driver doesn't automaticallyequate to being a great pilot. Pve =! pvp, so in them assuming pve experts knew what was needed was either ego, shortsightedness, or just plain stupidity acting.
Based on what I've seen of the pve'er(s) and the dev(s) involved in the process I'm confident in stating it was ego at work, which led to stupidity governing decisions and resulted in a package that can never be integrated with pve at all in the future (ie pvp MA missions, omg what a crazy idea!!!), so in other words shortsightedness.
Pulling the plug at this point likely isn't even a distant option. A smart management team would work as hard as possible within the budget and without compromising higher ranking projects to band-aid w/e they can. Which is exactly what they are doing, albiet at the speed of a tortoise.
[ QUOTE ]
When i13 was in closed beta, we pointed out what wasnt really good about it and he just seemed to ignore us. Then that whole debacle with the "things you like positive about i13 pvp" (which was like 3 pages long) And "The things you don't like about i13 pvp" (which was like 100 or so pages long)
[/ QUOTE ]
There is practically no point doing anything other than pointing out bugs to them. Every idea they add it strongly supported by a large dose of "we know best". Of course that is one of the most prominent signs of mismanagement, but what are you going to do?
Those threads were put up for nothing more than a place to vent; let out your anger and get over it rather than internalizing it and probably quitting, and a place to pat them on the back. *If they read either of them it would be the one grovelling at their feet and if by some chance they read through the complaints one it all fell on ears already ringing with "we know best".
The sad thing is that as Arcanaville pointed out to me in a different thread it wasn't just Castle at work. I'm not sure if she said it to reassure me or not, but all it did was make me really sad because instead of one person with no clue, you are dealing with a pile of them. Or they are all just "yes men". Both are depressing.
So imagine first how hard it is to change someone's mind who's ego is so powerful it will completely alter his perceived reality to support his decisions. Pretty hard right?
Now add to that a group of coworkers that are either doing the same thing, or are just patting him on the back saying he is king of the world. Did it get easier or harder to change their mind?
Now add a gaggle of sycophantic pve'ers acting like he/they walk on water and crap out cinnamon fresh rolls saying the pvp changes are great and they will definitely pvp now (though they never did). At this point, inappropriate terrorism jokes aside, you are likely going to need a bomb to affect any change.
An "old rules" arena option is the best to hope for, but even that is unlikely as even that is an admission of error. Right now you can shut of DR for example, but that falls under things like "tactical start" in terms of user options. Allowing a full reversal to i12 probably isn't going to happen.
edit:
tl:dr version:
-everything the devs add is backed by a strong sense of "we know best"
-knowing pve =! knowing pvp and they were idiots to assume it did.
-it's hard to change minds when they don't listen
-hope for an "i12" arena option, but I doubt it will happen.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just wonder if everyone who prefers i12 style pvp over this new pvp, if we all made a petition would castle change it back?. With hard numbers of player base disapproving of the new pvp?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't achieve anything, pvp'ers would need at least 150x the population to get him to even consider their opinion on the same level as his. And the vast majority would need to speak up then.
[ QUOTE ]
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose.
[/ QUOTE ]
On purpose? no. I believe his ego is so powerful that even when completely wrong it protects him and recreates the history of events (or memories). In this case I believe that he believes i13 pvp is a success and was and is a good idea.
Ok, the fact that Southpark (if you haven't watched the Kanye West episode it is pretty interesting) fits perfectly aside:
Him being reasonable or stubborn has nothing to do with it. For them to admit what a massive mistake it was would be a huge black mark and could become a PR nightmare down the road (if not at the time). It would allow anyone questioning the devs to cite "i13 pvp" as precedent of them having no clue. And they would be right.
On top of that a lot of resources went into the rebuild. Yes any intelligent management team would take steps to ensure it was a good idea, but for w/e reason they took it upon themselves and went full speed ahead with a "we know best" attitude. The results speak for themselves. Hopefully in the future they will be more careful when handing out opportunities to people. Hopefully they will at least use a pvp consultant (doesn't have to be from cox) in the future (if another similar scenario ever arises in any of their careers) rather than putting game mechanic design decisions in the hands of a pve player lol and a pve dev(s). It has been a great example of why a race car driver doesn't automaticallyequate to being a great pilot. Pve =! pvp, so in them assuming pve experts knew what was needed was either ego, shortsightedness, or just plain stupidity acting.
