Issue 9 Hamidon Overview, 4/3/2007
By
Anglican,
Posted on: 2007-04-03 11:32 in The Market and Inventions
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Do the attacks from hami / the mitos still ignore defense?
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Yes. Defense is of zero importance.
The only things that help your survival are Toxic Resist, EoEs, Mez Protection, and HP.
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Where would that leave my FF defender? After reading this thread where someone mentioned they saw that all ATs(I suppose this includes all powersets as well) had a use, I fail to see where an FF defender is just as good as a blaster when taking the above quote into account. It still looks like damage, holds, and heals rule supreme and any team would be better served by a scrapper, controller or blaster instead.
FF grants some additional mez protection teams going in for blue and green clearing. Disp bubble adds mez protects at about the same mag as Clarity and CM. Unlimited target aoe mez protects help against the massive mag that the mitos can put out, and help in terms of time-efficiency.
Ok, got it. Thanks. And with only 50 per raid, hopefully I will no longer receive "turn off your bubble, it doesn't do any good and only adds to lag"(please note that only happened my first two times and I kept it off in subsequent raids).
One more question though, is the mag of just one Dispersion high enough? From reading earlier posts, it sounds like you would need some stacking of mez protection for it to be effective.
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Ok, got it. Thanks. And with only 50 per raid, hopefully I will no longer receive "turn off your bubble, it doesn't do any good and only adds to lag"(please note that only happened my first two times and I kept it off in subsequent raids).
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No idea about your server, but I've frequently seen FF defenders used as an integral part of raids, by using the big bubble to effectively nullify 1/3 of the Mitos and removing the need to clear them. (Not that this does you much good in I9.)
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Do the attacks from hami / the mitos still ignore defense?
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Yes. Defense is of zero importance.
The only things that help your survival are Toxic Resist, EoEs, Mez Protection, and HP.
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Where would that leave my FF defender? After reading this thread where someone mentioned they saw that all ATs(I suppose this includes all powersets as well) had a use, I fail to see where an FF defender is just as good as a blaster when taking the above quote into account. It still looks like damage, holds, and heals rule supreme and any team would be better served by a scrapper, controller or blaster instead.
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Don't understeimate youself. You have a ranges attack secondary. You can fill in for a ragned attacker, or just do it. That IS something that you can do. One of my mains is a level 50 Peacebringer. My ranged attacks are even weaker then yours. In fact when I solo, I'm very much like your FF Defender.
"Tankers are Scrapper wannabes." How often has that been heard. Yes they do a lot less damage then Scrappers. But they can pinch hit for a Scrapper. A Blapper can do it, as well. And said Blapper can do the ranged attacker thing too. There is a lot of overlap between the Hero ATs. This new Hamidon is designed with that in mind. There are niches that need to be filled. Several ATs can function in those niches. We hav a lot of redundacy
I think that the eventual strategies will be a coordinated strikes attacks and distraction teams on Hamidon as a whole Having more targets in range make overall survive a little better. Your Dispersion Shield will be invalauble on that situation. And there is some need for Toxic Damage Resistance. If I'm not mistaken, your Bubble and Shield do provide a level of Toxic Damage Resistance.
The bottom line is that the new Hamidon is ALL INCLUSIVE. There is something for everyone to do. And that means EVERYONE including your FF Defender and my second fiddle to all Peacebringer. And the really fun thing is we still haven't figured Hamidon out yet. It's suppose to be doable in 1-2 hours. Come on into the goo. Plenty of debt to go around!!!!! 
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One more question though, is the mag of just one Dispersion high enough? From reading earlier posts, it sounds like you would need some stacking of mez protection for it to be effective.
[/ QUOTE ] No one person is going to stand up to anything Hamidon does without assistance. So you're correct a single bubble probably won't be enough. However your bubble coupled with another? Much better. Or other AoE mezz protections.
There's always something a player can bring to the table. It may not feel like a lot, but there is. Bubbling up the entire Ranged attack force as they head in to take out Blues is no small contribution, even if it doesn't sound as cool as the Melee fighter job of getting a ton of buffs stacked on you and Team TPing in to kill a yellow mito in under 60 seconds. They both end up contributing just as much to the overall success of the raid. 
