I have an idea how players can get Incarnates.
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-04-19 15:56 in Suggestions and Ideas
I don't get this everyone is attacking me. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough.
Freedom
Hermee lvl 50 claws / sr scrapper
Renevega lvl 50 fire / kin controller
Aveneger lvl 50 ele / ice blaster
Pretty Healer lvl 50 emp / rad defender
Blazin' Man lvl 50 fire / fire tank
Peace n' War lvl 50 warshade
Spectral Fusion. lvl 50 ill / kin
Hermee Jr. lvl 50 dual blades / WP
People aren't attacking you. They are finding very real problems with your idea. It is completely different.
You posted a suggestion. People will naturally look at that idea, and come up with ways in which it might not work. Don't take that are a personal attack, because it's not.
However, there are definitely things that you can do to help yourself out. Think through your idea. Come up with possible criticisms before you post, and try to address them. Use a spell checker and make sure that you're using proper grammar so that people can understand you. Things like this can help a lot in getting your idea across.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
IMO Incarnates not as a "new" AT but as an addon to lvl 50 toons. I understand the Devs said "no new ATs unlocked" but this bypasses that.
Most of us have played D&D and have had dual class characters. Offer Incarnates as a dual class to addon after the toon hits 50. Whether they base powers off AT or Origin is up to the Devs. Origin based would require them to make a way for us to change our origin.
If Incarnates were added as a dual class their lvls could be added on slowly. I could have a toon thats a (50)Brute/(10)Incarnate. Thus not breaking the lvl 50 cap rule. Maybe every other issue add 10 more Incarnate lvls. Make it so when you can add power slots for your Incarnate half it can't be spent on your base AT.
Right there is your end game content with more room for 50s to grow. Balance can be worked out in the detail as most issues released all have stuff to balance.
[ QUOTE ]
If Incarnates were added as a dual class their lvls could be added on slowly. I could have a toon thats a (50)Brute/(10)Incarnate. Thus not breaking the lvl 50 cap rule. Maybe every other issue add 10 more Incarnate lvls. Make it so when you can add power slots for your Incarnate half it can't be spent on your base AT.
Right there is your end game content with more room for 50s to grow. Balance can be worked out in the detail as most issues released all have stuff to balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
So then you come in with the same problem with AT ballance that you have before.
ANY incarnate would be inherently more powerful than ANY non-incarnate.
It's a no-go.
What *I* would like to see for the 'beyond 50 content' is the Crossover.
If you hit 50 you will be given the option to 'go over to the Dark Side' or 'Come to the Light'..
Start over with your AT at level 1.. in the other Faction. and no longer being 50 in the 'original' faction (unless you got to 50 AGAIN in the NEW faction and did it AGAIN!)
No Influence, No Enhancements..
New character with an 'unusual' AT for the side you're now on.
Bringing Badges perhaps.. but for the most part.. Brand new character level power.
It would take MINOR tweaking mixing ALL the AT's instead of the ones on each side as they are currently, but it doesn't increase the POWER of any AT. Just the 'coolness' for those who choose to do this.
Whether it's INCARNATES or not.. meh... But it WOULD be something that we could do with our favorite characters that is more than we can do now with them.
-Dragons
"I burn my candle at both ends, it will not last the night. But Ahhh my friends and Ohh my foes it makes a lovely light!"
I must be missing something.
What was the "player question" here?
Well, the OP did ask:
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What you guys think.
[/ QUOTE ]
So that's kinda like a question, probably should be a Suggestion instead.
I think Incarnate should be an Origin. What are the mechanical differences between the Origins? Almost nothing.
Issue 23: All your base are belong to us?
[ QUOTE ]
Well, the OP did ask:
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What you guys think.
[/ QUOTE ]
So that's kinda like a question, probably should be a Suggestion instead.
I think Incarnate should be an Origin. What are the mechanical differences between the Origins? Almost nothing.
