Just 1 more reason not to take Phase Shift!
By
Amarsir,
Posted on: 2007-05-02 22:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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The problem is: the game has relied upon this kind of "cheating" since day 1, and IMO is one of the main reasons why it's not a more popular and fun game to play than it is.
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Is this the first and only video game you've ever played?
I mean, that's the only possible reason I can think of for this endless outrage you have at the notion that the final boss of CoX is more powerful than the players.
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Respecs + New Slotting.
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So your going to give a free respec everytime you make a change to a power, Enh, or to the game or make respec trials no limit???
Sry Castle not tring to be mean but got to call you on that one, bad answer!
O and ty Castle and BackAlly for getting on and posting I know you guys are busy
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
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Our characters are living organisms. How come we can't "adapt" and do similar things as hami? 
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Respecs + New Slotting.
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You're enjoying this, aren't you Castle?
I would like to add that our character did just adapt, its called inventions.
Brutes adapted in I7 with Electric melee and electric Armor
Defenders and controllers adapted earlier with Trick Arrow and Sonic Resonance.
Where would the fun in this game be if it wasn't a challenge?
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That's just it, it's NOT a challenge. A challenge implies strategy; assessing your foe's strength and weaknesses, forming a team with precisely the right combination of powers needed for the task at hand, and a reasonable ability or plan to deal with whatever the foes are going to throw at you.
But this is virtually impossible within the structure of CoX. You can't reliably find players with just the right combinations of powers -- hell, you don't even have a way of knowing what sets a player has before they're on your team unless they're within 100 yards of you. And what are you supposed to do between missions? Kick the "unneeded" players and look for more appropriate ones based upon what you're going to fight next?
As I've stated previously, how exactly do you counter foe abilities for which there is no reliable countenance? This isn't a challenge, it's frustration and futility.
And honestly, most pick up groups aren't interested in spending time analyzing mission structure, summing up their foes, crafting detailed fight plans... they just want to run in and kill things, heal up, then run into the next room and kill things. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The excitement of playing this game is the frenzy you experience with that type of gameplay. Strategy, by and large, is slow and boring. Running in and decimating everything in sight like a well-oiled killing machine is fun and exciting.
And seriously, even if you are really into strategy and planning, with so many foe effects that side-step the rules, are blatantly over-powered, and/or have virtually no way of mitigating, strategy inevitably comes down to stocking up on massive quantities of inspirations as your only realistic means of getting the job done. But for me, even though I am glad to have completed the task at hand, I find such encounters to be largely unfulfilling; having no choice other than to "cheat" my way thru to success.
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We've gotten many PMs with similiar laments about defense, resistance, stealth, etc. All of which are reasonable complaints. However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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So, when are we going to see a particular encounter that renders buff/debuff near pointless to have? Because between both games, we're going 4 for 4 on end game content where armor is fairly worthless beyond 1-2 players on your team.
It's just getting a bit tiresome that any time you guys want to design something challenging or make the game more challenging, the first thing you do is groin kick the Defense/Resist sets.
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Hamidon aside, there are many, many foes in the game that are still using either pre-release and/or un-nerfed versions of player powers. Foes have always been able to side-step the rules that players are forced to abide by.
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nerf Nemesis Vengeance, please.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
So besides Phase Shift, what else has changed in the raid?
Hami has always done untyped damage. But now, it can be mitigated by EoEs.
Tanks can still taunt the Hami.
There are fewer mitos with less hit points.
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And honestly, most pick up groups aren't interested in spending time analyzing mission structure, summing up their foes, crafting detailed fight plans... they just want to run in and kill things, heal up, then run into the next room and kill things. Lather, rinse, repeat.
The excitement of playing this game is the frenzy you experience with that type of gameplay. Strategy, by and large, is slow and boring. Running in and decimating everything in sight like a well-oiled killing machine is fun and exciting.
