[ QUOTE ]
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
We've noticed. 
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
True enough, but then you get into the question of "what is the power for" Running is to get around. Walking would be of no practical purpose except to show off a look. When showing off, you want to look the way you want to look. I can't think of a single time I made use of running to show off the look of my character.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have a point, actually. Running, even if we don't like it, is still something we do because it gets us places. Walking has no practical purpose and, in fact, comes with penalties, so those who walk will walk because they like how it looks. Which means it pretty much has to please them.
Of course, I wanted to go for the notion that those who don't like it are free to just not walk, but BABs is right - it's a major challenge for not much return. If it doesn't please enough people, it's at best a fringe benefit, and that's not worth it.
It is my hope, however, that one of these days we'll get a bunch of things that are "not worth it" just as a bit of luxury. One of the things I've always liked about games is paying attention to the little things. Sometimes developers put a lot of work into something that, in itself, isn't really very meaningful. But all these things together make a game that "feels" very high quality, regardless of what it actually does. A good example of that would be the Prince of Persia series of games. There isn't any one thing that is THAT remarkable about them, at least not by today's standards, but by the same token, there is NOT A SINGLE THING about them that is obviously bad. Fluent animations go from any state to any other state, every motion is accounted for, every button, switch or lever is pressed in a natural way and pretty much everything that happens on-screen has been touched. Compared to the recently-released Tomb Raider game, which is supposed to be the definition of that genre, the difference is stark. Some good animations co-exist with some bad ones, a good climbing system coexists with a crappy combat system, intended paths look and feel good while unintended ledges are stiff and ungrabbable... There are PLENTY of things that are low-quality which bring the game's total value down.
On the other side of the fence is EA, the WallMart of video games. Big-money licenser of cheap, low-quality games. Crappy engines, incessant crashing, mountains of compatibility issues, unsupported resolutions, rushed game development, reused settings and animations, boring, repetitive stapled gameplay, lack of options... The list goes on and on. Anything with their name on it is guaranteed to be low-quality garbage that looks good on the surface and may be fun if you don't intend to replay it ever again. Even actually GOOD games like the Battlefield series are dragged down, down, down by literally thousands of niggling little bugs, problems and insufficiencies. Their games are just about "good enough" in pretty much every aspect.
To me, even if a change doesn't add that much immediate return in an investment, if it's something that's not just good enough, but something that's excellent, so good that it's like it was always there, then that's still a change that makes the overall game experience MUCH better. Quality above basic functionality is what differentiates the single-use throw-away games from the truly great games that I play even after they're morally deprecated. That's Blizzard's StarCraft is so popular - it's not an exceptionally innovative game, but it is just polished in about every possible way for a game of that age.
To me, I understand some changes to City of Heroes will never be worth it. Walking, power customization, glowing costume colours and so forth are good examples. They'll always be so costly as to not be worth the investment. Yet at the same time, I cannot help but think that, as any luxury, once we have them, the game's prestige, especially in the eyes of first-time users, will increase dramatically.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was a walk framework whipped up for the release of trenchcoats. The models were shown off pre-launch with the subtext of 'this is a once-only thing'.
Well...the framework was there once. 
[/ QUOTE ]You can make players walk by editing a demo record.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've also seen players walk in extremely laggy situations.
So, you're saying we can't have these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't post angry comments about any walk button we get "some day", but I can see prioritizing other stuff above it...like a 'scamper on all fours' run animation...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, of course, I've never seen this as an especially high priority. Other things being more important is a good reason. I'm just worried increasingly simple things have been getting the "not everyone will like it" treatment, to the point where I'm starting to worry if it really is priorities deciding or if it's that reluctance to not please everybody.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a difference between 'not everyone will like it, but it'll only take a couple of hours' and 'not everyone will like it, and it'll take more time to do than pretty much anything else'
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you will make use a flaming broadsword? *hopeful*
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't post angry comments about any walk button we get "some day", but I can see prioritizing other stuff above it...like a 'scamper on all fours' run animation...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, of course, I've never seen this as an especially high priority. Other things being more important is a good reason. I'm just worried increasingly simple things have been getting the "not everyone will like it" treatment, to the point where I'm starting to worry if it really is priorities deciding or if it's that reluctance to not please everybody.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a difference between 'not everyone will like it, but it'll only take a couple of hours' and 'not everyone will like it, and it'll take more time to do than pretty much anything else'
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you will make use a flaming broadsword? *hopeful*
[/ QUOTE ]ta-da!
