Discussion: Zero Tolerance RMT Tells and Spam

Just an example of the problem.... Didn't play over the holidays for about a week. Log in.... 10 emails. Sad that even their families doesn't even want them around. They must hate spammers as much as we do

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I found spamming the spammer "STOP SPAMMING JERK%$*!!!" is quite satisfying. If they report me, at least they will be ratting on themselves

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This makes me think of something I was hearing on Discovery Channel "The rise of Video Games". Tho companies(MMOs) do say they are trying to get rid of spammers when actually they allow a few . Dunno if that is true for this game but it would look like they do.

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Agreed.

In the end, how one gets an account dont really matter, they will have to pay the monthly fee once they buy the account.
So yeah, i hardly believe any mmo company have a real "zero tolerance" policy as far as they get more users.

It's plain economics.

City.

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This makes me think of something I was hearing on Discovery Channel "The rise of Video Games". Tho companies(MMOs) do say they are trying to get rid of spammers when actually they allow a few . Dunno if that is true for this game but it would look like they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

In the end, how one gets an account dont really matter, they will have to pay the monthly fee once they buy the account.
So yeah, i hardly believe any mmo company have a real "zero tolerance" policy as far as they get more users.

It's plain economics.

City.

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half and half the spammers come from trail accounts, for the most part so they are not realy paying all that much, the 4 or 5 guys that run the imfamy farms do but i have seen more guys like good dog/ pure girl that get the teamp acccounts get help to lvl there toon quickly then sell there accounts

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To the 'stopping /t and email is a bad idea' crowd...

Make it plain and simple that these will not be allowed for a trial account. Pay up and you get it. Just like you'll get both sides, SG base, etc.

Just one of the 'perks' of being a paying user, ya ask me.

And if gagora, etc. are stupid enough to pay to do it... well, that's more money for NCNC and they'll get baninnated anyway.

Win win, ya ask me.

See, the thing is, it's a 'trial'. In most trials I've been involved with... this means exclusion from certain things as you've not paid for the full version.

30 days before it stops... (XP, Vista)

1 level (Doom, Castle Wolfenstien)

No saving files (editors of various types)

Advanced stuff turned off (many many things)

So, this is just one of the things that you can't do in a trial. You can't email. You can't /t anyone. You can broadcast in zone and you can local talk.

See? No big deal. If the /T and the Email is such a big thing it's a game breaker, and the game can't be sold to the potential buyer on it's extensive other available-during-trial merits...

Man... you too picky then.

Oh, and regarding broadcasting... that would require someone to play through the level of breakout... or skip that and go straight to Atlas Park...

Oh, and another thing that could be done for the trial... limit access to AP, Hollows, Perez, Galaxy if you're less than a level 6. And you top out at level 9. That would force someone to actually PLAY to get anywhere else, and spam their crap.

Again... it's a trial. Trials aren't meant to be full games. You can get over that, no offense to anyone.

And finally, just in case someone doesn't understand the program... We play in a system that is NOT a democracy... but a (mostly) benevolent dictatorship. Just as we are posting in one. The owners of the property can dang well do what they please, whether we want them to or not. It's their call, and their considered opinion. Ergo, these ideas may come down the pipe exactly as I've said it should... or not. It's not my call, is it? Just an idea man here, in this case...

However, since I've posted that, and my *idea* is what it is: mine... I want a cut for it.

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August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012

I just logged in to see what others have been talking about since my post yesterday. Theres so many good ideas and I think they would work out well. At least give it a shot and show the gamers that the GM's are trying to do something.

Now after reading such a huge thread people posting after post. Makes me wonder if its even worth putting any comment on here regarding the spam e-mails and tells. Does this actually help? Do the GM's actually plan to listen and try to use the gamers advice or ideas? Or are we just talking to a wall? I read a few responses to people ideas and I think I could have came up with something better out of my left pinky. I dont see any drive to correct this crap we put up with in a game we play. How hard would it to try some of the posters ideas. Do something at least. Nobody likes to talk to a wall.

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In order for me to spam without using /t or email, the most effective way for me to reach my target audience would be to RMT spam in broadcast in any starting zone or any zone with a consignment house in it.

