PvP Community Wishlist - Finished Copy
By
1_800_Spines,
Posted on: 2008-02-06 19:46 in Everything about PvP
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2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds
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i totally would agree with this, there needs to be something to make it where you just can't tk someone the entire match. 2 BFs is way better then 4, however that means if you only bring bfs for that ONE power you can only have res to it for 5 mins. i think a one minute limit on the power isn't that unreasonable, if you are the TKer when you see em pop 2 bfs just drop TK then it will be recharged by the time the BFs wear off. by putting the one minute limit on tk, the last 5mins of the match isn't gonna be a totaly"your stuck in a corner from my ONE power."TK will still be effective but will not be the only thing deciding the match.
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2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds
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i totally would agree with this, there needs to be something to make it where you just can't tk someone the entire match. 2 BFs is way better then 4, however that means if you only bring bfs for that ONE power you can only have res to it for 5 mins. i think a one minute limit on the power isn't that unreasonable, if you are the TKer when you see em pop 2 bfs just drop TK then it will be recharged by the time the BFs wear off. by putting the one minute limit on tk, the last 5mins of the match isn't gonna be a totaly"your stuck in a corner from my ONE power."TK will still be effective but will not be the only thing deciding the match.
[/ QUOTE ]Really it seems like why phase has a timer, it's the same thing win a fight phase gg, tk is less to an extent but same type of thing tk build dom gg, or just tk with out reprocussions. the only thing that makes the dom one so impressive is the fact of the glorius end boost when dom is up so you can tk someone twice as long as a troller or defender under the same conditions.
Thats why in villian ladder matches /ea stalkers are so cool.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
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Break Free offers 25% resistance to Repel. Escape offers 100% resistance to Repel. I could make Break Frees grant resistance anywhere from 25% to 100%. Where is the acceptable breakpoint?
25% = 4 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
33% = 3 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
50% = 2 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
100% = 1 BF needef to obviate the effect.
Once 100% resistance is reached, you can't be Repelled unless the effect is irresistible. This will apply to Force Bubble, Hurricane, and other Repel type powers as well.
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<ul type="square">[*]2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds[/list]
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I really like that idea.
Removing the repel effect on players really only makes sense to me if it's the only way to take care of the perma-kb bug, and even then I'm not sure.
What if they could remove the Repel and instead have it apply -Range? It would make sense in Telekinesis pushing away their energy blast, bullets, whatever, and melee having to get closer to hit.
Perhaps give Telekinesis itself a longer recharge time, less endurance cost, much less, and make it where it shuts off automatically after 15 seconds. Yet the -Range aspect would stay for 30 seconds maybe? Then it would be a 15 second repel, nothing to overpowered, as well as offer a -Range effect which would be helpful.
I don't know, just tossing it out there.
By the way, since we're now balancing for 1v1 I'm looking forward to nerfs to Hurricane, Slows, Phase Shift, Hibernate, Power Boost, Power Buildup, all Slows, all auto-hit toggle Debuffs, Energy Transfer, Headsplitter, Focused Accuracy, Aim, Buildup, Hurdle, Teleport and anything else that can't be countered solo without inspirations. Thanks! 
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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lol now you know theres no time for all that while trying to save yourself lol. But thats cool and all and the whole stacking stuffs adds up and makes since to me also incursion i did say it seems meaning i wasnt totally sure but thanks for the clarification :P , but since castle is nerfing tk anyway, my suggestion isn't as harsh as he's suggesting, so lets not focus on an individuels pvp escapades, and get on the task at hand.
A clicky seems like a viable answer, so what im waiting for is a reason why it wouldnt work. Instead of a endless toggle, a clicky with a 10-15sec duration and rech simular to mog 300sec? so it cant be abused.
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I'm simply saying that your conception of PvP is based on misinformation or a misunderstanding of how pvp combat works. At least in some aspects.
Please don't take my comments as a flame, because i'm just trying to get you the right information so you can make better informed suggestions.
Your actual suggestion wasn't all that bad, even though i'd rather prefer it a little differently. Perhaps the click able verison would work, but then when factoring in IO's, recharge etc...will the power be ultimately not worth using, or still overpowered?
