Issue 14: Architect Discussion
By
7thCynic,
Posted on: 2009-02-13 24:50 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
All these pages and no actual information to discuss.
[/ QUOTE ]
You expected something else?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I dunno, it's kind of neat hearing other people's ideas on how they think Mission Architect will be used. The "SG initiation" sounds like a winner.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the mission architect is going to cause a situation where the creative department will almost completely stop creating new quality story arcs.
What a friend told me when I mentioned what issue 14 was going to have he concluded something rather similar.
This is a very dangerous issue. When you put the creative direction in the hands of the community, that gives some of them a message similar to that of Neverwinter Nights.
"You make your own content, we're through."
[/ QUOTE ]
That a bad thing? I was a huge NWN fan back before I got sick to tears of their handling of the game's bugs and issues. Player made content was a BIG reason why that game was such a huge hit. There were tons of persistent worlds. It was like having a hundred little free MMOs begging you to come play. Too bad the sequel bombed like the Titanic.
I look forward to our new player content overlords.
"The bird of Hermes is my name. Eating my wings to make me tame." -The Ripley Scroll
Check out my Deviant Art: http://darkauthor81.deviantart.com/
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the mission architect is going to cause a situation where the creative department will almost completely stop creating new quality story arcs.
What a friend told me when I mentioned what issue 14 was going to have he concluded something rather similar.
This is a very dangerous issue. When you put the creative direction in the hands of the community, that gives some of them a message similar to that of Neverwinter Nights.
"You make your own content, we're through."
[/ QUOTE ]
That a bad thing? I was a huge NWN fan back before I got sick to tears of their handling of the game's bugs and issues. Player made content was a BIG reason why that game was such a huge hit. There were tons of persistent worlds. It was like having a hundred little free MMOs begging you to come play. Too bad the sequel bombed like the Titanic.
I look forward to our new player content overlords.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, however:
A monthly subscription is collected for this game and always will. I love the concept of issue 14, don't get me wrong, but I would love to see new story arcs and improvements/optimizations to the game if we're expected to shell out the monies. (no, 100% of $14.95 hardly ever goes toward server upkeep in MMOs) The concern is inevitable and no doubt shared by some other than me.
That's the difference between a game like CoH and a game like Neverwinter Nights that asks nothing more than the box's purchase.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the mission architect is going to cause a situation where the creative department will almost completely stop creating new quality story arcs.
What a friend told me when I mentioned what issue 14 was going to have he concluded something rather similar.
This is a very dangerous issue. When you put the creative direction in the hands of the community, that gives some of them a message similar to that of Neverwinter Nights.
"You make your own content, we're through."
[/ QUOTE ]
That a bad thing? I was a huge NWN fan back before I got sick to tears of their handling of the game's bugs and issues. Player made content was a BIG reason why that game was such a huge hit. There were tons of persistent worlds. It was like having a hundred little free MMOs begging you to come play. Too bad the sequel bombed like the Titanic.
I look forward to our new player content overlords.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, however:
A monthly subscription is collected for this game and always will. I love the concept of issue 14, don't get me wrong, but I would love to see new story arcs and improvements/optimizations to the game if we're expected to shell out the monies. (no, 100% of $14.95 hardly ever goes toward server upkeep in MMOs) The concern is inevitable and no doubt shared by some other than me.
That's the difference between a game like CoH and a game like Neverwinter Nights that asks nothing more than the box's purchase.
[/ QUOTE ]
I said all this way back before issue 13 was releast and was laughed at. Go figure.
My first thought was, OK,good one! $15 a month so I can make new content. 
But, i'm sure they wont stop making new things. Unless this is the start of the end so they put this feature in because they are all going bye byes.
Either way, I didnt bother making anything with NWN, I dont think I will with this game either. Depends on how easy it is to use. I didnt get NWN to play online with anyway. I dont like MMOs, all but this one, and I dont play it to game with other people. I play it for myself.
Ok Devs, can we get some sort of reasoning on why you are not allowing mobs to give badge credit in MA missions beyond, "Because we said so"?
Srsly.
It would be a perfect opportunity to legitimize certain badges, such as Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc for Heroes, and Outcasts/Trolls/etc for Villains. And I believe there was a comment by Positron about the Cabal defeat badge for Villains (people defeating the summoned Amy pet getting the bar to show up) and how it would be disabled till something could "legitimize" earning it beyond farming that single pet.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Devs, can we get some sort of reasoning on why you are not allowing mobs to give badge credit in MA missions beyond, "Because we said so"?
Srsly.
