Insulting and wasting time ftl indeed.
Good discussion so far though.
is silent still talking?
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I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?
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You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it". 
Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?
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Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months. 
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I understand where you're coming from. But keep in mind that it's not like anyone is going to the Devs and saying "Change cage plz". It's just one item on really long list of things to look at. If they decide it's not worth the time or effort, so be it.
Personally, I think the whole concept of caging is a piss poor game mechanic. I can't think of another game that allows you to essentially tell another person, "You don't get to play", at an auto-aimed push of a button. I think it's cheesy as all hell and doesn't belong in a competitive game. But that's just my opinion.
When the community policed itself and multiple cage teams were frowned upon, it wasn't that big a deal. But when you start bringing in 2-4 sonics and multiple gravs, where does it end? In a post-veng stacking world, Sonics bring enough to the table to warrant their place in the lineup even without the ability to perma-cage...so I think the "diminishing returns" thing is a little played out. Their buffs and debuffs are very nice to have around.
If the community or the devs decide that they like things the way they are, that's fine. I've said my piece and will keep on playing. No harm, no foul for asking for what you want.
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Riight, no one is going to the Devs but yet I only see a specific wishlist aimed at Caging in this forums. Where is all the wishlists for all the stuff which actually needs to be addressed, their clumped into one big thread. Like I said previously in a post- You all have had no problem banning powersets, pool powers, and enforcing some ridiculous rules in your ladder. Why change your MO now and just ban caging or limit it to one cager per a match. It can't be cause Im the one suggesting this course of action or is it.
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Sure if I wanted to I could just follow him and keep him out of the match as long as possible, except my contribution to my team would be minimal and probably not worth having me on.
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A good Sonic can keep a target perma-caged (or nearly perma) and contribute debuffs and damage.
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Here's a gameplay negative impact- I'll use a quick example. Ex- A sonic is trying to get a nuke in WB, hes attacked by em/invun brute, he's not interested in dying and losing his codes, so he cages the brute, now instead of being able to ward off brute with cages when he attacks, suppression kicks in and hes dead after an ET and TF. Theirs a negative impact you just reduced the surviviability of these powersets. Thats just one of the many examples, which can come up on live pvp. Would it affect me personally, no cause lol at zones but it would affect more people than the 10-15 whiners in this thread.
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First, the cage duration on the first cage is more than long enough to effect an escape. If you needed to chain cage your opponent you've already done something significantly wrong or you're being attacked by more than one player. Second, your attempt to trivialize the issue with wording like "10-15 whiners in this thread" greatly lowers the value of any legitimate argument you might make. How many people who aren't arena PvP'ers even take the cages? Most PvE'ers think view them somewhere between useless and situational.
If you want to raise issues then do so without attempting to insult people, if you want to insult people and waste time (which is what it looks like to me) then go [censored] yourself.
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I guess Im a pretty piss poor sonic then, You could prob say the same for guys like Omega and Ajax since in my previous IPVP league matches against their teams, it didnt seem like anyone was perma caged the entire match on my team, I dunno maybe they were'nt trying too.
Also were are your numbers of how many people who don't pvp take cage? I'd like to see some hard data, go work hard at that, then come back to me with some facts like a good dog.
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is silent still talking?
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Hai 
I think Ajax and Omega can speak for themselves quite well, if you think dropping names will strengthen your [censored] then you're wrong. Make your arguments based on logic or stop wasting time, you're cluttering this thread with stupidity it doesn't need.
BTW, if you don't realize what the prevailing thought on caging in the PvE community is why don't you go gather some data, perhaps some self education will make your arguments (or your reasons for arguing) a bit more logical.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
I think they speak for themselves quite well and are very good sonics. I'd like to see these these perma caging sonics, who are spot on with keeping everyone buffed up, and contribute in debuffing and spiking the target. In matches with them didn't see them able to perma cage,buff, and debuff/attack, having played a sonic its a fine balance between the three tasks. Fact is my arguments are the most logical here and its clearing up the stupidity from the very first post and on.
Let's go back to my logic, why should the Devs spend their time on a potential problem which affects at most 50 high end TEST server pvpers. I see about 15 people in this thread who want cage changed, a good number who say leave it as is, not a clear majority either way. When the OP said theirs 450 accounts in the ladder alone, I retorted with taking her own sg roster and basically slashing the number of accounts in half of how many people actually play. I then dwindled that number down further by in essence saying if your not a perma cage target or the cager, it is not affecting you or your "fun" . Your basically left with the sonics who play on SG teams and whiney blasters who cant get past a 15 second cage.
