Time to put the Old Blue Caves to Rest
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2009-03-26 13:20 in Suggestions and Ideas
I love blue caves. They're a nice change of pace, and they look a lot cooler than the very drab brown CoV versions.
The layer cake room sucks, but that's just that tile.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
No, I don't.
The main issue I hear with the blue caves isn't restricted to them - it's the five level room. I have no issues with the color- in fact, it's nice to not have everything be a bland brown.
The main problem I have with the suggestion though? I don't think it'd be worth the time to try to change *every single mission* (including one-offs and newspaper missions) that use these caves. Yes, even with the devs having the MA-style interface to play with now.
I don't hate the caves as much as the multi level room in them. I hate them rooms with a passion!
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No, I don't.
The main issue I hear with the blue caves isn't restricted to them - it's the five level room. I have no issues with the color- in fact, it's nice to not have everything be a bland brown.
The main problem I have with the suggestion though? I don't think it'd be worth the time to try to change *every single mission* (including one-offs and newspaper missions) that use these caves. Yes, even with the devs having the MA-style interface to play with now.
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Man,..I completely forgot about that darn 5 level room! Anyone with TP can tell you how fun that is. And if you have limited travel powers, good luck.
I agree, I can live with the blueish color but I do think the dev that did initially design that cave is either moved on to a different company or got fired!...lol. I would say that going forward for I14, I will make it my greatest effort not to give anyone blue cave missions.
I find sprint works quite well for doing counterclockwise circles.
I... like the layer cake room. >_> And the rest of the blue cave network, really. It's like pretty much anywhere else, once you figure out where the ramps/paths are, you're set.
Apart from that, even if I disliked it I don't think anything should be done away with. For variety, for one thing.
You can get from the bottom to the top in that room with no travel power, no nothing. Just, you know, look for the incline. 
I do think it's a little silly to imply that whoever designed it may have gotten fired... so it's a slight challenge... better (to me anyway) than having to trek through 5 more connected rooms. Why? As I said, variety. ^_^
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I... like the layer cake room. >_> And the rest of the blue cave network, really. It's like pretty much anywhere else, once you figure out where the ramps/paths are, you're set.
Apart from that, even if I disliked it I don't think anything should be done away with. For variety, for one thing.
You can get from the bottom to the top in that room with no travel power, no nothing. Just, you know, look for the incline. I do think it's a little silly to imply that whoever designed it may have gotten fired... so it's a slight challenge... better (to me anyway) than having to trek through 5 more connected rooms. Why? As I said, variety. ^_^
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Not everyone has got to like liver and onions either.
No, I agree that there has to be variety in the game and I only made the suggestion on this as the majority, not minority I believe agrees on those blue caves.
I don't have a problem with having a nice challenge in missions. Going through the same buildings over and over with the same layouts can get monotonous at times. I can also understand that some people like the challenge even when they don't have full travel powers yet trying to get to the top in the five level cave. Just like trying to travel The Hollows in early levels without travel powers. That's part of the game. But I still do think it was a bad design. To say that it was silly to suggest that the person who designed those caves should have been fired, was said in jest and shouldn't be taken personally.
Ever since I've been playing this game 2004-2005 and starting up again now, I've never seen or heard anyone say "Yeah, a cave mish!!!" Yipppie!! and get all giddy and start jumping up and down with sheer delight. I personally can live with those caves. I just won't design any mish'es in them come I14 and I think a lot of people will be very happy.
F the Blue Caves. Who ever made them needs to be dealt with appropreately
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F the Blue Caves. Who ever made them needs to be dealt with appropreately
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Why?
I know that navigating an office building with no surprises in it can prove challenging, but it's GOOD to have some element of complexity like the Layer Cake room.
The only thing I'll say is to use it less, and possibly add it into some themeing. It would make an AWESOME map if the bottom layer or two were filled with lava.
My main (and only) real problem with the blue caves in particular is that, in some of the tunnels the rock formations look a bit... intimidating.
