I've noticed this behavior, too, but with an odd twist -- it's usually the mob with a speech who runs.
Seriously, I'm running along the road from the tram to Wentworth's in Steel Canyon with my Scrapper and busting Outcasts and Council. The guy who yelled out 'Beat this guy and you'll be somebody' and took off was pretty funny, but it started to get surreal when mobs were saying things like 'You're looking for a fight? You found one" and "Now I have to hurt you" while they were booking for the hills.
Anybody else noticed that connection, or is it just coincidence?
This increase in running pisses me off on my Rad/Traps Corruptor. It's no so bad with minions and LTs since I can immobilize them easily enough, but Bosses are a pain and EBs are nigh impossible as most of them are essentially immune to slows, immobilizations, and I cannot stack enough holds to stop them from taking off for the hills the moment they get hit with Acid Mortar. 
I'm not getting this behaviour from bosses...but fleeing smallfry is rather annoying, especially on my nin/nin stalker since I really want everything in melee with me. Plus chasing things down often ends up in agro from other spawns. Picking up Soaring Dragon with its knockdown helped, but even so, it's a pain.
It's not much fun.
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I'm not getting this behaviour from bosses...but fleeing smallfry is rather annoying, especially on my nin/nin stalker since I really want everything in melee with me. Plus chasing things down often ends up in agro from other spawns. Picking up Soaring Dragon with its knockdown helped, but even so, it's a pain.
It's not much fun.
[/ QUOTE ]Oh just last night I was on a Deathsurge team with my Ice/Cold Corr, and I was the only person on the team (that I could tell, dunno what the dom was) so my two attacks and my debuff were visibly slowing his speed and recharge to the point he ran into the water away from the area just north of the bridge in northern Cap.
Deathsurge, a GM started to run because his attacks weren't recharging as fast... it's not just limited to minions and Mook Hitmen anymore.
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Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not getting this behaviour from bosses...but fleeing smallfry is rather annoying, especially on my nin/nin stalker since I really want everything in melee with me. Plus chasing things down often ends up in agro from other spawns. Picking up Soaring Dragon with its knockdown helped, but even so, it's a pain.
It's not much fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
I get this on bosses. Freak show bosses, especially with my blaster. If I don't have the Tanks immob'd, and they are out doors they will even run far enough away that they despawn.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
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I didn't used to notice the running away as being a problem because first I rolled up a troller (Elusive) and took her to fifty, and when I wasn't playing her, I was playing my blaster Benny Edison (who's now level 42). So if the mobs ran away at all, I didn't notice much. I mean when you're playing toons with long range powers and little melee, running's not often an issue. Then I rolled up my Scrapper, BreakThrough (upper 40s). Now I have a tank named SuperaDina (15).
Yeah. Mobs run.
This I wouldn't mind too much if it made sense. If you're playing it and you're thinking, "why don't they run? They're getting pounded. I'd run if I were them" and they don't, but then they do run before you even touch them, or just randomly. It's not believable, so it takes one out of the suspension of disbelief thing for a moment. You're reminded that a computer is operating these mobs, and they've been instructed to run either randomly, or due to some weird set of rules that don't make any sense in practice.
I don't mind that they run. It's that I mind they run too often, and with little provocation when they do. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Of course, the alternative is to compete with actual people and go into PVP which I'm very much not interested in. So I guess I can't complain, tho I do.
Oh I forgot to point out the way to overcome this running problem is to make sure your toon is fast. Wasn't a problem with my scrapper cuz I was really trying to role up a "speedster" and scrapper just was the best archetype for that kinda character. He was fast naturally, so even tho the mobs ran, it wasn't often a problem for him.
With SuperaDina (my new Will/Stone tank) it's been harder. Tanks aren't supposed to be fast. The game seems to purposefully slow them down, but I gave her combat jumping and am boosting up her sprint so it's cheaper to use (reducing endurance cost). Now she's almost as fast as most scrappers and can overcome mobs as they run. I also got both Hurdle and Swift which further add to her dexterity. This means I've had to skip some toggle combat powers in the early levels, but toggles are cumbersome before one can get Stamina at level twenty anyway. So it's no great loss.
It's kinda funny actually. Over the time I've played this game I've noticed most players using scrappers as if they were tanks, and often failing. I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm trying to use my tank like a scrapper. Seems to fit her character better. She is a Supa Troll, but she's not as stupid as newly minted male Supa Trolls right after a rave. I don't view the SuperaDina character as someone who just stands there like a wall of pain letting other people clean up around her.
In fact, I think she likes it when they run...