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Plus, as far as the game lore is concerned, Incarnate IS an origin. It's not an archetype, it's what caused you to gain your powers.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Maybe that's what i am thinking about incarnets not to make them stronger but the ablity to grow my toon beyond 50. i love play her but i feel like she has hit a ceiling as far as growth. i like Gypsy_of_Paradox idea maybe an add-on, not to make them stronger than another AT. I also like your idea Dragons.
Freedom
Hermee lvl 50 claws / sr scrapper
Renevega lvl 50 fire / kin controller
Aveneger lvl 50 ele / ice blaster
Pretty Healer lvl 50 emp / rad defender
Blazin' Man lvl 50 fire / fire tank
Peace n' War lvl 50 warshade
Spectral Fusion. lvl 50 ill / kin
Hermee Jr. lvl 50 dual blades / WP
[ QUOTE ]
So then you come in with the same problem with AT ballance that you have before.
ANY incarnate would be inherently more powerful than ANY non-incarnate.
It's a no-go.
[/ QUOTE ]
Name one person who has a 50 that would not expand beyond in power if they could. Do you understand Dual Classing?
Your arguement is as silly as a lvl 40 running into RV and getting ganked by lvl 50's. Of course its more powerful the 50s put ten more lvls of work into their toons.
[ QUOTE ]
What *I* would like to see for the 'beyond 50 content' is the Crossover.
If you hit 50 you will be given the option to 'go over to the Dark Side' or 'Come to the Light'..
[/ QUOTE ]
Let each faction keep thier ATs, with proliferation spreading out the powers. The only thing that keeps the game unique is the difference in the ATs on each side.
[ QUOTE ]
But it WOULD be something that we could do with our favorite characters that is more than we can do now with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dual Classing all our favorite toons to gain more abilities is something more than we can do now.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that's what i am thinking about incarnets not to make them stronger but the ablity to grow my toon beyond 50. i love play her but i feel like she has hit a ceiling as far as growth. i like Gypsy_of_Paradox idea maybe an add-on, not to make them stronger than another AT. I also like your idea Dragons.
[/ QUOTE ]
How could they use your idea of "better than 50" and still "not..make them stronger than another AT?" The only way to do this would be if they lost something for what they gained.
So what does the Incarnate lose for the extra powers they gain access to?
The Devs have something in the pipe to advance your characters beyond 50. Castle hinted at it in the same post that shot down raising the level cap, once and for all (alright, his post won't stop nimrods from making new "raise the level cap" threads, but it does give us the definitive answer to point to).
I seriously doubt that the form this advancement takes will be "Incarnates," as the idea of becoming an incarnate does not fit in with the origins of many players' characters.
What I would like to see done with Incarnates is to have a series of Power Pools only available to Incarnates. They would follow all the same rules as other Power Pools (four powers, first and second power become available at 6th level, 3rd power at 14, and fourth power at 20, they count against the four pool limit), or if they wanted a wider variety of powers, they could increase the level ranges (first at 6, second at 14, third at 22, fourth at 32). When you select your first Incarnate power, you would be locked into that set, and would not be able to choose from another without a respec (losing the original).
It would be best if the ability to create an Incarnate was unlocked via an Accolade, rather than level advancement.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that's what i am thinking about incarnets not to make them stronger but the ablity to grow my toon beyond 50. i love play her but i feel like she has hit a ceiling as far as growth. i like Gypsy_of_Paradox idea maybe an add-on, not to make them stronger than another AT. I also like your idea Dragons.
[/ QUOTE ]
How could they use your idea of "better than 50" and still "not..make them stronger than another AT?" The only way to do this would be if they lost something for what they gained.
So what does the Incarnate lose for the extra powers they gain access to?
The Devs have something in the pipe to advance your characters beyond 50. Castle hinted at it in the same post that shot down raising the level cap, once and for all (alright, his post won't stop nimrods from making new "raise the level cap" threads, but it does give us the definitive answer to point to).
I seriously doubt that the form this advancement takes will be "Incarnates," as the idea of becoming an incarnate does not fit in with the origins of many players' characters.
