How to complain

Gelu_Procellus · 03-31-2008 11:19 AM

Or: How to make friends, influence Developers (and maybe get invited to a closed beta )

In light of the recent hubbub about Powerset Proliferation it made me realize that some people just simply do not know how to complain. They're either rude, insulting and conspiracy-minded or they do not offer any sort of input on how to make something better.

Full disclosure: I started playing this game in August of last year, just before or just after Issue 10. I didn't go through ED or GDN or any of the other changes that some of you went through. Maybe if I had I'd have a different view of the goings on here. Anyways, here goes:

1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Politeness costs nothing but can get you everything. Just because a Dev makes a boneheaded (to us) decision is no reason to question his/her thought processes, intelligence, gender traits, and/or recreational activities with pets.

Just the simple act of being nice when you are stating an issue gets you more likely to be looked at than some mouthbreather spluttering away with some of the "best" invective he can come up with.

It gets tough to remember that we're dealing with human beings on the other end of the internets and I myself have been guilty of making personal remarks that I shouldn't have. We should be better than that.

Don't make remarks over the internet that you wouldn't make in person. And if you would make those types of remarks in person, draw a circle around your feet and fix everything in the circle before coming back to these forums.

2- The Developers are not Supermen (despite playing one on a video game)

The Devs are human beings. They are not omniscient god-men/women that see beyond the horizon into realms unknown. They are flawed people doing the best they know how to try and please the greatest number of people. They'll mess up, make mistakes, and screw the pooch occasionally. Our responsibility is to let them know, in the most constructive way possible, when the mess up.

3- Get some perspective.

We're playing a video game on a computer over a world-wide information net from home with people across the country and across the world. Think about that. We have it so good that we can fart around on the computer and not worry about starving to death.

We were clearing houses in Asadabad, Afghanistan (NE Afghanistan near the Paki border). We were in a house that had a hole in the floor of the kitchen. Figuring it would be a great place to hide weapons we checked it out. Do you know what was in the hole? Feces, human feces. The family went No. 2 in their kitchen because that was the fuel that they used to light their cooking fire. We didn't immediately smell it because they had all kinds of animals in the house with them. I think about that every time I get angry or frustrated with something that happens to me. Trust me it helps.

4- ALL CAPS

Don't write in ALL CAPS. It makes you look like a moron. In novels they use ALL CAPS to show you how annoying a sound is such as alarms or crazy people screaming at the top of their lungs. Use italics or [/b]bold[/b], instead. Bold makes you look like a virile stud that can lift Volkswagens over your head. Italics makes you look like a genius thats only a few days away from curing cancer or AIDS. If you use both bold and italics, well, there are no words for how awesome you would be.

Using ALL CAPS in an ironic fashion is, of course, ok.

5- speling, Grammer (and punkchooashun).

Now, in no way am I a grammar Nazi. Most here are not, either. Just take a couple moments to make sure that you didn't spell anything too jacked up. It makes you look as though you took the time to make sure that your point comes across rather than jabbing at your keyboard with your one good finger while picking your nose with the other hand. This leads me to my next point-

6- Paragraphs.

Use them. Split your posts up a little. If you ever want to "win" an online debate just throw down your "Wall of Text" card (2 white, 2 generic 0/7 and makes owner immune to trample damage). You'll definitely get the last word in (and a hearty chuckle as you can watch your opponent's eyes glaze over). But your post won't get read. Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?

7- Offer solutions.

In the words of an old Platoon Sergeant, "If you have a complaint, make a suggestion. Otherwise it's just complaining." He used more colorful language than that, of course, but you get the gist.

"But we have offered solutions," you say, "They devs just aren't listening to us." Funny you should that. That leads me into the next two points.

8- Patience is a virtue.

But getting stuff right now is more fun. I'm sure if Castle, BAB and the rest could wave a magic wand and fix all of the bugs, issues, and everything else we complain about they would. Unfortunately the only place magic wands exist is inside the games we play (and some decent novels).

The fact of the matter is that I have no idea how difficult or complex making a game is. But, I do have an idea how potentially a pain in the butt some of those fixes can be. When dealing with military software, you'll occasionally get a fix for a bug in the program. Once you install it you'll find out that the patch broke two other things that worked just fine before. It makes you wonder if they do it on purpose or not. And that's for something that I don't pay for and I'm forced to use. I couldn't imagine having to deal with that for something I pay for and use for fun!