I then provided a course of action which is not foreign to the people in the ladder. Banning or limiting the number of cagers as they did to troller cage when it was 30 seconds, vengeance use, having to wait two weeks before playing in your SG's matches and so on. NO ONE has come back with a valid reason- why they would be against doing this or why the Dev's should spend time on an issue which affects so few-when the majority of the player base would rather see their time spent else were.
I don't have to realize anything about what's the percentage of PVE sonics take cage, thats your point. A point I would like to see some hard numbers, a point you can't be a good dog and fetch those numbers and you know so. So you make assumptions about how many people do so.
Time to throw in the towel for you, cause quite frankly your grasping at straws. Every response to my so called "stupidity" actually validates my points more and more.
So........cry..........moar.............plz!
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is silent still talking?
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Hai
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is silent still talking?
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Hai
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Hai2u2
Cri Moar. Cage is fine. Btw I cage(not always same target perma but its up fast enough with AB), debuff, TK, and shield. Unfortunately I don't have time to attack, but thats what 4 fire/em blasters are for.
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When the OP said theirs 450 accounts in the ladder alone, I retorted with taking her own sg roster and basically slashing the number of accounts in half of how many people actually play.
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OMG Fel you're right that totally was the best retort ever! Like when you said
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look at how many multiple accounts from your own roster Putz. Nuff said. Quick look says their is at least 13 people with double, Helly has 3, Ajax who knows how many hes got in there.
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I was totally blown away! Damn, like if only I could've mentioned that when posting the numbers:
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There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.
Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.
Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.
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Oh, hmm, it looks like I did. When did they change the definition of retort to "repeating what was already said"?
I was going to leave it be, but really, you shouldn't brag about "figuring out" something that was openly stated with the numbers.
As is there's a decent majority of posters in the thread who support some sort of change to cage. The cage note on the wish list is probably going to be changed to something along the lines of "Many people feel that permacaging should be looked at. Discussion is availble [link to this thread]." It's currently looking highly unlikely that this will make the top ten, though.
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As is there's a decent majority of posters in the thread who support some sort of change to cage. The cage note on the wish list is probably going to be changed to something along the lines of "Many people feel that permacaging should be looked at. Discussion is availble [link to this thread]." It's currently looking highly unlikely that this will make the top ten, though.
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I don't think you have a majority in this thread that feel a need to change cage though. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is.
I'm still in the boat of no change is needed.
I believe it was at 23 for some sort of change 14 against last time I counted. I see one new person saying no changes, so 23:15 would be what it is now, or 60% for some sort of change 40% against. I'm not going to lock anything in until we close up the wish list thread.
time to start posting with my other account 
ill post with my other 2
Seriously.......there is nothing wrong with the cage. Stop nerf herding something that doesn't need nerfing.
Let the devs focus their attention fixing things that do need fixing, like...........stacked vengeance.
I don't think asking a question is nerf herding. Putz is putting a lot of work into determining the top priorities for PvPers, and I'd guess she's just looking for people's thoughts on the subject. Obviously people don't agree on it - which is probably why she asked.
People need to stop this knee-jerk crap, state their opinion, and chill out.
All I'm saying is leave the poor old cage alone. It was already nerfed to 15 second duration, and it takes a recharge build and external buffs to have it close to perma.
Leave cage alone please.
lol @ 2nd accounts.
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When the OP said theirs 450 accounts in the ladder alone, I retorted with taking her own sg roster and basically slashing the number of accounts in half of how many people actually play.
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OMG Fel you're right that totally was the best retort ever! Like when you said
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look at how many multiple accounts from your own roster Putz. Nuff said. Quick look says their is at least 13 people with double, Helly has 3, Ajax who knows how many hes got in there.
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I was totally blown away! Damn, like if only I could've mentioned that when posting the numbers:
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There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.
Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.
Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.
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Oh, hmm, it looks like I did. When did they change the definition of retort to "repeating what was already said"?
I was going to leave it be, but really, you shouldn't brag about "figuring out" something that was openly stated with the numbers.
As is there's a decent majority of posters in the thread who support some sort of change to cage. The cage note on the wish list is probably going to be changed to something along the lines of "Many people feel that permacaging should be looked at. Discussion is availble [link to this thread]." It's currently looking highly unlikely that this will make the top ten, though.
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LOL the unstable OP has gone all emo over one of my posts, so far she goes on to quote different sections of my commentary. What lead to this Putz? Im going to try and psycho analyze what lead to your swift fall to what some call my level.
Did someone smear your name on your Birthday cake who wasn't you? Was your cake Buttercream instead of your favorite triple thunderthigh chocolate? Maybe it has nothing to do with that and me referring to you as the OP and not Miss Putz- Countess of all that is PvP, Queen of the Ladder and the poster of all that should be nerfed or what you like to say "wishlisted" . Sry I don't feed into fugly chicks ego building, go to Ed for that plz .