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My main (and only) real problem with the blue caves in particular is that, in some of the tunnels the rock formations look a bit... intimidating.
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*glances at location*
BROTHER!
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My main (and only) real problem with the blue caves in particular is that, in some of the tunnels the rock formations look a bit... intimidating.
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*glances at location*
BROTHER!
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Hey, I'm in Jersey too. 
You would've known that if not for TF souvenirs.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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I... like the layer cake room. >_> And the rest of the blue cave network, really. It's like pretty much anywhere else, once you figure out where the ramps/paths are, you're set.
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I agree. I HATE caves, but the magic salvage is nice. Actually, the caves I hate with a passion are the CoT caves. You know the ones that seem to get their image from "Indian Jones And The Temple Of Doom" ESPECIALLY when you're on a team and you've spawned 6 or 8 of those spectral spirits.
Yeah, where you're inside one of those mini temple rooms that has a red crystal, so you're taking little (But rapid damage) from the crystal(s) and getting all kinds of ToHit Debuffs from the spirits. 
JOYGASM!!!
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I... like the layer cake room. >_> And the rest of the blue cave network, really. It's like pretty much anywhere else, once you figure out where the ramps/paths are, you're set.
Apart from that, even if I disliked it I don't think anything should be done away with. For variety, for one thing.
You can get from the bottom to the top in that room with no travel power, no nothing. Just, you know, look for the incline. I do think it's a little silly to imply that whoever designed it may have gotten fired... so it's a slight challenge... better (to me anyway) than having to trek through 5 more connected rooms. Why? As I said, variety. ^_^
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You may have a point to keep the 5 layer room for variety, but lately it seems to be the norm, that is not variety at all. I hate the room more from the perspective that abuses players when the are doing a defeat the boss and guards, and it turns out to defeat the boss, his guards, the friends of the guards, the relative of the guards who all live in the same mega cave. That is make work, tedium. If you could defeat the boss and the immdiate spawn associated with the boss, and then mission ends, that would be fine and the nature of the room would not matter.
Hugs
Stormy
Ps: I like the blue rooms, its different, they could be a bit wider though.
You would think with so many heroes with utility belts someone would have a flashlight. That said I hate caves.
Hate caves, blue OR brown, where'ere they may be found.
Cimerora cave: if you just GOT to be in a cave, this is the one to be in. May have fun swimming pool at the end.
Arachnoid caves: these are visually interesting caves with room to move.... but on people who don't Hover, the incessant undulation of the floor honestly makes me a little motion-sick. I have to really slow down or I start getting this funny headache....
I'm just not a huge fan of anything that forces a team to fight all bunched up into one ball, unable to move or even see what's going on. The blue/brown cave is the worst example of this and I think CoX needs a few nice big quakes to settle this issue.
I remember once a few years back someone started a thread suggesting a SF to destroy all Oranbega caves in CoX: the sugestion was met with rave reviews. LOL.
Yep, any opponent who sets up a base in an area where the topology forces his enemies into a neatly constrained kill zone (if their approach is to charge en masse ino the chokepoint) is...well, just not friendly.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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I... like the layer cake room. >_> And the rest of the blue cave network, really. It's like pretty much anywhere else, once you figure out where the ramps/paths are, you're set.
Apart from that, even if I disliked it I don't think anything should be done away with. For variety, for one thing.
You can get from the bottom to the top in that room with no travel power, no nothing. Just, you know, look for the incline. I do think it's a little silly to imply that whoever designed it may have gotten fired... so it's a slight challenge... better (to me anyway) than having to trek through 5 more connected rooms. Why? As I said, variety. ^_^
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You may have a point to keep the 5 layer room for variety, but lately it seems to be the norm, that is not variety at all. I hate the room more from the perspective that abuses players when the are doing a defeat the boss and guards, and it turns out to defeat the boss, his guards, the friends of the guards, the relative of the guards who all live in the same mega cave. That is make work, tedium. If you could defeat the boss and the immdiate spawn associated with the boss, and then mission ends, that would be fine and the nature of the room would not matter.