It would be a perfect opportunity to legitimize certain badges, such as Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc for Heroes, and Outcasts/Trolls/etc for Villains. And I believe there was a comment by Positron about the Cabal defeat badge for Villains (people defeating the summoned Amy pet getting the bar to show up) and how it would be disabled till something could "legitimize" earning it beyond farming that single pet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you have to remember these are the same Devs who just a few weeks ago tried to have the Reformed badge made unearnable by heroes via a stealth change until people had to 'respectfully suggest' that doing so would be an unreasonable bit of revisionism on their part. Fortunately the Devs agreed and "unchanged" their thoughts on that matter. Clearly the Devs' vision of badge earning in this game has been "colorful" to say the least. 
While I agree that the MA could make a few currently annoying badges easier to get it would also potentially make many other badges incredibly trivial to get. We all know that the instant the Devs ever allowed the MA missions to let us to get any defeat badge we wanted there'd be a whole slew of simple "shooting fish in a barrel" styled one-shot missions that would let anyone farm those badges in minutes.
Basically it'd be nice if there was an easier way to get the few badges you mentioned. But in order to make the rest of them not become a complete joke I have to reluctantly agree with the Devs' decision not allow MA missions to grant defeat badges. *shrugs*
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Devs, can we get some sort of reasoning on why you are not allowing mobs to give badge credit in MA missions beyond, "Because we said so"?
Srsly.
It would be a perfect opportunity to legitimize certain badges, such as Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc for Heroes, and Outcasts/Trolls/etc for Villains. And I believe there was a comment by Positron about the Cabal defeat badge for Villains (people defeating the summoned Amy pet getting the bar to show up) and how it would be disabled till something could "legitimize" earning it beyond farming that single pet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you have to remember these are the same Devs who just a few weeks ago tried to have the Reformed badge made unearnable by heroes via a stealth change until people had to 'respectfully suggest' that doing so would be an unreasonable bit of revisionism on their part. Fortunately the Devs agreed and "unchanged" their thoughts on that matter. Clearly the Devs' vision of badge earning in this game has been "colorful" to say the least.
While I agree that the MA could make a few currently annoying badges easier to get it would also potentially make many other badges incredibly trivial to get. We all know that the instant the Devs ever allowed the MA missions to let us to get any defeat badge we wanted there'd be a whole slew of simple "shooting fish in a barrel" styled one-shot missions that would let anyone farm those badges in minutes.
Basically it'd be nice if there was an easier way to get the few badges you mentioned. But in order to make the rest of them not become a complete joke I have to reluctantly agree with the Devs' decision not allow MA missions to grant defeat badges. *shrugs*
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have to say, in the words of Garfield,
"Big fat hairy, DEAL".
So what if some become "trivially easy" to get. Unless the MA allows for the placement of individual mob types, i.e. "This is a lt, this is a minion, this is an underling", there is no real difference between farming a MA mission and street-sweeping cherry picking mob requirements.
And unless I've missed a memo, that kind of mob placement isn't going to be possible.
Edit - At level 50, getting a Troll boss badge, or a Pumicite badge for a Hero, or getting a Goldbricker badge or a Hordeling badge for a Villain is already "trivially easy". Making an artificial distinction that somehow the MA "trivially easy" is different than aforementioned "trivially easy" is just wishful thinking.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Devs, can we get some sort of reasoning on why you are not allowing mobs to give badge credit in MA missions beyond, "Because we said so"?
Srsly.
It would be a perfect opportunity to legitimize certain badges, such as Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc for Heroes, and Outcasts/Trolls/etc for Villains. And I believe there was a comment by Positron about the Cabal defeat badge for Villains (people defeating the summoned Amy pet getting the bar to show up) and how it would be disabled till something could "legitimize" earning it beyond farming that single pet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you have to remember these are the same Devs who just a few weeks ago tried to have the Reformed badge made unearnable by heroes via a stealth change until people had to 'respectfully suggest' that doing so would be an unreasonable bit of revisionism on their part. Fortunately the Devs agreed and "unchanged" their thoughts on that matter. Clearly the Devs' vision of badge earning in this game has been "colorful" to say the least.
While I agree that the MA could make a few currently annoying badges easier to get it would also potentially make many other badges incredibly trivial to get. We all know that the instant the Devs ever allowed the MA missions to let us to get any defeat badge we wanted there'd be a whole slew of simple "shooting fish in a barrel" styled one-shot missions that would let anyone farm those badges in minutes.
Basically it'd be nice if there was an easier way to get the few badges you mentioned. But in order to make the rest of them not become a complete joke I have to reluctantly agree with the Devs' decision not allow MA missions to grant defeat badges. *shrugs*
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have to say, in the words of Garfield,
"Big fat hairy, DEAL".
So what if some become "trivially easy" to get. Unless the MA allows for the placement of individual mob types, i.e. "This is a lt, this is a minion, this is an underling", there is no real difference between farming a MA mission and street-sweeping cherry picking mob requirements.
