The problem, for me, is that what one person considers inane nonsense another person considers a fun joke to be shared with the community.
I love my server, and I love my server's forum community. I don't want to lose that fun sense of community that I love so much.
For me, this flared back up into a problem when one particular thread fell victim to thread-jacking, even after multiple requests that it be left alone. And one of the people insisting that they hadn't thread-jacked. This leads me to believe that some people may not be aware that their posts are viewed as thread-jacking.
So, I would dearly love it if we could have a reasonable discussion on this subject.
The main thing I'd like to see is a simple agreement that if someone asks that a thread not be jacked, that people leave it alone.
I guess I'll be the first to break the ice on this subject.
I don't feel any real animosity between myself and anyone on the server, or at least -- not from my end. If they dislike me, well...
I have 99 problems but a 'hero/villain' ain't one.
I don't understand why people are getting mad that some of us are frustrated with threadjacking. It doesn't make sense to me why or how threads can start, for example... "I'm making a guess on how to defeat Hamidon." and turn into "[censored] U LIKE PIE I LIKE PIE?! Look, theres this old lady in my own who dances every time theres a full moon."
I understand the point of view that once there are a few valid points made, it seems that the thread is void to some people, but its not. There are people who cannot visit the forums regularly, and if they are to catch up on the thread have to sift through an innumerable amount of personal conversations that have arisen from something completely unrelated and possibly important.
I tend to be increasingly apathetic to drama in the game, or on the forums.. But when this is affecting more than just me, I do get irritated.
I don't think it would be fair to have people "earn" their right to post, but it would make sense to have them continue deserving it. I don't like the idea of putting a lot of power in any particular person's hands, because if a personal issue does arise between that person vs. another, they may try to use that power vengefully.
All in all, I cannot offer many solutions. I ask anyone who does participate in blatant threadjacking to try to contain themselves to particular threads, or at least respect those of us who aren't big fans of it.
Also; I admit I've participated in thread jacking, even on my own thread about defeating Hamidon. I admit I did it to aleve some tension that was infecting the thread.
And, please, mind you -- I don't mind threadjacking sometimes, and I love jokes and humor as much as the next person. I'm not saying anyone who threadjacks is some sort of failure at life.
Is it just the threadjacking that is the greatest problem?
"Goodbye, Jean-Luc. I'm gonna miss you... you had such potential. But then again, all good things must come to an end..." -- Q
All in all, I do want everyone to have fun on the forums, but without disregarding how others see things.
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Is it just the threadjacking that is the greatest problem?
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Don't think it is the threadjacking (and I do that occasionally).
I'm wondering if it is the cross-posting that occurs which is immediately followed by accusation, degrading chat, or way off topic additions to a thread.
One of the points that is made, several times starting back with CuppaJo:
"Be on topic and be nice."
Yes, we have a small community (but growing) of regular posters. But we also have a large community of lurkers, that when they do come into the forum sometimes get blasted for being a 'lurker'.
Sorry, being old-fashoined here, but really if you are not contributing positively to a discussion...should you be involved?
I use this signature on another forum:
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If we cannot come together and improve our overall experience, then we are not involved and should just stand out of the way. And not reap the benefits of a modern society.
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This is what I try to do, contribute positively.
That is why I enjoy the "Protector Goers Have Fun Here" thread, because I can spout silliness occasionally.
In game, I hear on several of the global chat channels, and occasionally in local/broadcast/private, how some of the threads can get down-right nasty.
It's not that I hurt easily, but seeing some of these "attacks" keeps me from more activly posting in the forums.
Sometimes, I impress my boss. Sometimes, I impress myself. The rest of the time, I scare people. I can live with that.
In all of the years that I have been in the community, I have only seen a small number of posters who's choice of words border on snarky or spiteful. I have rarely seen it on the Protector forums.
Lately, I have seen several posts that contain a certain degree of negativity that was uncommon before. But even those posts in the Protector forum don't contain the nastiness that I have seen in other threads on this board.
"Goodbye, Jean-Luc. I'm gonna miss you... you had such potential. But then again, all good things must come to an end..." -- Q
I have no idea why I am entering into this again but her goes...
