Discussion: Message From Positron 4 Year Anniv!
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2008-04-28 10:08 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I love Matt Miller and the Dev team. I want to say that up front.
Its a great way for NCSoft to increase the pool of available talent and have that talent pay them for the privelege of working for them.
While this has been a LONG read.... I think it is great to have the ability to make our own content.
Being a farmer it would seem a bit tedious to do this. As long as there are "regular" BM runs in our mission tab I would be happy. Limiting anything (drops) for normal mission runs would be a mistake. This would of couse include the BM, Demon, & Derek farm mishs)
If anything it will allow farmers to see more than farming and accually test their skills elsewhere in the game.
I have heard rumor of limiting the self created missions to 4 per week to stop farmers. If true, I think they should find a way to limit the "Outdoor" mishs themselves and not the putting a cap on the total. Being that farm runs are mainly "Outdoor" for mapping purposes.
Forgive me if I am way off, the ideas in I12 seems good and I am looking forward to it too!
Thanks,
Jess
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Similar in concept to our character creator, it allows you, the players, to create missions and story arcs for your characters and others to participate in. Youll be able to pick the map, villain group, and objectives, as well as write the dialog and any clues needed for the missions. When you are satisfied with it, you can upload it and have other players across all servers play it and rate it. Fame will come to the players whose stories rate the best overall.
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This will rock. I have more than ten years experience writing modules for Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures, a 1983 vintage game that let you design AD&D adventures. I still play that game from time to time. I've also done some tinkering with Neverwinter Nights. I am ready for this.
Questions - will we be able to include named characters and customized bosses? Will we be able to use existing NPCs, or create new NPCs? or create NPCs based on our own characters? Will we be able to create cutscenes?
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
all I want is the ability to put in complications already existing:
patrols (set number...or number per floor)
ambushes (set number...harder to control since they tend to charge straight forward)
waves (set number and trigger)
destructible objects, especially destructible objects that explode for damage...
and also be able to set the type of mob of a named enemy....
I don't want to run a council mission where I'm writing a story about a warwolf's plot only to have the main villain be randomly determined to be a vampyr rather than the warwolf the storyline says he is.
Also, I hope to be able to put multiple enemy groups into one mission. And set whether there are ambushes between missions or not.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Can't go through? There's a couple maps with unreachable locations, for NPCs that can't fly or teleport. Can't shoot through? None.
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There are? Which ones? I've seen them reach everywhere using Super Leap, and I can't think of any where they wouldn't reach without it save the open maps where you can fly up to the map's ceiling like Shadow Shard maps, or outside city maps.
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We'll only be able to create the same type of missions that are already in the game. The cool thing about this system is that we can weave our own stories around them!
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As shallow as what's being described, that could lead to a lot of customizing that asks a lot of questions. Hearing about making our own missions makes my imagination run wild with possibilities. Imagine making a storyarc based on the old Blue King comics of CoH! Or maybe find a way to explore the Top Cow arcs that aren't in the game, like The Crash.
Even with limited options for customizing, things can get really inventive and detailed; look at some of the SG Bases people have made (even without using the floating item bug) and the base builder is pretty bare bones.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
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If we can do cutscenes...
"Stan and Lou: the Mission."
That is all.
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I am so there for that.
<---- big Stan and Lou fan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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indeed....there's a lot of space in the phrase "only create the kind of missions we already have"
there is actually a good variety of missions, unfortunately, the best and most challenging rarely appear save for more recent storyarchs
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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If we can do cutscenes...
"Stan and Lou: the Mission."
That is all.
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I am so there for that.
<---- big Stan and Lou fan
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You mean stan lee? the marvel maker? 
There's 4 kinds of smarts. Street smarts, brain smarts, survival smarts, profession smarts, and Me.
I'm sure this question has been asked before but I can't seem to find it in all this mess. :X
Idea:
Is there a (possible) way to make your own Arch Villains/Elite Bosses to stick in the maps as well? It would be really neat. Since we can put in our own dialogue, map, etc.
So, why not unique villains?
It would make having Arch Nemesis much more real. I think it would be a plus for alot of players and add a real nice touch to the missions!
I would love for someone to play one of my missions and say: Wow, their Arch Villain is...sweet!
Anyways.
Just throwing that out there.
Would love to see it in-game!
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indeed....there's a lot of space in the phrase "only create the kind of missions we already have"
there is actually a good variety of missions, unfortunately, the best and most challenging rarely appear save for more recent storyarchs
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Absolutely! I didn't mean to imply that the new system was going to be gimped. Only that some of the ideas or theories put forth here are...a bit extreme.