And unless I've missed a memo, that kind of mob placement isn't going to be possible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Regardless of the question of MOB placement in the MA missions if those missions allowed us to farm for any defeat badge it would make many (if not all) of them much, much simpler. Exactly where can a hero merely street-sweep for Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc now?
I honestly don't care all -that- much about this issue because my main badgers already have all the defeat badges on both sides. I spent the time and effort required to get them so if the Devs decided to undermine their own system by making them all trivial to get via MA it's not going to change the fact that I have them already.
On the other hand I just don't think it's worth making the whole concept of the defeat badge a complete joke in this game just for the sake of making a few of them a bit easier. It'd be like trying to have an Easter Egg hunt and having someone just hand you a basket full of eggs right off the bat because they don't want you to have to go through the trouble of finding a few of the harder-to-find ones by yourself. *shrugs*
I tend to think part of what makes some defeat badges harder than others is not necessarily how hard it is to defeat the particular critter in question but how hard it is to -encounter- those particular critters in the first place. I also think the nature of those harder badges was in fact intended by design. MA would ruin that...
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of the question of MOB placement in the MA missions if those missions allowed us to farm for any defeat badge it would make many (if not all) of them much, much simpler. Exactly where can a hero merely street-sweep for Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Thing is though, you already CAN farm most of the badge mobs, excepting those that are "rare" on either side of the fence. Saying that farming those is somehow "better" or "harder" than farming MA mobs is facetious.
And you'll notice that the Hordelings bit would be legitimized by adding in credit. Currently, you can ONLY get those badges on a Hero by doing some finagling with levels in the Valentine's Mission. If a Hero getting Reformed (either through farming Gaussian's mission, the doors, or getting Confused) was such an issue, then those Defeats, logically, should also be an issue.
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't care all -that- much about this issue because my main badgers already have all the defeat badges on both sides. I spent the time and effort required to get them so if the Devs decided to undermine their own system by making them all trivial to get via MA it's not going to change the fact that I have them already.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. Here's the reason why. You've already got them. So everyone else should have to go through the same hoops.
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I just don't think it's worth making the whole concept of the defeat badge a complete joke in this game just for the sake of making a few of them a bit easier. It'd be like trying to have an Easter Egg hunt and having someone just hand you a basket full of eggs right off the bat because they don't want you to have to go through the trouble of finding a few of the harder-to-find ones by yourself. *shrugs*
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, tell me exactly how defeating them in the MA is any different than defeating them on the streets or farming things like the Destroy Hero Statues mission. You are defeating them in both instances. You are not suddenly logging in to find that you have the badges.
Also, strawman argument.
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to think part of what makes some defeat badges harder than others is not necessarily how hard it is to defeat the particular critter in question but how hard it is to -encounter- those particular critters in the first place. I also think the nature of those harder badges was in fact intended by design. MA would ruin that...
[/ QUOTE ]
*snort*
So you're saying the Outcasts villainside was intended? Rather than what I seem to recall Positron saying something about "rogue mission writers" or something like that (memory is a bit hazy).
Or that it was "intended" that Heroes use a lvl5-24ish Villain to set the spawning in the Defeat Terrigol mission to get Hordelings?
Saying it was "intended" is handwaving away bad design.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of the question of MOB placement in the MA missions if those missions allowed us to farm for any defeat badge it would make many (if not all) of them much, much simpler. Exactly where can a hero merely street-sweep for Hordelings/Hellfrosts/etc now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Thing is though, you already CAN farm most of the badge mobs, excepting those that are "rare" on either side of the fence. Saying that farming those is somehow "better" or "harder" than farming MA mobs is facetious.
And you'll notice that the Hordelings bit would be legitimized by adding in credit. Currently, you can ONLY get those badges on a Hero by doing some finagling with levels in the Valentine's Mission. If a Hero getting Reformed (either through farming Gaussian's mission, the doors, or getting Confused) was such an issue, then those Defeats, logically, should also be an issue.
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't care all -that- much about this issue because my main badgers already have all the defeat badges on both sides. I spent the time and effort required to get them so if the Devs decided to undermine their own system by making them all trivial to get via MA it's not going to change the fact that I have them already.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. Here's the reason why. You've already got them. So everyone else should have to go through the same hoops.
[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand I just don't think it's worth making the whole concept of the defeat badge a complete joke in this game just for the sake of making a few of them a bit easier. It'd be like trying to have an Easter Egg hunt and having someone just hand you a basket full of eggs right off the bat because they don't want you to have to go through the trouble of finding a few of the harder-to-find ones by yourself. *shrugs*
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, tell me exactly how defeating them in the MA is any different than defeating them on the streets or farming things like the Destroy Hero Statues mission. You are defeating them in both instances. You are not suddenly logging in to find that you have the badges.