I have never once had a real problem with anyone ingame or on the forums. Well, till recently when I decided to go and piss numerous people off. Yay me ::sigh::
Anywho, I do not think it is people getting mad at everyone getting frustrated over the Threadjacking. When I decided to say something about it is was the fact the way it was said. I do understand that it can become annoying for some to post a subject that is in fact important to them and that being one of there introductions to the forums and then have there thread that was a valid question to them get broke to pieces with jokes and funny comments. I know I have been guilty of this as well as almost everyone on the boards.
Solution? I have nothing...
I truelly try to stay out of all the cross fighting and avoid the being pulled into the mix of arguments. But I am Human and yes I can speak my mind. I believe I have the right to post my opinion along with everyone else on these boards. I think the problem lies within who's opinion am I allowd to post? Mine or the majorities' opinion? I see that when some of us post an opinion it gets ripped apart and they get jumped on by several people. But who am I to post my opinion? I feel that noone deserves to be attacked by another and that is my personal feelings and I stand by it!
Solutions? I have nothing....
I was a Lurker for a long time. I decided to jump in. I did Yay me again ::sigh::
I see alot of people getting attacked for jumping in. I find it very frustrating. I try to be positive and not negative. I do kid alot with some friends and I sound mean but I am not actually a mean person. But when a new person comes to post on the boards and they are greeted with attacks I get frustrated.
What might not be a major problem to me may be a major problem to another and vice versa.
Yet again solutions? I have nothing...
::sigh::
Oh well life goes on, and so will I! Yay me!
I figure it's "Smalltown-itis," or perhaps a type of cabin fever...
Almost everybody knows each other here (after a fashion... Face-to-face is still a rarity), and we run into our friends (and foes) on a fairly regular basis.
As such, we probably tend to say and do things to either prod our friends and test their boundaries or the same to our foes to REALLY irk them. Having come from a small town environment, I take this stuff as a norm, and usually just shrug most of it off.
A few of us actually branch out into other characters, but some of us are entrenched into the daily politicking, gossip, and overall community of Protector, and can't hope to possibly get away.
Lord knows why lots of nasty stuff is being reported as being from Protector. It could be we've gotten too comfortable with each other and the ante's going up on just what we feel is pushing the limits.
Of course, my point of view should be taken with skepticism, as I'm not on the Protector forum as much as others.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Ex,
Thank you for this. Hopefully well have some meaningful discussions regarding this touchy subject.
First though
. You said
and I am staring at 20 pages of removed posts from the 'Protector forum goers have fun here' thread. I think a lot of Protector is also wondering why there 20 pages removed as well. I know why the second set of posts were removed, but what was so bad about the first original batch which were removed? Quite a few people were a little perplexed about that; perhaps if knew why, it might help ease some minds.. I mean you did give us that thread specifically to have fun in. What was it that caused it to get it edited so heavily?
In response to your questions for Protectorites:
1) Threadjacking. Touchy subject, yes. And a lengthy answer is forthcoming. Have I done it? Yes. Have I done it recently? Yes, and I will be the first to admit it as to not be accused of hypocrisy. Nearly all of the regular forum posters do it do one degree or another on various threads throughout the Protector forum, and thats the problem. Why I like the Stalker Report and the Have Fun Here thread (though mainly the Stalker Report) is that it gives a home to the nearly endless running string of IMs amongst certain groups, and puts them in a nice little thread that I can ignore and never venture into, thereby bypassing a lot of the problem. But sometimes it doesnt and they spill over into other threads. Its irritating as heck to come back from work, or being out and see 40+ posts on a board, and have 97% of them be pretty much 1 line instant messages between forumites, with maybe 1 - 2 posts on topic within. Imagine please, that youre not part of that little clique that does it thats a lot of stuff you really dont want to have to read to filter through. I dont want to have to pan for gold each time I use the forums
sift, sift, sift for one nugget of information.
2) Tolerance
I can tolerate a little threadjacking. Its good, it can be fun, and it keeps us amused and friendly. However, it has gotten out of hand lately, and I dont mind saying I was disgusted when the Facts About Protectorites had to be closed because people refused to stop threadjacking it, even when asked. People need to respect the fact that some of the forum readers want to read threads that stay on topic, and dont want to have to wade through 20 + posts of hugs, giggles, smiles and one line text messages every day.
