[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
..The last sentence does answer "yes" to whether or not there are counters to being caged.
[/ QUOTE ]
Too bad that's not the question I asked. I said "directly" and/or "reactively". To which the answer is "no". You keep re-phrasing my question to give the answer you want to give instead of answering the question honestly. That's a very old and cheap debate tactic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on your definition of "direct," I guess. There's no "reactive" counter to cage aside from waiting it out and preparing for the next one, but all the counters I've talked about seem to be direct ones (what else would they be?).
And despite Fallspark's post being a little over the top, honestly, I can see the point he was trying to make. I know there are teams and players already using successful counters to minimize the effectiveness of cage as much as they currently can without resorting to "we need some kind of change." That's evidence that at least some team lineups (i.e. the example of stormies) and at least some strategies are already working, as counters to cage. Isn't that enough? What more is needed?
Further, the recent suggestion (inspirations) would allow every team to have the ability to virtually nullify cages. At second glance, that seems like an awfully broad leap. So, for example, sure, you practically must bring a kin (hero-side) to counter slows, but you can bring any kind of lineup you want and still be able to nullify cages.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...Seriously, I don't do the whole "personal attack on the forums" thing, and I'm not trying to act or fool or be high and mighty. I'm not sitting here with a thesaurus, I'm typing how I usually type when I make an argument. Please don't let things devolve to a debate over my word choice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then you may want to choose your words a little more carefully to avoid the seeming condescention. You appear to have a fairly firm grasp of the English language, so one might assume that you are intentionally conveying that tone. If you say you're not, I'll take you at face value.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno what else to say. I'm not trying to be condescending.
Finally, quick note, it seems pretty cage-nerf-esque to give resist to cage to orange inspirations as opposed to, say, break frees. The end result would be teams stocking up on oranges as they (more or less) already do, barely changing their playstyle at all, and gaining cage immunity for at least half a match.
[ QUOTE ]
But now that we're seeing 2-4 sonics + grav cages on a single team, is nobody else seeing that it might start getting out of hand in the near future?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see it getting out of hand. Bringing more cagers has costs to support and damage, which again has been one of the strongest indirect counters to caging because it's a check on the cage's power.
I'd welcome teams to bring 8 sonics or grav/ff's, if that's what you really think we're headed toward, but I highly doubt that that (or anything even remotely close to "out of hand") is going to be a successful lineup.
There are plenty of suggestions that do require teams to give something up to beat cage. Some are wasting their best buff on a caged person (cage resist to AB) or bringing a less common set (cage resist to O2, or decreased duration to a TA debuff). One of the most popular suggestions doesn't actually nerf cage at all, rather it nerfs only the tactic of permacaging by providing suppression or decreasing returns. Most people just think there should be some sort of direct counter to cage, just as there is to every other effect. Burst damage? Heals. Slows? SB or thaw or AB. TK or TP foe? ID. Holds, sleeps, etc? CM and Clarity.
Back in the day people considered more than one cager on a team to be cheesy. Two cagers a team being one of the most standard line ups (meaning on average 1/4 of the people don't actually get to play in most of the match), would be considered out of hand. To say nothing of the 4 cager line up Freaks brought to beat OS, which even by todays jaded standards seems to cross the line for most people. Pretending that something's only out of wack if people bring 8 cagers to an 8v8 is silly and I think you know it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there are even 7 sonics on Guardian. In 10 months, I've never teamed with one.
There is nothing wrong with sonic cage. Is it fun to be repeatedly ASd by waves of Stalkers? I like being able to cage a vill when I need to. It doesn't last as long as it takes to die, hosp, heal, and rejoin the battle.
There are always going to be situations in PvP that are not as fun as we would like. When it stops being fun, go to another zone or server. Thats why we have choices.
[/ QUOTE ]
The discussion is centering more around arena 8v8s than zone pvp. I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough* 
.
When it was a single cager with a 30 sec cage taking one guy out of a match, yeah, it sucked, but it wasn't that big a deal. But now that we're seeing 2-4 sonics + grav cages on a single team, is nobody else seeing that it might start getting out of hand in the near future?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ive seen multiple sonics in matches when cage was 30 seconds long, so don't see your point there. Like I said earlier why should a power be changed when it is only being complained about by a small group of high end arena test SGs? It's not abused in zones, its not abused in small team arena pvp because there are counters namely (slows and to hit debuffs), I haven't seen it abused in 8 vs 8 arena pvp matches on live either.
Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.
I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?
[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of suggestions that do require teams to give something up to beat cage. Some are wasting their best buff on a caged person (cage resist to AB) or bringing a less common set (cage resist to O2, or decreased duration to a TA debuff). One of the most popular suggestions doesn't actually nerf cage at all, rather it nerfs only the tactic of permacaging by providing suppression or decreasing returns. Most people just think there should be some sort of direct counter to cage, just as there is to every other effect. Burst damage? Heals. Slows? SB or thaw or AB. TK or TP foe? ID. Holds, sleeps, etc? CM and Clarity.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since you didn't include "Being perma-caged? <list of things I've already mentioned>", I can only conclude that you're seeking some sort of reactionary counter and disregarding the other forms of counter. Yes, cage doesn't have a reactionary counter -- once you're in, you're in it for the full duration. Is that the problem with cage? Why would that be a problem? It's a "penalty" for not pre-empting in some fashion, like dying to a spike is a penalty for not stocking up on resistance beforehand.
The only other thing I can conclude is that you listed a bunch of applicable buffs as counters. Is your issue with cage that there's no "set and forget" buff? That the only ways to counter it (aside from massive defense buffs / ToHit debuffs on the cagers to make the power miss altogether, which are still valid counters as well) is looking out for oneself instead of waiting for a buffer teammate to make his/her buffing rounds? If so, I'm afraid I don't understand why that's a problem. It seems to bring diversity to the areas of disruption and debuffs.
The point is that there are counters, they're just difficult and take practice to implement. Cages are a good strategy for the same reason anything else is; the actions to counter it are difficult to master. If that is the problem with cage -- that players don't want to take the time to try out and practice mastering the existing counters -- then... eh. That would be a sad state of affairs 
[ QUOTE ]
Back in the day people considered more than one cager on a team to be cheesy. Two cagers a team being one of the most standard line ups (meaning on average 1/4 of the people don't actually get to play in most of the match), would be considered out of hand. To say nothing of the 4 cager line up Freaks brought to beat OS, which even by todays jaded standards seems to cross the line for most people. Pretending that something's only out of wack if people bring 8 cagers to an 8v8 is silly and I think you know it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh. I've always been in favor of teams exploring lineups if it's done for the sake of trying something new (as opposed to, for instance, for the sake of manipulating scores in order to make "random" map selection not random any more), even if they end up getting labeled as silly.
Whether or not someone bringing 2 cagers or 4 cagers or 8 grav/ff's is out of whack doesn't seem relevant, and I wasn't trying to imply that we'd only have an issue with cage if people started bringing teams like that. But the "point" that the lineups of today would be considered "cheesy or cheap" by yesterday's standards doesn't seem to hold any weight. If they would be considered cheating or exploitive, then sure, that would be more relevant to discussion of changing something in the powers.
But the fact that teams have discovered new, effective lineups involving cagers doesn't point to a problem that only the devs can fix. It points to an obstacle for opposing teams that exploration and practice of the existing counters can help them to deal with.
[ QUOTE ]
I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it". 
Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?
[ QUOTE ]
...doesn't seem to hold any weight.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, you keep saying this, so I have to ask, are you the sole determiner of arguments that hold weight?
Because from where I'm sitting, all I see is a guy desperately trying to hold on to a power that he knows good and well is overperforming by belittling and dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Despite your verbose replies, your answers essentially boil down to "l2p n00b", and I find that a bit insulting given the community you're dealing with here.
There's no objective reason for cages to be the only powers in the game that cannot be reactively countered. If you think there is, I'm interested to hear why. So far, all I've heard is "because it'll make my powers suck and I don't want that". Which, in my book, "doesn't seem to hold any weight".
Again, I don't do the whole personal attack on the forums deal, so I'll leave those parts alone.
Objectivity is (or.. should be, I'd hope) what determines which arguments hold weight, which isn't something that either of us decides.
"l2p n00b" is a fairly inaccurate oversimplification of my point of view. I'm just trying to keep possible counters from going overlooked.
[ QUOTE ]
There's no objective reason for cages to be the only powers in the game that cannot be reactively countered. If you think there is, I'm interested to hear why.