Also, strawman argument.
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to think part of what makes some defeat badges harder than others is not necessarily how hard it is to defeat the particular critter in question but how hard it is to -encounter- those particular critters in the first place. I also think the nature of those harder badges was in fact intended by design. MA would ruin that...
[/ QUOTE ]
*snort*
So you're saying the Outcasts villainside was intended? Rather than what I seem to recall Positron saying something about "rogue mission writers" or something like that (memory is a bit hazy).
Or that it was "intended" that Heroes use a lvl5-24ish Villain to set the spawning in the Defeat Terrigol mission to get Hordelings?
Saying it was "intended" is handwaving away bad design.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I will have to point out that your semi-legitimate argument for why the MA -should- allow for defeat badge farming is a bit muddied by the stench of "I don't want to have to work for them like other people did" regardless if the Devs intended them to be hard to get or not.
Sure the Devs let a few badges through they might not have otherwise wanted to slip through and you can call that a bad design all you want. You think it's their duty now to make those mistakes that much easier to exploit? 
Sadly I don't think there is anyway you could pretty up that fundamental problem with your position on this. Sorry.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
Well I will have to point out that your semi-legitimate argument for why the MA -should- allow for defeat badge farming is a bit muddied by the stench of "I don't want to have to work for them like other people did" regardless if the Devs intended them to be hard to get or not.
Sadly I don't think there is anyway you could pretty up that fundamental problem with your position on this. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
You'd have a point, except for that's NOT what I'm saying. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.
I've worked for them. I've gotten the Hordelings on my Hero. I went through the doors and confusion method for Reformed. I'm partway through Outcasts on my Villain. I farmed the Tuatha on about half a dozen villains for Bane of Danaan.
Edit - I also farmed Empath in the Arena for over a year. Do NOT talk to me about me not "wanting to do the same work as others".
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well I will have to point out that your semi-legitimate argument for why the MA -should- allow for defeat badge farming is a bit muddied by the stench of "I don't want to have to work for them like other people did" regardless if the Devs intended them to be hard to get or not.
Sadly I don't think there is anyway you could pretty up that fundamental problem with your position on this. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
You'd have a point, except for that's NOT what I'm saying. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.
I've worked for them. I've gotten the Hordelings on my Hero. I went through the doors and confusion method for Reformed. I'm partway through Outcasts on my Villain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah so you've worked or are working for these badges already. Good for you.
You understand some of the "hoop jumping" involved.
You might even be able to appreciate your effort once you've finished these hard badging tasks eventually...
Sure it'd be nice if MA could make some of those easier to do. But do you really want those few (and by extension pretty much every other defeat badge) to become absolutely pointless? Sure some are easily farmable now, but what you're talking about is being able to have every defeat badge on a character completable in a matter of a few hours. That kind of trivialization is completely overboard.
You have a screw that you're trying to unscrew and instead of suggesting a better screwdriver to unscrew it you're suggesting we be allowed to use an atom bomb to blow up the building the screw is in.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah so you've worked or are working for these badges already. Good for you.
You undertstand some of the "hoop jumping" involved.
You might even be able to appreciate your effort once you've finished these hard badging tasks eventually...
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, see my comment about Empath. Just because I did something the hard, long, and boring way does not mean I want someone else to go through the same crap. You'll notice that I also was for lowering Empath even though I had already spent a year getting the 1 billion heals.
[ QUOTE ]
Sure it'd be nice if MA could make some of those easier to do. But do you really want those few (and by extension pretty much every other defeat badge) to become absolutely pointless? Sure some are easily farmable now, but what you're talking about is being able to have every defeat badge on a character completable in a matter of a few hours.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weren't you also in the camp to lower the requirements on Empath? Weren't you also one of the ones that wouldn't feel "cheated" if they lowered it?
Looking like a bit of a hypocrite if you are now suddenly changing your tune that the defeat badges are the line in the sand.
There is NOTHING on a character that says how they got the badge, other than that they have it. There's nothing saying a person got Reformed by the doors or by farming Gaussian's arc. There's nothing saying that a person farmed a Crey mission for Paragon Protectors or that they went to the Fab and cherry-picked. There's nothing saying that a person farmed Titans in Warburg or that they went to the RWZ.
See, I don't CARE what other people do. I know what I did and that's all that matters to me. They had to defeat the same number of mobs for the badge that I did. How they went about it is not my business nor my interest.
[ QUOTE ]
You have a screw that you're trying to unscrew and instead of suggesting a better screwdriver to unscrew it your suggesting we be allowed to use an atom bomb to blow up the building the screw is in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Strawman much?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah so you've worked or are working for these badges already. Good for you.
You understand some of the "hoop jumping" involved.