People say they dont threadjack threads that are important who are we to deem whats important and whats not? We cant determine which threads are important and which arent unless were the creator of that thread..
I dont envy you your job, Ex. The discussion here will be interesting, but any results will be short lived. I think Dirt said it best when she mentioned something about KEEPING the right to post here. Some people get their post count up past the 1000 mark in under a month, and yet contribute nothing meaningful to any conversations. Some people post 4-5 times a day, and threadjack occasionally. Some people dont even play on Protector and just hang around. How do you decide which is worse? How do you deal with it? I dont envy you at all.
Thanks,
-River
Thread jacking has been going on in this forum for as long as I have been here. Personally, I have found a lot of it to be quite humorous. There have been a few instances where I have seen threads get out of hand, but I thought that those were the exceptions.
20 pages removed from the fun thread? wow!
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
Ex Libris, myself as a person who in real life has managed groups of people for 17 years, I have always found it a good idea to give examples of what is and what is not allowed.
What is precisley considered threadjacking? I've read through threads where someone has started a thread on, as an example, RSF and after a page or two the joking starts. Where is the line between thread jacking and having fun?
Tolerance is an issue that unfortunaly I don't think we as a players can much control in other people. I am in complete agreement that, as you put it, we need to agree to disagree without making it personal. As responsible adults we should be able to figure out ourselves what is or is not permissable.
In both cases if the above are happening are the ones committing the problems being informed? To be blunt, if there's an issue and whomever is responsible DOES NOT KNOW that they're out of line according to the rules of the message board the problem may continue no matter what is discussed here.
Well I'll get off my soapbox now 
My MA Arcs: [29581 - A Knight to Remember] [107587 - Upgrade] [41834 - Construction Blues]
Playing on: Protector - Guardian - Victory
I honestly believe everyone will have different opinions on this matter.
Therefore a solution will never be made...
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I honestly believe everyone will have different opinions on this matter.
Therefore a solution will never be made...
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Quot homines, tot sententiae.
I think a solution can be made, I just think it will be difficult. There can be fun on the forums without persistent shiny-object-personal-conversation starting in threads of relevance.
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Quot homines, tot sententiae.
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Translation: there are as many opinions as there are men
There are alot of opinions...
That is the problem!
I have to disagree.
The first step is making sure everyone knows there is a problem.
For instance, if I'm playing my music too loud, it may be because I'm an inconsiderate s.o.b. Or it may be that I honestly don't know its bothering you.
Once you tell me that its a problem, then I can identify myself as an s.o.b. (Well, it doesn't bother me, so deal with it), or as a reasonable person who wants to resolve it. In the case of the music, the options range from me not playing my music at all (not a good solution for me), me continuing to play my music as loud and as much as I want (not a good solutuion for you), or agreeing that I will not play my music after 10pm at night, but before then I can play it all I want.
So, to put this back into this discussion, I am one of the people saying that I have a problem with the rampant threadjacking. Now, the people creating the problem can either stop all together, continue with no change whatsoever, or attempt to come to some sort of agreement.
So, I ask again, as a first step, can we agree that if someane asks that a particular thread not get jacked, that you will take your fun elsewhere? No one is saying it has to stop completely! I don't think you can be a protector forumite without committing the occassional threadjack. But, can we be considerate enough of each other to respect a request to leave specific threads alone?
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What is precisley considered threadjacking? I've read through threads where someone has started a thread on, as an example, RSF and after a page or two the joking starts. Where is the line between thread jacking and having fun?
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Honestly, this is the thing that I have found both amusing and annoying. Mostly it amuses me until the thread is modsmacked or deleted, then I become annoyed. The Protector Forumites play around a lot. Anyone who has read this forum for any length of time should know this. Yes it is hard going through 6 pages of Pie and Fish comments, but for the most part this forum is tame compared to some of the other server forums. In other server forums, I have seen SG's reputations tarnished, pages and pages of posts griefing, calling out, and bashing others. But here it is mostly jokes.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
Even though I'm flying out of CoX for good in a few weeks, I really must admit that there needs to be alot of improvement and issues to be worked out, not only here on Protector, but elsewhere as well. Even though threadjacking seems to be the main issue here, it really isn't....its conduct and breaking of the rules. Sure some people go overboard and turn into 5 year olds that start making it into a big issue then attack other people just of it does not make it go away, it only fuels the fire (a few I can list but gonna leave it to that). I always believed to be a good player towards others but if the person needs to be pistol whipped, they are gonna get that and much more just for ruining other people's play. Sure alot of people hate my guts because I speak the truth but truthfully, I just dont' give a [censored] of what they think or say about me. I paid to play the game to have fun and by goly I'm gonna do just that.
