[ QUOTE ]
In regards to the list's purpose, I thought you'd already identified that with this post:
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Well, the time has come for the final draft before I repost the list, ask for it to be stickied, and ask the devs to come and look at it. So, it's your last chance to give it a good going over! The next post is the new version of the list, and all the changes are in the post after that.
[/ QUOTE ]
The implication of the bolded section is you're hoping the devs will look at the issues and make changes or justify their decisions as 'working as intended'.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be nice, but it's only part of the purpose of the list, as explained in the introductory sections. If I were a dev "warnings to new players" is something I'd want to see.
[ QUOTE ]
As I've argued, there's nothing wrong with the power other than its use requires sound tactics. If that's an issue, then you could probably double the size of the list as there are plenty of powers that will get you killed if you use them improperly or in an untimely fashion.
[/ QUOTE ]
What other power has the potential to get you killed like the AoE immobs?
[ QUOTE ]
Last point I'll make. AoE immobs have gained in recognition for their ability to slot procs, their use in gaining recharge IO bonuses,
[/ QUOTE ]
These are nice, but don't change the basic nature of the power. Taking a power purely for set bonus is usually a bad idea.
[ QUOTE ]
and for their potential in multiple AV encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen no evidence of this actually in action.
[ QUOTE ]
All of those areas argue for these powers to actually be useful in many builds. These new uses were not available at the time of the original list and warrant a fresh look at the immobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, looking at these issues is always good. However, these don't change anything as stated in the issues list.
[ QUOTE ]
'Evolution or extinction' is a proverb I'm found of and fits the bill here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I on the other hand abhor such statements, they can be used to justify almost anything. For instance, the AoE immobs had best evolve or Dominators will become extinct.
Back to the issue at hand, perhaps we could look at it from another angle:
<ul type="square">[*]Do you believe the statements in that issue to be true? (Ignoring if it's an issue or not.)[*]If the game were in Beta, would you change anything about the powers based on that feedback?[*]Of your Dominators, how many have their AoE immobs, when did they take them, and how much do they use them?[*]What advice do you dispense to new Dominators on the subject of AoE immobs?[*]What would you think of this hypothetical fix: Swap Roots with Seeds of Confusion, swap Fire Cages with Flashfire, swap Frostbite with Ice Slick, swap Crushing Field with Wormhole?[/list]
[ QUOTE ]
What other power has the potential to get you killed like the AoE immobs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fireball. Probably our PPP targeted AOE blasts too if anyone ever took them. Open with one of those bad boys and feel the pain. And our snipe is a handy thing too, 'inform' the brute you are initiating an AV fight by entering the sniping pose is usually a sure fire face plant. And with the perception radius on the rogue Vanguard, the movement keys seem to be enough of a death sentence.
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What other power has the potential to get you killed like the AoE immobs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fireball.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference between Fireball and the AoE immobs is 1]Area, 2] Fireball says "come over here and kill me", while the immobs say "stand right there and kill me immediately"
[ QUOTE ]
Probably our PPP targeted AOE blasts too if anyone ever took them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I think they'd just stand there and laugh.
[ QUOTE ]
Open with one of those bad boys and feel the pain. And our snipe is a handy thing too, 'inform' the brute you are initiating an AV fight by entering the sniping pose is usually a sure fire face plant.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done this by accident a few times in the RSF when I was building Domination with it. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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What other power has the potential to get you killed like the AoE immobs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fireball.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference between Fireball and the AoE immobs is 1]Area, 2] Fireball says "come over here and kill me", while the immobs say "stand right there and kill me immediately"
[/ QUOTE ]
You only asked for a listing of other powers that get you killed like an aoe immob, you didn't explicitely enumerate the ways it gets you killed.
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Probably our PPP targeted AOE blasts too if anyone ever took them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I think they'd just stand there and laugh.
[/ QUOTE ]
So many critters in CoX are humorically-challenged.
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And our snipe is a handy thing too, 'inform' the brute you are initiating an AV fight by entering the sniping pose is usually a sure fire face plant.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done this by accident a few times in the RSF when I was building Domination with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
One of my SG's defenders says it helps keep the tanks on their toes. I just figure it is because he is carrying too many rez insps. 
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
What other power has the potential to get you killed like the AoE immobs?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fireball.
Rain of Fire.
Lightning Field.
Blazing Aura.
Ball Lightning.
Gale.
Force Bubble.
Snow Storm.
Challenge.
Provoke.
Sunless Mire.
Assassin's Blade/Claw/Blow/Eclipse/Impaler.
etc.
Edit: Damn you, Grace!
[ QUOTE ][*]Of your Dominators, how many have their AoE immobs, when did they take them, and how much do they use them?
[/ QUOTE ]
L47 Mind/psi: No AoE immob available.