You might even be able to appreciate your effort once you've finished these hard badging tasks eventually...
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, see my comment about Empath. Just because I did something the hard, long, and boring way does not mean I want someone else to go through the same crap. You'll notice that I also was for lowering Empath even though I had already spent a year getting the 1 billion heals.
[/ QUOTE ]
Surprise! So was I. 
I got Empath the 'hard' way yet I probably wrote hundreds of posts in support of reducing Empath's original ridiculous requirement before AND after I got it. The difference between Empath and these few hard defeat badges is that Empath was BROKEN as it was. Many estimated it could take up to TEN YEARS of back-to-back days to earn Empath if you didn't farm for it. These defeat badges on the other hand are merely just 'vaguely hard' to get by comparison.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure it'd be nice if MA could make some of those easier to do. But do you really want those few (and by extension pretty much every other defeat badge) to become absolutely pointless? Sure some are easily farmable now, but what you're talking about is being able to have every defeat badge on a character completable in a matter of a few hours.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weren't you also in the camp to lower the requirements on Empath? Weren't you also one of the ones that wouldn't feel "cheated" if they lowered it?
Looking like a bit of a hypocrite if you are now suddenly changing your tune that the defeat badges are the line in the sand.
There is NOTHING on a character that says how they got the badge, other than that they have it. There's nothing saying a person got Reformed by the doors or by farming Gaussian's arc. There's nothing saying that a person farmed a Crey mission for Paragon Protectors or that they went to the Fab and cherry-picked. There's nothing saying that a person farmed Titans in Warburg or that they went to the RWZ.
See, I don't CARE what other people do. I know what I did and that's all that matters to me. They had to defeat the same number of mobs for the badge that I did. How they went about it is not my business nor my interest.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I'm not suddenly changing my tune about this in the slightest. You are the one blowing this thing out of proportion trying to equate the stupidity of the original Empath to the mild annoyance of these defeat badges.
I have never once attempted to equate Empath apples to defeat badge oranges. For you to try to gain sympathy by trying to spin these defeat badges as the "next Empath" to be fixed is pretty sad to say the least.
Can you not see a little difference between ten years of daily back-to-back playing versus a few days or weeks of reasonable effort to finish a 'challenging' defeat badge? I can at least.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have a screw that you're trying to unscrew and instead of suggesting a better screwdriver to unscrew it your suggesting we be allowed to use an atom bomb to blow up the building the screw is in.
[/ QUOTE ]
Strawman much?
[/ QUOTE ]
You may keep calling my reasonable analogies of this situation strawmen all you want.
But they are useful in highlighting the relative absurdity of your position on this.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
Surprise! So was I.
I got Empath the 'hard' way yet I probably wrote hundreds of posts in support of reducing Empath's original ridiculous requirement before AND after I got it. The difference between Empath and these few hard defeat badges is that Empath was BROKEN as it was. Many estimated it could take up to TEN YEARS of back-to-back days to earn Empath if you didn't farm for it. These defeat badges on the other hand are just merely just 'vaguely hard' to get by comparison.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet, Bane of Danaan, Weed Whacker, Coldblooded, and the like are only available for about two weeks out of the year.
Do you not see how broken it is that one must farm a single mission for a badge?
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm not suddenly changing my tune about this in the slightest. You are the one blowing this thing out of proportion trying to equate the stupidity of the original Empath to the mild annoyance of these defeat badges.
I have never once attempted to equate Empath apples to defeat badge oranges. For you to try to gain sympathy by trying to spin these defeat badges as the "next Empath" to be fixed is pretty sad to say the least.
Can you not see a little difference between ten years of daily back-to-back playing versus a few days or weeks of reasonable effort to finish a 'challenging' defeat badge?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, what I AM doing is pointing out the...lack of forethought... of saying, "These Calibans/Lead Shockers/Magma Lords/etc are not the same as those OTHER Calibans/Lead Shockers/Magma Lords/etc, so NO BADGE FOR YOU! Come back, 1 Year!".
There is no measurable difference between the mobs encountered in a MA mission and the mobs encountered in a Radio/Newspaper/Contact/Street.
I never said they were the "next Empath". Just that you are a bit of a hypocrite in that you were willing to farm for Empath and are happy with other having to get 1/10th of what you did, but someone farming an Outcasts arc while you had to reset the Destroy Hero Statue mission 34+ times is over the line.
[ QUOTE ]
You may keep calling my reasonable analogies of this situation strawmen all you want.
But they are useful in highlighting the relative absurdity of your position on this.
[/ QUOTE ]
*snort* Again.
Reasonable analogies? Sorry, they are not quite. All you are missing is the "DooOoOOOOmMMM!" posting in how letting defeat credit count in MA missions would absolutely, horribly, ruin the game.