As for not being able to send email or /tells, yes, that can impact on a trial. Want to be able to tell your friend (the one who sent you the trial code) that you are in-game? With no access to email or to /t, you would have to go out-of-game (external email, phone) to tell them. Some players will find that an inconvenience that doesn't show CoH/V off in its best light. Some won't bother to differentiate between what they can do in a trial and what they can do in the full game.

You can't build in enough barriers to stop RMT spam that won't end up impacting on legitimate users. The only way to stop RMT spam is to make it uneconomical to offer such services in the first place.

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Well . . . I do have one idea, though it won't work if these guys are using stolen credit card information. It works like this:

1. Require a credit card to sign on to the trial (that is, you can't start playing on a trial account until you provide credit card information)

2. If a trial account is determined to be one that's been spamming everybody to high heaven, charge that credit card some astronomical amount as a penalty.

The line of thought is that each time a trial account is determined to have been used for RMT spam, there would be an accompanying penalty charge, which in turn would make doing business so expensive as to not be worth it.

A variation of this could be done with the existing system to some degree: if the free trials created by an existing account are deemed to have been used for RMT spam, that existing account would be charged a penalty for each infraction.

As noted earlier, however, this idea would only work if the RMTer isn't using stolen credit card info. I also strongly suspect that this may lead to some form of griefing or another, and there may be consequences I'm not thinking of as well.

-Kirov

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"To be violent at first and wind up fearing one's people is the epitome of ineptitude."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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You can't build in enough barriers to stop RMT spam that won't end up impacting on legitimate users. The only way to stop RMT spam is to make it uneconomical to offer such services in the first place.

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And yet these are the very suggestions you’re trying to shoot down.

Requiring a paid account in order to send an in-game e-mail means they have to pony up $15 American in order to send out spam. If they do not get at least $15 in business from all the spam e-mails before the account is banned, this makes their “service” uneconomical.

If they have to be a specific level in order to send out tells and/or e-mails, this means that new spam-bots have to actually be played for a period of time. If the cost of playing the character up to the required level (time = cost) is greater than what they make from the “customers” created by the spam, this makes their “service” uneconomical.



And as far as impacting legitimate users is concerned, the spam tells and e-mails are already impacting legitimate customers. So the trick is to make the impact of stopping it less than the impact of having it continue.

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"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter

29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform

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You can't build in enough barriers to stop RMT spam that won't end up impacting on legitimate users. The only way to stop RMT spam is to make it uneconomical to offer such services in the first place.

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And yet these are the very suggestions you’re trying to shoot down.

Requiring a paid account in order to send an in-game e-mail means they have to pony up $15 American in order to send out spam. If they do not get at least $15 in business from all the spam e-mails before the account is banned, this makes their “service” uneconomical.

If they have to be a specific level in order to send out tells and/or e-mails, this means that new spam-bots have to actually be played for a period of time. If the cost of playing the character up to the required level (time = cost) is greater than what they make from the “customers” created by the spam, this makes their “service” uneconomical.



And as far as impacting legitimate users is concerned, the spam tells and e-mails are already impacting legitimate customers. So the trick is to make the impact of stopping it less than the impact of having it continue.

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The other side of that is whether or not being restricted in communication options sees legitimate new players stop themselves from subscribing. It may not in most cases, but having a newbie friend send you a /t with their character name so you can communicate with them is a big help in joining friends together. So another side to the equation is whether of not CoH/V is willing to see some new players walk away by restricting how they can communicate in the game.

And, as I said, if trial accounts can't send /t or emails, the next cheapest option is to appear in AP and spam Broadcast.

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And, as I said, if trial accounts can't send /t or emails, the next cheapest option is to appear in AP and spam Broadcast.

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Which at that point is easier to ignore and report because it's on broadcast. For the reason a lot of players will complain with in minutes of said spammer trying to do it.

Thank you for the time...

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Arc 5299: Magic, Mystery, and Mayhem Updated!! 09/15/09

What I want is the 10,000 volt reply button. Whenever spam is sent, the recipient has the option of frying the sender's computer. But it's just a dream.