I imagine that we'll be able to create pretty-much any kind of mission that's already in the game, or new missions using bits and pieces from different missions already in the game.
I was mainly trying to address things like making tiny doors, making rooms with wall to wall enemies, etc.
It sounds like it will be quite versatile, I just want people to remember that there will be logical and practical limits to what they'll be able to do.
If done right, this feature will be a lot of fun, and really boost the game.
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Will this Mission Creator allow PvP in the missions? I would love to be able to create a mission where my friends could to try to thwart me ala safeguard missions but with PvP.
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Me too. This is a key question and I'm sure hoping to see an answer.
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Even with limited options for customizing, things can get really inventive and detailed; look at some of the SG Bases people have made (even without using the floating item bug) and the base builder is pretty bare bones.
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You aren't even going to get that much customization. You're going to get a list of predefined maps and you're going to pick one. Then you go to the next step. Nothing that Positron said has indicated that you will get to customize it in any way, and way he did say pretty much rules it out completely.
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I'm sure this question has been asked before but I can't seem to find it in all this mess. :X
Idea:
Is there a (possible) way to make your own Arch Villains/Elite Bosses to stick in the maps as well? It would be really neat. Since we can put in our own dialogue, map, etc.
So, why not unique villains?
It would make having Arch Nemesis much more real. I think it would be a plus for alot of players and add a real nice touch to the missions!
I would love for someone to play one of my missions and say: Wow, their Arch Villain is...sweet!
Anyways.
Just throwing that out there.
Would love to see it in-game!
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Well...
If you read what Positron said, then you know exactly as much as everyone else at this point.
All else is speculation and/or wishful thinking at this point.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Even with limited options for customizing, things can get really inventive and detailed; look at some of the SG Bases people have made (even without using the floating item bug) and the base builder is pretty bare bones.
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You aren't even going to get that much customization. You're going to get a list of predefined maps and you're going to pick one. Then you go to the next step. Nothing that Positron said has indicated that you will get to customize it in any way, and way he did say pretty much rules it out completely.
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Actually, he said we'll be able to write dialogue. Which means we should be able to connect to a specific enemy and write words for them.
However, I have to say: devs: after doing this, you BETTER give us the ability to add surprises like ambushes and the like
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Even with limited options for customizing, things can get really inventive and detailed; look at some of the SG Bases people have made (even without using the floating item bug) and the base builder is pretty bare bones.
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You aren't even going to get that much customization. You're going to get a list of predefined maps and you're going to pick one. Then you go to the next step. Nothing that Positron said has indicated that you will get to customize it in any way, and way he did say pretty much rules it out completely.
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Actually, he said we'll be able to write dialogue. Which means we should be able to connect to a specific enemy and write words for them.
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Which has what to do with customizing maps?
People keep talking about arranging spawn points and spawn size and having a base-editor-like tool for making your own map...it just is not going to happen that way.
You'll pick a map, with a pre-defined layout (Or at best one of several random pre-defined layouts) - said layout will include a number of pre-defined spawn points, glowie points Boss Spawn points, etc.
There may be some randomization in which spawn points are activated in any given mission, but the idea that you're going to go in and be able to select everything and customize the map itself is just ridiculous. The time needed to deal with potential exploits would push this feature into the same category as Power Customization.
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... the idea that you're going to go in and be able to select everything and customize the map itself is just ridiculous. The time needed to deal with potential exploits would push this feature into the same category as Power Customization.
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Perhaps not. How about the simple expedient of not initially allowing Exp, Debt, and drops (insperations or otherwise) on user-designed scenarios? Or, if that is a bit too extreme, implementing a "Rikti Invasion" setting limiting the experience, debt, etc., similar to what you get fighting the Rikti hords during a zone invasion? As I recall, that equates to minimal experience, no debt, and only lowest level drops (I'm sure the 'number crunchers' out there could give more precise figures, but you get the jist of it.)
Posi said that folks could play and vote for favorite scenarios. Perhaps those scenarios at the top rungs could be vetted by the developers and have the "normal" setting restored as part of the incentive to build non-borked, non-exploitive missions in hopes of winning the "prize" of having your mission moved to that next level?
Since the "Rikti invasion code" is already tested and implemented, it shouldn't take as much effort to overlay the new user-missions with it (or a customized version if needed) as it would to create an entirely new set of precautions to prevent exploiting the missions.