What I would like to see done with Incarnates is to have a series of Power Pools only available to Incarnates. They would follow all the same rules as other Power Pools (four powers, first and second power become available at 6th level, 3rd power at 14, and fourth power at 20, they count against the four pool limit), or if they wanted a wider variety of powers, they could increase the level ranges (first at 6, second at 14, third at 22, fourth at 32). When you select your first Incarnate power, you would be locked into that set, and would not be able to choose from another without a respec (losing the original).
It would be best if the ability to create an Incarnate was unlocked via an Accolade, rather than level advancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlocking Incarnate powers through an accolade is a great way to go really. Personally I don't want the cap raise beyond 50, that would break so many things. Enhancements beyond 53 would just be plainly insane. The purple recipes would become useless and several other reasons.
My Idea for a dual class if they were to introduce 10 lvls first would make your toon a static 60. My example used a lvl 50 Brute, he would always remain a lvl 50 Brute. The lvls gained as Incarnate would cap at 10 at first. Being static lvls, you would still slot lvl 50 enhancements. Which would not break the system, but give players a way to grow their 50s.
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Maybe that's what i am thinking about incarnets not to make them stronger but the ablity to grow my toon beyond 50. i love play her but i feel like she has hit a ceiling as far as growth. i like Gypsy_of_Paradox idea maybe an add-on, not to make them stronger than another AT. I also like your idea Dragons.
[/ QUOTE ]
How could they use your idea of "better than 50" and still "not..make them stronger than another AT?" The only way to do this would be if they lost something for what they gained.
So what does the Incarnate lose for the extra powers they gain access to?
The Devs have something in the pipe to advance your characters beyond 50. Castle hinted at it in the same post that shot down raising the level cap, once and for all (alright, his post won't stop nimrods from making new "raise the level cap" threads, but it does give us the definitive answer to point to).
I seriously doubt that the form this advancement takes will be "Incarnates," as the idea of becoming an incarnate does not fit in with the origins of many players' characters.
What I would like to see done with Incarnates is to have a series of Power Pools only available to Incarnates. They would follow all the same rules as other Power Pools (four powers, first and second power become available at 6th level, 3rd power at 14, and fourth power at 20, they count against the four pool limit), or if they wanted a wider variety of powers, they could increase the level ranges (first at 6, second at 14, third at 22, fourth at 32). When you select your first Incarnate power, you would be locked into that set, and would not be able to choose from another without a respec (losing the original).
It would be best if the ability to create an Incarnate was unlocked via an Accolade, rather than level advancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlocking Incarnate powers through an accolade is a great way to go really. Personally I don't want the cap raise beyond 50, that would break so many things. Enhancements beyond 53 would just be plainly insane. The purple recipes would become useless and several other reasons.
My Idea for a dual class if they were to introduce 10 lvls first would make your toon a static 60. My example used a lvl 50 Brute, he would always remain a lvl 50 Brute. The lvls gained as Incarnate would cap at 10 at first. Being static lvls, you would still slot lvl 50 enhancements. Which would not break the system, but give players a way to grow their 50s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that your suggestion gives the character an extra three or four powers over those ten virtual levels, which is another balancing factor.
While I'm keen on the idea of an Incarnate having access to powers that they might not have otherwise, at the end of the day, they should have roughly the same number of powers and slots at 50 as every other 50. What should distinguish them is their connection to the Well of the Furies, and through it, their connection to the gods. I can see 50 levels of stories, both heroside and villainside, about being touched by the gods, and the trials that come with the favor of the gods.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
[ QUOTE ]
Your arguement is as silly as a lvl 40 running into RV and getting ganked by lvl 50's. Of course its more powerful the 50s put ten more lvls of work into their toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
But it's not just a question of PvP, or being ganked - If incarnates are that much more powerful, how can you balance the core of the game (PvE)? Yes, there are certain powerset combinations that do outperform others, but the devs have tried to keep them within or as close to the bell-curve as possible.