9- Conspiracy theories

Let's drop them, ok? The devs don't want you to stop playing the game (they'll be out of a job). They don't hate villains. They don't sit around lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills laughing at what rubes we all are (they light them with 20 dollar bills and then only chuckle).

All I know is that if you were to accuse me of some or all of those things I'd add you to my ignore list too. Again, that would be self-defeating, wouldn't it?

10- This is our community! And by extention, our game.

Like it says above, this is our community. Whether its a good or bad community is the result of our actions, individually and taken as a whole. Lets start taking a more active role to ensure the game takes the direction that we the customers want it to take. There are right ways to do that and I ennumerated only a few.

mousedroid · 04-01-2008 09:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless they are fruit flies, which experiments have shown prefer red wine vinegar to honey.

(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon

LostHalo · 04-01-2008 09:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless they are fruit flies, which experiments have shown prefer red wine vinegar to honey.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll admit it. That made me laugh.

Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

Umbramancer · 04-01-2008 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless they are fruit flies, which experiments have shown prefer red wine vinegar to honey.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll admit it. That made me laugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah, fruit flies don't count. Have to scare the stupid things away from my rice and pickled ginger every day. They just can't tell the difference between vinegar and honey.

On topic, I'm glad someone finally coalesced this good advice all into one spot. It remains to be seen whether it will stick with many who need it (signs point to no), but I'm willing to be optimistic.

Medic_brietz · 04-05-2008 10:04 PM

"Wall of Text" card (2 white, 2 generic 0/7 and makes owner immune to trample damage).

I loved the MtG reference.
I could tell your military, like myself, all the way. we are the only ones who say "jacked up" and even so much as mention plt. sgt's.

This guide is made of win, is NOT 8 up, and makes me wanna say "changeeeeover!, switch!!!"

Crime_of_Fashion · 04-06-2008 12:33 AM

I'm a man and I still want to have your babies Gelu_procellus

Bitter, sarcastic, gun toting, jaded babies, by the thousands.

Crime of Fashion Level 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter
My Toons
My Rad/Rad Corrupters Guide
Mindscape - Reworking

DaemonHeld · 04-06-2008 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't make remarks over the internet that you wouldn't make in person. And if you would make those types of remarks in person, draw a circle around your feet and fix everything in the circle before coming back to these forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

/win

If only people would actually do what you have so nicely written here.

Good for a laugh, for sure, but dayum! So true!

Peace

Sharing kindness is kindness doubled; a burden shared is a burden halved...

I am not bigoted for race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or age... I do, however, have a big problem with stupidity, and stupidity knows no boundaries.

Brawlnstein · 04-07-2008 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless they are fruit flies, which experiments have shown prefer red wine vinegar to honey.

[/ QUOTE ]

They did indeed prefer it, but did NOT tend to get stuck in it's less viscous and more oily constituency.
An important difference when trying to CATCH more flies with honey vs. vinegar!

Hallowed · 04-11-2008 06:58 AM

Fantastic post...

That will unfortunately most likely get ignored by those best served to read it and take it to heart.

ZephyrWind · 04-11-2008 07:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
*snip* throw down your "Wall of Text" card (2 white, 2 generic 0/7 and makes owner immune to trample damage).

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, this made me lol. Great post, this is going in my sig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike

English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.

ShadeBot · 04-11-2008 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1- You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless they are fruit flies, which experiments have shown prefer red wine vinegar to honey.

[/ QUOTE ]
OMG!!!!

DumpleBerry · 04-11-2008 10:09 AM

Great post!

There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

gilmandor · 04-11-2008 11:13 AM

Great post, so true, so true.

I wrote a post very similar to this in a thread, and I was called a jackhoffe for it.

The problem is that the only people that will read this and understand it are the ones that don't really need to read it in the first place. The ones that need to read it call you a jackhoffe.

But the comment on drawing a circle around your feet is priceless.