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Ok, got it. Thanks. And with only 50 per raid, hopefully I will no longer receive "turn off your bubble, it doesn't do any good and only adds to lag"(please note that only happened my first two times and I kept it off in subsequent raids).
One more question though, is the mag of just one Dispersion high enough? From reading earlier posts, it sounds like you would need some stacking of mez protection for it to be effective.
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There's also the Toxic resist from Deflection shield for protection against the Greens.
Insulation shield offers END-drain resistance and 'something' in there is doing END-drain. It's not listed in any of the combat logs or attack descriptions but other people have seen it and I've seen it: Under EoE and BFs, standing there letting hami beat on you, and watching chunks fly off your end bar.
Personal Force Field could conceivably let you pinch-hit for tanking Greens.
New situation; new rules. Don't go in with the common dogma that FF = worthless. Look at the system and see what might or might not be useful
Again: "Oil Slick? WTH?"
I've posted a brief overview of raid-salient geographic features in the abyss and how to move around them safely with the Yellows up. It's in the Consolidated: Hamidon/Abyss thread here.
I still haven't seen anything on the mitos that respawn. Do they respawn at a decreased hp when compared to the original 18? And do they do the same amount of damage as the originals?
Proud member of the LEGION, and Sisterhood
They spawn exactly the same as the initial spawn. Identical.
Marut, 50 FF/Rad/Power Defender - Champion
Leader of The Earthguard
Leader of The Galactic Empire
Gratz on the sticky!
So, setting up a healing umbrella, keeping everyone buffed to the gills, and keep attacking Hami until dead while 54 mitos are firing at you would be futile.
edit: just out of curoisity, did anyone look at the combat logs right after the mitos spawned for any changes in damage?
Proud member of the LEGION, and Sisterhood
No and No. Full HP, full damage.
As an aside, villains' lives are easier now, as Antidote and Thaw now provide Confuse and Fear protects.
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No and No. Full HP, full damage.
As an aside, villains' lives are easier now, as Antidote and Thaw now provide Confuse and Fear protects.
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Yea verily my insp tray runneth over .
Here's some approximate off-the-cuff calculations from a demo snapshot of the Hive:
The Antibodies are 160-175 feet from the base of Hamidon.
The Electrolytes are 105-128 feet from the base of Hamidon.
The Mending Mitos are 55-85 feet from the base of Hamidon.
(A fair amount of this variation is undoubtedly due to their varying heights. The mitos are arranged horizontally in almost perfect hexagons.)
Again, very approximately:
Two adjacent antibodies are ~160 feet apart. Two opposite antibodies are ~330 feet apart. Two non-adjacent, non-opposite antibodies are ~270 feet apart.
Two adjacent electrolytes are ~105 feet apart. Two opposite electrolytes are ~190 feet apart. Two non-adjacent, non-opposite electrolytes are ~187 feet apart.
Two adjacent mending mitos are ~55-70 feet apart. Two opposite mending mitos are ~110 feet apart. Two non-opposite, non-adjacent mending mitos are ~90-100 feet apart.
Assuming that the mitos have ranges of 600/150/150, respectively, this means that the yellows can easily hit anything inside of Hami. Players shouldn't be able to be hit by more than three blues at once as long as they are outside the ring of blues. All six green mitos can hit players slightly ouside of the ring of mending mitos. I'll try to draw a schematic diagram of mito ranges when I have more time.
You can take a look at the maps that are linked at the front. I've got the exact locations and ranges set on 'em. If you're really interested I can get the distance between Mitos for everyone as well.
Just realized they aren't in there. Here's the links. Please save me bandwidth and download. If anyone can point me to a file sharing website I'd be much obliged.
Heroside Map.
Abyss Map.
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Just realized they aren't in there. Here's the links. Please save me bandwidth and download. If anyone can point me to a file sharing website I'd be much obliged.
Heroside Map.
