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This and every line in my posts are requests
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- To demand or ask for the presence of
- To demand or ask for a meeting of
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Reading Comp FTW
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I am a long time MMO player, I have played at least a dozen and a half MMO's, PtP and free, and have recently settled with WoW and CoX. In WoW, I have not become a PvP god, but I have become pretty dang good, with my 70 hunter and 70 warrior in relatively unimpressive gear. In comparison, in CoX, I entered PvP with my DM/SR stalker, and with top of the line IO's, I was being beaten at every turn in Warburg. I had players seeing me in hide from 200 feet off. I was being hit by players 95% of the time even when they had fear double-stacked, 3 sets of the auto dark de-buff stacks, and I had focused fighting, agil, dodge, and hide, all of which normally has me as untouchable. In PvE, I am almost god-like, I am only hit 15% of the time, with no de-buffs on the enemy, with de-buffs and a couple purples just in case, I have solo'd Miss Liberty and Ms. Liberty. I enter a PvE zone though, and people hone in on me like no tomorrow. I am not kidding, even watching duels and letting people know I am watching the duel, people who are sitting side-by-side with other villains, will immediately pull a boulder out of the ground to hurl it at me, even though I am almost outside of the range of ranged attacks. The one thing that has saved me is my choice of teleport as a travel power. I go into PvP in zones higher than Bloody Bay, and people can see me at sniper range. BALANCE IS A LIE IN PVP (Just like the cake). I may have done decently in PvP if I had chosen a secondary that wasn't super reflexes, which would have possibly done just as well in PvE. But I sit and get killed in 3 shots in PvP. Repeatedly. The only kills I get are when I attack people who are already engaged and are distracted. The only kills I got fairly (if you could say that) were in bloody bay. I will hardly say my PvP strategies are fool-proof, but after playing WoW, which in my opinion has some of the best PvP, and becoming a consistent top-3 ranking PvP'r in all forms on the score-board, and then going into this game, where the accepted strategy for stalkers is my preferred hit-and-run strategy, I must say, even the so-called mighty PvP AT's are brought low by a single wrong power pool when confronted by good ones. People talk about how OP'd stalkers are. Well, we only are in groups, because other-wise, we get demolished. Tankers, scrappers, controllers, blasters, only defenders have been unable to kill me, and that in large part is due to my choice of teleport. PvP between WoW and CoX may not be entirely similar, but when I am destroyed even though I have like +50% defense and can hold a -70% acc on the enemy because I still get hit 95% of the time, it irks me. Also, those who say you need to be rich to be good... well, your standards for rich must be pretty low, I have all lvl 35 or 30 IO's and still another mill left over just from lvl'ing 1-33 in SG mode the whole time and despite forking over 300k to a friend so he can buy some stuff. And now I feel an urge to kill stuff in WoW for the first time in a month. I also have the feeling I may have gotten off-topic and ranted there... oh well.
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Well dude I have a problem with your logic here. You are assuming that a good PvE Build is the same as a good PvP build. It can be, but its not always. So as great as it is that you killed Ms. Liberty and Miss Liberty, that doesnt mean anything in PvP. Also, you are complaining about how the other people could see you. That is because they chose powers with +Perception. They sacrificed powers that could have made their damage or their survivability or their team play better so that they could see you. I hate to break it to you but not every player enjoys getting Assassins Striked in the back while they are typing in a PvP zone. That is why they make sure they take powers like Tactics or Focused Accuracy to see you coming and kill you. And before you start complaining AGAIN, theres a way for you to fix it. Take Stealth. If them sacrificing a power to see you is such a big deal for you, then sacrifice a power to make sure they CANT.
I will agree that the PvP in here could use some work, but the fact of the matter is its not the devs fault that you didnt choose a good power. Its yours, and its easily fixable problem too (respec anyone?). PvP is different here than in WoW, and please, next time you have a problem with something, think about how YOU can fix it instead of complaining to the devs that its THEIR fault.