Ideally i wish the toggle would shut off after a min as suggested prior. Maybe they can just add repel supression after a certain amount of time, say like 30 seconds worth or something. This may allow the player time to get out of TK range, or defeat the player using TK.
Globals - @Incursion. & @Incursion-
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Break Free offers 25% resistance to Repel. Escape offers 100% resistance to Repel. I could make Break Frees grant resistance anywhere from 25% to 100%. Where is the acceptable breakpoint?
25% = 4 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
33% = 3 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
50% = 2 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
100% = 1 BF needef to obviate the effect.
Once 100% resistance is reached, you can't be Repelled unless the effect is irresistible. This will apply to Force Bubble, Hurricane, and other Repel type powers as well.
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<ul type="square">[*]2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds[/list]
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I really like that idea.
Removing the repel effect on players really only makes sense to me if it's the only way to take care of the perma-kb bug, and even then I'm not sure.
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i think castle mentioned the repel bug was going to be fixed by adding KB/KD suppression to certain powers that didnt have them coded correctly, or something like that.
Globals - @Incursion. & @Incursion-
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By the way, since we're now balancing for 1v1 I'm looking forward to nerfs to Hurricane, Slows, Phase Shift, Hibernate, Power Boost, Power Buildup, all Slows, all auto-hit toggle Debuffs, Energy Transfer, Headsplitter, Focused Accuracy, Aim, Buildup, Hurdle, Teleport and anything else that can't be countered solo without inspirations. Thanks!
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QFT
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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Break Free offers 25% resistance to Repel. Escape offers 100% resistance to Repel. I could make Break Frees grant resistance anywhere from 25% to 100%. Where is the acceptable breakpoint?
25% = 4 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
33% = 3 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
50% = 2 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
100% = 1 BF needef to obviate the effect.
Once 100% resistance is reached, you can't be Repelled unless the effect is irresistible. This will apply to Force Bubble, Hurricane, and other Repel type powers as well.
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<ul type="square">[*]2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds[/list]
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I really like that idea.
Removing the repel effect on players really only makes sense to me if it's the only way to take care of the perma-kb bug, and even then I'm not sure.
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i think castle mentioned the repel bug was going to be fixed by adding KB/KD suppression to certain powers that didnt have them coded correctly, or something like that.
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KB/KD suppression tags will stop people from being perma levitated. The issue with the TK + KB bug is that because you're getting repelled, the knockback never ends and so suppression can't kick in.
We'll see though.
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Break Free offers 25% resistance to Repel. Escape offers 100% resistance to Repel. I could make Break Frees grant resistance anywhere from 25% to 100%. Where is the acceptable breakpoint?
25% = 4 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
33% = 3 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
50% = 2 BFs needed to obviate the effect.
100% = 1 BF needef to obviate the effect.
Once 100% resistance is reached, you can't be Repelled unless the effect is irresistible. This will apply to Force Bubble, Hurricane, and other Repel type powers as well.
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<ul type="square">[*]2 bf's should free a player from the repel[*] TK toggle should de-activate after 60 seconds[/list]
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I really like that idea.
Removing the repel effect on players really only makes sense to me if it's the only way to take care of the perma-kb bug, and even then I'm not sure.
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i think castle mentioned the repel bug was going to be fixed by adding KB/KD suppression to certain powers that didnt have them coded correctly, or something like that.
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KB/KD suppression tags will stop people from being perma levitated. The issue with the TK + KB bug is that because you're getting repelled, the knockback never ends and so suppression can't kick in.
We'll see though.
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The problem is you never hit the ground to end the KB. Maybe a KB should cancel the repel for the duration of the KB/KD, like it does for NPCs. Or put KB/KD res in TK like web nades..
I'd prefer the first to the latter. We don't need two Grav/ sets with non-synergizing powers.