Now back to some points of interest-
1. you made it sound like theirs 450 people with a few who have two-three accounts, (LOL, I chuckled when you came up with that number, you spent the time to count like a good dog, awwwwwww <3 ). I looked 5 seconds at your groups roster and came close to halving it with all the dual/triple accounts VR had.
2. If their was 450 people in your ladder (LOLZ), not everyone of them is affected by cage in one bit. 75% of them will never be caged close enough to be considered perma and a good number of them will never play a sonic. Thats how I estimated 50 at most are affected from high-end pvp groups. From the numbers you gave below their are less than 50 people in this thread.
3. You or anyone here haven't given a reason why the Dev's should spend attention on a potential problem which only affects a small percentage of high end test server pvpers. A majority of the player base would rather their time be spent elsewhere. In addition to the fact that no one has taken into account how this could affect caging in live pvp.
4. Why dont you and the ladder just ban or limit caging, like you have done so with so many other things. Maybe its cause you don't have enough votes to get it done within your already small community. So your resort to making wishlists and stomping your large nerfherding feet and hope the Devs bail you out.
Good attempt at trying to dismiss my retort. You get A for effort but C plus for execution.
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I don't think asking a question is nerf herding. Putz is putting a lot of work into determining the top priorities for PvPers, and I'd guess she's just looking for people's thoughts on the subject. Obviously people don't agree on it - which is probably why she asked.
People need to stop this knee-jerk crap, state their opinion, and chill out.
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If that was the case, where are all the threads on 30% unresisted blaster dmg, unresisted defender debuffs, slow suppression, Brute Fury, villain epic pools made by Miss Putz- Countess of PVP, Lady of Wishlisting posts, Eater of the Triple Thunderthigh chocolate birthday cake, ruler of VR nation, and founder of the tinfoil hat brigade!
Come on Fel... lets have a nice civilized discussion. No need to make it personal.
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I don't think asking a question is nerf herding. Putz is putting a lot of work into determining the top priorities for PvPers, and I'd guess she's just looking for people's thoughts on the subject. Obviously people don't agree on it - which is probably why she asked.
People need to stop this knee-jerk crap, state their opinion, and chill out.
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If that was the case, where are all the threads on 30% unresisted blaster dmg, unresisted defender debuffs, slow suppression, Brute Fury, villain epic pools made by Miss Putz- Countess of PVP, Lady of Wishlisting posts, Eater of the Triple Thunderthigh chocolate birthday cake, ruler of VR nation, and founder of the tinfoil hat brigade!
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Fel, really, if tossing out insults means a lot to you, why don't you write me a mean PM or start a new thread about it or something. The insults are really adding nothing to this thread and nothing to your argument.
But to answer your question, if you check out the PvP Wishlist thread you might see:
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2. Fury does not build as intended.
...
1. Hero and villain combat is not balanced, especially in the 40+ game. The most popular suggestion is to open up a set of APP for villains and allow them to respec out of their patron pools to get those.
2. Many people feel that the balance of irresistible effects in PvP needs to be reconsidered. Changing irresistible effects might be another way of balancing heroes and villains.
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Everything you mentioned but slow suppression is on it. Bring up slow suppression, maybe people will agree with you that it's needed. If it is I can add it to the list.
So, basically your point there's not valid.
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Sure if I wanted to I could just follow him and keep him out of the match as long as possible, except my contribution to my team would be minimal and probably not worth having me on.
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A good Sonic can keep a target perma-caged (or nearly perma) and contribute debuffs and damage.
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Here's a gameplay negative impact- I'll use a quick example. Ex- A sonic is trying to get a nuke in WB, hes attacked by em/invun brute, he's not interested in dying and losing his codes, so he cages the brute, now instead of being able to ward off brute with cages when he attacks, suppression kicks in and hes dead after an ET and TF. Theirs a negative impact you just reduced the surviviability of these powersets. Thats just one of the many examples, which can come up on live pvp. Would it affect me personally, no cause lol at zones but it would affect more people than the 10-15 whiners in this thread.
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First, the cage duration on the first cage is more than long enough to effect an escape. If you needed to chain cage your opponent you've already done something significantly wrong or you're being attacked by more than one player. Second, your attempt to trivialize the issue with wording like "10-15 whiners in this thread" greatly lowers the value of any legitimate argument you might make. How many people who aren't arena PvP'ers even take the cages? Most PvE'ers think view them somewhere between useless and situational.
If you want to raise issues then do so without attempting to insult people, if you want to insult people and waste time (which is what it looks like to me) then go [censored] yourself.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends