Villain Guide to easy Strike Force Recipes
By
Antimatter_NA,
Posted on: 2008-08-09 13:22 in Player Guides
i wouldn't hate on the ppl only getting brutes and corrs for LRSF but maybe the devs for not making all AT's valuable for that particular SF. also, if you dislike ppl not picking up your MM for LRSF or whatever, then start your own group for the SF.
me personally i don't like having to many lv 30-31's for KHTFs. they don't have their tier 9 primary, and they arn't slotted well. i usually make my own team with higher lvl ppl 40+. if someone lv 30 asks me if they can join my KHTF team, (depending on the lvls, ATs of the teammates i have now, and the AT of teh lv 30, i may or may not say no). if i say no, don't get pissed at me, go form your own group. but most ppl don't like forming their own group because its too much "legwork"; thats their problem not mine. for me its easy because i have a bind set up to my F2 key, asking in a tell if he wants to join a KHTF team.
QR
Folks, it's a guide. Agree or disagree, there's no need to tear the OP down. He didn't say that Doms or MMs are "gimp", he said they didn't bring speed to the SF. Whether you agree or disagree, that's not an unreasonable opinion.
MMs certainly have a lot of damage and debuffs/buffs, but they do require set up and more maintenance than joe average brute.
Doms are wicked players, played right, but they aren't usually considered the highest DPS.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Still, I did pick up at least some interesting material out of this thread. On a lighter note.
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The best thing about Temporal's threads is the information you pick up from people trying to explain to him why he's wrong. 
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i wouldn't hate on the ppl only getting brutes and corrs for LRSF but maybe the devs for not making all AT's valuable for that particular SF. also, if you dislike ppl not picking up your MM for LRSF or whatever, then start your own group for the SF.
me personally i don't like having to many lv 30-31's for KHTFs. they don't have their tier 9 primary, and they arn't slotted well. i usually make my own team with higher lvl ppl 40+. if someone lv 30 asks me if they can join my KHTF team, (depending on the lvls, ATs of the teammates i have now, and the AT of teh lv 30, i may or may not say no). if i say no, don't get pissed at me, go form your own group. but most ppl don't like forming their own group because its too much "legwork"; thats their problem not mine. for me its easy because i have a bind set up to my F2 key, asking in a tell if he wants to join a KHTF team.
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I run a similar rule with Cap strike forces. They've got to be at least 30+, but I prefer 40+ to ensure they are going to be well slotted once maled down.
I know from experience that filling the team with people under 25 is just asking for trouble, regardless of their class.
I run this SF all the time, with multiple Doms and MMs, or just anyone who can pull their own weight. I usally finish in about an hour, no matter how much "dead weight" I carry. Even without my /Rad Corr, or sometimes without any Corr at all. Either I'm the best Cap SF leader ever, or, far more likely, the SF isn't hard enough to justify black balling so many characters out of.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
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A) Someone who just wants a pat on the head for trying nitpick an otherwise solid guide, for the sake of lacking anything significant to add to the discussion.
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The primary issue people have with your guide is the fact that it's rigid, not solid.
Anyone can writeup a mission walkthru. That doesn't make your guide solid.
Lot's of people can lead a group and get the SF done fast.
Your rules and caveats about teambuidling aren't what make you get done quickly. It's the knowledge of how to get things done that you and your teammates bring to the table.
You just assume because your way works well, that it's somehow superior. All it is is self fulfilling prophecy leading to rigid thinking.
None of your team building rules are germaine to a quality guide. The best guides and methods acknowledge the merits of several approaches, and don't claim superior knowledge.
I keep saying it again and again, and you keep ignoring it. There's more than one way to skin a cat, you don't have the world's best cat skinner here. If you checked your ego at the door instead of trying to prove your way is superior, people would be willing to let you have your say uncountered.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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QR
Folks, it's a guide. Agree or disagree, there's no need to tear the OP down. He didn't say that Doms or MMs are "gimp", he said they didn't bring speed to the SF. Whether you agree or disagree, that's not an unreasonable opinion.
MMs certainly have a lot of damage and debuffs/buffs, but they do require set up and more maintenance than joe average brute.
Doms are wicked players, played right, but they aren't usually considered the highest DPS.
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I'm not tearing him down for anything other than the fact that he thinks he has the fastest way, and that his knowledge is superior enough to exclude alternatives that other people run just as fast or faster every day.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Guides that say "never invite" or "always bring" are [censored].
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All hail the all knowing Lemur.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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QR
Folks, it's a guide. Agree or disagree, there's no need to tear the OP down. He didn't say that Doms or MMs are "gimp", he said they didn't bring speed to the SF. Whether you agree or disagree, that's not an unreasonable opinion.