Based on what I've seen of the pve'er(s) and the dev(s) involved in the process I'm confident in stating it was ego at work, which led to stupidity governing decisions and resulted in a package that can never be integrated with pve at all in the future (ie pvp MA missions, omg what a crazy idea!!!), so in other words shortsightedness.
Pulling the plug at this point likely isn't even a distant option. A smart management team would work as hard as possible within the budget and without compromising higher ranking projects to band-aid w/e they can. Which is exactly what they are doing, albiet at the speed of a tortoise.
[ QUOTE ]
When i13 was in closed beta, we pointed out what wasnt really good about it and he just seemed to ignore us. Then that whole debacle with the "things you like positive about i13 pvp" (which was like 3 pages long) And "The things you don't like about i13 pvp" (which was like 100 or so pages long)
[/ QUOTE ]
There is practically no point doing anything other than pointing out bugs to them. Every idea they add it strongly supported by a large dose of "we know best". Of course that is one of the most prominent signs of mismanagement, but what are you going to do?
Those threads were put up for nothing more than a place to vent; let out your anger and get over it rather than internalizing it and probably quitting, and a place to pat them on the back. *If they read either of them it would be the one grovelling at their feet and if by some chance they read through the complaints one it all fell on ears already ringing with "we know best".
The sad thing is that as Arcanaville pointed out to me in a different thread it wasn't just Castle at work. I'm not sure if she said it to reassure me or not, but all it did was make me really sad because instead of one person with no clue, you are dealing with a pile of them. Or they are all just "yes men". Both are depressing.
So imagine first how hard it is to change someone's mind who's ego is so powerful it will completely alter his perceived reality to support his decisions. Pretty hard right?
Now add to that a group of coworkers that are either doing the same thing, or are just patting him on the back saying he is king of the world. Did it get easier or harder to change their mind?
Now add a gaggle of sycophantic pve'ers acting like he/they walk on water and crap out cinnamon fresh rolls saying the pvp changes are great and they will definitely pvp now (though they never did). At this point, inappropriate terrorism jokes aside, you are likely going to need a bomb to affect any change.
An "old rules" arena option is the best to hope for, but even that is unlikely as even that is an admission of error. Right now you can shut of DR for example, but that falls under things like "tactical start" in terms of user options. Allowing a full reversal to i12 probably isn't going to happen.
edit:
tl:dr version:
-everything the devs add is backed by a strong sense of "we know best"
-knowing pve =! knowing pvp and they were idiots to assume it did.
-it's hard to change minds when they don't listen
-hope for an "i12" arena option, but I doubt it will happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
this whole reply is full of SOOO much win, i don't know where to start. you hit every single nail on the head and hammered them down so far, my head is still spinning! GREAT show!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just wonder if everyone who prefers i12 style pvp over this new pvp, if we all made a petition would castle change it back?. With hard numbers of player base disapproving of the new pvp?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't achieve anything, pvp'ers would need at least 150x the population to get him to even consider their opinion on the same level as his. And the vast majority would need to speak up then.
[ QUOTE ]
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose.
[/ QUOTE ]
On purpose? no. I believe his ego is so powerful that even when completely wrong it protects him and recreates the history of events (or memories). In this case I believe that he believes i13 pvp is a success and was and is a good idea.
Ok, the fact that Southpark (if you haven't watched the Kanye West episode it is pretty interesting) fits perfectly aside:
Him being reasonable or stubborn has nothing to do with it. For them to admit what a massive mistake it was would be a huge black mark and could become a PR nightmare down the road (if not at the time). It would allow anyone questioning the devs to cite "i13 pvp" as precedent of them having no clue. And they would be right.
On top of that a lot of resources went into the rebuild. Yes any intelligent management team would take steps to ensure it was a good idea, but for w/e reason they took it upon themselves and went full speed ahead with a "we know best" attitude. The results speak for themselves. Hopefully in the future they will be more careful when handing out opportunities to people. Hopefully they will at least use a pvp consultant (doesn't have to be from cox) in the future (if another similar scenario ever arises in any of their careers) rather than putting game mechanic design decisions in the hands of a pve player lol and a pve dev(s). It has been a great example of why a race car driver doesn't automaticallyequate to being a great pilot. Pve =! pvp, so in them assuming pve experts knew what was needed was either ego, shortsightedness, or just plain stupidity acting.
