[ QUOTE ]
All this military talk has got my juices flowing.
Full disclosure: I did 26 years in the military; started out in communications and ended up Commanding Officer of a computer support organization. Now I'm retired and have mostly played CoX all day for the past 3 years (I admit I'm hooked and have no other real life). This is only my second post (I've been content reading the forum action from the sidelines but recently decided I needed to post in the forum to attempt to be a change agent for the game I love).
I also wanted to mention I attended the last dev meet and greet gathering and to a person they are friendly, intelligent, and dedicated individuals that most certainly rate our courtesy, admiration and respect. But forgive me if I fail to see the need to coddle them in order to have my point of view considered. To me that is as bad... or perhaps worse than being too blunt.
I agree with 95+% of the proposed guide. But before political correctness and the self appointed forum sheriff's posse completes the lynching of those that are upset or perhaps a little rough around the edges (I'm not talking about those who grossly violate the forums posting rules) may I respectfully make a one small point about this guide?
I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.
My view is conscious decisions have been made to pursue new features over taking corrective action to have the game more effectively perform as advertised. I am opposed to these decisions. If it were my organization, I'd call a good old fashion military standdown from new stuff development and go on a massive bug fix effort. This is certainly not without its own pain/risk. But I believe it would be worth it.
This post is already a bit too long already but let me make one other quick point. Just because a task (mission) is hard or complex is not really a justification to leave it's accomplishment ignored or open ended. But as a military man, you already know that and I acknowledge that was not what you were implying. But unfortuately, in my opinion, that has been precisely the case here in some instances.
Congratulations on a nice guide that appears to be very well received.
[/ QUOTE ]
damn, sir...you nailed it.
i grow tired of all the lil bugs that get ignored myself. maybe if they wern't so obsessed with new content. fix what we already have! how about let an issue sit for 3-4 months and nail down errors. Am I the only person who wonders what roman/greek/spartian lore and costumes have anything to do with comic book heroes? I agree power set prolif was needed. it was an easy fix to a lack of choice situation. but the rest of I12? I have a feeling it is an egg about to be laid on the part of this game. I9-I1 will go down as being some of the best ever. I don't have that feeling about I12.
thanks for pointing out my frustrations, sir. carry on.
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[ QUOTE ]
All this military talk has got my juices flowing.
Full disclosure: I did 26 years in the military; started out in communications and ended up Commanding Officer of a computer support organization. Now I'm retired and have mostly played CoX all day for the past 3 years (I admit I'm hooked and have no other real life). This is only my second post (I've been content reading the forum action from the sidelines but recently decided I needed to post in the forum to attempt to be a change agent for the game I love).
I also wanted to mention I attended the last dev meet and greet gathering and to a person they are friendly, intelligent, and dedicated individuals that most certainly rate our courtesy, admiration and respect. But forgive me if I fail to see the need to coddle them in order to have my point of view considered. To me that is as bad... or perhaps worse than being too blunt.
I agree with 95+% of the proposed guide. But before political correctness and the self appointed forum sheriff's posse completes the lynching of those that are upset or perhaps a little rough around the edges (I'm not talking about those who grossly violate the forums posting rules) may I respectfully make a one small point about this guide?
I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.
My view is conscious decisions have been made to pursue new features over taking corrective action to have the game more effectively perform as advertised. I am opposed to these decisions. If it were my organization, I'd call a good old fashion military standdown from new stuff development and go on a massive bug fix effort. This is certainly not without its own pain/risk. But I believe it would be worth it.
This post is already a bit too long already but let me make one other quick point. Just because a task (mission) is hard or complex is not really a justification to leave it's accomplishment ignored or open ended. But as a military man, you already know that and I acknowledge that was not what you were implying. But unfortuately, in my opinion, that has been precisely the case here in some instances.
Congratulations on a nice guide that appears to be very well received.
[/ QUOTE ]
damn, sir...you nailed it.
i grow tired of all the lil bugs that get ignored myself. maybe if they wern't so obsessed with new content. fix what we already have! how about let an issue sit for 3-4 months and nail down errors. Am I the only person who wonders what roman/greek/spartian lore and costumes have anything to do with comic book heroes? I agree power set prolif was needed. it was an easy fix to a lack of choice situation. but the rest of I12? I have a feeling it is an egg about to be laid on the part of this game. I9-I1 will go down as being some of the best ever. I don't have that feeling about I12.
thanks for pointing out my frustrations, sir. carry on.
[/ QUOTE ]
a) 15 people (if you don't know what I'm talking about look at the dev digest and read the thread)
b) Stagnation kills MMOs
c) FREEEM Fifteen!
wtf is a freem?
and no, you didnt really answer much.