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The game seems to purposefully slow them down,
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Now she's almost as fast as most scrappers
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Tanks have the same base run speed as all other archetypes, hero or villain. The only set that slows your base run speed is Stone Armor, and that is only when using Mud Pots, Rooted, and/or Granite Armor, because they each have a runspeed debuff.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Ok, gotta mention this while the memory is fresh in my scarred mind. Just finished a grinder of a mish vs Crey. The one where you destroy some cryo tubes and Arachnoid Spitters come out of them.
The Crey mobs, ALL of them, were absolutely nuts! Even the Minions were nigh impossible to Immob or Hold with stacked effects. Mobs would fight, get injured, run away and return...all at insane speeds. Not quite SS speed but like a character on Sprint with Swift...through Tar patch, Immobs, Holds, all of it.
This is the worst example of the Run Away portion of the AI I've seen. Worse than the big boss Av in the new ITF. Worse than Nosferatu running laps for 10 minutes. Just crazy.
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I think the run away AI needs to be adjusted slightly so they don't run away quite so much, in particular even con baddies.
I think CoX AI is quite good in general and when you stop and think about it very realistic. For example in other games the instant a baddie sees you they attack. In CoH the baddies have a nice "reaction" AI where it takes them a moment to assess the situation before they attack, run away or whatever.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the run away AI needs to be adjusted slightly so they don't run away quite so much, in particular even con baddies.
I think CoX AI is quite good in general and when you stop and think about it very realistic. For example in other games the instant a baddie sees you they attack. In CoH the baddies have a nice "reaction" AI where it takes them a moment to assess the situation before they attack, run away or whatever.
[/ QUOTE ]The problem is they run away a bit too much. Sure I could group with a dom or troller with an immob or whatever to stop them, but sometimes I want to solo, as do others.
One big complaint I have about scrappers and defenders that use anchors is when mobs outside run away, they tend to have almost perfect pathing AI. It makes doing contact missions a pain when I have to hunt down X number of Y mobs. I've seen +3 Freakshow bosses run from my claws/regen, or a +3 Outcast minion run from my katana/SR. With no real way to stop runners as a melee character with no real control, it gets really annoying really fast.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
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Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
I agree that it's annoying, and I've seen it quite a bit recently. Tho...I can't say that I've seen it now more than I have in the past. It's come to the point where if I walk up to a group of 3 baddies, I expect at least one to bolt.
On the lighter side...sometimes it's very funny. It amuses me greatly to walk up to a group of trolls in Skyway and have one shout "For Grendal!" - then immediately tuck his tail and run like a scalded dog. 
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[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed this behavior, too, but with an odd twist -- it's usually the mob with a speech who runs.
Seriously, I'm running along the road from the tram to Wentworth's in Steel Canyon with my Scrapper and busting Outcasts and Council. The guy who yelled out 'Beat this guy and you'll be somebody' and took off was pretty funny, but it started to get surreal when mobs were saying things like 'You're looking for a fight? You found one" and "Now I have to hurt you" while they were booking for the hills.
Anybody else noticed that connection, or is it just coincidence?
[/ QUOTE ]
I noticed it as well. I found it pretty funny.
On a sidenote, my wife was on a team of 5 against Jurassik, and he kept running from them. They were not doing much damage, he was regenning faster than they were damaging, but he kept running.
Thank you, Champion.
Airman, if the objective is to make certain that badges are earned then there are much easier ways to ensure that: for one, if you aren't within 4 levels of the enemy, then the "defeat" doesn't count for you.
Then you won't get level 5s earning their "defeated 100 Paragon Protectors" and you won't get level 50s street-hunting for Hellions. There will be an outcry, yes, but the solution would work without exception.
I don't know if I'd agree with most of your other suggestions, either. I'll take them one by one, but first, we must define terms. What is "higher level?" At what point do these behaviors kick in? A level 50 against a level 1, I can see that; a level 50 against a level 30? against a level 40?
What if the cutoff is (for instance) 15 levels. What if you've got a level 30 hero, and a bunch of 15s and 16s in combat. Do only half of those enemies vanish?
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1. Spawns automatically surrender.
[/ QUOTE ]
Surrendering will have to be defined and its terms and conditions spelled out before I fully understand this. Do you mean they just put up their hands and despawn instantly, without XP bonus to anybody?
If the enemies were half-defeated already, and a level 50 walks up, do the combatants get rewarded a partial allotment of XP for the work they did?
If an enemy surrenders does this mean it can no longer be targeted by anybody?
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2. Spawns cower in fear.
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I suppose I could get behind this, but it'd be a really cheap way to power-level people. Get a level 50 to stand nearby, and suddenly all enemies cease to attack. Your lowbie buddies can attack with impunity.