Abyss Map.
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Would it be possible to get maps of the different aggro ranges of the mitos and Hami?
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
I just want to say that Blues have _at least_ a 300ft range, as per my testing last night. I was at the Southeast rock doing my snipe testing and I managed to get blues to attack me while being out of sight from yellows.
I sniped a blue and was feared with it's return fire, from just beyond 300ft. I was near my snipe range limit.
The blues might very well aggro to you if you are 300ft from them, but I can't get close enough without being pelted from the yellows.
But I know that blues _will_ be able to attack you from at least 300ft distance, if you get their attention via a snipe. I sniped one at 320ft or so and it returned fire, as well as two other yellows.
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Would it be possible to get maps of the different aggro ranges of the mitos and Hami?
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We're working on it. We've got /loc data.
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But I know that blues _will_ be able to attack you from at least 300ft distance, if you get their attention via a snipe. I sniped one at 320ft or so and it returned fire, as well as two other yellows.
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..............well that's interesting.
Just an FYI, that demo that I sent you HB, that was after a few minutes of sniping blues to verify this. I thought about making a demo just as I was losing interest in that particular sort of testing, which is why there is only one attempt to snipe in that demo.
Later on after I recorded that demo, I made snipe attempts on yellows, where I scored a hit 7 out of 10 times, with my Snipe. I posted somewhere on these forums about it in one of these Hami threads but I don't recall which one at the moment. I also deduce that a snipe team built similar to my character, would require at least 18 /Energy Blasters without any extra buffs to take out a Mito. Ouch!
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Later on after I recorded that demo, I made snipe attempts on yellows, where I scored a hit 7 out of 10 times, with my Snipe. I posted somewhere on these forums about it in one of these Hami threads but I don't recall which one at the moment. I also deduce that a snipe team built similar to my character, would require at least 18 /Energy Blasters without any extra buffs to take out a Mito. Ouch!
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It might be worth it 
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Just realized they aren't in there. Here's the links. Please save me bandwidth and download. If anyone can point me to a file sharing website I'd be much obliged.
Heroside Map.
Abyss Map.
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Would it be possible to get maps of the different aggro ranges of the mitos and Hami?
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It would, but we don't have solid data. I had one person give me a one man attempt at it, but it's not quite the emperical data I'd need. Human_Being tried it with a demorecord, but that only gives you the locations where they attacked (where you where when the attack was made) and there's a verified 2-3 wait between when you aggro them (with snipe for example) and when they'll have their attack cycled up and used.
At the next hero attempt I'm going to see if I can't get 3 or 4 people to help me figure out that aggro range for Yellows and then after they're clear run an attempt on blues to find the same thing (barring Hami one shot killing the tester on the Blue).
Proposed method for getting aggro range on Yellows/Blues/Greens is this.
1. Have a team with 3 suiciders and a toon with Recall and Rez.
2. The first toon walks DIRECTLY at a Yellow Mito so that they're as far away as possible from the other Yellows.
3. After the first toon dies he MUST be left and the next toon goes on a walk of death directly at the previous.
4. This guy's got to walk slowly because the idea is the first guy walked faster and got killed after he'd moved and gotten aggro.
5. The third toon is just for verification, to test the location that the second died. Both the second and third run /loc commands and report those back.
From that information I can create a buffer range and find a distance for the aggro from each type of mito with interpolation. It also doesn't need to be done with every Mito, just one of each type and possibly Hami himself.
Im still trying to wrap my hands around somethings for Hami raiding... namely the number "6". Why 6? And a zone limit of 50. 6 teams of 8 = 48. Hmm... But if we arent being pushed to dedicated teams, the AT disbursion will be good, but the tpes will be badly forced. Obviously with the high mag mez, sonic and Emp will be needed for Clarity/CM, and this is exactly what caused LSRF to be the un-fun expereience it is. Speific power sets with ATs that are needed. The more raids we can test with, this hopefully wont be how it goes, but from what Ive seen, the new hami will reward certain power sets and exclude others. Does this count as un-fun?
net
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."