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These re both personal opinions, not canon. Many players enjoy the challenge of strategy, and the victory that comes from it. Seeing some of the posts during closed beta was proof of this.
I find PUGs that just run in and defeat everything pretty monotonous, actually. Run in, wipe mobs, wash, rinse, repeat. Sounds like a Drek map to me
If players were really not that cerebral, why create Inventions and IO sets? Why have crafting in any MMO for that matter? Why do other MMOs have raid content? Obviously someone must enjoy thinking in a game
So you lost a trump card, and the Phantom Army can't single-handedly tank Hami. Why the surprise? Sounds kinda broken to me when I put it in those terms, IMHO.
There are strategies that work without relying on PA. There were successful Hami raids on Test once a strategy was found.
The sky isn't falling.
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So why can Mr. Superspeeder over there who phases through objects by accelerating his molecules, etc, hit my guy who becomes a living shadow, or enters the ethereal plane?
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For the exact same reason Mr. Superspeeder who accelerates his molecules to match an enemy or an enemy who enters the same plane of living shadow currently cannot.
Limitations of the system.
Personally, I think it'd make phase shift more interesting if the phase shifted can hit the phase shifted. Make phase shift a useful power when fighting carnies. And it'd add an interesting new twist for the PvPers as well.
Also, since phase shift would no longer be complete invulnerability, it'd be more acceptable to make such powers last longer and/or be more common.
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So...I questioned your statement that a power is useless because a) ONE monster in the ENTIRE GAME can shoot through it and b) it has a 30 second timer, and you responded with that much bile? Wow.
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Because now that Hami has "adapted" this ability, the door is wide open for other foes to magically "adapt" this ability. What's to stop the devs from giving giant monsters, Lusca, the Ghost of Scrapyard, any/all of the signature heroes and villains, or any number of zone monsters and AVs the ability to ignore phase shift? In a single word: nothing. And the rationale? "Well, they adapted like all living organisms do."
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Yeah, they could do that.
They can do anything they damn well want, ultimately.
I don't see them doing that for non-endgame content, because I think it would be stupid.
You may thing Hamidon's design is stupid. I don't, for reasons stated. If things that poke through phase shift and hibernate start showing up in door missions then I'll be on the bandwagon with you.
Simply because they did it in this particular case doesn't mean they're dense enough to do it everywhere.
Personally, I think claims that the new Hamidon is harder are a crock. The new Hamidon reqiuires greater coordination and active participation. If you were there to put powers on auto, then yeah, the new raid is harder for you. I always participated and paid attention at raids, meaning I was one of the people enabling all the akf-ers to get their HO. Nothing much changes for me in the new raid, except perhaps that I will die more often.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This whole thread is making me lmao.
Why would you even do Hami now?
The time isn't worth the reward anymore. Not when you can do the STF with only 8 people and you can do it twice to get your HO and Rare, and do it in a whole lot less time. Some may say its for the recipies but just doing missions will get you those.
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Because everyone isn't in this for the most efficient way. Because I predict that, in around 8 weeks time, there will be little difference in the time it takes to do a raid or an RSF/STF. Because not everyone has a team to do the STF/RSF on, or has the right AT to get one from people running them who are frequently unnecessarily elitest about who they admit.
Because you can do both and get two HOs or two recipies.
Because beating on anything with 50 people is cool.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I'm not a fan of that either.
People have found ways to avoid them, but they're not easy.
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I think that's the point.
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The only means of escaping them currently known is trigger-reflex use of teleport. Since the raid isn't supposed to depend on single-power gimmicks, either we don't know the right way to get away/survive or the point is that there's just supposed to be a whole lot of death.