MMs certainly have a lot of damage and debuffs/buffs, but they do require set up and more maintenance than joe average brute.
Doms are wicked players, played right, but they aren't usually considered the highest DPS.
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We're not tearing the OP down, we're tearing his 'guide' down.
He didn't start out by saying that only high level toons need apply, but it was implied when he talked about going to Ouroboros and using scads of inspirations. And then he admits that he only recruits high level toons because they're more fully slotted. And this is after saying in the OP that the leader should be ready to TP teammates who haven't taken a travel power yet! (!!!)
But if his guide is for a really fast Speed Cap, then it doesn't go all the way. If you want the fast Speed Cap, take four Corrupters and tell the Brutes to stay at home because no one has time to wait for them to build up Fury, which doesn't help at all for all those stealthed missions. The AoEs of the Corrupters with their debuffs can outdamage the Brutes.
Only add players who've six slotted their pre-22 powers with IO Sets.
Only add players who also have full invis and are 4 year Vets with Assemble the Team.
*That* is a fast Speed Cap. Not some half-hearted attempt at part-way efficiency by a misinformed understanding of the ATs of the game. (MMs take time to set up? Brutes take time to build fury! MMs level up as fast as brutes.)
Rather than take our critiques to heart and revising the guide, the OP is obstinant in sticking to it, except in those instances when he contradicts himself.
This ain't a guide. Real guides have correct information and don't contradict themselves.
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This ain't a guide. Real guides have correct information and don't contradict themselves.
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Obviously.
The only reason that a blatantly controversial guide would be posted in general is to start a fight. Success!
Listen to Survival Guide. Because you should!
"You have a mom? I thought you were conceived through pure win?" ~Spinestradamus
"reading ur posts is like reading a stop sign, its red oddly shaped and makes me come to a complete stop...then i go" ~anon rep; thank you
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This ain't a guide. Real guides have correct information and don't contradict themselves.
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Obviously.
The only reason that a blatantly controversial guide would be posted in general is to start a fight. Success!
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I really dont think you can make a guide on "PICK UP GROUPS"
Its a PICK UP GROUP because YOU dont care who joins as long as its fun..
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teammates who haven't taken a travel power yet
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To be fair, many people will delay their travel power to the later levels, losing them if they exemp down, especially with the Safeguard/mayhem temps.
Heck, I was on a TF with a empath with no rez - because she took it at 22 and we were on synapse.
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Meh, might as well just put Temporal on ignore. He's not even amusing these days.
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Meh, might as well just put Temporal on ignore. He's not even amusing these days.
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I hadn't had my turn batting him down. Every forumite gets a turn.
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QR
I am sure the quide as such is great, however I just don't buy that it is necessary to cut so many ATs out.
I know the OP says Pick-Up Groups, but seriously, if the player knows what he is doing then all AT are able to contribute more or less equally. On the other hand you can just as easily get inept corrupter players, who wouldn't contribute half as much as a well-played dom.
This is nothing more than elitist, mis-guided even, of the worst kind.
Main Hero: Flame Blade (Scrapper lvl 50; Katana/Regeneration)
Main Villain: Elenor Seahawk (Mastermind lvl 44; Necromancy/Poison)
My Arcs: #337278: Learning Curve
Fight my Brute: SMASH
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Meh, might as well just put Temporal on ignore. He's not even amusing these days.
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I finally bit the bullet and went with this. Though, we'll see if that carries over when he finally gets enough emo on his new, current name and switches to something else. It'll be an interesting experiment, to say the least. 
Or, it is to me. Someone'll probably spoil it for me, though. No sense of scientific integrity!
(This post brought to you by Coffee.)
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Wrong, the altar's positions are random and so are the spawns.
I use to run through on invis looking for the ones that could be clicked safely, but realized it's faster to just pop purples and superpseed through the whole thing.
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Wrong. The altars are always in exactly the same place (whichever 5 appear out of the possible 9), and the spawns alternate between two defined arrangements. There is only ever 1 possible combination where the result is not being able to click an altar without causing aggro. This is when 1 altar appears in the North East tunnel, and the spawn is right no top of it.
In all other circumstances, you can safetly click without them seeing you (or at least I can, using my Stalker who is about 5'6" tall - not sure about taller characters).
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Certainly not with my method. I use a /rad corruptor as lead, so dominator mitigation is not needed, and their damage in inferior to the alternatives.
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I know lots of Doms who would say that a /rads "mitigation" is not needed on a Cap SF.
If you're talking about generally about PuGs, then the best method is for 1 or 2 people to take the lead and do the work in mishes 2-5.