Based on what I've seen of the pve'er(s) and the dev(s) involved in the process I'm confident in stating it was ego at work, which led to stupidity governing decisions and resulted in a package that can never be integrated with pve at all in the future (ie pvp MA missions, omg what a crazy idea!!!), so in other words shortsightedness.
Pulling the plug at this point likely isn't even a distant option. A smart management team would work as hard as possible within the budget and without compromising higher ranking projects to band-aid w/e they can. Which is exactly what they are doing, albiet at the speed of a tortoise.
[ QUOTE ]
When i13 was in closed beta, we pointed out what wasnt really good about it and he just seemed to ignore us. Then that whole debacle with the "things you like positive about i13 pvp" (which was like 3 pages long) And "The things you don't like about i13 pvp" (which was like 100 or so pages long)
[/ QUOTE ]
There is practically no point doing anything other than pointing out bugs to them. Every idea they add it strongly supported by a large dose of "we know best". Of course that is one of the most prominent signs of mismanagement, but what are you going to do?
Those threads were put up for nothing more than a place to vent; let out your anger and get over it rather than internalizing it and probably quitting, and a place to pat them on the back. *If they read either of them it would be the one grovelling at their feet and if by some chance they read through the complaints one it all fell on ears already ringing with "we know best".
The sad thing is that as Arcanaville pointed out to me in a different thread it wasn't just Castle at work. I'm not sure if she said it to reassure me or not, but all it did was make me really sad because instead of one person with no clue, you are dealing with a pile of them. Or they are all just "yes men". Both are depressing.
So imagine first how hard it is to change someone's mind who's ego is so powerful it will completely alter his perceived reality to support his decisions. Pretty hard right?
Now add to that a group of coworkers that are either doing the same thing, or are just patting him on the back saying he is king of the world. Did it get easier or harder to change their mind?
Now add a gaggle of sycophantic pve'ers acting like he/they walk on water and crap out cinnamon fresh rolls saying the pvp changes are great and they will definitely pvp now (though they never did). At this point, inappropriate terrorism jokes aside, you are likely going to need a bomb to affect any change.
An "old rules" arena option is the best to hope for, but even that is unlikely as even that is an admission of error. Right now you can shut of DR for example, but that falls under things like "tactical start" in terms of user options. Allowing a full reversal to i12 probably isn't going to happen.
edit:
tl:dr version:
-everything the devs add is backed by a strong sense of "we know best"
-knowing pve =! knowing pvp and they were idiots to assume it did.
-it's hard to change minds when they don't listen
-hope for an "i12" arena option, but I doubt it will happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
this whole reply is full of SOOO much win, i don't know where to start. you hit every single nail on the head and hammered them down so far, my head is still spinning! GREAT show!
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
Though he did indeed hit every nail, he did it with the hammer that even he knows is bound to insure every one of those nails missed their mark by a county, if not a country or two.
Here's why: He claims Castle, surrounded by a buncha synchophants, are so full of themselves and their appointed *king of what's best for us all* are quite set in their opinion that *they know best*.
Such egomaniacs are not likely to respond well to criticism, no? We've even seen evidence to support your claim, ala the closed beta and numerous threads in this forum on how to improve pvp; all of which were completely ignored. And by completely, I don't mean a few or most. I mean I challenge you to find a single aspect of pvp i13 that could be even remotely twisted to fit into any suggestion from people that know/knew wtf they were talking about when it comes to pre-i13 pvp.
The whole contention of his post was that they just will not listen. They know better. They are so full of themselves, so sure they are right, that they will never listen to consenting ideas.
Do you think that calling them names, being purely negative, calling their ego into question and simply saying all hope is lost is the way forward? Enough to quote and attach your name to someone that does nothing but be negative?
Do you think the egomaniacs you would make them out to be would or can hear you? You do realize you're paying to play *their* game, yes?
They make the decisions. You pay them for those decisions.
I respected the PvP'ers who left so much more when they stayed gone. Several of them I've seen back in game, [censored] up a storm. Important to note: many of them have taken to the new rules and continue to pwn, despite the [censored].
Was i13 a bad effing idea? Oh yeah. Lotsa wasted dev resources when they were hurting for that. 8 months to chase the part of your audience away you were trying to *improve* upon? Ouch.
Lighthouse's now infamous comment and departure aside, I think they know how majestically they [censored] up.