There is nothing unreasonable with wanting consistency. That's all. Just consistency.
But of course, consistency when they've decided that only certain types of crafting count for Fabricator, or that Base Salvage is "confusing" to players but they are comfortable adding in a sixth currency type to the game, has never been the strong suit around here.
Oh you'll never get an argument out of me that the Devs have made some silly mistakes and design decisions with regards to badges. My initial response to you in this thread made light of one example of that.
I just find it hard to accept that having to deal with a few 'marginal' defeat badges with a few 'quirky' requirements is really something that A) needs to be fixed ASAP or B) are anywhere near approaching the badness of one particular badge named Empath. Basically there is no badge left in the game that remotely qualifies as being comparable to what that was.
There are so very few ACTUAL challenges in this game that it just really irks me when someone picks on a relatively tame one like these few defeat badges and wants a way to make them that much more absolutely trivial to get. It doesn't really matter if you or I have those badges already or whether or not anyone else will know how you got those badges or not.
Ultimately of course it doesn't really matter what I think about it because as you pointed out in the beginning the Devs have already made the decision on this. If you want to argue consistency then I could mention the fact that since the beginning of badges the Devs have only modified the specific requirements of 4 individual badges in 4 years, and two of those were done because their original requirements had the slight hiccup of being 100% broken.
You seem to think all defeat badges should be equally (and trivially) farmable.
I happen to disagree with that.
I think broken badges should be fixed, and the Devs have made progress in those cases that truly needed it.
But "hard to get" does not automatically equal broken and never will.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
Oh you'll never get an argument out of me that the Devs have made some silly mistakes and design decisions with regards to badges. My initial response to you in this thread made light of one example of that
[/ QUOTE ]
And this is a silly design decision that could be used to fix their past mistakes. Yet they are wasting a perfect opportunity to correct those mistakes. Or if not correct them, then mitigate the effects of those mistakes.
[ QUOTE ]
There are so very few ACTUAL challenges in this game that it just really irks me when someone picks on a relatively tame one like these few defeat badges and wants a way to make them that much more absolutely trivial to get. It doesn't really matter if you or I have those badges already or whether or not anyone else will know how you got those badges or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Defeat badges are not "challenges". Any more than 7-Day Survivor in Dead Rising is a challenge. They are simply a measure of what you have defeated. Not how you defeated them and not how long it took you to defeat them.
The only "real" challenge in the game, in regards to badges, is Master of Statesman's Task Force and Master of Lord Recluse's Strike Force. That's it.
[ QUOTE ]
You seem to think all defeat badges should be equally (and trivially) farmable.
I happen to disagree with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet you say that it would make them "that much more absolutely trivial to get". Meaning they are already "trivial". If they are "trivial" already, then what does it matter if they are included in the MA?
I don't know about Heroes, as I don't play Blue Side, but you included Coldblooded in your list earlier. This badge is readily available Villains side with minimal effort. And, you don't have to be nowhere near 50 to get it.
All in all, I disaggree with you. If the Badge states that you have to kill X number of Z critter, then do what is necesary to kill them.
Unlike alot of folks on here, I do not believe that the Mission Architect is, or was ever intended to replace Dev Content. As such, it should NOT give credits for killing specific critters for specific Badges, because a player could then set up a 5 Mish Arc with the needed enemy group in question, and play it til they get the badge chime. If this is the case, then who cares about Defeat Badges, they become useless, because I can write a Arc and get them whenever I want.
I know, there are alot of harder to get ones, but your suggestion truly makes the others meaningless.
As for those who think that MA is the "END OF THE GAME", because the Devs are all going Bye-bye, and no more content will ever be added to the game other than from the Playerbase;
1) Why release this game for MAC, a whole new operating system if you intend to Shelf/Put out to Pasture the game?
To do so would be slapping your new Apple Playerbase in the face.
2) Posi has big plans for the I15 Aniversary Issue.
Some folks have already Speculated that this may be storied around the 5th Column.
Hmmm, doesn't sound like an end to new Dev Content there.
3) I read an article written by a Dev who worked on the New Cimeroro Story Arcs that hit in I13. He was adament in saying that the Sister Airlia Similarities to Ghost Widow were not coincidence. That future Story Arcs based on this Character would delve into her link to Ghost Widow.
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like the Devs plan to quit there either.
(I'm new to the whole "Providing a Link" thing, or I would link to these.)
4) Finally, if I15 is Hypothetically the Last Big Bang from the Devs;
a) Folks will play the new content.
b) Once they play it, knowing that no future upgrades, updates, patches, fixes, content, or Dev presence is forthcoming; they will quit.
For the brand new Apple peeps, they will be extremely pissed.
For the rest of us, I for one will be pissed too.