BAB is so awesome he went back in time to accomplish your request.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
So, you're saying we can't have these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlBUglE6Hc
[/ QUOTE ]
Not without paying royalties. It would be worth it, though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't post angry comments about any walk button we get "some day", but I can see prioritizing other stuff above it...like a 'scamper on all fours' run animation...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, of course, I've never seen this as an especially high priority. Other things being more important is a good reason. I'm just worried increasingly simple things have been getting the "not everyone will like it" treatment, to the point where I'm starting to worry if it really is priorities deciding or if it's that reluctance to not please everybody.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a difference between 'not everyone will like it, but it'll only take a couple of hours' and 'not everyone will like it, and it'll take more time to do than pretty much anything else'
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not everyone will like it describes every single change. There hasn't been one improvement to the system without detractors complaining they wanted something else done instead.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't post angry comments about any walk button we get "some day", but I can see prioritizing other stuff above it...like a 'scamper on all fours' run animation...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, of course, I've never seen this as an especially high priority. Other things being more important is a good reason. I'm just worried increasingly simple things have been getting the "not everyone will like it" treatment, to the point where I'm starting to worry if it really is priorities deciding or if it's that reluctance to not please everybody.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a difference between 'not everyone will like it, but it'll only take a couple of hours' and 'not everyone will like it, and it'll take more time to do than pretty much anything else'
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not everyone will like it describes every single change. There hasn't been one improvement to the system without detractors complaining they wanted something else done instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
ummm, that was his point.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't post angry comments about any walk button we get "some day", but I can see prioritizing other stuff above it...like a 'scamper on all fours' run animation...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, of course, I've never seen this as an especially high priority. Other things being more important is a good reason. I'm just worried increasingly simple things have been getting the "not everyone will like it" treatment, to the point where I'm starting to worry if it really is priorities deciding or if it's that reluctance to not please everybody.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a difference between 'not everyone will like it, but it'll only take a couple of hours' and 'not everyone will like it, and it'll take more time to do than pretty much anything else'
Really, the 'not everyone will like it part' is a very, very minor concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not everyone will like it describes every single change. There hasn't been one improvement to the system without detractors complaining they wanted something else done instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
ummm, that was his point.
[/ QUOTE ]
He didn't like the way the other guy said it so he said it a different way.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the code problem with trying to set either a max or absolute speed, but I don't understand BaB's number of animations statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know what, I was wrong...we actually need 15-90 animations
Walk forward
Walk backward
Walk Strafe-Left
Walk Strafe-Right
Stop walking, transition back to ready
Times 3 for each body type: male, female, and huge
Times 6 for the various 'modes' to both cover the different hand/arm positions and to properly transition back into the appropriate 'ready' stance when you stop walking: Ready, Combat Ready, Weapon Ready, Dual Ready (used by katana and archery as well), 'Shotgun' Ready, and Shield Ready
15-90 animations needed to do a 'walk button'. (Or 105 if we wanted to accomodate the two-handed club stance as well.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I take it you are animating all the vertexes at once rather than in select groups by choice when designing animations of any kind? Or do you do a little of both? Or maybe you're not allowed to fire off multiple animations per actor using this engine?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the code problem with trying to set either a max or absolute speed, but I don't understand BaB's number of animations statement.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know what, I was wrong...we actually need 15-90 animations
Walk forward
Walk backward
Walk Strafe-Left
Walk Strafe-Right
Stop walking, transition back to ready
Times 3 for each body type: male, female, and huge
Times 6 for the various 'modes' to both cover the different hand/arm positions and to properly transition back into the appropriate 'ready' stance when you stop walking: Ready, Combat Ready, Weapon Ready, Dual Ready (used by katana and archery as well), 'Shotgun' Ready, and Shield Ready
15-90 animations needed to do a 'walk button'. (Or 105 if we wanted to accomodate the two-handed club stance as well.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Issue 16: Walking Tall!
After 18 months of hard work and restructuring our design team we bring you the next exciting issue of City of Heroes and Villains! Walking Tall! Now you no longer have to run anywhere but can leisurely strut, walk or shuffle your way to adventure!
Features:
You can walk
*sigh* So much work, but it might be worth it!
[/ QUOTE ]
"Don't run, walk to that new contact, he'll still be there waiting for you to arrive" 
Positron did say they would be putting out things they had previously said were impossible. Maybe we will be able to walk soon...haha.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
It's really a silly thing not to be able to do. We can run but we can't walk. I understood where BaBs was coming from with the engine and all, but it really is silly especially when you see characters walking in some of the trailers.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
[ QUOTE ]
It's really a silly thing not to be able to do. We can run but we can't walk. I understood where BaBs was coming from with the engine and all, but it really is silly especially when you see characters walking in some of the trailers.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em bangs head on desk
They are able to do things in the videos that they can not do in game. Why do people think that a group pf graphic artists and game developers are unable to manipulate a short video enough that it's basically nothing but a short bit of animation?
/Signed
I want to walk just because I can't do it already, and after 5 mins of it I imagine I'll be bored of the slow pace and run everywhere again lmao.
Seriously though, from an RP perspective I can see why people have always wanted this but for the work it'll take I doubt we'll see it any time soon.