If the answer is the latter, I disagree with it as an encounter design. "You chose some more popular travel power, or don't have a team TP-er on team, so you lose." If this is the real situation, then I think it would be better if there more of a delay before the mitos attacked, to at least give attentive folk "stuck with" with more traditional travel powers a hope of escaping.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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We've gotten many PMs with similiar laments about defense, resistance, stealth, etc. All of which are reasonable complaints. However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in who order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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So, when are we going to see a particular encounter that renders buff/debuff near pointless to have? Because between both games, we're going 4 for 4 on end game content where armor is fairly worthless beyond 1-2 players on your team.
It's just getting a bit tiresome that any time you guys want to design something challenging or make the game more challenging, the first thing you do is groin kick the Defense/Resist sets.
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Once upon a time I had phase shift
Then the devs nerfed it with a limited time it can run and a long cooldown... I got rid of it
I left the game for a long time cause I was just tired of constant nerfage
I came back recently for some simplistic gameplay during my offtime
More nerfs are not a surprise. This dev team has never learned how to make things fun and challenging without nerfing and they never will. They did however find a nice spokesperson to give snippy quips when people rail about them. Good show.
Once upon a time this game was an all consuming great thing (much like WoW). Now its just a passable distraction, a mild entertainment. No wonder it never realized its commercial marketing potential when the dev mindset is always to destroy the fun as opposed to enhancing it.
I remember when controllers aoe controls were nerfed. People said oh but you have containment now... I said yea and when EPP's get nerfed down the road what then? Low and behold as I predicted the EPP's got nerfed into oblivion but did controllers get anything back for it? Nope
Inventions are nice right now... and set bonuses are a possible way to recover some semblance of fun back... But what about down the road when we are having too much fun again? What happens when inventions get nerfed? Suddenly set bonuses will start to adhere to ED so you can only use them to max out certain effects with less slotting as opposed to breaking the barriers of ED.
Mark my words it WILL happen. These are the same people after 3 years think revising hamidon is still end game content. These are the same people who after 3 years still refuse to update power descriptions with actual numbers so people can make informed decisions about their choices without using outside of the game tools and websites. These are the same people who CENSORED THEIR OWN DEVELOPMENT TEAM MEMBERS when they did the developer interviews because they didnt like some of the questions they were answering.
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Statesman didn't like one of his answers - so he had to go back and pick another one. Monday is what it looks like.
CJ
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Thats a quote from cuppajo regarding the ask geko interview.
These are the people running this show. So unless you can give up and be beaten and just accept the constant hot irons that will inevitably get shoved into your nether regions you should close your account. I came back for personal reasons of my own and because I am one of those people who gave up and accepted that they will never let our fun exceed a certain level.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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The problem is: the game has relied upon this kind of "cheating" since day 1, and IMO is one of the main reasons why it's not a more popular and fun game to play than it is.
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Is this the first and only video game you've ever played?
I mean, that's the only possible reason I can think of for this endless outrage you have at the notion that the final boss of CoX is more powerful than the players.
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I don't have a problem with Hami being more powerful than players. I have a problem with minions, LTs and bosses being more powerful than most players, with similar powers that are many times stronger than ours, with absolutely none of the limitations or restrictions that we players have. It's hard to feel super when the baddies are always more powerful than you are, can do things you can't do, can use your own powers better than you can, and can consistently smack you around with abilities you can't mitigate.
It's all about perception.
Now take a game like WoW. Set in a fantasy D&D style world, there are pre-conceived perceptions of how the various classes function. No one expects a mage or priest to single-handedly wipe out a room full of foes. Most would expect a warrior to have trouble accomplishing a similar feat. These are established limitations based upon the genre. And WoW does a really good job at adhering to them as most player types perform pretty much exactly as expected. And, surprisingly, Blizzard has never had to resort to the kind of trickery or funny business Cryptic has in designing the game's foes. Most foes perform quite similarly to players in style, frequency, and damage of attacks. There are many types of mez-style effects that players can be hit with, but they are vastly infrequent compared to CoX, and they can all be readily countered in one way or another, whether it be thru an enchanted item, protective spell (available to nearly ALL spellcasters, not just one or two particular subtypes), or learned ability. In essence, you pretty much always feel like you're playing on a level field. This is not to say things are always easy, and as such many find it necessary to have at least one teammate to accomplish many quests. But you never feel grossly outclassed.