Even with the limited tangible rewards, the user-designed items would likely still be popular from a role playing, content perspective. (Though, admittedly, likely not so popular as if they were fully enabled.)
Frankly though, the assertions of what "can't" or "Won't" be in this new feature are pretty much as valid/invalid as those of folks who assert certain functions "Must" or "will"; all we have is what was in the interview's statements, and anything outside of that is pure speculation, no matter what direction its bias.
We are not old, so long as we continue to chase our dreams.
Yeah, I agree with Talking_Monkey. People need to scale back their expectations. Maybe in the future, we will get to play with some sort of map editor and place spawn points and do cool things.
But for now, we will just pick pre-defined maps, pre-defined enemies, and pre-defined objectives. The only customization will be in writing npc dialogue and mission briefing/de-briefings. That still gives a bit of room for great story development, especially for those wanting missions and arcs specific to their character's origins and background.
But this does not preclude us getting the fancy stuff later. Just not at this time. Have patience.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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Yeah, I agree with Talking_Monkey. People need to scale back their expectations. Maybe in the future, we will get to play with some sort of map editor and place spawn points and do cool things.
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Editing spawn points? I wouldn't even get my hopes up that much; those are tied to the map segments.
If anything, I'd expect a base-style mission editor, where you can grab large rooms and plunk them down in some configuration. Hallway T branch here, Warehouse room here, Conveyor Belt room here. And that'd be about the limit of the customization I would hope for in my wildest dreams.
Actually placing the glowies and putting the hostages where you want them? I highly doubt it: you'd end up with missions that are 10,000 XP per glowie, ten of them, stacked right inside the mission door.
Actually placing the spawn points? You'd end up with missions of dozens of Easiest Thing to Herd standing in clusters of 17. And they'd be casting -Perception powers on each other. Standing next to Blue COT Crystals.
I agree: don't count on being able to design the specific location of mission items any time soon, if ever. If it doesn't happen you won't be disappointed; and if it does, you can be pleasantly surprised. It never ceases to amaze me how many players accuse the developers of "betraying them" when what happened, in truth, was that the player himself imagined something so amazing that it couldn't possibly be delivered outside the Penthouse letters.
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Yeah, I agree with Talking_Monkey. People need to scale back their expectations. Maybe in the future, we will get to play with some sort of map editor and place spawn points and do cool things.
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Editing spawn points? I wouldn't even get my hopes up that much; those are tied to the map segments.
If anything, I'd expect a base-style mission editor, where you can grab large rooms and plunk them down in some configuration. Hallway T branch here, Warehouse room here, Conveyor Belt room here. And that'd be about the limit of the customization I would hope for in my wildest dreams.
Actually placing the glowies and putting the hostages where you want them? I highly doubt it: you'd end up with missions that are 10,000 XP per glowie, ten of them, stacked right inside the mission door.
Actually placing the spawn points? You'd end up with missions of dozens of Easiest Thing to Herd standing in clusters of 17. And they'd be casting -Perception powers on each other. Standing next to Blue COT Crystals.
I agree: don't count on being able to design the specific location of mission items any time soon, if ever. If it doesn't happen you won't be disappointed; and if it does, you can be pleasantly surprised. It never ceases to amaze me how many players accuse the developers of "betraying them" when what happened, in truth, was that the player himself imagined something so amazing that it couldn't possibly be delivered outside the Penthouse letters.
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I have to agree with you. I was thinking more along the lines of placing the end boss, but you bring up great points.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
I have no expectation to edit spawn points, but I'd like to see:
Map Tileset: Labs
Floors: 3
Floorplan 1: medium
Floorplan 2: small
Floorplan 3: huge
Primary Enemy: Crey
Patrols: Yes
Floor 1: 2 (Devouring Earth)
Floor 2: 1 (Devouring Earth)
Floor 3: 4 (Devouring Earth)
and so on....probably a bit simpler than that, but that's not all that complex itself...
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Player created content... hrm, I seem to recall someone suggesting CoH should add this. Someone that got shouted down by forum trolls, that player created content would never work. Funny how things change. =)
Any timetable for this? Not that I'm trying to rush... I'm just naturally impatient.
I think it is safe to say that no recent announcement regarding City of Heroes/City of Villains has provoked greater interest than Positrons 4th Anniversary State of the Game comments on mission customization. User-generated content for the CoX franchise would provide a wealth of new experiences to explore in-game. That being said, what are the practical limits of dropping a mission editor feature into the game? As Im sure Positron already has a fairly comprehensive design document in his hands for this feature, I ask the following questions to provide both the developers and the CoX community with a platform to clarify the many issues involved with allowing custom-made missions into the game.