L28 Grav/Nrg: Taken L18, Proc'd. Spammed like a lunatic.
L50 Plant/fire: Taken L30. 2 slots, ACC. Used after every toss of SoC, and to keep mobs in place for AoE's.
L50 Fire/psi: Taken L4. 3 slots, ACC/END. Used after Flashfire, spammed before I got shockwave.
L20 Fire/fire: Not taken yet.
L26 Ice/ice: Not taken yet.
[ QUOTE ][*]What would you think of this hypothetical fix: Swap Roots with Seeds of Confusion, swap Fire Cages with Flashfire, swap Frostbite with Ice Slick, swap Crushing Field with Wormhole?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say mind gets seriously screwed.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Challenge.
Provoke.
[/ QUOTE ]
LMAO
[qr]
I'd like to add some observations about Plant Control.
[*] Entangle/ Strangle works at any height, however, if the foes are above a certain height (i assume melee range 5-15 ft) then the Hold/ Immobilization will not work. I used both on a targets that con'd Red during a mission. 1 foe on the ground was held/immob when the foe above him continued to attack. [clarification: I had 1 layer of tactics from a MM and Forge so my accuracy was consistant during the missions.]
[*] Entangle/Strangle/Roots should have a -Def component like Earth Control. Dispite Buffs/Debuffs being Controller oriented, the powers produce the same effect as Earth Control. All other attacks with Lethal damage have a -Def component why doesn't Plant Control.
-The Elite-[50's]Va'Leria�X'hian�Stormy Monday�Radical Burn�Mo'Mentum�Heat-Source�Professor Blaze
-World Wide Evil, Inc-[50s]Soulfire�Perma.Frost�Kold Soul�Foxphyre�Pitch-Black�Corrupt Fusion�Cassanova Brown�Tyler Thorn�Iron Siren�Solaura�Fortunauta Wade�Look'Alike�Arctic Engineer
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All other attacks with Lethal damage have a -Def component why doesn't Plant Control.
[/ QUOTE ]Spines (like, the Stalker/Scrapper set) doesn't. Most of Dual Blades doesn't. Battle Axe doesn't. Most of Claws doesn't. Archery doesn't. Thugs don't.
Plant Control isn't the exception, here. It's a little disappointing that it's limited to on-the-ground targets and it doesn't get a secondary effect for that, but it gets some other tools that make up for it, I think.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
anyway we have thorn for the -def.
Okay, um, sorry about swinging back and forth on this issue.
For Fling Thorns, it is doing too little Lethal Damage.
Got another issue to the list.
[ QUOTE ]
Throw Spines
Range 30
End Cost 13
Recharge 12
Arc 90 degrees
68.19 lethal damage + 5 * 6.26 toxic damage at level 50
-40% Movementspeed for 15 seconds
-16% Recharge for 10 seconds
Fling Thorns
Range 30
End COst 13
Recharge 12
Arc 90 degrees
32.53 lethal damage + 5 * 3.61 toxic damage at level 50
-15% Defense for 8 seconds.
Scrapper modifier at 50 = -62.56
Dominator modifier at 50 = -36.15
Throw Spines is a 1.09 Lethal Scalar with five ticks of 0.1 Toxic Scalar.
Fling Thorns is 0.90 Lethal Scalar with five ticks of 0.1 Toxic Scalar.
[/ QUOTE ]
I posted this in one of Ultimus' threads.
The important part is that Throw Spines is Scalar 1.09 for 13 Endurance and 12 Recharge, while Fling Thorns is Scalar 0.90 for 13 Endurance and 12 Recharge. They both have the same toxic dot (which is a secondary effect).
So, I'm sorry earlier about disagreeing with that issue on the list, and then now changing my stance to agreeing with it.
So, Fling Thorns is competitive with Fire Breath, but, Fling Thorns isn't balanced correctly. Somehow, I get the feeling this is gonna be one of those "broken on purpose" (like, Psychic Shockwave).
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
Heh. Now here's something that'll really fry your brain:
I'm pretty sure Trow Spinez is actually overperforming. Take a gander at Shockwave from the Claws set. Its recharge is longer (from a set whose "bonus" is reduced Recharge and End costs) for less damage. Range and arc are the same for each power. What's really weird about all this is that the "proper" end cost for Shockwave would have been 13 End in the first place, which is what we've got for Fling Thorns.
(Also, if you care to notice, Scrapper Impale apparently costs a mere 5.2 End, which is absurd because it's a higher scalar attack than ours, and ours costs 6.86 End.)
So... ok, where are we left in all this madness, then? Well, as it was revealed by Iakona some time before he left (and unfortunately, this post has since been purged... T_T), the devs' normal balance procedure for AoE attacks was to prorate them as if they always hit a certain number of targets based upon their area of effect. In other words: larger area attacks that did comparable damage to other powers were given higher costs.