Wage_Slave · 04-11-2008 12:22 PM

This is an absolutely wonderful guide, and I agree whole heartedly. I think people should take it into consideration when complaining about their favored AT isn't performing the way it did before ED came along.
And a side note on that; I really did like perma hasten, it was really nice on my blaster that I had then, but times change and theres been a lot done now that totally rocks my socks off. Granted yes there is a lot that could be done to fix things like defense, which needs some work to be viable in PVP however I do not entirely understand how defense works so ill refrain from commenting on that.
And now
my 2/7 Wall of Lorem Ipsum
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Cras massa nisi, gravida id, ullamcorper in, consectetuer vitae, libero. Nulla dui est, vulputate a, dictum et, ornare sit amet, nunc. Ut tempus felis vitae velit. Etiam non dolor. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et lorem. Nullam mi tellus, vestibulum at, ultrices non, sollicitudin vel, quam. Nulla in diam. Fusce hendrerit purus nec est. Vivamus ut lectus nec quam accumsan scelerisque. Praesent imperdiet. Curabitur suscipit. Etiam nec lorem. Cras viverra, neque at ullamcorper dignissim, enim enim iaculis erat, vitae aliquet arcu eros sed dui. Ut ultrices, augue eu feugiat aliquet, libero leo faucibus purus, eu consequat tortor mauris nec velit. Pellentesque lacus felis, rutrum eu, convallis a, accumsan porta, quam. Suspendisse tincidunt metus. Maecenas metus. Vivamus quis tellus a purus convallis eleifend. Proin augue justo, ornare vitae, iaculis in, semper vel, mauris. Nulla nulla. Proin elit elit, bibendum eu, interdum at, fringilla non, ligula. Aenean nisl. Curabitur vitae erat. Aenean vitae tellus a elit venenatis ultrices. Ut tortor. Cras vestibulum viverra purus. Suspendisse potenti. Sed sodales leo in libero. Maecenas ipsum. Nunc arcu nibh, vulputate sit amet, ultricies faucibus, dignissim a, turpis. Quisque nulla tellus, iaculis ac, consequat ac, scelerisque in, tellus. Suspendisse dui nisi, auctor a, convallis tincidunt, laoreet eget, nunc. Mauris lacinia, nisl nec faucibus ultricies, urna felis rutrum lectus, at pulvinar velit sem quis sapien. Donec sit amet libero ut lacus commodo suscipit. Morbi faucibus fringilla nisl. Fusce quis sem ut eros facilisis dignissim. Sed cursus commodo massa. Nam pretium odio non urna. Aenean vehicula sapien eget arcu. Nullam aliquet felis eu quam. Ut dignissim lectus ac dolor. Fusce tempus. Maecenas et mauris. Curabitur volutpat mauris eu mi. Maecenas ornare. Proin id felis sit amet lorem viverra suscipit. Morbi laoreet, velit eget molestie consequat, ligula magna bibendum augue, at dictum ipsum tellus vel libero. In vel nisl non dolor egestas ultricies. Phasellus ornare sagittis magna. Nam quam magna, luctus ultricies, porta ac, vulputate ut, urna. Duis tristique augue eu orci elementum fringilla. Praesent venenatis urna sed metus. Nunc pulvinar felis eget arcu. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Vestibulum non metus hendrerit dolor tempor dictum. Ut eu leo at purus pretium laoreet. Donec ligula. Sed aliquam. Nullam mattis ultricies mauris. Nam odio. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Cras massa nisi, gravida id, ullamcorper in, consectetuer vitae, libero. Nulla dui est, vulputate a, dictum et, ornare sit amet, nunc. Ut tempus felis vitae velit. Etiam non dolor. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et lorem. Nullam mi tellus, vestibulum at, ultrices non, sollicitudin vel, quam. Nulla in diam. Fusce hendrerit purus nec est. Vivamus ut lectus nec quam accumsan scelerisque. Praesent imperdiet. Curabitur suscipit. Etiam nec lorem. Cras viverra, neque at ullamcorper dignissim, enim enim iaculis erat, vitae aliquet arcu eros sed dui. Ut ultrices, augue eu feugiat aliquet, libero leo faucibus purus, eu consequat tortor mauris nec velit. Pellentesque lacus felis, rutrum eu, convallis a, accumsan porta, quam. Suspendisse tincidunt metus. Maecenas metus. Vivamus quis tellus a purus convallis eleifend. Proin augue justo, ornare vitae, iaculis in, semper vel, mauris. Nulla nulla. Proin elit elit, bibendum eu, interdum at, fringilla non, ligula. Aenean nisl. Curabitur vitae erat. Aenean vitae tellus a elit venenatis ultrices. Ut tortor. Cras vestibulum viverra purus. Suspendisse potenti. Sed sodales leo in libero. Maecenas ipsum. Nunc arcu nibh, vulputate sit amet, ultricies faucibus, dignissim a, turpis. Quisque nulla tellus, iaculis ac, consequat ac, scelerisque in, tellus. Suspendisse dui nisi, auctor a, convallis tincidunt, laoreet eget, nunc. Mauris lacinia, nisl nec faucibus ultricies, urna felis rutrum lectus, at pulvinar velit sem quis sapien. Donec sit amet libero ut lacus commodo suscipit. Morbi faucibus fringilla nisl. Fusce quis sem ut eros facilisis dignissim. Sed cursus commodo massa. Nam pretium odio non urna. Aenean vehicula sapien eget arcu. Nullam aliquet felis eu quam. Ut dignissim lectus ac dolor. Fusce tempus. Maecenas et mauris. Curabitur volutpat mauris eu mi. Maecenas ornare. Proin id felis sit amet lorem viverra suscipit. Morbi laoreet, velit eget molestie consequat, ligula magna bibendum augue, at dictum ipsum tellus vel libero. In vel nisl non dolor egestas ultricies. Phasellus ornare sagittis magna. Nam quam magna, luctus ultricies, porta ac, vulputate ut, urna. Duis tristique augue eu orci elementum fringilla. Praesent venenatis urna sed metus. Nunc pulvinar felis eget arcu. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Vestibulum non metus hendrerit dolor tempor dictum. Ut eu leo at purus pretium laoreet. Donec ligula. Sed aliquam. Nullam mattis ultricies mauris. Nam odio.