Now let's look at CoX. CoX is based in the world of comic book super heroes; super heroes who do not follow the same pre-conceived class structures as in fantasy games. Super heroes are, and have always been, badasses, plain and simple. There are no wussie super heroes; they are, by their nature, always better than the non-powered minions they fight, usually by a large margin. As you climb the foe ranks and start dealing with powered foes, things get a bit dicier, but again, that's the expectation as presented in nearly 70 years of comic book lore.
But CoX wasn't designed around this pre-established genre. It apparently was designed more in line with fantasy-based games. And therein lies the perception issue, and IMO the #1 problem that will plague this game for the rest of its existence and keep it from being anything more than moderately entertaining for short periods of time.
As a super hero, I expect to be able to fight throngs of minions before I even start to break a sweat. After all, that's the way it's done in the comics every day. Does Spider-Man get beaten down by two common warehouse workers and a foreman? Does any super hero, even a SIDEKICK, get beaten down like that? Where is the excitement in that? There is none, both in the game and in the comics.
So instead of ramping up the volume of foes to a "super hero" level, the devs, in an attempt to add "challenge" to the game, cut all player damage and protections by as much as 75% while increasing the HP and damage of foes by as much as 50%, all the while keeping the same 3:1 Statesman-mandated ratio. Woweee, how friggin super do I feel now, that even 3 of the lowliest foes is a "challenge"? Ummm, so not very.
And when this proved to be an ineffective method of getting people to prefer teaming to soloing (which, btw, is another strike against the super hero genre, as most heroes prefer to go solo except in extreme cases), they added and/or increased the frequency and magnitude of all sorts of annoying status effects to virtually all mob types. And though it did encourage teaming, it wasn't out of desire, but desperation, which resulted in general frustration and aggravation and ultimately led to the vast playerbase exodus that occurred between issues 4 thru 6.
And I haven't even touched upon the array of suppressions and nerfs made along the way as frustrated players developed new techniques in desperate attempts to somehow make up for what was taken from them. Well boo-ya, say goodbye to all the really cool and useful powers that were left.
And lo and behold, here we are today, a super hero RPG where players are constantly out damaged, out defensed, and out classed by nearly everything they fight. Moderately entertaining at best (mostly due to it being the only game in town), downright aggravating, frustrating and heretical at its worst, but nonetheless playable for a reasonable amount of time and a reasonable amount of enjoyment.
'Nuff said.
Wow... willy really summed up my experience when I left at i5...
and thats exactly what cox has become for me... mildly entertaining.
Just enough to justify the expense... but not enough that I'd ever encourage other folk to sign up.
Its a distraction for me. Once upon a time it used to be an obesession (i1-i3) and obsession is what you should be striving for to make an MMO a success and this is why cox is not a success. It's not a failure mind you... its just... mildly entertaining.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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(i guess in THERE world, a year is 18 months long, as the past 4 issues have NOT followed this standard)
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Issue 1: 6/30/2004
Issue 2: 9/16/2004
Issue 3: 1/4/2005
Issue 4: 5/4/2005
Issue 5: 8/31/2005
Issue 6: 10/31/2005
Issue 7: 5/6/2006
Issue 8: 11/28/2006
Issue 9: 5/2/2007
The only block of three that didn't hit "three per year" was 6-8, which was 13, not 18, months. And overall, they're still right on "three per year", given that we've just had the three-year anniversary and nine issues within that time.
Kam
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ok, so it was the last 3 and at 13 months, the point is still the same, and i dont count issue 6 at all, it was just adding cov access to cov side for pvp zones and came out 2 months after issue 5.....