The way I see it, if people don't like it then talk or go around it because it will never change. Its like trying to make society stand on their heads while trying to drink a glass of water.
Again, in my view....its not about threadjacking that goes on around here, its about the so-called "higher" people trying to be control freaks that think others should go about doing what THEY want them to do because thats all they know. If people actually get off their high chair, stop, and look around in another's point of view.....they might actually understand of what is going on. When you think about this, it all goes back to the rules and conduct of the EULA for players to follow online and the forums.
If your the kind of person who loves to have fun, just go out to have fun and socialize unless if you love to be "elitist", take control over others to have them do what YOU want them to do....two solutions is go back to platforming and/or just shut your trap and go about playing.
Alot of things that need to be fixed and I do feel now is the time to do it.
.....and yes, I am concerned of what goes around on the forums even though I am leaving in a few weeks and there isn't a damn thing no one can do or say to change my views on this.
....think its a rant? Why not put yourself in someone's shoes that gets gunned down by someone on here. If you use common sense, everything will go far with no troubles and no worries 
Rule #3: Think before you type.
This is an ingeneral question not placed at anyone in particular. Please take note of this...
What exactly is your definition of threadjacking.
Who decides if it is actually a threadjack or not?
Who is anyone to decide which thread is important or not?
Is it not a problem when blantant remarks towards others are made?
I think it is a matter of compromise not conforming to the others wishes...
I don't believe thats technically true, I think its your opinion. If you are trying to accuse people of a social ladder, you have built one yourself and placed people where you think they are.
One is not being elitist because they don't like threadjacking. How is one being controlling if they are simply asking to not have a thread they are attached to jacked? I asked that the thread not be jacked, and people acted like I was throwing a hissy fit.
I wasn't. I just would have liked the Facts.. thread to remain what it was. A thread full of "Fact / Fiction" jokes and not a chat session.
Theres a difference between 'speaking the truth' and 'stating your opinion', Demilion. Your post was obviously directed towards those of us who aren't fans of threadjacking. So you decide to call it 'elitist'. If we are elitist, why are we trying to preserve posts by *everyone* and not just ourselves?
We do enjoy playing, but that doesn't mean we want every thread turned into something it isn't meant to be. No one was gunning anyone down. I asked politely for people to stop on the Facts thread once it started turning into a debate.
You ask those of us against threadjacking to see your point of view -- But..
You aren't seeing ours.
What it comes down too is keeping certain people & players happy and that we get left alone until someone points <<IE: Well, it seems Protector has bubbled up on my radar again, and from the looks of the moderator report (which I am looking into as we speak) you have come across their radar as well. >> a finger an a forum "big dog".
I've played CoX for 25 months. I stayed away from the boards up until about 2 months or so ago. This is the exact reason why. Certain people/players are allowed to express opinions, be hateful and rude until their hearts are content... but don't let an outsider (or lurker) make an opinion known (especially one that isn't in-line with the "big dogs" or the mods) because you'll be torn up, torn down, deleted, mod-smacked, whatever.
A good example of selective moderation, is a thread on one of the other boards where someone offered a bounty on another player... it's been there the whole time I've been participating in the boards.
Threadjacking is not the biggest problem, by far.
It's the PERCEIVED (I didn't say if it was right or wrong, but PERCEPTION is everything here) way that some people are treated... both by being mod-smacked and player-trashed/excluded. In some ways, it's a LOT like high school... your either one of the "cool kids" or you aren't. And if you aren't, you don't matter.
I originally came to the boards AT ALL looking for information on buliding bases and some other in-game stuff. THAT was a near impossibility in itself, unless you want to wade through 200 pages of crap just to find ONE post with a link with info.
*shrugs* I did without the boards for 23 months, reckon I can go back to that.
Thanks for allowing us to express our opinions and feelings about this Ex.
Who is to decide which thread is important or not?
