I've spun the PvP issues off into their own thread in an attempt to gain more support.
I knew there was something wrong with Incinerate for Fiery Assault for a long time, but I just couldn't place my finger on what it is... I finally figured it out though.
Brute Incinerate:
104.3 Fire Damage
10s Rech
6.86 End Cost
Dominator Incinerate:
75.1 Fire Damage
8s Rech
8.53 End Cost
Brute Cremate
26.7 Smash + 41.7 Fire (68.4 total) + 0-4 ticks of 4.17 Fire
8s Rech
8.53 End Cost
As can be seen here, the Dominator Version of Incinerate is costing more endurance than it should be. I love Incinerate on my Brute, mainly because of its disgustingly effective DPE. However, the Dominator Version of Incinerate doesn't have that Endurance Discount.
Now, it is my understanding that the current AT modifiers, both Brutes and Dominators have the same unenhanced damage for equal DS attacks. As such, either Dominators need to have their Incinerate replaced with the exact version as the Brutes Incinerate, or it should have Incinerate replaced with Cremate.
I understand that sets need to be balanced within themselves, however, when a power is duplicated across an AT, if it has something 'special' about it it should keep that specialness. I'd rate this discrepancy as equal to the discrepancy in Total Focus being only a mag 3 Stun for Dominators.
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anyway nobody can tell me why ice swords do not bother with redraw?
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Not sure what you mean here. There are currently discussions about redraw animations going on, probably in the general forum. I'd rather not get the issues list involved in that.
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I think he meant as why isn't Ice Sword affected by the Redraw Issue.
Now, I'm not going into the discussion about if there is such Redraw Issue or if it ever existed for that matter;
Either way, the answer is pretty simple: Ice Sword is not designed as a weapon power. As in, you don't "draw an ice sword", you instantly "summon" it from thin air on the go, without a proper draw animation, thus making such powers 100% immune to draw animation time-related issues.
An easy way to see what in hell I mean is to make a Stone Melee Brute, when you use the 2 mallet attacks in sequence, the first mallet will crumble in the split of a second and the second one will instantly appear in its place; it's hard to see, but can be noticed due to the crumbling rocks effect.
I believe that Ice Sword and Ice Sword Circle should follow the same "destroy and re-appear" pattern.
Do note that it is supposing that such powers have even half similar codes to weapon powers (as in "make [X graphical object] appear in hand -> move arm to [Y position] + execute [Z effect] to make it look like you hit your foe with [X graphical object]", where weapon sets have an animation and a timer related to the "make [X graphical object] appear in hand" part and the 'weapon powers' in non-weapon sets have no/close to none animation nor timer related to it).
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I understand that sets need to be balanced within themselves, however, when a power is duplicated across an AT, if it has something 'special' about it it should keep that specialness. I'd rate this discrepancy as equal to the discrepancy in Total Focus being only a mag 3 Stun for Dominators.
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It looks like they simply normalized the first melee attacks, for whatever reason.
Which also explains "not-so-great" ice sword.
In the tanker set (the only other set to get both), IS does less damage but recharges more quickly, whereas GIS was a straight port.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Are you certain the dom model is the wrong one and the brute model shouldn't cost more?
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
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Are you certain the dom model is the wrong one and the brute model shouldn't cost more?
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Tank Incinerate costs the same as the Brute version so it looks like it's the Dom version that's out of whack.
Also, this isn't really Dominator specific but Consume stinks. It should either have the same recharge time as Power Sink (60 seconds instead of 180 seconds) or the same damage as Dark Consumption (~32 base damage instead of ~16 base damage adjusted to Dom melee damage).
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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I understand that sets need to be balanced within themselves, however, when a power is duplicated across an AT, if it has something 'special' about it it should keep that specialness. I'd rate this discrepancy as equal to the discrepancy in Total Focus being only a mag 3 Stun for Dominators.
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It looks like they simply normalized the first melee attacks, for whatever reason.
[/ QUOTE ]That's exactly what happened. Except for the animation, Skewer is almost nothing like Lunge. My guess would be that it's a sort of a balance buffer: so long as they've all got a strong hitter in the Tier 2 slot, they can't be too far off in terms of damage potential.
The problem here is that Incinerate is all DoT (and it's a long DoT timer, too) in exchange for about 10% more damage. That's not a whole lot, really. Compare Fire Breath to Frost Breath: both of them act as DoT's, but Fire Breath gets 25% more damage just because it's Fire.
I think either a damage increase or an End discount on Incinerate would be in order.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
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I think either a damage increase or an End discount on Incinerate would be in order.