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in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging
[/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't even say you are steping out of "normal" rules. To do so acknowledges a limitation that simply does not exist. This is a comic book game. Last I checked anything and everything was possible in the world of comics. Hell, Scarlet Witch created an alternate universe were everybody lived none the wiser....then she undid it all. The people that are getting all bent out of shape that Hami is hitting their precious PA, need to remember context under which this game takes place....limitless.
I emphatically salute the devs for remembering that. I think it is an excellent precedent on their part to make aspects of the game responsive to the players themselves. I think they need to take this a step farther. Make the AI's far more sensitive to what powers are being used against them. Allow them to see that they are constantly being held and let them start recruiting/training/spawning/hiring mob types which can protect them from holds. Hell, give mobs a way to adapt to stone tanks.
Obviously the bad guys should have a limit as to how much they can adapt and they shouldn't be able to cover all their holes at the same time, but it think this is one very immersive way to improve the AI.
Bravo. Compared to other games, I've consistently been impressed with the overall quality of decisions that Cryptic has made. I will gladly invest in any new games you guys come out with.
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So...I questioned your statement that a power is useless because a) ONE monster in the ENTIRE GAME can shoot through it and b) it has a 30 second timer, and you responded with that much bile? Wow.
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Because now that Hami has "adapted" this ability, the door is wide open for other foes to magically "adapt" this ability. What's to stop the devs from giving giant monsters, Lusca, the Ghost of Scrapyard, any/all of the signature heroes and villains, or any number of zone monsters and AVs the ability to ignore phase shift? In a single word: nothing. And the rationale? "Well, they adapted like all living organisms do."
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Yeah, they could do that.
They can do anything they damn well want, ultimately.
I don't see them doing that for non-endgame content, because I think it would be stupid.
You may thing Hamidon's design is stupid. I don't, for reasons stated. If things that poke through phase shift and hibernate start showing up in door missions then I'll be on the bandwagon with you.
Simply because they did it in this particular case doesn't mean they're dense enough to do it everywhere.
Personally, I think claims that the new Hamidon is harder are a crock. The new Hamidon reqiuires greater coordination and active participation. If you were there to put powers on auto, then yeah, the new raid is harder for you. I always participated and paid attention at raids, meaning I was one of the people enabling all the akf-ers to get their HO. Nothing much changes for me in the new raid, except perhaps that I will die more often.
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Ok, but com'n Uber, how many times have we seen this happen before? They start by one little change in only one place. "Well, it's the big bad of the end-game, so yeah, he should break all the rules". Then, when a new zone or TF is created with a new AV who just happens to have the ability to attack thru PS and destroy "indestructible" pets, we get "well, this is just one sole AV who's unique". And then of course it's not long before it trickles down to EBs and bosses across every major mob type.
And maybe now it's just phase shift and phantom army. Well then what's next? With the arrival of IOs and the particular problem with hostage missions, what did the devs decide to do? Did they just fix the particular problem in one of a number of suggested ways? Noooooo, they crafted a game-wide stealth debuff system that completely nerfs an entire AT and an entire class of already-nerfed and questionably useful powers.
I'm sorry if I don't share your faith, but after 3 years I've seen the devs make far too many bad choices and not nearly enough good ones.
And people are commenting that I'm referring solely to Hami in particular, but I'm not. I'm talking about the game in it's entirety. I'm talking about the devs taking ill-conceived shortcuts in their attempts to create "challenge" throughout the entire game. First we had travel suppression. Then mez suppression. Then stealth and phase shift suppression. Now steath and phase shift negation, and indestructible pets that suddenly aren't.
Funny how despite all the talk about "giving back" and "new directions" it seems like we're still heading down the same old path -- give the players a little something that's ultimately not going to be useful to most, and while no one is looking fire up the nerf machine and let 'er rip, hoping no one will notice.