Hugs
Stormy
Ps: I like the blue rooms, its different, they could be a bit wider though.
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I totally agree that they're turning up way more often. No argument there. XD
In regards to jumping up and down with sheer excitement... I'd honestly rather do any sort of cave map than an office map. With that said, the only maps I tend to get excited at all over are outdoors maps, the Cimerora caves (what, they're pretty!), and the 'rescue X hostages/find Y canisters' on the city maps. Only because I'm really good at it though.
I'd settle for removing the cake room from defeat all and defeat "insert enemy name" missions.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
I dont mind that room and I dont want those caves to go.
Not every hide-out has to be built for utter hero convenience and not every single room has to be comfortably big and easy to overview. Making a not-so-huge character helps there by the way.
I like variety and if some hideouts are small and maze-y, then so be it.
I only dislike said room being so overused, and because it is always the same. Whenever these caves have a big boss-room, it is always this one stupid room. If there were several different big rooms, even with several layers, I wouldnt even mind so much I think.
[sarcasm] Yeah, let's get rid of all the challenging maps in lieu of the newer easier maps. [/sarcasm]
No thanks. Once you get used to how the old cave maps work and the general layout of them, they aren't really that difficult to navigate. Maybe if you hadn't taken a four year hiatus you would be used to them by now?
And working in close quarters is something that every super hero/villain needs to deal with at some point. Leave my blue/purple/orange caves alone.
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The layer cake room sucks, but that's just that tile.
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I don't hate the caves as much as the multi level room in them. I hate them rooms with a passion!
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If you're careful and watch where you're walking and know the ways back up (moving counter clockwise near the walls will reveal the ramps and stone stairs) that room is no problem at all. I love that room personally. Of course, this could be because I have taken the time to memorize it, every nook and cranny.
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Yep, any opponent who sets up a base in an area where the topology forces his enemies into a neatly constrained kill zone (if their approach is to charge en masse ino the chokepoint) is...well, just not friendly.
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Weeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllll, in caves I'm often in the back [usually behind 3 MM's-worth of pets, whether I like it or not], actually AROUND THE CORNER from the fight. I'm not contributing back there, and the MMs almost never have the courtesy to move their pets to allow others to get by.
I don't fight it, I just leave team after that mission, if the team insists on running mission after mission on these maps.
I could be in front, but most MMs are very adamant about themeselves and their pets being IN FRONT AT ALL TIMES. So the pets can take the damage, true enough, and I'm not gonna fight to try to be in front.... but I'm toddling off to go do something that I actually find FUN, if provoked enough.
So in a sense small-bore caves can actually discourage teaming.
Sigium:
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*glances at location*
BROTHER!
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IantheM1:
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Hey, I'm in Jersey too.
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jersey ftw
rogue isles might be a city of villains
but jerseys a whole state of em
I'm sure this has been brought up before in past forums but I think it is high time the dev's either dump the old blueish caves and either replace them or just get rid of them all together. Here is the basis for my argument:
Having come back from a 4 year hiatus from 05', the biggest complaint then as I think it is now is those wonderful "blueish" cave missions. I say "blueish" as I cannot think of any other way to describe them other than, "blueish". First of all, compared to the other caves, the "brownish" caves and the Cimerora type caves, which are much more tolerable on the eyes and give you enough adequate space to funtion, the "blue" caves seem to restrict the enjoyment you get when in battle.
I am not sure if the dev's deliberately did this to make people hate the blue cave missions as if they would real life caves, having to lug around in dark, tripping over your teammates in hard to see areas? I would say first, start off by changing the color from the blue to maybe a more neutral color. Next, maybe make them wider, like the "brownish" caves or the Cimerora caves.
I have never had someone tell me they "loved" those bluish caves. In fact, I was on a team the other night and someone jokingly said that in I14 if someone makes a mission with those caves, they were gonna kick their butt!...lol
Don't you all agree, it is time for change? I think it is time to say goodbye to the Ole' Blue Caves.