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[ QUOTE ]
All this military talk has got my juices flowing.
Full disclosure: I did 26 years in the military; started out in communications and ended up Commanding Officer of a computer support organization. Now I'm retired and have mostly played CoX all day for the past 3 years (I admit I'm hooked and have no other real life). This is only my second post (I've been content reading the forum action from the sidelines but recently decided I needed to post in the forum to attempt to be a change agent for the game I love).
I also wanted to mention I attended the last dev meet and greet gathering and to a person they are friendly, intelligent, and dedicated individuals that most certainly rate our courtesy, admiration and respect. But forgive me if I fail to see the need to coddle them in order to have my point of view considered. To me that is as bad... or perhaps worse than being too blunt.
I agree with 95+% of the proposed guide. But before political correctness and the self appointed forum sheriff's posse completes the lynching of those that are upset or perhaps a little rough around the edges (I'm not talking about those who grossly violate the forums posting rules) may I respectfully make a one small point about this guide?
I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.
My view is conscious decisions have been made to pursue new features over taking corrective action to have the game more effectively perform as advertised. I am opposed to these decisions. If it were my organization, I'd call a good old fashion military standdown from new stuff development and go on a massive bug fix effort. This is certainly not without its own pain/risk. But I believe it would be worth it.
This post is already a bit too long already but let me make one other quick point. Just because a task (mission) is hard or complex is not really a justification to leave it's accomplishment ignored or open ended. But as a military man, you already know that and I acknowledge that was not what you were implying. But unfortuately, in my opinion, that has been precisely the case here in some instances.
Congratulations on a nice guide that appears to be very well received.
[/ QUOTE ]
damn, sir...you nailed it.
i grow tired of all the lil bugs that get ignored myself. maybe if they wern't so obsessed with new content. fix what we already have! how about let an issue sit for 3-4 months and nail down errors. Am I the only person who wonders what roman/greek/spartian lore and costumes have anything to do with comic book heroes? I agree power set prolif was needed. it was an easy fix to a lack of choice situation. but the rest of I12? I have a feeling it is an egg about to be laid on the part of this game. I9-I1 will go down as being some of the best ever. I don't have that feeling about I12.
thanks for pointing out my frustrations, sir. carry on.
[/ QUOTE ]
a) 15 people (if you don't know what I'm talking about look at the dev digest and read the thread)
b) Stagnation kills MMOs
c) FREEEM Fifteen!
[/ QUOTE ]
Off topic. Please feel free to delete.
Wow you are so right! I need to stop pushing for things to function as they should and join the pity party over NCSoft staffing right away! New corporate slogan: We'll always give you something new... even though some of it will never work.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
[ QUOTE ]
All this military talk has got my juices flowing.
Full disclosure: I did 26 years in the military; started out in communications and ended up Commanding Officer of a computer support organization. Now I'm retired and have mostly played CoX all day for the past 3 years (I admit I'm hooked and have no other real life). This is only my second post (I've been content reading the forum action from the sidelines but recently decided I needed to post in the forum to attempt to be a change agent for the game I love).
I also wanted to mention I attended the last dev meet and greet gathering and to a person they are friendly, intelligent, and dedicated individuals that most certainly rate our courtesy, admiration and respect. But forgive me if I fail to see the need to coddle them in order to have my point of view considered. To me that is as bad... or perhaps worse than being too blunt.
I agree with 95+% of the proposed guide. But before political correctness and the self appointed forum sheriff's posse completes the lynching of those that are upset or perhaps a little rough around the edges (I'm not talking about those who grossly violate the forums posting rules) may I respectfully make a one small point about this guide?
I take issue with much of the section on patience and bug fixes. As some of the games problems approach their 2nd year anniversary without resolution, I believe many of the player's complaints in this area are fully justified (albeit that some of these complaints were inappropriately expressed). The premise that the devs would fix everything if they could in an instant is more than a bit misleading.
My view is conscious decisions have been made to pursue new features over taking corrective action to have the game more effectively perform as advertised. I am opposed to these decisions. If it were my organization, I'd call a good old fashion military standdown from new stuff development and go on a massive bug fix effort. This is certainly not without its own pain/risk. But I believe it would be worth it.
This post is already a bit too long already but let me make one other quick point. Just because a task (mission) is hard or complex is not really a justification to leave it's accomplishment ignored or open ended. But as a military man, you already know that and I acknowledge that was not what you were implying. But unfortuately, in my opinion, that has been precisely the case here in some instances.