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in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging
[/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't even say you are steping out of "normal" rules. To do so acknowledges a limitation that simply does not exist. This is a comic book game. Last I checked anything and everything was possible in the world of comics. Hell, Scarlet Witch created an alternate universe were everybody lived none the wiser....then she undid it all. The people that are getting all bent out of shape that Hami is hitting their precious PA, need to remember context under which this game takes place....limitless.
I emphatically salute the devs for remembering that. I think it is an excellent precedent on their part to make aspects of the game responsive to the players themselves. I think they need to take this a step farther. Make the AI's far more sensitive to what powers are being used against them. Allow them to see that they are constantly being held and let them start recruiting/training/spawning/hiring mob types which can protect them from holds. Hell, give mobs a way to adapt to stone tanks.
Obviously the bad guys should have a limit as to how much they can adapt and they shouldn't be able to cover all their holes at the same time, but it think this is one very immersive way to improve the AI.
Bravo. Compared to other games, I've consistently been impressed with the overall quality of decisions that Cryptic has made. I will gladly invest in any new games you guys come out with.
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too bad the heroes/villains playing this game dont have the option of "limitless" but I'm glad you're happy that that the NPCS have that option.
The players are saddled with more limits with almost every issue. Chew on that in your "limitless" universe
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Hamidon and the mitos do damage through Phase Shift to prevent Phantom Army and Phase Shift type powers becoming "required" for a raid.
Fictionally, Hamidon evolves. When he's continually defeated using a particular strategy or power he's naturally going to evolve a counter to it. This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution. Why not simply change the AI so it ignores Phantom Army? Because we don't want it to ignore Phantom Army. Using Phantom Army as a diversion is a perfectly sound tactic. We just didn't want PA to be any better than other pets/minions for that purpose.
We've gotten many PMs with similiar laments about defense, resistance, stealth, etc. All of which are reasonable complaints. However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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When the hell was phase "required" for a raid (aside from way way back and that was stopped in the same time period) this just seems mean and serves no purpose, kinda like stopping all those uber mega overpowered /dev blasters from teleporting their crazy overpowered autoturret about.......
I can defeat about 100 foes per hour that are theoretically my equals or better in this game. Hour after hour. Day in an day out. And I'm a casual player.
Spider-Man, eat your heart out!
But more seriously, I'd much rather hear you guys whine over cheating npcs than to hear the whines we'd get if the npcs had both power AND AI to match the players.
*shudders*
And if you can take on 6 even-level foes all at once in WoW and win consistently, well, I'm impressed.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Once upon a time this game was an all consuming great thing (much like WoW). Now its just a passable distraction, a mild entertainment. No wonder it never realized its commercial marketing potential when the dev mindset is always to destroy the fun as opposed to enhancing it.
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I'm sure WoW is a great game, but I can't imagine that mechanics don't regular get changed there. I doubt it's a perfect utopia. Show me a perfect MMO with 100% player satisfaction, and I'll show you a bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn I know plenty of people who left CoH for WoW, and I know others who left WoW for CoH. To each his own, but don't compare apples to pomegranates.
As for the fun, it's relative. I'm still having fun with the game, because I chose to work past the changes, instead of jumping ship at the first cry of doom.
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These are the people running this show. So unless you can give up and be beaten and just accept the constant hot irons that will inevitably get shoved into your nether regions you should close your account. I came back for personal reasons of my own and because I am one of those people who gave up and accepted that they will never let our fun exceed a certain level.
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Wow... just wow (and not the game, except maybe for you ). Mild exaggerations about pubic mutilation aside, IMHO, changes always happen in MMOs. Wait, let me say that again:
Changes always happen in MMOs.
Anyone who expects content to never change from launch is living in a fantasy. Changes happen because players find ways to interact with the environment tha were never intended. Players find exploits in maps, find ways to abuse systems, find ways to grief fellow players, etc., etc. All the "best" aspects of anonymitous "jerk hacking".