The OP. It's important to them(the OP), otherwise they wouldn't have posted it.
Having people say they don't threadjack important threads is belittling to someone who does get their thread jacked, because you're basically saying that their issue isn't important.
-River
[ QUOTE ]
This is an ingeneral question not placed at anyone in particular. Please take note of this...
What exactly is your definition of threadjacking.
Who decides if it is actually a threadjack or not?
Who is anyone to decide which thread is important or not?
Is it not a problem when blantant remarks towards others are made?
I think it is a matter of compromise not conforming to the others wishes...
[/ QUOTE ]
My idea of threadjacking is when a post is made about a particular subject, and then is turned into a chat session about inane nonsense.
Anyone can plainly see a threadjacking. It's when a thread resorts to irrelevence.
I think the OP can decide, and, if someone asks the thread not be jacked when it starts turning that way, they should be respected. Also, if a thread is about a serious, personal subject, it should be respected. I don't think EVERY thread should turn into a chat session. I don't think most threads should.
It isn't appropriate, but a lot of us carry jokes to one another. I try to be as friendly as possible, despite my demeanor. You have to consider my humor is a but different than playful butterflies and huggles.
You're right, it is a matter of compromise. Its a matter of compromise and not finger pointing, or assuming threadjacking is appropriate in every thread or thinking that complete seriousness is okay either.
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What exactly is your definition of threadjacking.
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A threadjack is when any comment is made that takes the thread off its original topic.
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Who decides if it is actually a threadjack or not?
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This is, of course, subjective. Like whether a joke is offensive, or whether a picture is art or pornography.
I think a better question is this: Who do we WANT deciding if something is a thread jack. Reading between the lines of Ex's post, I think we can see that she's telling that we had better work it out, or she will. So.. do you want us to be able to solve this ourselves? Or do you want Ex to come in here and clean up our mess for us?
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Who is anyone to decide which thread is important or not?
[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously, the OP has a say, and the people posting in that thread. Since I think we all know that this started from Beka's "Facts" thread, that thread was important to several people. I may have stated most clearly how and why it was important to me. And.. a better queston might be "Who is anyone to decide which thread is UNimportant?"
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Is it not a problem when blantant remarks towards others are made?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure exactly what you mean or what you are refering to, but, yes, not only is attacking another poster a problem, but it is against the forum rules.
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I think it is a matter of compromise not conforming to the others wishes...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not asking anyone to conform to anything. I'm asking that we try to come to an agreement. I've asked twice, and I"m now asking a third time, can we agree that if someone asks that a particular thread be left alone, that you'll take your fun elsewhere?
We've got to start coming to some agreement about this problem before the mods slap us all down so that NONE of us can enjoy this forum. And that will be a very sad day for all of us.
Well, it seems Protector has bubbled up on my radar again, and from the looks of the moderator report (which I am looking into as we speak) you have come across their radar as well.
What I see when I pop in here is a healthy daytime community that has quite a few regulars. This in my opinion is a good thing because you will also be the first to sign up and support events and happenings on your server, as well as point people to facts and resources when they ask.
So I am wondering why I have a half dozen PM's regarding the behavior down here, and I am staring at 20 pages of removed posts from the 'Protector forum goers have fun here' thread.
I would like to discuss this with all those who have a vested interest, so that it doesn't appear as though some supreme decision is cast down upon the lot of you. I think that everyone who considers this forum their first home needs to weigh in on the issue.
I see two problems...and this is just a bird's eye view so please don't take it to heartily.
1) Threadjacking...this speaks for itself and was the original reason for putting in a sanctioned threadjacking thread. But it happens here on other more serious threads, and quite often.
2) Tolerance...this issue will always be present in one way or another, whether it is personality clashes or just down right arch rivalry. We need to figure out how to agree to disagree at times without making it personal.
So lets talk about Protector forums, how we can organize the posts and threads so that people can police themselves a bit more on the jacking part, and that we can all be who we are without changing how we interact.
I think most of it comes down to there is a time and a place for everything.
So lets focus on solutions and how we can either organized the Protector forum for optimized enjoyment or remind each other kindly to be respectful of the posts that are for events, and general knowledge.
I for one don't want to lay down any foundation that will affect this community without the community that already lives here having direct input.
Ex