Shhh. My common sense is tingling. ~ Deadpool
Hi I'm n00b.
Perhaps if the Devs created a multi-point poll on the majority, if not all, issues the gaming community would like to see addressed.
I wonder how many votes a walking animation would receive from all incoming votes?
[ QUOTE ]
/Signed
I want to walk just because I can't do it already, and after 5 mins of it I imagine I'll be bored of the slow pace and run everywhere again lmao.
Seriously though, from an RP perspective I can see why people have always wanted this but for the work it'll take I doubt we'll see it any time soon.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the bolded part is exactly why BaBs shouldn't spend any time on it. I would prefer he spend the time making animations that would be used, on new powersets mostly.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's really a silly thing not to be able to do. We can run but we can't walk. I understood where BaBs was coming from with the engine and all, but it really is silly especially when you see characters walking in some of the trailers.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em bangs head on desk
They are able to do things in the videos that they can not do in game. Why do people think that a group pf graphic artists and game developers are unable to manipulate a short video enough that it's basically nothing but a short bit of animation?
[/ QUOTE ]
Copied myself to Architect as an enemy group. Got beat up by a bunch of little mes, and guess what they did after that?
They walked!
A player character model, walking!
See for yourself, copy a variety of characters over to MA and drop them into a mission, especially shields characters. I'm sending footage of what I did to youtube.
Yes. Yes they did.
However they only walked forward, not backward, strafing, or otherwise. They did not have a proper animation to go from walk to flight and back. They did not attack or return to the 'original' stance of animation.
Yes. The player model CAN walk in a straight line. Would it be worth it to put it in the player's hands?
The answer is No.
You swould be incapable of performing the other classic actions (walking a step backwards, for example!) strafing, firing attack powers, etc without a severe animation issue.
For the 'Walk' animation to go through each of the varied stances (male, female, huge, ready idle, jump, flight transition up, flight transition down, teleport, attack animation and countless others I'm sure are WAY over my head) dozens of more animations would need to be created. DOZENS.
These Dozens of animations would take days or even weeks to animate individually, playtesting individually, playtesting as a string, closed beta, open beta, bug-removal... And then for what?
So that most players can hit the walk button ONCE and then never use it again.
Yes. Roleplayers would use it constantly during 'scenes' between characters. I'm One of them! I'd LOVE for Cobalt to WALK from one end of the counter to the other end while roleplaying in the base. But it's not going to happen withuot a massive RP-centric paradigm shift.
The Majority of players would never use it beyond once or twice so it's an overall waste of resources. Unless we can convince the other 70% or more of the population to RP constantly: It's prolly not gonna happen.
-Rachel-
Walk doesn't need fight animations...combat should toggle walk off.
I understand that the other animations may not exist. I'm just one of the people who would be satisfied with only one type of walk at all.
[ QUOTE ]
You know what, I was wrong...we actually need 15-90 animations
Walk forward
Walk backward
Walk Strafe-Left
Walk Strafe-Right
Stop walking, transition back to ready
Times 3 for each body type: male, female, and huge
Times 6 for the various 'modes' to both cover the different hand/arm positions and to properly transition back into the appropriate 'ready' stance when you stop walking: Ready, Combat Ready, Weapon Ready, Dual Ready (used by katana and archery as well), 'Shotgun' Ready, and Shield Ready
15-90 animations needed to do a 'walk button'. (Or 105 if we wanted to accomodate the two-handed club stance as well.)
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what Back Alley Brawler himself said. Go off this. Whether or not you'd 'toggle out' of Walk is unimportant. It's still 90-105 animations for something the majority of the player population would never use.
-Rachel-
It's 15 animations, 3 of which ar ein game so that's 12.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's really a silly thing not to be able to do. We can run but we can't walk. I understood where BaBs was coming from with the engine and all, but it really is silly especially when you see characters walking in some of the trailers.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em bangs head on desk
They are able to do things in the videos that they can not do in game. Why do people think that a group pf graphic artists and game developers are unable to manipulate a short video enough that it's basically nothing but a short bit of animation?
[/ QUOTE ]
Keep banging, but I did say I was aware of the limitations, hence I am also aware of the fact that that was just a video animation, but when new players see that, they get in the game and ask "Where's the walk button?". /em Bang Head
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
[ QUOTE ]
Walk forward
Walk backward
Walk Strafe-Left
Walk Strafe-Right
Stop walking, transition back to ready
[/ QUOTE ]
You're missing a crucial one.
Walk like an Egyptian.
You know we need this. We know you want to add it.
*wanders off to listen to The Bangles*
*wanders back*
By the way, BAB, why can Tuatha do the /e drumdance emote and keep walking around, but we can't? How am I supposed to perform my ritual dances if I can't move?
*walks away again, like an Egyptian*
*has Egyptian walk animation interrupted by movement*
*slaps BAB with a large trout*