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As much as we all love this game, the community needs to wake up and smell the coffee, a great deal of this is the fault of Customer Service/Support. RMT didn't start in this game until about a month before I9 hit, I am sure the reports of this crap were flooding in then, as they still are today. There's a reason it hasn't curtailed and that is, NC benefits from it. I know the diehards, and whatnot already have their Molotov's lit and thrown at this point, but hear me out. NC could easily shut these people down, or at least make them go away, I mean if Microsoft can nuke your 360 by issuing an update to kill modified consoles, there's got to be ways that NC can stop this. I receive at least 5 spam emails a week from these jackholes, why do I continue to get them, because it benefits NC. With I9 the game finally established an economy, albeit a farked up one, it gave the players who got sick of the grind a new end to work towards, making the game just as, or more addictive, keeping that monthly payment coming in to NC's coffers, well things were ridiculously overpriced, not that they still aren't, and people couldn't afford to mess with it, well with the RMT's they finally found a way that would let them, they could just use their real cash to be able to participate in it. While NC's official stance is "we oppose RMT, etc. etc." they're not going to do anything about it, if it has the potential to drive away customers, I mean if the only reason someone still plays this game is because of the economy, but they can't be a viable part of it through game play, they're going to either buy the in-game currency to be able to participate, or leave the game. Now I know some of you are wondering how this is CS/Supports' fault. NC has the worst customer support period. All they care about is your money, in fact I wouldn't be afraid to bet that this post gets deleted, and my account gets suspended or banned, or even worse. Prime example, I found a pretty serious bug, I even narrowed it down for them where it was at, this bug prevented all of my SG members from being able to obtain badges from certain parts of the Holiday event, even if they completed it, it prevents my SG from even using Heavies in RV, over two weeks later, nothing, just canned response from some wage slave who doesn't give a crap. I've had to re-open the ticket numerous times, and the problem still isn't solved. Point, if NC chooses to ignore a serious bug, what makes you think they are going to do something about this problem? NC doesn't care, they just want your money, and all the accolades for making all these "new and wonderful" features for their busted game. Here's an idea, why not fix what you have, instead of trying to pile on things to distract people from noticing the obvious problems. We pay these peoples' salaries, we use our hard earned money to put food on their tables, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads, yet the mass of us just sit complacent, because look over there, they just added a new costume piece. I feel that as a paying customer I should be able to play a game that works, and is free of spam, the rest of you should too. As long as NC is going to benefit from it, you can bet that the problem's going to persist, until it's no longer cost effective to ignore the problem.

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"You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, but you are a tool nonetheless."-American Demon.

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In order for me to spam without using /t or email, the most effective way for me to reach my target audience would be to RMT spam in broadcast in any starting zone or any zone with a consignment house in it.

As for not being able to send email or /tells, yes, that can impact on a trial. Want to be able to tell your friend (the one who sent you the trial code) that you are in-game? With no access to email or to /t, you would have to go out-of-game (external email, phone) to tell them. Some players will find that an inconvenience that doesn't show CoH/V off in its best light. Some won't bother to differentiate between what they can do in a trial and what they can do in the full game.

You can't build in enough barriers to stop RMT spam that won't end up impacting on legitimate users. The only way to stop RMT spam is to make it uneconomical to offer such services in the first place.

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I don't see why you think banning Trail accounts from /t and emails is bad. So they can't /t their friends that they are on. They can't email. Hell, I've played the game for a LONG time and used the email maybe 1 or 2 times. The only legitimate complaint is not being able to /t your friends who may have invited them. Still not a big deal. If they have friends, they can be told by said friends to add their friends to global. Their friends see them on and invite to team, SG, whatever. Then they can talk in team or SG chat.

Is it an inconvenience for the Trial accounts? Yes, but that's the point. The Trials are meant to "entice" and "lure" people to become paying members. It may backfire and piss off a few people in not wanting to play, but if the restriction is a known issue prior to opening a Trial account, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

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The other side of that is whether or not being restricted in communication options sees legitimate new players stop themselves from subscribing. It may not in most cases, but having a newbie friend send you a /t with their character name so you can communicate with them is a big help in joining friends together. So another side to the equation is whether of not CoH/V is willing to see some new players walk away by restricting how they can communicate in the game.