If you're talking only aobut your sort of PuG where Doms are a hassle, a /Rad Corr leads and only plays in the same way you do, then fine. But then all this guide tells me is what you think the best way is for you to do your Cap SFs, which doesn't help anyone else much 
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
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BTW I've seen Doms stack enough Holds on Bat'zul to hold him almost indefinitely, making defeating me quite easy.
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People who would criticize the guide first ought to have an idea what they are talking about:
The fact is you only need one dom to hold him. Him and Infernal both have very low status protection despite having purple triangles.
So five doms is wasteful overkill.
And you never needed a dom to begin with because corruptors will provides sufficient mitigation/heals for the AV fight on top of having debuffs.
But if you aren't a lead corruptor like myself, you may have no choice but to settle for a dom in the absense of corruptors.
Concidently this is also the only time you'd need to resort to using a mastermind because they bring along the debuff.
The corruptor is a superior invite because they bring both mitigation and debuff into one package, so you don't have to bloat your team up and make things take longer to kill as a result.
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There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.
On the one hand, you want maximum efficiency. Then on the other hand, you use the term "overkill". That's a flat contradiction.
The poster you rpelied to didn't say 5 Doms were required to hold Batz, you deliberately misinterpreted that way. They said you need Doms (plural - no specific quantity given) to hold him almost indefinitely. There's nothing wrong with that statement.
I've known lots of awful Corruptors, and lots of fantastic Doms. You are clearly just grinding a pointless axe for the sake of trolling people who use MMs and Doms.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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I know lots of Doms who would say that a /rads "mitigation" is not needed on a Cap SF.
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But a /rad will, undoubtedly, make the AV die faster.
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I'm not tearing him down for anything other than the fact that he thinks he has the fastest way,
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If you had actually read my guide, instead of just looking for reasons to tear me down, you would have seen I specifically stated that there WERE faster ways to do the Cap SF, but that this was a guide aimed at helping someone regularly run PuG groups reliably at around 40 minutes.
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I specifically said and that his knowledge is superior enough to exclude alternatives
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I never excluded anything. I've encouraged people to post their alternative methods of doing this, but in the cases where they've done so thinking they are trying to disprove the statements of my original guide, I point out why they were either mistaken about the intent of my guide or mistaken about their facts.
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He didn't start out by saying that only high level toons need apply,
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Yes, I did.
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And this is after saying in the OP that the leader should be ready to TP teammates who haven't taken a travel power yet! (!!!)
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This is not a contradiction, only a failing of comprehension on your part - Because not everyone who is high level, especially those who are high level, are guaranteed to have access to their travel powers at level 20. Some didn't take it into account when they respecced, or others made a conscious choice to focus more on fitting in other powers in before 20 and put off a travel power for a few levels (especially common with the mayhem travel powers lasting well into your 20s).
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But if his guide is for a really fast Speed Cap, then it doesn't go all the way.
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I never said it was THE fastest way. Nor even implied it, or intended it. It's one pretty fast way that is very easy to put together at any time of the day.
That's the point of the guide - Finding the most reliable way of achieving the same fast speeds in PuG conditions.
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take four Corrupters and tell the Brutes to stay at home because no one has time to wait for them to build up Fury,
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That's why I said take one brute and two stalkers.
Corruptors, as I already said, are like playing roulette for what they'll have access to at level 20 - You could end up with someone who's got a lot of support, or someone who's got a lot of damage, or someone who really just doesn't function that well at this level period. Brutes and stalkers don't have that kind of variability, making them more consistant PuG choices.
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Only add players who've six slotted their pre-22 powers with IO Sets.
Only add players who also have full invis and are 4 year Vets with Assemble the Team.
blah blah blah
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What you're describing would be ridiculous requirements for doing the TF at the absolute max speed possible, but the requirements for putting that together on a regular basis are too excessive - My guide is the opposite, aimed at doing a fast TF under PuG conditions that can be fulfilled at any time.
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QR
I am sure the quide as such is great, however I just don't buy that it is necessary to cut so many ATs out.
I know the OP says Pick-Up Groups, but seriously, if the player knows what he is doing then all AT are able to contribute more or less equally. On the other hand you can just as easily get inept corrupter players, who wouldn't contribute half as much as a well-played dom.
This is nothing more than elitist, mis-guided even, of the worst kind.
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You're wrong, and I've already explained why, if you cared to read the thread before responding.
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Wrong, the altar's positions are random and so are the spawns.
I use to run through on invis looking for the ones that could be clicked safely, but realized it's faster to just pop purples and superpseed through the whole thing.
