Discussion: Matrix Machinima Contest

UPDATE:

The good folks over at GameTrailers.com were kind enough to answer about the music thing.

Here's my initial email:

To whom it may concern:

One question that troubles many of the potential entrants to this contest is directly related to our use of audio. Are we allowed to use music that a) we have received copyright permission to use, or b) is royalty-free music that we have access to?

A video with no music tends to be rather lacking, and a lot of us are wanting to know exactly what we can and cannot do. Please do not just point us to the rules and go, "Look there." We have - if we are misunderstanding what is there, please rephrase it - don't just tell us to re-read it.

Thank you on behalf of the CoX Forums (Multimedia community),

Their response:

No, you cannot use that music. Per the rules, if you are using anything other than what was provided as part of the game (music included) it must be wholly original:
"...no element of the Video is copied, derived, translated, adapted or otherwise obtained or copied from anyone or anywhere else, regardless of the source, format or medium..."
If you want to use music, it must be totally original to you.

Thanks.

So now it's official. If you didn't write the music, or you're not using CoX's music, don't use it.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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We are talking about a contest showing our "dark side" that has to do with a game about comic book violence....or did I miss something here?

I mean...the teaser spot shows "violence", "physical injury", "death" (sure doesn't look like that guys being arrested to me!), "implies....conduct that is otherwise unacceptable in reality" (or is joining a street gang considered legal at this point?).
I guess any use of mayhem missions are out as they show damage to property...
I'm not sure how being "dark side" in anyway is "acceptable in reality"...oh, wait...I do see that everyday practically...so maybe it is...but out and out supervilliany I'm assuming...well, maybe not...I've seen that considered acceptable too...
...so as long as it has to do with conspiracies..I guess it's okay...just not talk about bank robbing or flat out...or kidnapping...or....I guess maybe conspiracies are the only thing that is considered "darkside" but acceptable?
Meh....well...I guess we can do something with that...just have to make sure no one is getting attacked in the background while characters talk about conspiracies?
....I guess it is all a Nemsis plot after all...(except on weekend when they don't have enough staff on hand to cover everything...)


[/ QUOTE ]Well, as DR said, you're not completely restricted; even so, you can do some creative stuff without any violence at all. I mean, look at Princess of Dusk by Vertical Studio. I think it would fit the bill for this contest nicely (though probably not a valid entry since it's pre-existing).

If I had any creative talent I'd try joining, but I don't have any, and I can't access the game at the moment for live demorecording, so I'd be limited to creating them by hand. Eeew.

I should point out that the rules in no way exclude NCSoft employees. Toyota and MTV, yes, but not NCSoft!

No. I don't think that is correct.
It is pretty clear. (read the official rules yourself)
It says nothing about the scope of the game.
It's to protect them from liability. The equivalent of the stickers that say not to stick your hand in a lawn mower blade and "don't try this at home kids" - only they don't want that kind of content (apparently).
Remember. It isn't NCSoft's rules.
The rules have nothing to do with the game.
Several people have posted questions about this on the contest forums (www.gametrailers.com) and there has been no official response to the legitimate questions regarding this.
It would be nice if you were the interpreter; however, that's not the case. LightHouse has already pointed out that we need to take it up with them. We have; they haven't responded.

"implies....conduct that is otherwise unacceptable in reality"
This is the one part that really affects the "Dark-side" aspect of this contest.
I didn't see any implied "dark-side" activities in the video that you referred to via your link. Sure there was footage of "bad guys" and CoV places, but anyone that hasn't played the game would know neither fact.
I think we all know what "dark-side" means -- "conduct that is ... unacceptable" aka evil. Unless we are going to say that "dark-side" just means spooky, but I don't think that is the intent.
Watch the teaser. See how they break these rules that they have posted.

Well, I sent them an email to clarify the rules on In-Game violence, property damage and whatnot.

So, hopefully I will get a response soon.

Well, they seemed to reply pretty quickly to me, so hopefully they'll do the same for you, Vorac.

I know that when they responded to my email re: the music, I also mentioned that some of you guys had started a thread on their forums, and asked if someone would respond to the questions brought up there as well.

Michelle
aka
Samurai_ko

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LightHouse has already pointed out that we need to take it up with them. We have; they haven't responded.

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Alt, maybe you didn't understand what Dark_Respite posted. That was a direct email reply from the people running the contest. They HAVE replied, at least on the specific issue of musical content. And the way the phrased their reply seems to cover any form of content in these contest entries. Unless we create it ourselves - whether it be sounds, music, images, whatever - it has to come from CoX. CoX, Original or Nada.

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It says nothing about the scope of the game.

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It says "With the exception of those elements which are contained within the Selected Games..." That sounds like the scope of the game to me.

The GT guy, however, put his own voice into the video. His own voice isn't part of the game. That's why I said his video wouldn't pass lawyer muster.

I'm also interested to know whether creative commons material is permissible. Here is the beginning of the license text (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/):

"You are free:
* to Share — to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work
* to Remix — to make derivative works"

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One of my questions is the same as Star_Dancer's:

Are we allowed to use either a) royalty-free music, or b) music that we have received copyright permission to use?

Other question:

In-game footage? Does this mean demo-recording is out?