Congratulations on a nice guide that appears to be very well received.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a perfect example of the guide on the OP. YOu disagreed with some of it, and that is fine, and you displayed it in a well formatted non-flamitory way. You post is well taken and leads to more thought on the topic. WHere as if you would have said "Go [censored] yourself, you sissy [censored], this post is [censored], [censored], [censored], [censored]
You wouldn't have gotten that much across. Thanks for the great post
Also all those censoreds are not real bad words, I just typed them in
No sir, we should just rather be thankful for what we have, given that 15 people and a supporting cast of others gave it to us.
"We'll always give you something new... even though some of it will never work."
you sure that isn't one of the army's civilian contractor's slogans? lol
I remember when enemy based toggles wouldn't work unless you were in range. those were the days...:-)
Anyhow, I don't want to turn this topic into a dev rant.
maybe someone could post a few examples of what not to do from other threads. Or i could just leave well enough alone. heh.
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wtf is a freem?
and no, you didnt really answer much.
[/ QUOTE ]
FREEM is a reference to the April Fools joke.
The FREEM 15 is a name that's being tossed around for the 15 people compromising the entire CoH/V development staff for at least the last 1.5+yrs.
Read that again... fifteen people.
That's barely enough people to run a decent-sized fast-food joint, let alone an MMO.
So, the development team had a choice: They could dedicate all their time to finding and fixing existing bugs, with no guarantee of success (bug hunting, especially in a complex and seemingly not clean program such as CoH/V is a daunting task), letting the game stagnate, or they could develop new content.
Let's put that into perspective. They need to keep the content of the game fresh enough to keep their existing player-base, many of whom are long-term veterans and have seen most, if not all, that the game has to offer, interested and excited. They have to do this with the 8million pound gorilla of WoW in the room. And, to top it off, they know that the "replacement for CoH/V" is being developed (until recently in house, no less). So, if they don't continue to add more content, there is a very real chance that the game looses enough subscribers to no longer be considered financially viable and they are all (or at least most) out of a job.
So, given the option of doing something that continues to expand the game, or having the game grow stagnant (or even just appear to grow stagnant, which is bad enough) and potentially loose your job, what would you choose?
Also, even if they had "Ix: Statesman Gets a Makeover" which they dedicate to bug-fixing, there will be bugs they won't find or can't fix. Not only will a large portion of the player-base not care about bug-fixes, and consider the issue to be a complete waste of time, but of those that do care, there will be some who will be p/o'ed just because the bug they think is "game-breaking/ruining" doesn't get addressed.
And please don't give me "if this were the military". It's not. It's a game. Also, the military does not exactly have a stellar track record (as of late especially) of doing things right and quickly addressing issues (not the fault of the lower ranks, certainly). Proper body-/vehicle armor anyone? And the consequences there are far worse than any problem that may crop up in the game. [And let's please let the military discussion end there. I don't want this to deteriorate into an anti-/pro-military/Iraq war debate of flame-war. I only mention it at all because of the previously used examples.]
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[ QUOTE ]
wtf is a freem?
and no, you didnt really answer much.
[/ QUOTE ]
FREEM is a reference to the April Fools joke.
The FREEM 15 is a name that's being tossed around for the 15 people compromising the entire CoH/V development staff for at least the last 1.5+yrs.
Read that again... fifteen people.
That's barely enough people to run a decent-sized fast-food joint, let alone an MMO.
So, the development team had a choice: They could dedicate all their time to finding and fixing existing bugs, with no guarantee of success (bug hunting, especially in a complex and seemingly not clean program such as CoH/V is a daunting task), letting the game stagnate, or they could develop new content.
Let's put that into perspective. They need to keep the content of the game fresh enough to keep their existing player-base, many of whom are long-term veterans and have seen most, if not all, that the game has to offer, interested and excited. They have to do this with the 8million pound gorilla of WoW in the room. And, to top it off, they know that the "replacement for CoH/V" is being developed (until recently in house, no less). So, if they don't continue to add more content, there is a very real chance that the game looses enough subscribers to no longer be considered financially viable and they are all (or at least most) out of a job.
So, given the option of doing something that continues to expand the game, or having the game grow stagnant (or even just appear to grow stagnant, which is bad enough) and potentially loose your job, what would you choose?
Also, even if they had "Ix: Statesman Gets a Makeover" which they dedicate to bug-fixing, there will be bugs they won't find or can't fix. Not only will a large portion of the player-base not care about bug-fixes, and consider the issue to be a complete waste of time, but of those that do care, there will be some who will be p/o'ed just because the bug they think is "game-breaking/ruining" doesn't get addressed.