1) Will the mission editor feature be a paid expansion similar to the Spring Fling Wedding Pack? (If not, will it be the major feature of a future expansion issue? If so, possibly Issue 13? Or more likely Issue 14? Issue 15?)
2) How will the mission editor for custom-made missions be accessed? (Through a new contact at the university? Through (the currently under-utilized) supergroup base computers? Through the arena kiosks (if custom-made missions are going to be promoted as being akin to training exercises)? Through some new dynamic yet to be introduced into the game, a la Newspaper/Police Scanner missions?)
3) Will custom-made missions be treated as part of CoX lore? (Obviously not core canon, but at least as real stories, as opposed to Danger Room simulations?)
4) Will custom-made missions be for XP? (If, as widely expected, custom-made missions WONT be for XP or influence/infamy (to prevent farming) what incentives will players have to team for story arcs where only the mission-holder can speak to the contact? Will custom-made missions be farmable for badge requirements?)
5) How will custom-made missions be shared among the community? (Will they be downloaded to a single server (similar to the mechanic behind Wentworths and the Black Market) and then broadly accessed cross-server? Or will access within the game be limited to something as narrow as even a per account holder basis?)
6) How will custom-made missions shared amongst the community be policed for content/quality? (Assuming mission customization will involve more than just the choose villain group/choose tile set/choose map/choose mission objective template, how will custom-made missions be censored for objectionable content? Overall, what safeguards will be put into place to prevent the CoX servers from becoming cluttered with randomly-named junk missions, or worse, junk storyarcs?)
7) Within the choose villain group/choose tile set/choose map/choose mission objective template, will there be a good variety of villain groups, minions, lieutenants, bosses, elite bosses, and even arch-villains to load into custom-made missions? (Will there be any villain groups (especially arch-villain NPCs) automatically excluded from custom-made missions? Will there be any new villain groups (perhaps exclusive content) dropped into the mission editor feature? Will there be any new tile sets? Will mission customization allow mixing-and-matching villain groups with tile sets and maps where they wouldnt normally appear, such as Clockwork on Rikti maps, or Trolls on Roman maps? What about loading villains into unique maps, such as the outdoor maps used for Safeguard/Mayhem Missions, or Board Train missions? Will the potential exist for naming generic NPCs within the confines of custom-made missions, such as hostages and/or bosses? Will the potential exist for even creating NPCs within the confines of custom-made missions, a la the costume editor interface at Icon and the Facemaker?)
Within two days of Positrons comments on mission customization being made back in April, there was a thread with 36 pages of speculation regarding the vast potential of custom-made missions to expand the CoX game experience. It is obvious to me that we will never see custom-made missions that allow things like outdoor ambush spawns, but other than that, what ARE the practical limits of introducing a mission editor feature into this game we all love?
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Player created content... hrm, I seem to recall someone suggesting CoH should add this. Someone that got shouted down by forum trolls, that player created content would never work. Funny how things change. =)
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Actually I remember a big flame war being that player content would only lead to in game PvP like other MMOs
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I cant tell you how excited I am for our games future, and although we have some major announcements yet to be made, one of the things I can talk about is a feature that we are planning. Similar in concept to our character creator, it allows you, the players, to create missions and story arcs for your characters and others to participate in. Youll be able to pick the map, villain group, and objectives, as well as write the dialog and any clues needed for the missions.
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I honestly don't get where many of you are getting your ideas. I'll repeat again for emphasis what Posi said about this:
"Youll be able to pick the map, villain group, and objectives, as well as write the dialog and any clues needed for the missions. When you are satisfied with it, you can upload it and have other players across all servers play it and rate it."
All we'll be doing is (using drop-down lists or similar, I imagine) selecting an already existing map, selecting one or more already existing enemy groups (N.B. He didn't say numbers of mobs, just type!) and selecting from a list of objectives.
Also note the second part of the quote:
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When you are satisfied with it, you can upload it and have other players across all servers play it and rate it.[/b] Fame will come to the players whose stories rate the best overall. It is features like these that we never dreamed of including when we first shipped, but are excited to be able to offer players very soon.
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Nowhere does he mention them being approved by the devs. With the above choices being the only ones available, there's no need. The only thing that people can exploit would be language, and I imagine that that will come out in the player ratings of each mission/arc. Possibly they will then delete those offending missions. That he doesn't say.
We'll only be able to create the same type of missions that are already in the game. The cool thing about this system is that we can weave our own stories around them!