Devs are people, without the gift of divination; they don't see everything that can and will happen when they create games and systems. The one thing about MMOs is that change is constant. Things get fixed, to the satisfaction or dismay of players (depending on who's doing what); get used to change.
I5 was in 2005, almost 18 months ago. It's more than so last year. If you're still bent about I5, get over it. Unlearn what you learned, and stop lamenting a lost Carthage. Re-learn2play.
Here's the real question: who's actually tried the new encounter? Who's complaining just to pretend this is actually an issue?
Lately, I noticed a rash of people who return to the game (not all of them, mind you) who waste no time with non-constructive criticism. They complain about things that happened issues ago with little or no feedback on how to make it better.
Nothing against CuppaJo (we miss ya ), but to finalize, I'll quote one of the current community reps, Ex Libris:
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ya'll want to see some change around here well then you better be willing to put in some muscle not just noise.
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No more strawman arguments about I5 and ED, and using the word nerf 7 times in a post. Try the new Hami before you knock it. If you don't like it after you try it, then by all means, give some constructive criticism. Otherwise, read my sig, and move on.
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in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging
[/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't even say you are steping out of "normal" rules. To do so acknowledges a limitation that simply does not exist. This is a comic book game. Last I checked anything and everything was possible in the world of comics. Hell, Scarlet Witch created an alternate universe were everybody lived none the wiser....then she undid it all. The people that are getting all bent out of shape that Hami is hitting their precious PA, need to remember context under which this game takes place....limitless.
I emphatically salute the devs for remembering that. I think it is an excellent precedent on their part to make aspects of the game responsive to the players themselves. I think they need to take this a step farther. Make the AI's far more sensitive to what powers are being used against them. Allow them to see that they are constantly being held and let them start recruiting/training/spawning/hiring mob types which can protect them from holds. Hell, give mobs a way to adapt to stone tanks.
Obviously the bad guys should have a limit as to how much they can adapt and they shouldn't be able to cover all their holes at the same time, but it think this is one very immersive way to improve the AI.
Bravo. Compared to other games, I've consistently been impressed with the overall quality of decisions that Cryptic has made. I will gladly invest in any new games you guys come out with.
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Ok, the day that my controller can break all the rules and use his AOE hold to mez an entire map for 30 minutes is the day I will agree with this nonsense. Cause right now the "rules" limit him to 10 foes for 10 seconds every 6 minutes. How quaint. Utterly useless. But quaint nonetheless.
The simple point is that if foes can break the rules, then we should be able to break the rules too. But we can't even come close. Wanna make the foes smarter. I'm all for it. You want them to call in backup depending upon what they're fighting. Sounds like a great idea.
You want to start having them firing off untyped damage attacks that ignore all defense and resistances, have unbreakable mez protection, impenetrable shields they can attack thru, unlimited endurance, 100% debuff resistance in addition to attacks that drain endurance, stop health and end recovery, debuff healing, prevent powers from recharging, and be able to destroy that which is clearly labeled as "indestructible", then my friend, we have a SERIOUS problem. This would be a game that, IMO, virtually no one but you would want to play.
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Hamidon and the mitos do damage through Phase Shift to prevent Phantom Army and Phase Shift type powers becoming "required" for a raid.
Fictionally, Hamidon evolves. When he's continually defeated using a particular strategy or power he's naturally going to evolve a counter to it. This ability to attack phase-shifted targets is part of that evolution. Why not simply change the AI so it ignores Phantom Army? Because we don't want it to ignore Phantom Army. Using Phantom Army as a diversion is a perfectly sound tactic. We just didn't want PA to be any better than other pets/minions for that purpose.
We've gotten many PMs with similiar laments about defense, resistance, stealth, etc. All of which are reasonable complaints. However, it's simply not what this particular encounter is. As others have pointed out, in order to make a single entity that can be attacked by 50 players at the same time we have to step outside of the bounds of 'normal' rules in order to make it challenging.