I don't mean to sound unreasonable, but I tend to agree with EvilGeko. I have a preference to just have it not work. Right now melee is a joke in PvP, and allowing a toggled effect that completely shuts them down is too harsh against characters that already lose most of their DPS to jousting. The cost of 2 BFs is... high when people are trying to deal with Controllers and perma-Doms.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I don't mean to sound unreasonable, but I tend to agree with EvilGeko. I have a preference to just have it not work. Right now melee is a joke in PvP, and allowing a toggled effect that completely shuts them down is too harsh against characters that already lose most of their DPS to jousting. The cost of 2 BFs is... high when people are trying to deal with Controllers and perma-Doms.
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If you're gonna be fighting controllers and doms then you're gonna be popping a couple of BFs anyway. 2 BFs sounds reasonable.
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I don't mean to sound unreasonable, but I tend to agree with EvilGeko. I have a preference to just have it not work. Right now melee is a joke in PvP, and allowing a toggled effect that completely shuts them down is too harsh against characters that already lose most of their DPS to jousting. The cost of 2 BFs is... high when people are trying to deal with Controllers and perma-Doms.
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Toggled Radiation Infection completely shuts down nearly all my Villains unless I pop multiple Insights. Can we make that not affect players too?
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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I don't mean to sound unreasonable, but I tend to agree with EvilGeko. I have a preference to just have it not work. Right now melee is a joke in PvP, and allowing a toggled effect that completely shuts them down is too harsh against characters that already lose most of their DPS to jousting. The cost of 2 BFs is... high when people are trying to deal with Controllers and perma-Doms.
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Toggled Radiation Infection completely shuts down nearly all my Villains unless I pop multiple Insights. Can we make that not affect players too?
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I don't know what you play, but Toggled Rad doesn't herd you into a corner and prevent you from moving without being able to attack back so no, it's not the same thing. Plus, there are tons of ToHitBuffs in the game to help counter it, including an accolade. There is, um, no Repel resistance outside specific secondaries.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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I don't mean to sound unreasonable, but I tend to agree with EvilGeko. I have a preference to just have it not work. Right now melee is a joke in PvP, and allowing a toggled effect that completely shuts them down is too harsh against characters that already lose most of their DPS to jousting. The cost of 2 BFs is... high when people are trying to deal with Controllers and perma-Doms.
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Toggled Radiation Infection completely shuts down nearly all my Villains unless I pop multiple Insights. Can we make that not affect players too?
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I don't know what you play, but Toggled Rad doesn't herd you into a corner and prevent you from moving without being able to attack back so no, it's not the same thing. Plus, there are tons of ToHitBuffs in the game to help counter it, including an accolade. There is, um, no Repel resistance outside specific secondaries.
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No, but with Lingering Radiation you don't need to be herded anyway since you aren't going anywhere fast. It doesn't matter if you can attack or not if you can't hit anything anyway. And those melee characters who aren't Willpower, Invulnerability or Energy Armor can all get ranged attacks after level 40 so they can, in fact, attack. Some of them can get ranged attacks before that, and there's also Vet rewards and a whole horde of temp power that are ranged attacks. It's likely someone who's prepared can do more while TKed than a Villain can while under RI. Those To Hit Buffs? Not many on Villain side, which has long been talked about. The accolade? Broken on Villain side; it isn't accessible if you exemp down.
And you know what? *Everyone* can get out of Repel using Breakfrees. The consensus here is that 4 is too many to have to use (and I agree with this) but that 2 would be quite fair.
Do I actually want RI to be nerfed? Maybe but that's not why I brought it up here. The point is there are other toggle effects that are just as debilitating, if not more so, than TK. *Especially* if Breakfrees get the recommended buff vs Repel effects.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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Castle, can you go into more detail on the cage suppresion nerf, thanks.
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It operates exactly the same as Hold suppression. Initial Cage will take full effect. Any additional cages will not take effect until the "suppression" period ends.
EDIT:
FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.
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FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.
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Cool beans, good change. 