[/ QUOTE ]
If that's the argument now -- reactive counters -- then I'll agree that there is no reactive counter (obviously) to being caged. I'm not arguing in favor of cages being "the only powers in the game" with no reactive counter; I'm arguing against interfering with cages because there doesn't seem to be anything broken about it, given that there are other, non-reactive counters to at least substantially cut back on the effectiveness of caging. I'm unsure as to why those counters aren't "enough", since some of them can be used by everyone (and all of them can be used in certain cases, like for instance, on a storm team).
[ QUOTE ]
So far, all I've heard is "because it'll make my powers suck and I don't want that". Which, in my book, "doesn't seem to hold any weight".
[/ QUOTE ]
I've also been exclusively (except using my lol-mind/ff once for fun) on the receiving end of cages, so that's not an argument you've heard from me. I'd also agree with you that it doesn't hold any weight since that's about as subjective as it gets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's no objective reason for cages to be the only powers in the game that cannot be reactively countered. If you think there is, I'm interested to hear why.
[/ QUOTE ]
If that's the argument now -- reactive counters -- then I'll agree that there is no reactive counter (obviously) to being caged. I'm not arguing in favor of cages being "the only powers in the game" with no reactive counter; I'm arguing against interfering with cages because there doesn't seem to be anything broken about it, given that there are other, non-reactive counters to at least substantially cut back on the effectiveness of caging. I'm unsure as to why those counters aren't "enough", since some of them can be used by everyone (and all of them can be used in certain cases, like for instance, on a storm team).
[/ QUOTE ]
I think reactive vs. nonreactive isn't the issue, it's the lack of a specific counter, although again I think that's not the word I'm looking for. Like, ID or oranges are specific counters to tp foe. Neither are reactive though. Killing the tp foer or not staying in a zone where someone has tp foe are general counters.
General counters such as farm the offender, try to evade the cager (which is really tricky considering cage is ranged and non interruptible), or be phased yourself so you can't get caged work against everything and are different. These general counters work against everything in the game. Everything else in the game also has some form of specific counter: sb for slows, CM/Clarity for holds, O2 and insulation for end drain, assault for taunt and placate, ID for repel effects, heals for damage. Caging has no such counter.
You could say "the reason cage doesn't need a counter is because you can't die when you're caged," and that would be a valid argument. Claiming cage isn't out of the norm in its lack of a specific counter isn't, though.
I see. That makes a good bit more sense, at least, though I'm still not sure that cage is so brokenly overpowered as to merit changes.
I have no objection to the claim that there isn't a "specific" counter to cage (as you accurately put it), but I wouldn't support some sort of change because:
1) Diminishing returns still applies; bring whatever team you want, but the fact that one with an excessive amount of cagers isn't going to be successful against one that doesn't (or rather, one that uses cagers in moderation), inherently demonstrates that cage powers alone are not game-breaking.
EDIT: One could say that cage powers "in moderation" coupled with other key team elements is a very powerful lineup, but finding a good lineup is what PvP's been all about. There's a reason we generally don't run scrappers and dark defenders
2) Yes, there's no specific counter, I agree. But between diminishing returns (above), and (as you also pointed out) the fact that one person caged is one person the other team can't get a kill on, and the fact that general counters can and have been used to reduce the effectiveness of cages... I don't see where the power is broken. It's simply outside the norm in one aspect, but not in an aspect that makes it uber or explotive and thus not in an aspect that needs change.
3) This is a bit more subjective and speculative, so disregard if you wish, but I'm generally anti-change on issues like this, as long as there isn't a glaringly exploitive or bugged power. Countless examples of change being a bad thing exist; look what happened when the debt-capped blasters of PvE complained about Defiance 
but like I said, that's kind of a side point.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough* .
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey... I haven't done that in a while... >_>
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough* .
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey... I haven't done that in a while... >_>
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to go into zones on my mind/ff when heroes would mob-gank villains and cage the villains they were about to kill. I'd even send them a friendly tell, letting them know they're free to leave the area without harm >.>
I perma caged a brute for 30 minutes in SC... top that!