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Because fire needs the help? 
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
As much as Psi did when the Devs finally fixed the End discrepancy with Psi Dart, yeah.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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As much as Psi did when the Devs finally fixed the End discrepancy with Psi Dart, yeah.
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Should they also fix ice sword to match the tanker set, to be consistent?
<Shrug>
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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As much as Psi did when the Devs finally fixed the End discrepancy with Psi Dart, yeah.
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Should they also fix ice sword to match the tanker set, to be consistent?
<Shrug>
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Dominator Ice Sword costs more Endurance than Tanker Ice Sword because Dominator Ice Sword does more damage and has a longer recharge. If you then look at Blaster Ice Sword, it has a longer recharge and more damage along with higher endurance cost compared to Dominator Ice Sword.
Dominator Incinerate costs more Endurance than Brute/Tanker Incinerate, has a SHORTER Recharge, and has LOWER Damage.
That's where the problem lies in.
Perhaps I should have broken it down into Damage Scale to better show my point..
Incinerate for Tankers and Brutes does not follow the rule of DS*5.2 = End Cost. When Dominator Incinerate IS following DS*5.2 = End Cost. While all versions of Ice Sword are properly following DS*5.2 = End Cost.
It always been my thinking that the reason Incinerate has such a low end cost was because of that 4.6 duration DoT. If the dev's are going to be unwilling to give us that Endurance Discount, then give us Cremate instead. On average, Cremate will do the same damage as Incinerate, sometimes less sometimes more depending on the luck of the roll but at least Fire wouldn't be ham-stringed by a long DoT that is not costing the "right" amount compared to other versions.
The thing that really boggles my mind about this.. Is how the heck did they justify Psychic Shockwave breaking the AoE rules so thoroughly, when they didn't even allow Fire to have a proper Incinerate?
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As much as Psi did when the Devs finally fixed the End discrepancy with Psi Dart, yeah.
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Should they also fix ice sword to match the tanker set, to be consistent?
<Shrug>
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Dominator Ice Sword costs more Endurance than Tanker Ice Sword because Dominator Ice Sword does more damage and has a longer recharge. If you then look at Blaster Ice Sword, it has a longer recharge and more damage along with higher endurance cost compared to Dominator Ice Sword.
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Yes, which means that, currently, dominator IS is more DPA efficient than tanker IS.
If tanker sets are to be the "base", then dominator ice sword should have the lower damage, faster recharge... no?
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Dominator Incinerate costs more Endurance than Brute/Tanker Incinerate, has a SHORTER Recharge, and has LOWER Damage.
That's where the problem lies in.
Perhaps I should have broken it down into Damage Scale to better show my point..
Incinerate for Tankers and Brutes does not follow the rule of DS*5.2 = End Cost. When Dominator Incinerate IS following DS*5.2 = End Cost. While all versions of Ice Sword are properly following DS*5.2 = End Cost.
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Which means it's tanker/brute incinerate that's technically "busted", not the dominator one.
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It always been my thinking that the reason Incinerate has such a low end cost was because of that 4.6 duration DoT.
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Possibly. IIRC, Shadow Maul gets the cone effect for free.
OTOH, look at the immobilizes...
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If the dev's are going to be unwilling to give us that Endurance Discount, then give us Cremate instead. On average, Cremate will do the same damage as Incinerate, sometimes less sometimes more depending on the luck of the roll but at least Fire wouldn't be ham-stringed by a long DoT that is not costing the "right" amount compared to other versions.
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Fire... ham-strung...
See, that's the part I don't buy, even if the numbers are right. 
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The thing that really boggles my mind about this.. Is how the heck did they justify Psychic Shockwave breaking the AoE rules so thoroughly, when they didn't even allow Fire to have a proper Incinerate?
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Like I said before, I think they simply normalized all the first melee attacks. Fire probably got incinerate instead of fire sword simply for aesthetic reasons - they didn't want two sword sets.
Psi-Shockwave? I suggest a drinking binge... or, maybe, they figured out just how bad some of the high-level psi-resists/defenses were and over-compensated.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
I would have preferred Fire Sword and Greater Fire Sword in the Dominator set to be honest.
And, actually, yes I do think Incinerate needs to be changed.. I rarely use it on my /Fire Dominator, and now I know why. Incinerate does not feel right for being Incinerate.. If it was Cremate instead, I wouldn't have an objection.
I highly doubt that the devs are going to change Tanker and Brute Incinerate to cost the right amount. And as such it should be the Dominator version that gets changed.
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I think either a damage increase or an End discount on Incinerate would be in order.