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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No, but with Lingering Radiation you don't need to be herded anyway since you aren't going anywhere fast. It doesn't matter if you can attack or not if you can't hit anything anyway. And those melee characters who aren't Willpower, Invulnerability or Energy Armor can all get ranged attacks after level 40 so they can, in fact, attack. Some of them can get ranged attacks before that, and there's also Vet rewards and a whole horde of temp power that are ranged attacks. It's likely someone who's prepared can do more while TKed than a Villain can while under RI. Those To Hit Buffs? Not many on Villain side, which has long been talked about. The accolade? Broken on Villain side; it isn't accessible if you exemp down.
And you know what? *Everyone* can get out of Repel using Breakfrees. The consensus here is that 4 is too many to have to use (and I agree with this) but that 2 would be quite fair.
Do I actually want RI to be nerfed? Maybe but that's not why I brought it up here. The point is there are other toggle effects that are just as debilitating, if not more so, than TK. *Especially* if Breakfrees get the recommended buff vs Repel effects.
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You have some good points. I still have a slight preference for the non-Bf version, but only because melee has a problem competing in PvP right now. I could live with it either way, and it's irrelevant since Castle changed it anyway.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Castle, can you go into more detail on the cage suppresion nerf, thanks.
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It operates exactly the same as Hold suppression. Initial Cage will take full effect. Any additional cages will not take effect until the "suppression" period ends.
EDIT:
FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.
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Very cool, thanks for giving our suggestions a chance. Now git back to the acrobatics thread! 
Globals - @Incursion. & @Incursion-
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tk will no longer affect players? sucks balls for me
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TK is a continuous hold and a continuous repel. Only the repel part is being removed for PvP. At this point, it will take actual player testing to see if that makes TK 'useless' in PvP. If it does, then ask for a re-buff short of continuous repel, e.g., a limited Knock Down.
As it is, TK was definitely being exploited. This is only the beginning of nerfs to overpowered exploits in PvP. For those exploiting, they will complain loudly. But we need to remember that the PvP community has been asking for balance to such exploitable powers. You're starting to get what you're asking for. The "I Win" buttons are being disabled.
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While I agree TK can be exploited, I think this is a major nerf on Dominators who now have even less "tools" to be useful in PvP.
I really feel bad for Dominators in pvp. With stacking mez protection and BFs, Dom is so useless that it's not even funny.
Even against Mind Dom, it's annoying but it takes forever for them to kill anything. Mind Dom is the only Dom that I find somewhat "competitive" in pvp. They are still fragile as cotton.
If they gonna nerf TK in general, they gotta do something to buff Dominators. And no, perma-dom through set bonuses is not the answer. It is so easy to ruin the recharge cycle and a Dom still needs to build domination and what's worst is if he dies, he needs to wait until it's recharged again and then he still needs to build domination. Do you know how easily a Dom can die during the "down" period?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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TP is not viable as a solo travel power or for combat motion. Suggestions include changing the hover after tp to fly, decreasing activation time, removing the hover when tping to the ground, or allowing people to change how far theyre tping.
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The "Hover" was added to make TP viable as a PVE travel power -- removing it is not really an option. Suppressing the Fly attribute if near ground may be viable, I'll investigate that. Changing how far you can teleport is a UI nightmare, and unlikely to be changeable in a fashion that would meet PVP needs.
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Castle, is there any way that you can allow people to choose to have the "hover" effect or not in Teleport and Team Teleport in Options?
Please please please. This is REALLY important to me. In PvP, I don't like the hover effect but in pve I do. Is this too complicated to make it as an Option?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Castle, can you go into more detail on the cage suppresion nerf, thanks.
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It operates exactly the same as Hold suppression. Initial Cage will take full effect. Any additional cages will not take effect until the "suppression" period ends.
EDIT:
FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.
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Score. Thanks for listening and responding.
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EDIT:
FWIW, we reverted out the "Not affect players" change to TK, and changed Break Frees to 50% Repel Resist, and 100% resist for Medium and Large inspires.
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Good move... good move
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Castle, is there any way that you can allow people to choose to have the "hover" effect or not in Teleport and Team Teleport in Options?
Please please please. This is REALLY important to me. In PvP, I don't like the hover effect but in pve I do. Is this too complicated to make it as an Option?