If you made it so the Fear breaks the instant a lowbie attacks them, I can get behind this.
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3. Spawns automatically run away, in fear, to the nearest door/tunnel they can find.
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Mmmm... okay. I can see this behavior. It might bog down the server too much if you were to Superspeed through Steel Canyon, dismissing every spawn in the zone, so the question is, can this be done economically without burdening the computer?
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4. Spawns attempt to fight you as best they can.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with this either, but if the objective is to stop the "exploit" of gaining badges without risk, then this doesn't solve that.
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5. Another possibility is that ALL spawns under your level con as 'whites" in difficulty, with no xp/influence awarded however.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would require that an enemy have different effective levels to different people. That level 10 Hellion wouold con +3 red to the level 7 Hero, but giant-monster white to the level 40 standing nearby. I'm not sure the engine would support this.
Was running my AR/Storm Corr last night, and the party was annoyed at things fleeing. Finally one of the Stalkers asks,
"Can't you make the wind blow in the OTHER direction?"
Soft control is tricky to use when things are fleeing, and while I tried orbiting mobs and using gale from the other side to some success, it's just plain awkward when things run away and you have no Controller/Dominator who can or will pin them down.
[ QUOTE ]
Was running my AR/Storm Corr last night, and the party was annoyed at things fleeing. Finally one of the Stalkers asks,
"Can't you make the wind blow in the OTHER direction?"
Soft control is tricky to use when things are fleeing, and while I tried orbiting mobs and using gale from the other side to some success, it's just plain awkward when things run away and you have no Controller/Dominator who can or will pin them down.
[/ QUOTE ]
True. A stalker with knockback abilities can try the same thing, but the problem arrises from too many people trying to keep the vilians there they arent fighting the ones that actually stay
Ok so im not imagining it.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
In the starting areas, Galaxy City, and Atlas Park, I really hate it when the creeps run from my characters, toward the Police Drones, and let the Police Drones take them back to The Zig! In those areas, I discovered a neat trick. If you have a creep that just runs around aggroing other mobs, instead of toward the Police Drones, just wait for the creeps to walk back, then take them out. If they run away again, aggroing more mobs, just wait until they come back, then finish them off.
Try my 3 MArcs: I.D.#67166:Protect the Artifacts!! I.D.#97724:Level-Up Time. I.D.#243803:Witch War! Salem vs. Croatoa!
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If you have a creep that just runs around aggroing other mobs, instead of toward the Police Drones, just wait for the creeps to walk back, then take them out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that runners in coh don't aggro other mobs, unlike some games. The only time a runner will result in more enemies aggroed is if you had some aoe toggle power (rad/dark/storm/sonic/cold) anchored on them, or if you follow them and move into aggro range of the other mob.
What I meant about the creeps that just run around aggroing other mobs, instead of staying to fight you while you take out the creep that stays to fight you, is that the creeps, after running around aggroing other mobs, return to where they ran from. When they return, then you can take them out. If they keep running away and aggroing more mobs every time you attack, they will eventually be killed.
Try my 3 MArcs: I.D.#67166:Protect the Artifacts!! I.D.#97724:Level-Up Time. I.D.#243803:Witch War! Salem vs. Croatoa!
Critters in CoH do not aggro spawns that are not part of their own spawn when they run through/by another spawn, unless they have a player's debuff toggle on them (like Radiation Infection).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I had a level 3 Gravity/Radiation Controller that base teleported to Talos to sell SOs I had stored in the base. I get to the Science Store and there are two Tsoo there, level 27s: a Sorcerer and a Green Ink Man.
The following happens when I decide to attack for a quick deathport out:
1. The Sorcerer TPs away.
2. The Green Ink Man runs up the hill.
3. After 5 misses, Lift hits the GIM and causes him to ragdoll all the way down the hill.
4. GIM gets up, not even looking at me, and runs away again.
5. GIM never looks back/never comes back.
6. The Sorcerer, never TPs back into view... and I find him on top of the Science store... content to sun bathe.
7. I run to the next mob, and almost the same thing happens. After 15 seconds of me chasing the Sorcerer, he stops, punches me twice and drops me.
That was about 18 months ago.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
I had very similar experiences with purple-conning (by maybe about +3 IIRC) Tsoo bosses in talos. Run run run don't look back the gray squishy might get me.
That was a few months back, sometime between issue 11 and 12 I think. I haven't tested it again because, well, they con gray now and I don't have any alts in the right level range.
I think that pretty much confirms that the flee code is seriously broken.
Its funny on my Bane; they try to run away and I just beat them down with my mace