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I addressed this specifically. When I said the following:
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And as far as impacting legitimate users is concerned, the spam tells and e-mails are already impacting legitimate customers. So the trick is to make the impact of stopping it less than the impact of having it continue.

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"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter

29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform

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And, as I said, if trial accounts can't send /t or emails, the next cheapest option is to appear in AP and spam Broadcast.

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Which at that point is easier to ignore and report because it's on broadcast. For the reason a lot of players will complain with in minutes of said spammer trying to do it.

Thank you for the time...

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I report every spam email I get. I'm sure other players do as well. Players could complain all they wanted about a spam sent through Broadcast - it doesn't make CS respond any quicker. If it takes CS an hour (or more) to get back to the issue, that's time the spambot has to advertise its wares. It doesn't matter if 1 person or 100 people complain if CS doesn't get there to deal with it.

Or, if I were a spammer, I'd stand in a Consignment House group and switch between Broadcast and Local (because the CH crowd is arguably a target audience in need of my services). A number of people don't listen to the Broadcast channel, but the Local channel is usually left active.

Seriously, all of the "block trials from this channel" or "don't let them have this functionality" won't work because they are simple and quick to get around. Unless every trial account is cut off from other players (say, locked in Outbreak / Breakout with no access to /t or email) then RMT spamming will continue quickly. SWG tried locking their trial accounts in the tutorial to deal with RMT spam - funnily enough, few new players elected to play past the trial period.

The only way to fix this issue is to Follow The Money. If the devs can't follow the money in-game (and I would have to think they can't, so they can't identify the paid accounts that provide the inf for the RMT transactions) then they have to follow the money out-of-game and make players come to them and their non-spamming RMT services.

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When people talk about the spammers impact upon this game, I remember Blizzard's original online game center (the name escapes me) which allowed a person to be able to play Diablo 2 online. Even though that feature was free, alot of people avoided it simply for the fact that it had gathered a bad reputation for being a place that was easy to crack. Spammers are also high on the list of things that can kill anything online as they drive a community away through sheer annoyance.

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NC could easily shut these people down, or at least make them go away, I mean if Microsoft can nuke your 360 by issuing an update to kill modified consoles

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This is comparing apples to oranges.

Microsoft has far more control over the Xbox than NCsoft has over your PC. When you log onto Xbox live, a system check is made for any suspicious hardware/software. How many people would play CoX if they had to allow NCsoft complete access to their computer prior to login?

Even if that was to happen, the Xbox is easily shut down as Microsoft can gather your MAC address, and to put another NIC in the system would be an unauthorized modification which would easily be detected. Who wouldn't laugh if NCsoft informed you that changing your NIC or other hardware on your computer could cause you to get banned?

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I think we just need to realize this problem will not be handled at all. It doesnt even look like they will even make an effort to give us a option to work on our behalf to rid this.

The best that is going to happen is Nothing! We are going to continue to post on here and wasting our time for something that will not be corrected or even looked at.

I think the only way to really grab this by the balls would be to actual monitor live e-mails and tells sent. That would be a way to catch the people doing this. But again would invade and violate some of the players as well. I dont see how hard it would be have a junk mail option. Not allow ingame e-mails unless they are on your global. Why cant we even get that?? At least it would show the devs at least taking notice and giving us an option for us to choose on our own to filter this out. I want the choice. And for the people that say that we might miss out on an e-mail that was important.. (Please give me a break!!) Thats what real e-mail is for and SG forums messengers voicechat, and e-mails. If there is an event raid SF or anything its always posted on sg site anyways or sent through normal e-mails. not this crap of a system we have in game.

So please put an ingame junk mail filter for friggin sake!!!

So whats your guys input on the junk mail filter? It would be quick and easy. That would be one step in right direction

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NC SOFT could easily get control of this issue.
All they have to do is to get control of the game.

They do this by just getting a few people to make some alts and go around under the radar, incognito and get info on the spam artists.
Have someone in SUpport just go in game, follow the Info, and stand there ingame, while you watch the info in real time as the game logs go by and you watch these guys do this stuff.