The 40 can at least SK up with the 50, and be fairly decent. But if incarnates are the new standard, I don't see how this relationship could work with the proposed "uberness" of the suggested incarnate... Unless the only thing that defines the incarnate is levels beyond 50; in which case this becomes a suggestion to raise the level cap. An entirely different beast with issues of it's own.
Personally, I'd just love for the incarnate to be an addition to your origin with the fringe benifit of raising ONE attribute - at a heafty cost to other attributes. Raise your resistance to fire damage moderately (20%?) lower all other resistances by a medium amount (10%?). Raising, say, your resistance to exotic damage types might either lower the returns, or increase the penalties to other resistances.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
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Maybe that's what i am thinking about incarnets not to make them stronger but the ablity to grow my toon beyond 50. i love play her but i feel like she has hit a ceiling as far as growth. i like Gypsy_of_Paradox idea maybe an add-on, not to make them stronger than another AT. I also like your idea Dragons.
[/ QUOTE ]
How could they use your idea of "better than 50" and still "not..make them stronger than another AT?" The only way to do this would be if they lost something for what they gained.
So what does the Incarnate lose for the extra powers they gain access to?
The Devs have something in the pipe to advance your characters beyond 50. Castle hinted at it in the same post that shot down raising the level cap, once and for all (alright, his post won't stop nimrods from making new "raise the level cap" threads, but it does give us the definitive answer to point to).
I seriously doubt that the form this advancement takes will be "Incarnates," as the idea of becoming an incarnate does not fit in with the origins of many players' characters.
What I would like to see done with Incarnates is to have a series of Power Pools only available to Incarnates. They would follow all the same rules as other Power Pools (four powers, first and second power become available at 6th level, 3rd power at 14, and fourth power at 20, they count against the four pool limit), or if they wanted a wider variety of powers, they could increase the level ranges (first at 6, second at 14, third at 22, fourth at 32). When you select your first Incarnate power, you would be locked into that set, and would not be able to choose from another without a respec (losing the original).
It would be best if the ability to create an Incarnate was unlocked via an Accolade, rather than level advancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unlocking Incarnate powers through an accolade is a great way to go really. Personally I don't want the cap raise beyond 50, that would break so many things. Enhancements beyond 53 would just be plainly insane. The purple recipes would become useless and several other reasons.
My Idea for a dual class if they were to introduce 10 lvls first would make your toon a static 60. My example used a lvl 50 Brute, he would always remain a lvl 50 Brute. The lvls gained as Incarnate would cap at 10 at first. Being static lvls, you would still slot lvl 50 enhancements. Which would not break the system, but give players a way to grow their 50s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that your suggestion gives the character an extra three or four powers over those ten virtual levels, which is another balancing factor.
While I'm keen on the idea of an Incarnate having access to powers that they might not have otherwise, at the end of the day, they should have roughly the same number of powers and slots at 50 as every other 50. What should distinguish them is their connection to the Well of the Furies, and through it, their connection to the gods. I can see 50 levels of stories, both heroside and villainside, about being touched by the gods, and the trials that come with the favor of the gods.
[/ QUOTE ]
you need something worth while to let the players want to do it. i think 3 or 4 extra powers wouldn't disrupt the balance that most players want. if you when you start lvling your incarnet side it can only be used for incarnet power and slots only can be used for the power you get. on the hero side you chould have like Zues's Lighting Bolt but no added defences or res dmg buffs. i think more offencive powers for it would be great. and special IO's or you can Trianing for the power's to make sure balance can achieved.
Freedom
Hermee lvl 50 claws / sr scrapper
Renevega lvl 50 fire / kin controller
Aveneger lvl 50 ele / ice blaster
Pretty Healer lvl 50 emp / rad defender
Blazin' Man lvl 50 fire / fire tank
Peace n' War lvl 50 warshade
Spectral Fusion. lvl 50 ill / kin
Hermee Jr. lvl 50 dual blades / WP
speak for yourself about wanting more powers. how can you not understand how much inbalance this would cause? if you use io sets, it actually makes you more powerful. *gasp*. adding more powers and trying to state that special io's or trianing wont cause a balance issue is like saying that using paper armor will stop a bullet.