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Wrong. The altars are always in exactly the same place (whichever 5 appear out of the possible 9),
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Wrong. They don't.
There are several different patterns that they could be layed out in.
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BTW I've seen Doms stack enough Holds on Bat'zul to hold him almost indefinitely, making defeating me quite easy.
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People who would criticize the guide first ought to have an idea what they are talking about:
The fact is you only need one dom to hold him. Him and Infernal both have very low status protection despite having purple triangles.
So five doms is wasteful overkill.
And you never needed a dom to begin with because corruptors will provides sufficient mitigation/heals for the AV fight on top of having debuffs.
But if you aren't a lead corruptor like myself, you may have no choice but to settle for a dom in the absense of corruptors.
Concidently this is also the only time you'd need to resort to using a mastermind because they bring along the debuff.
The corruptor is a superior invite because they bring both mitigation and debuff into one package, so you don't have to bloat your team up and make things take longer to kill as a result.
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There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.
On the one hand, you want maximum efficiency. Then on the other hand, you use the term "overkill". That's a flat contradiction.
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You need to look up both "efficiency" and "overkill" in the dictionary. They are two contradictory terms.
If you can get something so basic wrong, I won't bother reading the rest of your post.
Do you have a guide for a fast forum name change?
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It's a guide designed to make PuGing the Cap strike force possible for anyone
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OH! It's for everyone. Well, everyone except for MM's and Doms cause LOLZ TH3IR DMG SUXXORZ!
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In terms of getting invites: Yep, it sucks to be you if that's the only toon you have over level 20.
But, of course, there is nothing stopping a dominator or mastermind from actually forming a team and leading it if they have the sufficient stealth/TP skills - In which case this guide will help them recognize their weakenesses and plan around it.
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I also take great issue to the post (sorry, didn't see who said it) that said that the only good secondary that MM's have is /Dark.... has that person every even seen what the rest of MM secondaries do?
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I didn't say it. It's a good idea to actually read a thread before shooting off automatic responses.
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/Traps is amazing, and I'd take a /Traps MM over a /Traps Corruptor any day. The MM can take a hit much better than a Corruptor, and their damage is roughly even. Edge = MM.
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I have a 50 mercs/traps, and I can atest to the fact that you're wrong - A corruptor/traps, a rare as they are, is superior when maled down to level 20.
The main reaon is because the attacks they do have hit a lot harder than what the mastermind has access to offensively at this level (only 3 minions, 1 lt, and tier1 upgrades).
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/Poison is also a set that makes Corruptors cry with their sheer number of ST debuffs.
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First off, you don't NEED debuffs that strong to complete this TF.
Second, the mastermind forums are full of people crying about how underpowered poison is, how they think /dark can do everything just as good but in AoE form. To some extent they are both right and wrong, which is why poison remains virtually unplayed except as a PvP toon.
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Plus, if I remember correctly, Bat'Zul is one of the few AV's that doesn't have the purple triangles, so holding him is piddly easy with just 2 Doms (might be wrong on the # of Doms needed), but with enough debuffs, Doms stacking holds on the AV to perma-hold him, you've got one hell of a PUG team.
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Except you don't NEED to hold him for the brutes to survive.
A corruptor's mitigation is sufficient, and with their debuffs the target will go down faster.
If all you bring is dominators then you might have mitigation covered, but you're going to take a long time to kill both AVs.
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Then I guess it comes down to a matter of personal taste, then, doesn't it? Debuffs vs. Holds as far as Mitigation is concerned.
And in terms of keeping things alive and such, Brutes aren't nearly as good of alpha soakers as MM's due to Bodyguard. Their resistances aren't as strong at level 20 as a MM in BG mode. Plus, the MM has destructible soldiers that are a lot easier to replace than rezzing a team member.
And I wasn't pointing out that YOU said that only /Dark is the worthy secondary for MM's. I said, and I quote "(sorry, didn't see who said it)". So, the part about /Poison and /Traps part, that was more along the lines of responding to that post. Not a Quick Reply to your original post.
I just have a sincere dislike for people who only put together Corruptor/Brute SF's, because people who enjoy playing other AT's are left out in the cold. And while you might not be saying that this is the ONLY way to play (i.e. LRSF, as some people have wrongly pointed out), saying that this is a "guide" is just laughable.
It's hardly a good thing to encourage people to form min/max teams and to exclude people, even if it is in the sake of being the "quickest" way of doing things.
And didn't you just make a post saying you're tired of putting together Cap SF PUG's? If you weren't so picky, then you might be able to put together a team quicker than cherry picking things. Just saying.
Always up for teaming with good players, so hit me up: @Deceivius and @Deceivius2