Fire_Storm · 04-11-2008 12:26 PM

Can we get this stickied in all the major threads?

After certain things, like ED, etc, then now approaching 2 years of positive change, with a staff of something like ludicrous like 15, I think it is time really try to change the way community reacts to the game in general. The community basically needs to grow the [censored] up.

You make the whole point of what being "civilized" is in you post.

gilmandor · 04-11-2008 03:11 PM

I just had an Idea. When ever someone sets up an account, they are forced to read this several times, before they can ever post, and after every one hundred post, you are forced to read it again as a reminder. It would never happen, but it might help

Medic_brietz · 04-11-2008 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is an absolutely wonderful guide, and I agree whole heartedly. I think people should take it into consideration when complaining about their favored AT isn't performing the way it did before ED came along.
And a side note on that; I really did like perma hasten, it was really nice on my blaster that I had then, but times change and theres been a lot done now that totally rocks my socks off. Granted yes there is a lot that could be done to fix things like defense, which needs some work to be viable in PVP however I do not entirely understand how defense works so ill refrain from commenting on that.
And now
my 2/7 Wall of Lorem Ipsum
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Cras massa nisi, gravida id, ullamcorper in, consectetuer vitae, libero. Nulla dui est, vulputate a, dictum et, ornare sit amet, nunc. Ut tempus felis vitae velit. Etiam non dolor. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et lorem. Nullam mi tellus, vestibulum at, ultrices non, sollicitudin vel, quam. Nulla in diam. Fusce hendrerit purus nec est. Vivamus ut lectus nec quam accumsan scelerisque. Praesent imperdiet. Curabitur suscipit. Etiam nec lorem. Cras viverra, neque at ullamcorper dignissim, enim enim iaculis erat, vitae aliquet arcu eros sed dui. Ut ultrices, augue eu feugiat aliquet, libero leo faucibus purus, eu consequat tortor mauris nec velit. Pellentesque lacus felis, rutrum eu, convallis a, accumsan porta, quam. Suspendisse tincidunt metus. Maecenas metus. Vivamus quis tellus a purus convallis eleifend. Proin augue justo, ornare vitae, iaculis in, semper vel, mauris. Nulla nulla. Proin elit elit, bibendum eu, interdum at, fringilla non, ligula. Aenean nisl. Curabitur vitae erat. Aenean vitae tellus a elit venenatis ultrices. Ut tortor. Cras vestibulum viverra purus. Suspendisse potenti. Sed sodales leo in libero. Maecenas ipsum. Nunc arcu nibh, vulputate sit amet, ultricies faucibus, dignissim a, turpis. Quisque nulla tellus, iaculis ac, consequat ac, scelerisque in, tellus. Suspendisse dui nisi, auctor a, convallis tincidunt, laoreet eget, nunc. Mauris lacinia, nisl nec faucibus ultricies, urna felis rutrum lectus, at pulvinar velit sem quis sapien. Donec sit amet libero ut lacus commodo suscipit. Morbi faucibus fringilla nisl. Fusce quis sem ut eros facilisis dignissim. Sed cursus commodo massa. Nam pretium odio non urna. Aenean vehicula sapien eget arcu. Nullam aliquet felis eu quam. Ut dignissim lectus ac dolor. Fusce tempus. Maecenas et mauris. Curabitur volutpat mauris eu mi. Maecenas ornare. Proin id felis sit amet lorem viverra suscipit. Morbi laoreet, velit eget molestie consequat, ligula magna bibendum augue, at dictum ipsum tellus vel libero. In vel nisl non dolor egestas ultricies. Phasellus ornare sagittis magna. Nam quam magna, luctus ultricies, porta ac, vulputate ut, urna. Duis tristique augue eu orci elementum fringilla. Praesent venenatis urna sed metus. Nunc pulvinar felis eget arcu. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Vestibulum non metus hendrerit dolor tempor dictum. Ut eu leo at purus pretium laoreet. Donec ligula. Sed aliquam. Nullam mattis ultricies mauris. Nam odio. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Cras massa nisi, gravida id, ullamcorper in, consectetuer vitae, libero. Nulla dui est, vulputate a, dictum et, ornare sit amet, nunc. Ut tempus felis vitae velit. Etiam non dolor. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In et lorem. Nullam mi tellus, vestibulum at, ultrices non, sollicitudin vel, quam. Nulla in diam. Fusce hendrerit purus nec est. Vivamus ut lectus nec quam accumsan scelerisque. Praesent imperdiet. Curabitur suscipit. Etiam nec lorem. Cras viverra, neque at ullamcorper dignissim, enim enim iaculis erat, vitae aliquet arcu eros sed dui. Ut ultrices, augue eu feugiat aliquet, libero leo faucibus purus, eu consequat tortor mauris nec velit. Pellentesque lacus felis, rutrum eu, convallis a, accumsan porta, quam. Suspendisse tincidunt metus. Maecenas metus. Vivamus quis tellus a purus convallis eleifend. Proin augue justo, ornare vitae, iaculis in, semper vel, mauris. Nulla nulla. Proin elit elit, bibendum eu, interdum at, fringilla non, ligula. Aenean nisl. Curabitur vitae erat. Aenean vitae tellus a elit venenatis ultrices. Ut tortor. Cras vestibulum viverra purus. Suspendisse potenti. Sed sodales leo in libero. Maecenas ipsum. Nunc arcu nibh, vulputate sit amet, ultricies faucibus, dignissim a, turpis. Quisque nulla tellus, iaculis ac, consequat ac, scelerisque in, tellus. Suspendisse dui nisi, auctor a, convallis tincidunt, laoreet eget, nunc. Mauris lacinia, nisl nec faucibus ultricies, urna felis rutrum lectus, at pulvinar velit sem quis sapien. Donec sit amet libero ut lacus commodo suscipit. Morbi faucibus fringilla nisl. Fusce quis sem ut eros facilisis dignissim. Sed cursus commodo massa. Nam pretium odio non urna. Aenean vehicula sapien eget arcu. Nullam aliquet felis eu quam. Ut dignissim lectus ac dolor. Fusce tempus. Maecenas et mauris. Curabitur volutpat mauris eu mi. Maecenas ornare. Proin id felis sit amet lorem viverra suscipit. Morbi laoreet, velit eget molestie consequat, ligula magna bibendum augue, at dictum ipsum tellus vel libero. In vel nisl non dolor egestas ultricies. Phasellus ornare sagittis magna. Nam quam magna, luctus ultricies, porta ac, vulputate ut, urna. Duis tristique augue eu orci elementum fringilla. Praesent venenatis urna sed metus. Nunc pulvinar felis eget arcu. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Vestibulum non metus hendrerit dolor tempor dictum. Ut eu leo at purus pretium laoreet. Donec ligula. Sed aliquam. Nullam mattis ultricies mauris. Nam odio.

[/ QUOTE ]

for those who don't quite get it:
http://www.lipsum.com/

Spazz_NA · 04-11-2008 08:38 PM

Don't you dare tell me how to [censored] Goddamnit.

Fire_Storm · 04-11-2008 09:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you dare tell me how to [censored] Goddamnit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope you are being facetious or sarcastic, otherwise you might be tipping the tide to read, you are clueless. This is a forum and anyone can read a word to mean any way. You need to think about your audience before you chose your words. And consider the context. If you aren't OBVIOUSLY effectively communicating sarcasm, humor, or other complex emotion, then that in itself is a problem on your part.

If your post is a PWNZ, that lacks self awareness, especially coupled the an attitude in this thread, well my apologies for you being you.I hope you don't embarrass yourself in public that often at least in something other than a video game. Or learn some humility. Or you deserve some pity. Still deciding. Hard to say. Facilitating communication, understanding and non judgmental trade of ideas, is what this thread is about. It is actually the hope of the Internet, you trying to ruin it by being you?