I just do not see them doing that.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about Heroes, as I don't play Blue Side, but you included Coldblooded in your list earlier. This badge is readily available Villains side with minimal effort. And, you don't have to be nowhere near 50 to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Coldblooded/Coldhearted/whatever its name is, is NOT available to Heroes beyond farming the Defeat Terrigol Valentine's Day mission with a specific level range of Villain being first in to the map.
[ QUOTE ]
All in all, I disaggree with you. If the Badge states that you have to kill X number of Z critter, then do what is necesary to kill them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Answer me this...how are the mobs in the MA any different, provided they are stock critters and not futzed with to have more or fewer powers than their vanilla counterparts, than the mobs in any other map.
[ QUOTE ]
Unlike alot of folks on here, I do not believe that the Mission Architect is, or was ever intended to replace Dev Content. As such, it should NOT give credits for killing specific critters for specific Badges, because a player could then set up a 5 Mish Arc with the needed enemy group in question, and play it til they get the badge chime. If this is the case, then who cares about Defeat Badges, they become useless, because I can write a Arc and get them whenever I want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, answer please how this is any different than a Villain farming a Legacy Chain map, or a Hero farming the 7th Generation Paragon Protector mission, or someone farming a Master Illusionist in a Paper/Radio mission?
Edit - You are also attaching emotions/descriptions/assumptions/whatever to something that doesn't inherently have them. Again, the badges signify that you have beaten <x> number of whatever baddies. It doesn't ascribe motive, it doesn't ascribe means, it doesn't ascribe opportunity. Just that you beat that number. YOU are attaching significance that the badge doesn't inherently have.
[ QUOTE ]
Want to talk about <a href="/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=13063944" target="_blank">Issue 14: Architect</a>?
Please use this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
i guess i missed where we were given information on i14? other than that blog/journal thing where some mad scientist or someone rambled on about something. sort of like the mad scientist that rambled on about powerset proliferation, except that guy actually gave some information about particulars.
so is this thread pretty much for people to go "yaaay i14", or did i miss the i14 info?
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
[ QUOTE ]
Coldblooded/Coldhearted/whatever its name is, is NOT available to Heroes beyond farming the Defeat Terrigol Valentine's Day mission with a specific level range of Villain being first in to the map.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry to hear that. I play Villains, not Heroes, so I do not have that problem.
[ QUOTE ]
Answer me this...how are the mobs in the MA any different, provided they are stock critters and not futzed with to have more or fewer powers than their vanilla counterparts, than the mobs in any other map.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because, while the Mob CONTENT is not player defined, the Enemy Group in each mission of the Story Arc is. You can go to Paragonwiki, look up Hordlings, see what lvl ranges they are set up at, and design a five mission Story Arc with nothing but CoT as the enemy.
This is true for every other ememy group in the game.
Instead of having one Mish that you are farming to get the kills on the random Spawn, you have greatly increased the chances of spawns by having 5 missions to farm.
You describe farming one mission, you are talking about the ability to farm an entire 5 mission story arc.
There is a big difference there.
[ QUOTE ]
Again, answer please how this is any different than a Villain farming a Legacy Chain map, or a Hero farming the 7th Generation Paragon Protector mission, or someone farming a Master Illusionist in a Paper/Radio mission?
[/ QUOTE ]
As I sadi above, because you now will have the ability to do a little research, and set up a 5 mission story arc to greatly improve your chances of fighting said particular enemy.
The difference is farming 1 mission and dealing with the random spawn, Vs. farming 5 missions dealing with the random spawn.
If you can't see how that greatly improves your chances to steamroll some of these Badges, then I don't know what else to tell ya.
[ QUOTE ]
Edit - You are also attaching emotions/descriptions/assumptions/whatever to something that doesn't inherently have them. Again, the badges signify that you have beaten <x> number of whatever baddies. It doesn't ascribe motive, it doesn't ascribe means, it doesn't ascribe opportunity. Just that you beat that number. YOU are attaching significance that the badge doesn't inherently have.
[/ QUOTE ]
How so?
I am not a Badge Hunter. I have never Badge Hunted, and prolly never will.
I do however try to get Accolades for my Toons, because they provide advantages in sticky situations. I try to get all the SG Badges because they unlock things for my Base. Other than that I get what Badges I get through regular gameplay and think no more about it.
I attach a certain amount of Emotion to my Toons, because I like to give them Backstories, and usually build them around a predetermined theme.
I have never encountered the Badge that I have emotionally decided "Wow! I just gotta go get this for all my Toons!!!!!"
I don't think that I added a description for any Badge, other than to state that Coldblooded is relatively easy to get in Villains.
Assumptions I make are based on my experience with the Game. I stated from the start that I do not play Heroes. Therefore I do not know what is required for you to get your Badges.