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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I am curious if out-of-game elements can be used, such as inserted audio or video clips?

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I am curious if out-of-game elements can be used, such as inserted audio or video clips?

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As long as you made them...as in they're completely original...made by you, then I'm going to go with "Yes". But they're being pretty forceful on this, as in that royalty free clips won't even work. That would also explain the VO in the sample video they provided.

I can almost hear those video processors at work and the charismatic cacophony of mouse clicks and Ctrl-Z's.

LOL - Yep. I was up til 2AM this morning hand-coding a battle scene. Thank God for Zloth's and Balshor's editing tools!

I guess I can only echo what others have stated but the "example" video goes totally against the rules posted!

*"No violence" yet we have a superhero kick a guy in the head and presumably kill him.

*joins soldiers who are gonna "wait for me to fire then go around the back" and "then we'll let 'em have it. This is gonna be awesome!"

*Joins a gang and is then set on fire by a member of that gang!!

I guess "showing your darkside" isn't such a good campaign slogan to pair with CoX. On the other hand, I am happy that CoX is able to participate in this contest.

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It says "With the exception of those elements which are contained within the Selected Games..." That sounds like the scope of the game to me.

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Yep, I see that. It does say "elements", but it is not specific as to the meaning. Is that characters and building or actions? Seems weird to list all the other disclaimers if they are considered acceptable because they are "elements".

True?

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I can almost hear those video processors at work and the charismatic cacophony of mouse clicks and Ctrl-Z's.

[/ QUOTE ]Ehh, haven't started on the game footage yet, trying to finish the base for an effect I am thinking of using.

Here's one for the NCsoft folks. Would it be ok to use the animated NCsoft logo from earlier videos as a part of the opening. Or does that tie these fan videos too closely to an 'officially endorsed' video?

Thanks,
Todd

Just for myself, I include them on virtually every video I do, as a nod to whose game I'm doing a video for. Nine videos in, they've not yet told me to stop.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko

BAh... now people give rats [censored] about machinima. Figures.

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It says "With the exception of those elements which are contained within the Selected Games..." That sounds like the scope of the game to me.

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Yep, I see that. It does say "elements", but it is not specific as to the meaning. Is that characters and building or actions? Seems weird to list all the other disclaimers if they are considered acceptable because they are "elements".

True?

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Well, I would guess 'elements' means any element in the game. But that gets a little fuzzy, too. Say I want to show my character blowing stuff up in Faultline (like the opening of my demo edit promo video). So I put some mayhem objects in there and drop their HP to 0, which makes them blow up. Objects blowing up are elements of the game, Faultline is an element of the game, but objects blowing up in Faultine is NOT a part of the game. So is that legal?

What about a voice-over talking about the violent actions? Even if the violent actions are straight out of normal gameplay, voices certainly are not. So would the voice-over disqualify the vid?? (And, with that self-contradicting first point, heaven only knows what we are supposed to do with NPC chatter.)

It's a pity they don't just use the guidelines. Those make perfect sense. Actually, I haven't noticed anything crazy in the rest of the detailed rulse. It's just that one "follow MTV guidelines" sections that's crazy.

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Actually Slick, after watching the video, I can confirm that, besides the transitions (and the Chinese take-out), that's all based of of in-game elements, either generated live or through a demo.

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They need to turn that talking hand thing into a real emote then. Where does that appear in the game?

On another note, is it me or does it seem a little ironic to be sponsoring a contest about superheroes/supervillains, whose theme is "Bring out your dark side,", and have rules that say you cannot use

<ul type="square">[*] any nudity, profanity or violence;[*] any display of physical injury, death or property damage or conduct or activity that could cause physical injury or property damage or that is reasonably likely to do so;[*] any... content that displays, appears to display, encourages or implies that any activity or conduct that is otherwise unacceptable in reality, has been or could have been involved;[*] any use (or display of use) of equipment, facilities or property... that would reasonably be considered unsafe; [/list]
Kinda lets out doing anything other than standing around talking. My heroes do at least a dozen unsafe things before breakfast...

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What the hell? You can't make a superhero movie without FIGHTING of some sort, especially if it's suppose to be about the darker side of things.

Screw the contest. I'm going to make my awesome movine WITH violence and destruction, and I don't give a damn whether or not they like it now.

Errr, you might want to read more of the topic.

Suppose we are trapped with boilerplate rules that happen to be a catch all for these sort of contests. Only hope that someone from NCsoft can get more specific rules from MTV Networks.

There is a distinct difference between City of and mature themed games on the market. Which I assume is why the rules are stated in the manner that they happen to be in.

When it comes down to it anything can be rejected for any reason. Observational humor anything can be misconstrued. Heck just footage of a character going though Grandville and hearing Recluse’s speech could violate things.

Hope we get some feedback before the contest entry time expires.

Quick Reply:

Not to sound logical or the like, but....if you're partnered in this in any way NCSoft, you should be able to either officially answer these questions that have arisen about a contest you are A PART OF, or at the very least get the answers to these questions.

It seems rather odd to me that you slap your product as the main tool to be used in this contest, but can't seem to answer any of the questions being asked about the official rules?

Am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?

We'll see....