[ QUOTE ]
Ive seen multiple sonics in matches when cage was 30 seconds long, so don't see your point there. Like I said earlier why should a power be changed when it is only being complained about by a small group of high end arena test SGs? It's not abused in zones, its not abused in small team arena pvp because there are counters namely (slows and to hit debuffs), I haven't seen it abused in 8 vs 8 arena pvp matches on live either.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be blunt you're not in the right matches if you haven't seen it on live. One reason why the balance team should _always_ pay attention to high end PvP'ers is that they are the most likely to discover problems that can (and often have) drift down into the rest of the game. Another, and this one really bugs me about your post, is that even if we assume your description accurately represented how caging works in 99% of PvP then I'd still want this looked at because most of the suggestions would have zero negative impact. If your PvP experience doesn't include chain caging then almost none of these changes would impact you in the slightest.
One thing that really bothers me is when people, who claim not to be affected by a problem, bring up the waste of time argument when the solutions wouldn't negatively impact them. Are my problems not worth a developer's attention?
[ QUOTE ]
Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.
[/ QUOTE ]
Truth is a [Censored], ain't it?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ive seen multiple sonics in matches when cage was 30 seconds long, so don't see your point there. Like I said earlier why should a power be changed when it is only being complained about by a small group of high end arena test SGs? It's not abused in zones, its not abused in small team arena pvp because there are counters namely (slows and to hit debuffs), I haven't seen it abused in 8 vs 8 arena pvp matches on live either.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be blunt you're not in the right matches if you haven't seen it on live. One reason why the balance team should _always_ pay attention to high end PvP'ers is that they are the most likely to discover problems that can (and often have) drift down into the rest of the game. Another, and this one really bugs me about your post, is that even if we assume your description accurately represented how caging works in 99% of PvP then I'd still want this looked at because most of the suggestions would have zero negative impact. If your PvP experience doesn't include chain caging then almost none of these changes would impact you in the slightest.
One thing that really bothers me is when people, who claim not to be affected by a problem, bring up the waste of time argument when the solutions wouldn't negatively impact them. Are my problems not worth a developer's attention?
[ QUOTE ]
Just put on your tinfoil hats, gather around the campfire and ban it from your ladder. Let the Devs worry about adding more wing sets in the game and not nerfing a power to fit the needs of a few whiney pvp SGs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its late so let me be blunt, go [censored] yourself.
[/ QUOTE ]
Their most be a ton of 8 vs 8 Leagues besides the Infinity one going on then on live Im just not apart off. Ive played on my sonic in all the league matches Ive been apart of. Not once did anyone come close to being perma caged on my team or the oppositions, and the last match I was in, my main cage target still was tied for lead with four kills I believe for his team, the reason being for one Im just as busy debuffing and buffing my teammates, two my sonics isnt IOed for recharge and I try to wait for aim to come back up. Sure if I wanted to I could just follow him and keep him out of the match as long as possible, except my contribution to my team would be minimal and probably not worth having me on.
Here's a gameplay negative impact- I'll use a quick example. Ex- A sonic is trying to get a nuke in WB, hes attacked by em/invun brute, he's not interested in dying and losing his codes, so he cages the brute, now instead of being able to ward off brute with cages when he attacks, suppression kicks in and hes dead after an ET and TF. Theirs a negative impact you just reduced the surviviability of these powersets. Thats just one of the many examples, which can come up on live pvp. Would it affect me personally, no cause lol at zones but it would affect more people than the 10-15 whiners in this thread.
Outside the game impact- The problem maybe affects a group of 50 high end pvpers, out of those 50 I'd say half say leave the power as is from Ajax to W-D to Omega. So you all can't even come to majority decision amongst yourselves. Basically a problem affecting such few shouldn't even be looked at by the Devs, its the reason why costume pieces/power customization/ and crappy sets like Dual Blades come out------------ cause the majority of the paying customers want those above mentioned things. Your in the same group as the Eskimos or Native Americans, you don't hear any presidential hopeful promising anything for either do you. Its the way the world works, deal with it.
Finally, your attempt at being blunt lacks the desired punch I look for, try harder next time, give you A for effort but C minus for execution.
There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.
Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.
Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".
Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months.
*crushes scouter*
THERE'S OVER TWO HUNDRED
[ QUOTE ]
There are over 450 unique accounts involved in either or both of the SG and VG ladders on test. Some of those are people with two or three accounts, but it's not 50 people.
Similarly, 220ish people are signed up for the Test PvP League. A good percentage of them aren't on ladder teams. It effects those players as well.