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Because fire needs the help?
[/ QUOTE ]In the early levels, yeah, I think so. Flares blows, man. 
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
Yah, I agree as well. Incinerate could really use that better DPE it should have.
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I think either a damage increase or an End discount on Incinerate would be in order.
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Because fire needs the help?
[/ QUOTE ]In the early levels, yeah, I think so. Flares blows, man.
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Yeah, those first 3 levels are really rough...
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
I dunno, my Plant/Fire doesn't feel like she's got a good attack yet at level 10, and I doubt Combustion or Blazing Bolt are going to fit that bill, either. Then again, maybe Fire Blast/Fire Breath will qualify once I've got Fiery Embrace. -shrug-
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
From the PvP issues discussion, this belongs in the regular section:
Strangler is severely disadvantaged in PvP because an enemy that just keeps jumping will not be affected at all.
The thread is flaming, and without a red-name post. woo hoo!
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Also, this isn't really Dominator specific but Consume stinks. It should either have the same recharge time as Power Sink (60 seconds instead of 180 seconds) or the same damage as Dark Consumption (~32 base damage instead of ~16 base damage adjusted to Dom melee damage).
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Consume has the low endurance cost, like Dark Consumption, which is extremely useful in the face of endurance draining enemies, but it has a much larger radius, 20ft instead of 8ft. It would be nice if it recharged faster, but it's not all that bad.
Have no idea if this is already in the list, but Propel shows different objects to different players. All of those brilliant jokes, wasted!
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Have no idea if this is already in the list, but Propel shows different objects to different players. All of those brilliant jokes, wasted!
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The dev's have commented on this before. The server doesn't send the data for what object is used, nor how the objects move. (So, you could push a car to one side, and someone would see a trash can on the other side).
Reasoning being that it would bog down the servers to have all of that controlled server side when not everyone has the Particle Physics running.
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Minor issue, but it's a bug I've been able to duplicate:
If you're in flight and not moving (that part's important), then if you fire Whirling Hands, the character glitches out after the animation. You'll spasm every second or two with your arms out. It goes away once the pink pom-poms fade on their own, or if you move at all (or your character plays any other animation for any reason, including the "dodge/weave" movement when an enemy attacks you).
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
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Minor issue, but it's a bug I've been able to duplicate:
If you're in flight and not moving (that part's important), then if you fire Whirling Hands, the character glitches out after the animation. You'll spasm every second or two with your arms out. It goes away once the pink pom-poms fade on their own, or if you move at all (or your character plays any other animation for any reason, including the "dodge/weave" movement when an enemy attacks you).
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Confirmed, nice find.
My comments on these issues:
[ QUOTE ][*]Break Frees are easily available and significantly affect the performance of our primary sets. There is no counter-inspiration for a Break Free.
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Now that Domination is actually usable in PvP, I don't think this is really an issue.
[ QUOTE ][*]Having high damage powers late in the secondary makes the Dominator weak when malefactored for PvP.
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I agree that this should stay, but maybe with slight wording change, referencing that they are staple attacks.
[ QUOTE ][*]Suppressing extra player graphics suppresses our graphics on enemy players. This makes it difficult to see what is happening.
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[ QUOTE ][*]Does suppressing extra player graphics still suppress mez animations on PvP enemies? (MightyIsis June 19th)
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Can anyone confirm if this is still a problem?
[ QUOTE ][*]The sound and visuals associated with Domination (the rainbow glow and big bang) are problematic in PvP, because they make it far too obvious when the Dominator has become a threat. Glowing before Domination has even been activated is particularly problematic.
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I have no opinion on this issue.
[ QUOTE ][*]Some ground based powers will not affect an enemy who is constantly jumping: Strangler, Ice Slick, Bonfire, Thorntrops.
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I believe this is still an issue.
[ QUOTE ][*]Losing pet in PvP when defeated is problematic due to its long recharge. (Anglican Mar 14th)
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I don't feel strongly about this, but can see how it could be an issue.
[ QUOTE ][*]Powers which can only target non-flying targets are penalized in PvP. (Anglican June 1st)
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I think that might kind of be the point.
[ QUOTE ][*]Sleep duration far too short in PvP. (Anglican June 1st)
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I suspect this is connected with the prevalance of Health, which I believe includes a sleep resistance.
[ QUOTE ][*]Slows not affecting jump speed in PvP. (DoctorAbominable June 23rd)
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I seem to recall this being discussed, and the conclusion being that slows do affect jump speed, just not by terribly much. Perhaps throwing an "enough" in there will get some support?