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When the hell was phase "required" for a raid (aside from way way back and that was stopped in the same time period) this just seems mean and serves no purpose, kinda like stopping all those uber mega overpowered /dev blasters from teleporting their crazy overpowered autoturret about.......
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Yeah, I was trying to figure out the same thing. PS lasts for 30 seconds. You can't do a damned thing while it's on. What exactly are you supposed to accomplish/contribute to a hami raid during that 30 seconds that could potentially make or break it? Color me clueless.
Ditto for Phantom Army. They're only out for what, 90 seconds? They can't be perma'd. And they do virtually no damage as most of it heals back. Even if you had a dozen illusion trollers and a herd of PA you still wouldn't accomplish much other than possibly a minor distraction. And since reports state that Hami continues to attack everything even while taunted, I can't see how 1 PA or 50 PA will make any bit of difference.
Unless of course I'm missing something.
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So...I questioned your statement that a power is useless because a) ONE monster in the ENTIRE GAME can shoot through it and b) it has a 30 second timer, and you responded with that much bile? Wow.
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Because now that Hami has "adapted" this ability, the door is wide open for other foes to magically "adapt" this ability. What's to stop the devs from giving giant monsters, Lusca, the Ghost of Scrapyard, any/all of the signature heroes and villains, or any number of zone monsters and AVs the ability to ignore phase shift? In a single word: nothing. And the rationale? "Well, they adapted like all living organisms do."
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The door has always been open. The rationale of "adaption" was a throw away line from Castle because someone was asking for an in-game reason for Hammi having new abilities. The real non-rp reason is "the devs want Hammi to be more challenging" or something along those lines.
I really don't get this whole attitude of "environment cheating" as being a flaw. This isn't PvP. There is no particular reason that NPCs should have the same advantages and limitations as players. The game needs to be balanced so that players all face a similar level of challenge. Whether the NPCs follow all the player character design rules is irrelevant.
Face it, with the limited abilities of AIs mobs need to have limited options and some of those few options may be better than player options. So yeah they "cheat" in that they aren't built like players. But since those are the same mobs that everyone else faces it isn't cheating since all the players are on the same playing field.
Arguing about "cheating" NPCs is like arguing that bishops shouldn't be limited to moving only on the diagonal. It doesn't make sense! A bishop could ride a horse and move around as well as anyone else! It's cheating!
A dark godling can change itself so it can hit out of phase stuff. By the way you can buy stuff that enhances your out of phase powers at any of the stores in Talos, so it's not like it is some super-unknown mechanic. If Paragon City can sell you a spell or tech device to enhance your intangibleness then it seems plenty reasonable that Hami can figure out a way around it, him being a god and all.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
edited
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
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Respecs and slotting do not in any way allow us to adapt in a way that completely invalidates a Power or Pool of Powers. Inventions aren't going to let us do that either. Powers aren't built with the idea that an Ice Toller should be fairly safe from Ice and Cold attacks while taking additional damage from Fire / Heat. Respecs don't allow us to alter our Primary or Secondary lists other that to pick a power at a different time or ignore one in favor of another.
In the Comic books all of the Big Bad Guys have a weakness. We've seen where swarms of Heroes have hit them with everything they have only to be left laying scattered across the fields in need of serious medical care. They are beaten because they have a weakness that some lucky and/or smart Hero discovers and figures out a way to exploit.
Wanna make Hami a challenge? Give him a pool of weakness and have him spawn with a random weakness each time that will require the Heroes to find it and exploit it to win. There won't be a "perfect team" because you won't know what you really need to take him down going in. It will still be one hell of a fight but I think it will feel more like a Super Hero / Comic Book battle and less like the Battle of Thermopylea. Players will feel like they've beaten the baddest thing going and it will never be the same twice .
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I hear Hami is weak against Essence of the Earth... maybe not the Kryptonite you were looking for, but sometimes the best offense is a good defense.