[ QUOTE ]
Except that your suggestion gives the character an extra three or four powers over those ten virtual levels, which is another balancing factor.
While I'm keen on the idea of an Incarnate having access to powers that they might not have otherwise, at the end of the day, they should have roughly the same number of powers and slots at 50 as every other 50. What should distinguish them is their connection to the Well of the Furies, and through it, their connection to the gods. I can see 50 levels of stories, both heroside and villainside, about being touched by the gods, and the trials that come with the favor of the gods.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everything is a balancing factor when first introduced into the game. Nothing is perfect, even powers that have been around for years still get retouched. Look at Invuns history in the game, its a good example of a power rebalanced over the years.
Invention bonuses are an example pushing your characters beyond the limit. Some people don't do the system which is fine. But clearly, fully IOd characters out perform non-IOd characters on every level. How is this not different from a person who puts the work into Incarnate levels. Factoring an RP reason into to why *every* toon has been touched by the Gods is silly and assumes everyone RPs. I don't RP as I'm sure the majority of the pbase doesn't so it won't hurt storylines one bit overall IMO.
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Your arguement is as silly as a lvl 40 running into RV and getting ganked by lvl 50's. Of course its more powerful the 50s put ten more lvls of work into their toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
But it's not just a question of PvP, or being ganked - If incarnates are that much more powerful, how can you balance the core of the game (PvE)? Yes, there are certain powerset combinations that do outperform others, but the devs have tried to keep them within or as close to the bell-curve as possible.
The 40 can at least SK up with the 50, and be fairly decent. But if incarnates are the new standard, I don't see how this relationship could work with the proposed "uberness" of the suggested incarnate... Unless the only thing that defines the incarnate is levels beyond 50; in which case this becomes a suggestion to raise the level cap. An entirely different beast with issues of it's own.
Personally, I'd just love for the incarnate to be an addition to your origin with the fringe benifit of raising ONE attribute - at a heafty cost to other attributes. Raise your resistance to fire damage moderately (20%?) lower all other resistances by a medium amount (10%?). Raising, say, your resistance to exotic damage types might either lower the returns, or increase the penalties to other resistances.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or even to quell arguments in general, have Incarnate powers unlocked by an accolade. It gives access to a group of 10 powers, all passives, all of which cannot be slotted. Players can only choose 4 of the 10 passives to apply to their toon.
Maybe even with each issue add more passives and allow players to choose more. Push it even further and only allow 50% of the passive affect the toon in pvp.
[ QUOTE ]
speak for yourself about wanting more powers. how can you not understand how much inbalance this would cause? if you use io sets, it actually makes you more powerful. *gasp*. adding more powers and trying to state that special io's or trianing wont cause a balance issue is like saying that using paper armor will stop a bullet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Inbalance? Everythings inbalanced when first introduced as I stated earlier in another post. IF the Devs decide to have Incarnate powers as addons, it would be in a constant state of being balanced. Like merit rewards from flasbacks are always being rescaled.
Everything, every power and every enhancement IO is always being relooked at and changed. Recently recharge effects were removed from pets to attempt to fix AI issues and rescale damage output. Assualt Rifle had all of its activation times changed to improve performance, these are good examples as to "everythings being looked at". Assuming you've been here longer than your reg date, you should know nothing in the game is set in stone.
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speak for yourself about wanting more powers. how can you not understand how much inbalance this would cause? if you use io sets, it actually makes you more powerful. *gasp*. adding more powers and trying to state that special io's or trianing wont cause a balance issue is like saying that using paper armor will stop a bullet.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am trying to keep things in balance, The special Io's I was refering too would have NO BONUSES! I am open to suggestions, Instead attacking the imbalaced issue you chould help out suggesting something. The incarnet powers chould be like Temps powers like the vets rewards. But you chould get on them one char. per account. By your theory Temp powers cause imbalance.