And you are contributing how with your last post?

Fire_Away · 04-12-2008 02:35 AM

All this military talk has got my juices flowing.

Full disclosure: I did 26 years in the military; started out in communications and ended up Commanding Officer of a computer support organization. Now I'm retired and have mostly played CoX all day for the past 3 years (I admit I'm hooked and have no other real life). This is only my second post (I've been content reading the forum action from the sidelines but recently decided I needed to post in the forum to attempt to be a change agent for the game I love).

I also wanted to mention I attended the last dev meet and greet gathering and to a person they are friendly, intelligent, and dedicated individuals that most certainly rate our courtesy, admiration and respect. But forgive me if I fail to see the need to coddle them in order to have my point of view considered. To me that is as bad... or perhaps worse than being too blunt.

I agree with 95+% of the proposed guide. But before political correctness and the self appointed forum sheriff's posse completes the lynching of those that are upset or perhaps a little rough around the edges (I'm not talking about those who grossly violate the forums posting rules) may I respectfully make a one small point about this guide?

I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.

My view is conscious decisions have been made to pursue new features over taking corrective action to have the game more effectively perform as advertised. I am opposed to these decisions. If it were my organization, I'd call a good old fashion military standdown from new stuff development and go on a massive bug fix effort. This is certainly not without its own pain/risk. But I believe it would be worth it.

This post is already a bit too long already but let me make one other quick point. Just because a task (mission) is hard or complex is not really a justification to leave it's accomplishment ignored or open ended. But as a military man, you already know that and I acknowledge that was not what you were implying. But unfortuately, in my opinion, that has been precisely the case here in some instances.

Congratulations on a nice guide that appears to be very well received.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.

Spazz_NA · 04-12-2008 06:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't you dare tell me how to [censored] Goddamnit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope you are being facetious or sarcastic, otherwise you might be tipping the tide to read, you are clueless. This is a forum and anyone can read a word to mean any way. You need to think about your audience before you chose your words. And consider the context. If you aren't OBVIOUSLY effectively communicating sarcasm, humor, or other complex emotion, then that in itself is a problem on your part.

If your post is a PWNZ, that lacks self awareness, especially coupled the an attitude in this thread, well my apologies for you being you.I hope you don't embarrass yourself in public that often at least in something other than a video game. Or learn some humility. Or you deserve some pity. Still deciding. Hard to say. Facilitating communication, understanding and non judgmental trade of ideas, is what this thread is about. It is actually the hope of the Internet, you trying to ruin it by being you?

And you are contributing how with your last post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at that, the OP was right. All I did was use italics and people paid attention!

And in answer to your queries:

All you need to do is look at a few of my previous posts and say "Oh. This guy is always sarcastic. Hell, he's got a picture of Dr. Cox/Ironman for his avatar. This dude must be really sarcastic. I now hate/love/neutral him."

Also, I've never contributed anything in any post I've ever made, and I don't ever plan on it. No, I'm not going to go /wrist myself after you get all srs on me because I feel sorry for myself. I'm just going to go back to doing whatever I usually do. Which is post random stuff on random forums.

*tips hat*

Good day sir/madam.

Droids_Rule · 04-12-2008 07:37 AM

Let this be stickied in all the forums.

Gelu_Procellus · 04-12-2008 09:32 AM

Thanks for the well wishing all! A sticky, no less! Wow, I'm humbled.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you dare tell me how to [censored] Goddamnit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will tell you how to [censored] and you will like it buddy!

[ QUOTE ]
I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your points are well taken. As you have said that wasn't the intent of the guide. There's a difference between insulting ideas and insulting individuals. Some don't get the difference and instead marry the ideas to the persons giving them. Essentially my point is that there is a right way to criticize and get things done and a wrong way. Too many don't seem to know the difference.

There's another thread where one of the developers admits that there were only 15 developers working on this game for quite some time. That's less than two squads of people. As you know the platoon is the smallest maneuver unit in the Army. Less than half a rifle platoon to run and improve something on the scope of this game. That's pretty impressive, in my opinion.

I wasn't asking anyone to coddle developers, nor to treat their words as law but instead to give the men and women working on this game the benefit of the doubt. ...sir

yasfan · 04-12-2008 09:47 AM

Good guide, but I will never get my Whiny badge if I pay attention to it!

Fire_Away · 04-12-2008 10:04 AM

Roger your last Gelu Procellus. Wonder if more complained in the right way it would result in even more troops being added to the firing line. That would be sweet indeed. Out.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.