Psi Scream (the other 12s recharge cone) has an effective area of 942 sqft. Fling Thorns has an effective area of 706 sqft. So unless the devs really did intend for the Toxic DoT to count as part of the "main" damage of the attack, Psi Scream should actually be the power that has the higher End cost, not Fling Thorns.
At the least the End cost should be reduced. IMO, /Thorns has its AoE spread out enough that increasing the damage to Fling Thorns would help the set out quite a bit.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
Hmm, good point, lemme plug in the values into the formulas real quick.
Endurance Cost = Damage Scalar * 5.2 * AoE Modifier
Recharge Time = ((Damage Scalar * AoE Modifier) - 0.36) / 0.16
If we try.. AoE modifier = 2.5 for Scrapper Spines we get:
1.09 * 5.2 * 2.5 = 14.17
((1.09 * 2.5)-0.36)/0.16=14.7
So, that's not the right modifier.
1.09 * 5.2 * 2.25 = 12.75
((1.09*2.25)-0.36)/0.16=13
So, we get close to the correct Endurance Cost, but, the Recharge time is wrong still for Throw Spines. Also note, most AoE's use a 2.5 balancer.
Applying this to Fling Thorns for Doms.
0.9 * 5.2 * 2.5 = 11.7
((0.9 * 2.5)-0.36)/0.16=11.81
Which is definitely not the right modifier, and we'd have to increase the modifier to get it "correct".
Looking at Claws Shockwave.
Shockwave damage is 62.56, Recharge of 12.1 (15.125 with the "secondary effect" factored out), and Endurance of 10.52 (13.15 with the "secondary effect" factored out).
Damage Scalar is 1.0 on the mark, formulas are:
1.0 * 5.2 * 2.5 = 13
((1.0 * 2.5)-0.36)/0.16=13.375
So, even Shockwave is costing more than it should Recharge time wise. It's endurance is coming out to be correct.
So, Throw Spines is over-performing, with both Fling Thorns and Shockwave under-performing. That is, if they're intended to be balanced around hitting 2.5 enemies (The AoE modifier).
As far as the Scrapper Impale (Which is the same damage scalar as Focus!) I pm'd that along with Focus, and Vengeful Slice to Castle if it was intended for Impale to be 5.2 endurance and for Vengeful Slice to do the same damage as Focus and Impale despite being AoE AND a DoT (The DoT length is approximately the same duration as Burst from Assault Rifle, and yet Burst has a 9% damage bonus or so for being a DoT). He didn't reply back to me at all.
Oh, and Hurl/Hurl Boulder, have the same damage scalar as Impale, Focus, and Vengeful Slice. But, they cost MORE endurance than the Focus/Vengeful Slice. (Talking about with Focus factored out the endurance discount it's the same cost as Vengeful Slice)
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
[ QUOTE ]
... I pm'd that along with Focus, and Vengeful Slice to Castle if it was intended for Impale to be 5.2 endurance and for Vengeful Slice to do the same damage as Focus and Impale despite being AoE AND a DoT (The DoT length is approximately the same duration as Burst from Assault Rifle, and yet Burst has a 9% damage bonus or so for being a DoT). He didn't reply back to me at all.
[/ QUOTE ]He's busy, right now. Give him a couple days.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
TK thrust still needs its animation time seriously reduced.
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[ QUOTE ]
... I pm'd that along with Focus, and Vengeful Slice to Castle if it was intended for Impale to be 5.2 endurance and for Vengeful Slice to do the same damage as Focus and Impale despite being AoE AND a DoT (The DoT length is approximately the same duration as Burst from Assault Rifle, and yet Burst has a 9% damage bonus or so for being a DoT). He didn't reply back to me at all.
[/ QUOTE ]He's busy, right now. Give him a couple days.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, apparently you misunderstood why I PM'd him about it. Vengeful Slice is a DUAL BLADES POWER. And it's currently under-performing compared to Focus and Impale by a rather wide margin.
It opens up at the same level that Focus opens up, but it's melee Range, a DoT, and a longer animation than Focus. It's anim time is approximately similar to Impale, but, Vengeful Slice lacks -Fly, -Speed, -Recharge, and 100% chance for Immobilize like Impale. Impale also costs less endurance than Vengeful Slice even though Spines doesn't get "reduced endurance cost" like Claws.
Basically, I was lobbying for an increase in Vengeful Slice's damage, or at least having it gain -Fly since Air Superior causes a redraw on Dual Blades, and as we all know that hurts the DPS of Dual Blades.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
The (surprise) I11 lowered activation times has made Flares for /fire a heck of a lot better. As mainly an /energy dominator, I'm enjoying the change to power bolt too. Maybe Flares can finally come off of the list, it's really a lot better now!