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I don't understand why they don't simply make the Hover effect end as soon as the player pressed a movement key.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Happened yesturday on triumph, and i wasnt solo keep in mind like i said he was doing other stuff as well. Sometimes the bf's don't work as intended thats a fact. Hell i'v been held before through a allready activated phase shift, i have seen ppl die inside hibernoob with 0 hp and bust out the ice dead after like 20 sec.
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First let me address this. The reason why people get held through Phase Shift and Hibernate isn't because break free's don't work. It is because they ware off during your phase/hibernate, and when they do, if there is enough mag already stacked on you, the affect will take place. For example, It takes say 3 power boosted holds to hold your regen (not using real numbers). Say you are running one break free, and the mez caster has 3 or 4 holds on you. You decide to hit phase shift. If you still have 3 or 4 holds stacked when that break free dissipates, you will be held, and phase will drop.
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I even once got detoogled with a ton of cm on me, those holds are incredible, also most doms run mega, among other accolades, it's doms that it takes 2-3 bf's to get one hold off you just for them to restack more and break you anyway.
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For starters, if you have the same emp spamming clear mind on you, only 1 is being accounted for. The devs made a change that the only way to have more than 1 CM on and have its affect is if it is from multiple casters. So basically, you're scrapper or tank mez protection, plus 10 mag from 1 CM, its like the same as running 1 break free solo. Basically a Dominator in Domination can can hold you. Simple math right there.
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If you doubt this log a 40+ toon on triumphs rv when morgify-x or cerebral torture is on and let them show you what i mean lol. And actually i didnt want to go into the whole story but since your forcing me to disprove you i will. But i had my sp/reg on yesturday and it was two doms i never seen befor in the zone a mind/ice and a fire/??? so i poped my big bf's, the expensive ones they add like 10mag def for 2min or so i used 4 and rushed to get the fire. He jousted and jousted me and the mind decided to help him, so i still attacked the fire figuring id get him before the mind got me, and in beetween being held a few times and forced to use bf's and retoogle i was put into tk. Also i didnt even mention a stalker joined in as'ing me while being tk'd. They backed me into the hero heavy held out of bf's, the hold fell just long enough for me to use my temporary phase and i jumped down into the base for my life. OK lol jeez i didnt come here to defend my honor just give my input on tk giving a relevent story of my point. And to further what im saying i'll even put my name out there, anyone who does triumph rv and comes to these forums knows about Ravens my sp/regen one of the toughest, most io'd out scrappers there, when you fight with me it's a tough fight and anyone who has seen me will attest i know my stuff.
[/ QUOTE ] sounds like you were fighting 1v3...not sure what you expected :/
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IE if i eat 4 bf's in theory would give me total protection from tk
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Not theory, proven fact. Test it.
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But if enough holds, immobs,stuns or w/e are stacked on you to detoogle you anything goes after that if your now tk'd the AI is not going to say they have 4 bf's still on them you will be pushed back as intended.
[/ QUOTE ] Simply not true. Unless you have multiple repel powers working against you. If your toggles are down, you aren't getting any extra mag from your practiced brawler, or integration whatever. Also, you may lose your KB/KD protection, but you will not be repelled unless there are multiple repels being used. [ QUOTE ]
well i was being ganked maybe i did miss an attacker
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Also in my rage not thinking since it only shows on hold icon you can have a million holds on you and it will appear as one so you really cant gadge whats on you.
[/ QUOTE ] also not true. Right click on the icon and have it either display numerically or stacked...you can then count how many holds you hav on you.
[/ QUOTE ]lol now you know theres no time for all that while trying to save yourself lol. But thats cool and all and the whole stacking stuffs adds up and makes since to me also incursion i did say it seems meaning i wasnt totally sure but thanks for the clarification :P , but since castle is nerfing tk anyway, my suggestion isn't as harsh as he's suggesting, so lets not focus on an individuels pvp escapades, and get on the task at hand.
A clicky seems like a viable answer, so what im waiting for is a reason why it wouldnt work. Instead of a endless toggle, a clicky with a 10-15sec duration and rech simular to mog 300sec? so it cant be abused.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com