Or perhaps not. But if they haven't caught the clues from their pvp-playerbase who have left, en masse. Or one of their own who called it like it was and ultimately quit over it, do you really think that calling them names, however eloquently, is going to solve anything?
Do I have an approach that will get through to them? Obviously not.
But do I know that the approach you're quoting will not work?
Yes.
Yes I do.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
[ QUOTE ]
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like you're new. The devs are 100% convinced that what they're doing is good for the game. That's the problem. You can't prove to an idiot that he's an idiot.
So no, it will never go back to what it used to be, not even if the entire playerbase stops PvP'ing.
The thread has been done.... We all know the Devs don't care... why waste time when you could be doing something productive in this game like rolling a pettless MM with Flury and Air superiority for Awsome Zone Fightklub style PVP.
[ QUOTE ]
Do I have an approach that will get through to them? Obviously not.
But do I know that the approach you're quoting will not work?
Yes.
Yes I do.
[/ QUOTE ]
My post wasn't intended to be constructive or to inspire people to hope for things that will never be achieved. It was a post meant to actually disaude people from pouring their hearts into something only for it to fall on deaf ears.
The pvp community used to have people that pretty much did nothing but try to seek improvement through "sanctioned" means - compiling well thought out improvements and actually speaking directly to the pvp community reps.
In the end I felt really bad for those people and the steamy pile the devs plopped upon their chests. It's one thing to not take good advice, or use good ideas, but it is another thing to pretend to listen and even SAY you are going to use the ideas and then produce a body of work that is anything but what was being said.
My post is in no way meant to "encourage" people to try it all again. The opposite is true. I have a habit of discouraging people from laying down in the middle of the highway too. But if you are really set on doing it then much like the devs redesigning pvp you don't have to listen to anything you don't want if "you know best".
I'm sure if the pvp community could go back in time and do it all over again many would agree to sit quiet and not squeek the wheel, because when Castle showed up with the grease it turned out to be like one of those repair shops that you take your car in for an oil change and they scam you in to getting $5k bill. Pvp needed some grease and he rebuilt the engine. Unfortunately he was an incompetent mechanic and our car just got passed by a Lada 
.
Well said.
I'll just jump in without arguing....
*/signed*
"People are like stained-glass windows.
They sparkle and shine when the sun is out,
but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is
light from within"
Nope, I enjoy the new PvP more than the previous version.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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Nope, I enjoy the new PvP more than the previous version.
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I'm honestly interested, what do you enjoy more?
Please compare and contrast the "old" system vs the "new" system. Be sure to show your work for full marks 
Personally, everything I find improved could have been added to the old system like pvp rewards, the -range on taunt (as long as it rolls a tohit), and...well that's all I've got at this time, but I do know there are a few more details I personally like that were implemented.
I like the new PvP *ducks*. Fights are lasting longer, I had to change some builds around, but hey, gave me something new to do/think about.
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Please compare and contrast the "old" system vs the "new" system.
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hehe good one. Implying that he could actually do that. You should be a comedian 
I just wonder if everyone who prefers i12 style pvp over this new pvp, if we all made a petition would castle change it back?. With hard numbers of player base disapproving of the new pvp?
Castle has to be a reasonable man, i just refuse to believe he's this stubborn on purpose. When i13 was in closed beta, we pointed out what wasnt really good about it and he just seemed to ignore us. Then that whole debacle with the "things you like positive about i13 pvp" (which was like 3 pages long) And "The things you don't like about i13 pvp" (which was like 100 or so pages long)
It was an incredible disparity, sometimes you just have to man up and go back to the drawing board. I13 clearly needed to be reworked, re thunk, redid, reconditioned and any other re's i missed just take it away. I did well in i12 pvp, i did well in i13 pvp, i guess what? still do well in i14 pvp. And to be honest i can use toons in i13-14 pvp that i didn't really excel with in i12 or before i12.
Yet i12 was way more fun, more competitive, less button mashers, all it needed was a tweak here or there. A buff to a set here, a added power there and it would be cool. But i put this out there and hopefully the devs will look at it.
I12 pvp in it's old form, add the new patrons/epics, buff weaker sets like dark melee, electric blast. Add the taunt -range deal, i can even take DR on outside buffs heals. That would be cool DR on OUTSIDE BUFFS or HEALS, Id even suggest a feature that makes buffs weaker the further you are from the caster that would cut back on base bot using super toons.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com