There is however one small thing, and I bet every /energy dominator is sending bug reports in right now.
It would seem that they simply copied over the changed power bolt power after having it's activation time changed from blaster etc sets to dominators. The amount of testing performed is dubious... mainly because it's bright blue... I'm gonna go run around RWZ and pretend to be a hero!
Oh, jeez... they left with the bright blue? Damnit! I thought the dev's learned not to rush issues before >.< We /bug'd that a ton when it was on the test server.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
Isn't Energy Blast blue for Corruptors, anyway? Maybe that's why they missed it?
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
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Isn't Energy Blast blue for Corruptors, anyway? Maybe that's why they missed it?
[/ QUOTE ]
But.. we /bug'd.. >.<
Explained that it was the dominator version of Power Bolt that was supposed to be red but was blue due to the animation tweak.
Well, at least they fixed Power Blast from having the exact same animation of Power Bolt.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
[ QUOTE ]
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Isn't Energy Blast blue for Corruptors, anyway? Maybe that's why they missed it?
[/ QUOTE ]
But.. we /bug'd.. >.<
Explained that it was the dominator version of Power Bolt that was supposed to be red but was blue due to the animation tweak.
Well, at least they fixed Power Blast from having the exact same animation of Power Bolt.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is mentioned in the dialogue that pops up when you log in, so no good reason to add it to the list. I'm sure they'll fix it soon enough.
Too true! I'm sure it'll only be a few weeks -_- until they fix it, hehe.
However, what do people now think about the much more amienable activation time for flares? Talking wrt to Fiery assaults only entry in the issues list;
"Flares activation time is too long."
Pretty sure this has *finally* been addressed, albeit indirectly I think.
[ QUOTE ]
"Flares activation time is too long."
[/ QUOTE ]
The animation is changed in Issue 11 (not sure if this was before 11, I've been leveling my daughter's dress up brute to get fly/wings).
Flares are back in baby! Now, off to the disco!
There's a much newer version of the list a couple of pages back, which is already updated for Flares. New list coming soon.
I feel that pet recharges are too long for dominators since they don't have any good ways of buffing their pet's survivability. You put the recharge part in pvp, but I see it as a pve issue too. Also, you said, "Power Boost recharge feels too long, and does not seem to follow standard rules when compared to Blaster and Controller versions." I disagree, the recharge seems just fine when compared to other similar buffs. Blasters can't make as much use of power boost as a dominator can so their recharge and power boost magnitude is lower. Controllers also, don't get as high of a power boost magnitude, but they don't need it since BOTH their primaries and secondaries can take advantage of it while in use. It seems to be balanced IMO.
(for pets I'm including patron pets)
*Also, wasn't there a thread about Carrion's problem's with IOs? I think that should be included. Also, do other pets besides fly trap wake up enemies?
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tell that to controllers that can't debuff.
[/ QUOTE ]What, all two of 'em? Ok.
Dear Empathy Controllers,
I am sorry that you have to eat the full accuracy penalty on all of your AoE controls. I'm sure that makes your early life very difficult, given that all you have to contribute at those levels are these tools us poor saps the Dominators make do with plus the hands-down most-valued Buff set in the game. With two heals in the early levels where they're incredibly visible, it must be a harsh burden to bear, occasionally being the difference between a successful Sewer team and an unsuccessful one. I'm sorry that it's so easy for you to get teams in the early levels because low-level players put so much more emphasis on Heals than they do on anything else. It must make that decision between Fortitude and Stamina at level 20 just that much harder.
Sincerely,
- Kane
-fumbles around his desk for a minute. gets another sheet of paper and a better pen.-
Dear Force Field Controllers,
I'm sorry you picked Force Field as your secondary. No, seriously, I feel for you from the bottom of my heart. It must burn that the only three powers in your secondary which are demonstrably superior to the Mastermind versions are also simultaneously the weakest and most useless powers in your secondary. I know if that happened to me, I'd lose sleep over it almost every night. But, look on the bright side: if you chose Fire or Earth control as your primary, you have a second ranged AoE stun to stack on top of the one in your primary. In fact, as I understand it, you can actually make your version of it perma against even-cons go you! That may be only a small comfort if you happen to know that Storm Summoning has a PBAoE power which does the same thing without the requisite knockback, but it's best not to dwell on these things. And, hey, at least you can "stealth" missions with relative ease, thanks to that forced pick of Personal Force Field. And seriously I really do feel for you guys. Maybe your next Controller won't suck as much.
Sincerely,
- Kane
[/ QUOTE ]
Your snark doesn't make me wrong, 2 is still more than 0. And imo after leveling several doms and trolls to 50 both ats play just fine to me. Not sure why so many doms seem to still be having an inferiority complex , but to each his own I guess.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.