They could easily stand around AP and watch as the Mr and Miss Craptastic with names like Asdsdfg, or Rrlelr, or whatever they want to use just stands around, spam E mailing thier crap, and then logs back on with the exact looking straight off the character creator look with another winner name. just so they can do it again.
WTF, anyone who spends any time in AP can see these tools. If the Support could actually do some homework, such as, get one of these tells, themselves, follow the info to the sight, then BLAMMO!~!!!!
they would easily get these jackasses, dead to rights.

WTF, Lighthouse. It doesn't take anything more then a few hours of time, and you can get these crack dealers off the streets.
Of course, you could as well add PVP to the whole game, then we could deal with these guys ourselves, but of course that might be too easy.

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<QR>

The spam emails with the BAD jokes are the worst. And, more recently, the crude and sexually suggestive joke with a punchline about Smurfette has, in my eyes, crossed the line.

Please, PLEASE do something about this!

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<QR>

After writing the above email I went to the um, referred site and found that their 24/7 on-line support was actually "on-line" AND you dont need to register or provide info to use the support window.... I am upset at how civil I was to be honest. Here is the chat;

Joe Customer:
Why does your company see fit to send sexually explicit jokes to my in-game email accounts?

Welcome Joe Customer! Your request has been directed to the Customer service department. Please wait for our operator to answer your call.

Call accepted by operator Gagora. Currently in room: Gagora, Joe Customer.

Joe Customer:
I came here having just read the email. Simply filth. Even a teen rated game would see this as being beyond proper

Gagora:
i am sorry

Gagora:
it must be my staff made a mistake

Gagora:
i will warm them, okay, we will never do it again

Joe Customer:
OH?

Gagora:
yeah

Gagora:
i promise it won't happen again

Gagora:
sorry for that

Joe Customer:
I will be quite impressed if that is the case...... why do I doubt it?

Didnt get any more outta the person. Hmmmm, I hope that opening that chat window didnt infect my computer with some virus. I feel dirty!

Seriously was suprised they answered. If no virus comes up from that chat I will be making it a point to head directly there to bother them everytime they see fit to bother me.

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First off, let me say that this post is not meant to be RACIST. This is a post wondering if this has to do with location and whether email/legal restrictions are different in the country of origin.

All three sites are based in China. I checked the online registries. In all three instances, the owners live in China, and as far as I can tell, the sites are hosted there as well. (Two appear to be hosted there - the third is running his/her own server, or at least is using his/her own nameservers, which makes it harder to tell. I haven't finished running down IP addresses yet.)

It's entirely possible (although not in the least excusable) that the spam origination laws are different over there than here. HERE, what constitutes email spam has been LEGALLY defined by government agencies.

I did, however, email the owners of all three domains yesterday letting them know that I have begun submitting complaints to their domain registrars, their hosting companies, and their email providers, as well as to NCSoft. Those complaint emails included the owners' names, addresses, email addresses, and phone numbers, as well as screenshots of the in-game emails and tells I've started collecting.

Should be interesting to see if any of them respond.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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Here is the real Hero in City of !!!!

This is three flavors of cool!!! Great job on that one, Dark-

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All three sites are based in China. I checked the online registries. In all three instances, the owners live in China, and as far as I can tell, the sites are hosted there as well

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The sites are hosted in Canada from what I have been able to gather. But, the owners themselves are from China. Then again, they could be Canadian and simply manipulating the whois to show that they are from China (i.e registering it with a dummy corp in China which can be done).

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It's entirely possible (although not in the least excusable) that the spam origination laws are different over there than here. HERE, what constitutes email spam has been LEGALLY defined by government agencies

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China is *way* behind the curve when it comes to any sort of laws governing the internet. The only basic law there is not to criticize the government. Moreso, China is one of the worst places in the world (it might even be the worst now) when it comes to malware. Still, the spammers could all be based in Canada (which has laws similar to the U.S regarding spam and copyright), and trying to make it appear to be from China. Only the people who have access to the logs of IPs that login (which can also be faked due to proxys) can give any sort of clue.

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Oh, I'd laugh if they were dumb enough to falsify WhoIs domain ownership info. Because if that ever gets proven, goodbye domain name...

Hmmmmmmmmm. New source of ideas.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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