When I first started playing this game, I played Heroes, and there were CoT everywhere. None of the CoT content on the Heroes side spawns Hordlings/Hellfrosts? I wasn't there long enough to know, so I am asking.
As far as Significance, I guess all Badges are significant to the Badge Hunter.
I only seek what is required for Accolades, and SG Items. If a Badge falls under either category, it is significant to me. If it doesn't? I get it or I don't, and really could care less.
Regards
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry to hear that. I play Villains, not Heroes, so I do not have that problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, you have a similar problem.
Outcasts, as I've repeatedly said, only exist in ONE mission. And then, you can only get 3 Boss-types if you have a full team on the second or fourth difficulty. A person needs to reset that one mission a minimum of 34 times. Possibly as many as 100 if you are doing it solo.
[ QUOTE ]
Because, while the Mob CONTENT is not player defined, the Enemy Group in each mission of the Story Arc is. You can go to Paragonwiki, look up Hordlings, see what lvl ranges they are set up at, and design a five mission Story Arc with nothing but CoT as the enemy.
This is true for every other ememy group in the game.
Instead of having one Mish that you are farming to get the kills on the random Spawn, you have greatly increased the chances of spawns by having 5 missions to farm.
You describe farming one mission, you are talking about the ability to farm an entire 5 mission story arc.
There is a big difference there.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is NO difference.
One can currently look up which arcs spawn what, and do exactly what you say would be a "problem" by running those arcs. Not to mention, one can farm arcs or missions simply by resetting them. No travel involved.
The mobs are no different. Hence, there should be no difference in earning credit. Since one cannot, to the best of my knowledge, state that each mob placed will be a Lead Shocker or a Rikti Monkey, a person STILL has to do the exact same things that they would do in a mission in the wild so to speak.
[ QUOTE ]
As I sadi above, because you now will have the ability to do a little research, and set up a 5 mission story arc to greatly improve your chances of fighting said particular enemy.
The difference is farming 1 mission and dealing with the random spawn, Vs. farming 5 missions dealing with the random spawn.
If you can't see how that greatly improves your chances to steamroll some of these Badges, then I don't know what else to tell ya.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but you haven't answered anything. Doing anything with the MA for defeat badges is NO different than what goes on currently. Defeat 100 Mages in a MA mission or defeat 100 Mages in a newspaper mission or defeat 100 Mages on the street makes no difference. You have still defeated 100 Mages, which is all the badge cares about or signifies.
[ QUOTE ]
When I first started playing this game, I played Heroes, and there were CoT everywhere. None of the CoT content on the Heroes side spawns Hordlings/Hellfrosts? I wasn't there long enough to know, so I am asking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. Hellfrosts, Hordelings, Succubi, and other things like Legacy Chain, Luddites, Wyvern, Goldbrickers, Snakes, etc don't show up heroside, which is why one needs to do that Defeat Terrigol mission with some finagling to get the Hordelings/Hellfrosts/Succubi (the others are simply unavailable) to spawn.
[ QUOTE ]
The mobs are no different. Hence, there should be no difference in earning credit. Since one cannot, to the best of my knowledge, state that each mob placed will be a Lead Shocker or a Rikti Monkey, a person STILL has to do the exact same things that they would do in a mission in the wild so to speak.
[/ QUOTE ]
Critical line here is "The Mobs are no different."
[ QUOTE ]
You haven't answered anything. Doing anything with the MA for defeat badges is NO different than what goes on currently. Defeat 100 Mages in a MA mission or defeat 100 Mages in a newspaper mission or defeat 100 Mages on the street makes no difference. You have still defeated 100 Mages, which is all the badge cares about or signifies.
[/ QUOTE ]
See Below...
[ QUOTE ]
Nope. Hellfrosts, Hordelings, Succubi, and other things like Legacy Chain, Luddites, Wyvern, Goldbrickers, Snakes, etc don't show up heroside, which is why one needs to do that Defeat Terrigol mission with some finagling to get the Hordelings/Hellfrosts/Succubi (the others are simply unavailable) to spawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
K, here goes...
If they don't spawn in "normal" Heroes CoT content (in the case of Coldblooded), why do you think they will spawn in MA Story Arcs designed by a Hero?
Apparently, the Devs had some reason for making this a hard Badge for a Hero to get.
They made it easy for a Villain.
I'm sure there are countering ones that are the opposite, easy for Heroes, Hard for Villains.
My guess, is that even if you were to be given Badge Credit, you still would not be able to get the corrects Spawns, because they are flagged not to spawn Blue Side.
That is total speculation, but it is most likely accurate.
It also means your argument is useless, since you couldn't get them to spawn even if you did get credit for killing them.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
All these pages and no actual information to discuss.
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)