And please don't give me "if this were the military". It's not. It's a game. Also, the military does not exactly have a stellar track record (as of late especially) of doing things right and quickly addressing issues (not the fault of the lower ranks, certainly). Proper body-/vehicle armor anyone? And the consequences there are far worse than any problem that may crop up in the game. [And let's please let the military discussion end there. I don't want this to deteriorate into an anti-/pro-military/Iraq war debate of flame-war. I only mention it at all because of the previously used examples.]
[/ QUOTE ]
thanks. really. now THAT clarifies things and makes sence.
(not being sarcastic either..)
see, if more folks were like this guy...
on another note, yea, the military has a God-awful track record at times for its ineffeciency, it is just that it is two different worlds. If you haven't deployed or done your time, it is hard to relate. some of us have a hard time understanding why things can't get done JUST SO. No need to drag anything anti-military/war/iraq/whatever. this forum isnt the place. I guess our OP and the retired officer have great and valid points, but they just have a different way of displaying them.
And just as you did, when you put them in a meaningful way, it gets the point across and makes sence.
Nice guide/post. I thought you did a good job of defining how to be constructive without sounding preachy - on a rather tough topic, no less =)
So, what's your follow-up guide going to be? You can't do just one, you know.
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
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Fantastic post... 
That will unfortunately most likely get ignored by those best served to read it and take it to heart. 
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I am so glad someone cut out all of the nonsence out of this thread. I notice a few missing pieces. good job forum guys!
Agreed. Even if some of my posts got axed (a first I think) as part of the offensive-off-topic purge, I think this thread is better off w/o the nonsense I'd responded to.
Agreed completely.
Peace
Sharing kindness is kindness doubled; a burden shared is a burden halved...
I am not bigoted for race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or age... I do, however, have a big problem with stupidity, and stupidity knows no boundaries.
Amen to all of it. Especially the bit about how there are things happening out there bigger than us and the game. I think people forget that if some of their worst worries are some bugs in a game, they've got it pretty sweet.
Also cheers for the part about drawing a cirsle around your feet and fixing the problems inside first.
And of course the MtG reference. Awesome. lol xD
-S
"A boy doesn't have to go to war to be a hero; he can say he doesn't like pie when he sees there isn't enough to go around." -Edgar Watson Howe
Panda Doll - 50 Illusion/Empathy Controller @ Virtue (Formerly Champion)
Project GraveSong - 50 Sonic/Sonic Corruptor @ Virtue
QR
I like this.
And the military talk.
And at this time of the night/morning I have nothing to contribute, and should stop writing here.
Just a suggestion if you ever choose to revise/update this guide. You've made the same mistake as I did in my first guide. A giant wall of white text often generates a tl;dr reaction. I suggest you use (and add) the advice of use colour to help separate individual topics being addressed. It helps to draws the reader's eyes to the new point being addressed.
<QR>
How to complain? That's done in Room 12A just down the corridor.
It's Being Hit on the Head lessons in here.
I was going to write up a long post. But I totally agree with Fire (as well as most of the original poster). We should be polite as the first poster mentioned.
But we should politely communicate concerns that hundreds of posters have listed for years that are leading to many people quitting COX for the sake of everyone. This is also helpful for the devs, because I'm sure they would rather know when things are really, really bothering fan, and support base, than find out after a bunch of people quit this awesome MMO.
But...but.....I have a military background too..I was a sailor and we can only truly express ourselves when using 4 letter words......
Late to this thread, as I usually am. Also guilty of violating it by thoughtless over-reaction.
Yeah: the bit on 'keep it in perspective' really hit home. It's hard to keep in mind how good we have it 'here' where we can sit round all day and have fun (however 'qualified' you want to call it) on our favorite game---while others across the world fight every day just for basic necessities.
My apologies for getting carried-away now and then, fellow gamers and ye developers.
Cal2
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah: the bit on 'keep it in perspective' really hit home. It's hard to keep in mind how good we have it 'here' where we can sit round all day and have fun (however 'qualified' you want to call it) on our favorite game---while others across the world fight every day just for basic necessities.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, because of this post, I will feel guilty every time I play on my computer.
Great guide. As others have stated though, the only people who need to read this obviously won't. /em sadness
I really love this. It applies to so much more than mmos.... Everyone should read it.
HHHmmmm, Queen of Drama here, i have read it, will reread it, and feel there is a valid point being made! Once in awhile we all need a reality check. Thanks for the post, even if it helps just one person, you can say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Good work!
(Nemesis Plot 101)
Decafe is the root of all evil - if Statesman had not switched Lord Recluses coffee to decafe Recluse would have become a hero and the world would be a much different place 
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Don't you dare tell me how to [censored] Goddamnit.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will tell you how to [censored] and you will like it buddy!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yessah!
*salutes*