Freedom
Hermee lvl 50 claws / sr scrapper
Renevega lvl 50 fire / kin controller
Aveneger lvl 50 ele / ice blaster
Pretty Healer lvl 50 emp / rad defender
Blazin' Man lvl 50 fire / fire tank
Peace n' War lvl 50 warshade
Spectral Fusion. lvl 50 ill / kin
Hermee Jr. lvl 50 dual blades / WP
give me one good reason, not because you want it or it would be cool, that this would be needed. our toons already out perform the game as is. and the whole reason that we can't get the signature powers is just that. they're signature powers for npc's.
and next time come up with an entire well thought out and written idea that we can have something to discuss rather then heres my idea now fill in the details.
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give me one good reason, not because you want it or it would be cool, that this would be needed.
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Give me one good reason, not because you want to or that it is cool, that you play City of Heroes.
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give me one good reason, not because you want it or it would be cool, that this would be needed. our toons already out perform the game as is. and the whole reason that we can't get the signature powers is just that. they're signature powers for npc's.
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So with this statement we can assume you don't use IOs? Since in fact you don't need IOs to play the game. The market was never needed, MA was never needed, these were added for want not need.
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and next time come up with an entire well thought out and written idea that we can have something to discuss rather then heres my idea now fill in the details.
[/ QUOTE ]
Define well thought out? 1-40 pages? All suggestions will be tested on the forums, as people add their opinions and thoughts. Last I checked that "is" as discussion, so ideas will change as people talk. Several people stated several problems they have with my original idea of Incarnates being a dual class type with static lvls. After reading the post I came up with another system. Picking a few passive powers from a list that cannot be slotted and would be perm on your character.
A Short list of Passive that could be offered:<ul type="square">[*]+Resist 10% s/l/tox/psi
[*]+Resist 10% fire/cold/neg/nrg
[*]+Rech +10%
[*]+Dam +10% damage
[*]+Def +5% to all
[*]+Special 10% chance for an extra mag of mez[/list]
After getting the "Incarnate" Accolade you can select two to apply to your character. Giving them a bonus but not insanely overpowering them.
Thats an evolved idea after "discussing" my first suggestion with people.
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like saying that using paper armor will stop a bullet.
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carefull with statments like that who knows Jamie and Adam might
find a way for that to happen 
, heck they did stop a bullet with pizza
boxes and carring cases. (mythbusters for those that don't know)
After all just this week they made a boat out of Ice and newspaper.
I'm against this idea on the sole basis that I believe the OP has recently stuck his own head in a large blender before posting on these forums.
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Why not because newbies can't get them and to that so what.
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More like you want to let your customers to be able to experence the
new content, and not be forced to do half a million other things just to
get to the "good" stuff. For some people its a fine way to do it but there
are other that would see it and turn away. As the dev want to make a
few buck off the game best to avoid the turning away
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I would like better end game content.
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Better is a VERY subjective word, what is better to you might be garbage
to others. I would like good end game content, and I feel we have it, as
there are MANY times I don't feel like 'just' playing some alt and will go
back to beat some SF, or go beat up some hero on my Villain main. Now
my main villain has been lv 50 for Months and is IO heavy but that don't
stop me from still having a blast with her for many hours a week still.
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and ways to improve my main
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Lots of ways for that already, have you looked at set IOs, or worse PvP
IOs or purples? Now those can improve your toon a TON sure it can take
hours of playing content (or farming) to afford some of them but is VERY
possible. Yeck my two mains both still have stuff they need, and I14 only
made that worse with adding so much stuff like MA badges and pvp recipes.
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because I find when I play all I get is influence.
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Realy you only get influence? For I get prestige to help my SG/VG, I also
get recipes to make my toon stronger (or help some future toon), I get
lots of badges that atleast some of which help my power, and I also get
that most important thing a fun time.
PS: I know my writing is bad and I'm likely that last one that should be
saying anything, but realy 'Y' is a bad replacement for why everywhere
but in texts. Heck I don't do the texting thing myself because of silly stuff
like that. Also fixed atleast one of the sentances to what I suspect you
were trying to say.