Not saying these aren't tiny numbers still (they are), but there are way more than 50 people involved in test PvP these days.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really! How many of these are running 4 cager teams and perma caging people. Where are these 450 unique accounts and their voices and sry I dont count Not Putzing and Still Not Putzing as two seperate accounts. A large portion of test pvpers have 2 or alot more than two. So take that 450 and Id cut it in half, then you can cut it down some more by taking those who play sonics and those who are the targets of cage most of the time. I'd say you get 50 people who are actually affected, and I doubt theirs been 30 people in this thread. Out of those 30, a large portion are saying number 5 please. Go back to the drawing board and try again please.
Take my solution to the problem, get the INH togethor and vote to ban sonics or limit them. Then cry about something else. We need more wingsets!
@Panny Nanny - Leader
@Mykonos - Leader
@Ed-Wreck - Leader
@Ed-Wrecked - Leader
@W-D
@WD2
@ir0x0r
@r0x
@Not Putzing - Leader
@Still Not Putzing - Leader
@Goldie1
@Goldie2
@Veronica Venom
@Mickey Slo2
@Cuch
@MF Fire Wire
@Staticus
@Payne Bringer
@Inspector 6
@Inspector 7
@Craggs
@Wastelands
@NRGFX
@Cyco Aura
@helly
@-helly
@helly-
@-Ajax
@El Ajax
@mac daddy b
@mac b
@macnificent b
@Frost
@Labrynth
@Elite
@FooManChu
@hans
@-hans
@Hi-Fi
look at how many multiple accounts from your own roster Putz. Nuff said. Quick look says their is at least 13 people with double, Helly has 3, Ajax who knows how many hes got in there.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still havent seen the following question answered. Why should people who use the power on live for whatever reason have to worry about cage changes/suppression when theirs at tops 3-4 groups who pvp on test who are so called "abusing it". Why have the Devs spend time to change a power to compensate for the playstyle of a group of under 50 players?
[/ QUOTE ]
You're starting to sound like the PvEers who say "Why should the Devs spend any time on PvP when only 1-2% of the populations even participates in it".
Let's just scrap the whole damn thing and go back to farming Dreck and running Shard TFs since nobody really PvPs anyway, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Its the truth though Goldie, what was the last real addition to pvp, lol the Cage map. So now you want Dev attention for a power which affects a miniscule part of pvpers, when pvpers are already a small percentage of paying customers. Its not like we are talking about arena map selection which is nothing but a positive additon, your talking about altering a power which would affect the survivability of a larger number of pvpers. The "bug" portion of it has already been fixed, be thankful for that. The Dev's trying to add cage suppression or diminishing returns probably would set Issue 12 back 2 months.
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand where you're coming from. But keep in mind that it's not like anyone is going to the Devs and saying "Change cage plz". It's just one item on really long list of things to look at. If they decide it's not worth the time or effort, so be it.
Personally, I think the whole concept of caging is a piss poor game mechanic. I can't think of another game that allows you to essentially tell another person, "You don't get to play", at an auto-aimed push of a button. I think it's cheesy as all hell and doesn't belong in a competitive game. But that's just my opinion.
When the community policed itself and multiple cage teams were frowned upon, it wasn't that big a deal. But when you start bringing in 2-4 sonics and multiple gravs, where does it end? In a post-veng stacking world, Sonics bring enough to the table to warrant their place in the lineup even without the ability to perma-cage...so I think the "diminishing returns" thing is a little played out. Their buffs and debuffs are very nice to have around.
If the community or the devs decide that they like things the way they are, that's fine. I've said my piece and will keep on playing. No harm, no foul for asking for what you want.
[ QUOTE ]
.
I don't think there are even 7 sonics on Guardian. In 10 months, I've never teamed with one.
There is nothing wrong with sonic cage. Is it fun to be repeatedly ASd by waves of Stalkers? I like being able to cage a vill when I need to. It doesn't last as long as it takes to die, hosp, heal, and rejoin the battle.
There are always going to be situations in PvP that are not as fun as we would like. When it stops being fun, go to another zone or server. Thats why we have choices.
[/ QUOTE ]
The discussion is centering more around arena 8v8s than zone pvp. I don't think anyone really cares about sonics in zones, although I do know of one evil [censored] on Victory who will perma cage you until you give up and leave the zone. You know who you are *cough*W-Des*cough*
When it was a single cager with a 30 sec cage taking one guy out of a match, yeah, it sucked, but it wasn't that big a deal. But now that we're seeing 2-4 sonics + grav cages on a single team, is nobody else seeing that it might start getting out of hand in the near future?