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I'll put out that my last post was relatively off-topic, rant-ish, and otherwise bad, likely due to it being 3 AM, having just been killed before I could get within placating distance dozens of times, and also being relatively irritable for some reason I can't quite remember at this point yesterday. However, one point I feel should be put out there, is how under-powered SR is, even with the number of +defense things and -acc skills going, it would make sense that the target should at the very least not be able to hit me as often, especially considering I have all my defense skills with 3 +def lvl 35 IO's in them. And it is true that I should pick up stealth. However, I will agree that it is horridly imbalanced. Seriously, its frankly embarassing that with a set based on not getting hit, you get hit as often as some other builds, such as regen. Now, I don't have my final secondary, so who knows, maybe it will surprise me. And I will say, yes, my character is relatively powerful at PvE, however, at the very best of times, it is all luck, I need to hope that I don't get hit, in solo'ing the Liberty family, I was one-shotted on four separate occasions. I get one-shotted by Tank Swipers. Now compare this to say a resistance-based stalker set, and they get hit for a substantially lower amount, and that amount is identical in PvP. Now for another set to take out the liberty family with the same primary, all they would need to do is triple-stack fear, an easy accomplishment, and pop a luck or two at the start to help out. They go into PvP, and while all those -acc reducs don't do much, at least they don't die in three hits from a tanker, those attacks namely being hurl boulder, heavy mallet, and stone mallet. Now, lets take into considertation something different, say a warshade, now I only have experience with these guys in bloody bay, but I feel it should be said now, they are easier to push over than an AFK defender, at least in my experience with them, which is not much. I go into a fight against them, take next to no dmg, despite the lack of no resistances, and proceed to a slaughter. Now, I have no idea how they are in PvE, but considering I have yet to see one on any of my heroes, my guess is they aren't the most popular. Now, lets look at the scrappers. Say claws. Its low dmg, but a fast recharge, and a commonly resisted dmg type. Has two ranged attacks, one cone, one single target. Now, compare this to spines, which has decent dmg, toxic and lethal dmg, a slow, multiple ranged attacks, and a long ranged, -fly immobilize, a threat for all non-teleport capable players. Now, look at kinetics in comparison to say trick arrow for defenders. I once watched a duel between a... something scrapper and the defender in Warburg, the defender just ran around doing siphon speed, siphon power, and fulcrum shift. It was almost comical. The scrapper could not get near the defender to land an attack. Well, I take that back, he hit her once.... for 30 dmg. Now, lets switch again, to dominators... wait, can we even talk about balance here? They have difficulty solo'ing PvE, something I have not had with any other AT. They are decent with domination, but... how do you get domination in PvP short of fight NPC's for 5 minutes ahead of time? Or spending about 30 seconds throwing spells at heroes without it up, in which time you will likely die unless you run off. Tankers now, actually, nah, I don't have enough experience at fighting them with every imaginable dmg type to find out which ones will actually hurt them. Blasters... well, so far I have met ice, and archery in PvP. The archer was easy to kill, and the ice... well he owned everything in sight. And from what I understand, archery can hardly hold its own in end-game being a very commonly resisted dmg type. Controllers... well... the illusion does dmg at least right? I remember playing this in the issue 1 days, having 3 sets of fire imps at a time, now they are down to 1 set of 3, so I am going that not even the famed fire controller does much dmg anymore. Masterminds... well it depends, once more we see imbalance in power sets. A ninja/dark MM can stealth, has two powerful heals, good burst dmg, has debuffs out the kazoo, has a hold, has a fear on top of the pet fear, and with bodyguard mode and said heals, is IMMENSELY difficult to take down. In a one-on-one duel against any /dark MM, I would likely bet on the MM. I once decided to attack a merc/dark MM. He had all his pets on defensive and wasn't paying much attention. I popped 5 enrages, build-up and AS. He went down 1/3 in health, I proceeded towards unleashing every attack I had and got another 1/3 off. I was using siphon life to heal myself, but I was still going down, 1/2 health. Then he noticed me, popped dark fluffy, healed himself, had fluffy heal him, and he was back to full. And then I got feared and couldn't do diddly squat, minus the teleport I just barely managed before a likely death. Now, compare this to say what a /trick arrow or /traps MM could do. Hmmm. Nope, can't do trip mine, detonator maybe? Acid Mortar? Glue arrow? In honesty, the answer is, not much. Now, the argument of 'Well, they are godly at PvE' can be used, except in the case of /Dark. They are godly at PvE, and a pain in the rear to get the dmg to kill in PvP, and with the right primary, can likely kill any attackers with relative ease *cough* ninjas* cough*. Now, this doesn't hold true for ranged opponents, but then you get ranged primaries for all-around ownage. Now, before you say it was just me being a nub, which is likely true, I saw a corruptor, a blaster, a tanker, and a scrapper all of good builds attempt this mastermind. They all ended up quite dead. Would a /traps MM do anywhere nearly as good? I severely doubt it, in fact, I think each of the attackers would have killed this MM if that had been the case. Now, if you somehow see a semblance of actual balance in the above, feel free to inform me. Also, I do apologize for how... rant-ish, off-topic, and otherwise poorly written my first reply was. However, I hardly consider stalkers 'gods' of PvP as some like to portray them when people with the right skills can see them, even when they do have hide and stealth running at once, since I saw some of the most well-known stalkers on my server get taken down not far from me several times from blasters/tankers. Also, it is nigh impossible for a stalker to take down a tanker one-on-one if the stalker is alone and hasn't hit the dmg cap and happens to also be EM. At least high-end it is. Also, in an actual response to Meris608, I mentioned that other secondaries could do just as well in PvE, while far surpassing SR in PvP. What I could see happening is making it so that SR has a 'forced' miss area where it heightens the number 'rolled' for the auto-miss, like say with Agile and focused fighting, increasing the number from up to 5 to up to 20. Hmmm, now to hope this didn't become a rant/off-topic when I get up tomorrow and check it. I should stop posting so late at night when I am irritable and tired. Meh.
Work_ethic,
Well it's good to see that some effort has in fact been made. I did read that post but was indeed ignorant of these improvements.
My reference to a lack of acknowledgment was regarding this particular thread and the issues raised therein. As for why the PvP changes did not raise the game population, I would say that the job is not finished. Once it is and this game has a reputation for balanced enjoyable PvP, I believe it's numbers will swell. I thank you for the discourtesy at the end of your message. It does give insight to the character of a person who actually opposes improvement.
But back on topic....
Developers,
Your customers would like at least an acknowledgment of the concerns we have with your product. We faithfully, but anxiously await your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
meris608
Comp? As in Comprehension? Interesting that you should say that. We are neither asking for the "presence" of or "a meeting" with the Developers. We are asking for a response. I imagine we would settle for a simple acknowledgment.
But back on topic....
Developers,
Your customers would like at least an acknowledgment of the concerns we have with your product. We faithfully, but anxiously await your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
3 words
They................don't.............care
wow.. thats about the biggest wall of text i've ever seen on a PvP topic, from someone who obviously hasnt pvped in a long while.
First off.. your a stalker. HIDE.
secondly, against fear.. USE BREAK FREES.
thirdly, being SR, pop oranges, ya for resists!
and fourth, elude makes you a god. hands down. instead of wasting that infamy on common IOs, use it for sets, like every other PvPer, and benefit yourself.
You can get some really nasty bonuses outta sets, especially in the def area, which you have plenty of. end game, one yellow is better then one purple, meaning, acc is greater then def, as someone can pop enough yellows to hit you no matter what. PLUS, in PvP, its very unlikely you'll be fighting a even level person, with your level enhancements. alot of 50s will play in the low level zones, as they have more enhancements, and more slots to toy around with.
Many Many things affect PvP, and i'm sorry, its not WoW, its not a great big 'rock paper scissors' game. Ask the dev's PvP was balanced around TEAMING, not One on One matches. so, either team, or learn to cover the holes your secondary gives you. Your a defense based powerset, meaning +acc will counter you, so invest in regen set bonuses, or resist set bonuses, so theres more for another person to have to counter.
Its not the devs fault you havent learned to play your character to the best of its ability. They give you the tools, you have to use them.
I disagree. Once again I think it's a matter of properly expressing to the Developers our concerns. The burden of communicating, for now, rests with us the customer.
Arbegla
This is a serious question so please don't get the idea that it's sarcasm.
How would you PvP with a Dark Melee/Invulnerability Brute?
Dude, try using paragraphs. Seriously. I see your posts and just keep scrolling on down the page.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
/killed by wall of text
You pvp with a dark melee/invuln brute by abusing procs, and IOs.
Dark melee has alot of -acc, which you can easily slot the -rech procs into, as well as the -recovery proc. Yes, you may not deal the most damage, but the player your attacking isnt going to be hitting back. You also have the melee IOs to benefit you, which can be used to increase regen, hps, recovery, acc, and damage.
invuln has the psi hole, which everyone knows is easily cover with oranges/psi resist IOs. You can also near perma dull pain with hasten/global rech, and with siphon life in the dark melee set, you have two 'heals' one that requires a tohit check, which if you have enough global acc, shouldnt be a problem, and one that not just heals you, but increases you max hps, which also helps with regen.
Its not a perfect combination, but with enough infamy/time, you can turn it into something that can atlest hold its own. You'll be out performed by spines/DA scrappers and have a hard time shaking rad/psi defenders, atlest till they fix fury in PvP, which ill agree is broken.
With IOs, and better understanding what you can do with them, any combination can be really nice in PvP, you just have to give them tender loving care. I know of atlest two ice/storm trollers, that can floor anyones rech, and make them slower then a snail. Yes, ice/ doesnt have much damage, but thats why its a support toon. Look at each powerset, and find its weakness, then look at the available IOs, and see how you can overcome that.
The arena is a whole different animal, as no matter what combination you pick, people are going to go after the best of the best, in order to accomplish the main goal the quickest, but as everyone knows fire/em and ice/em blasters are most common, find a counter to them, spine/da scrappers? use -acc so they cant heal, ill/kin trollers? use break frees, and -travel to get them on the ground, then pound them a new one. It wont be easy by any means, but its possible.
I personally have a bot/traps MM that can hold its own agaisnt most ice/em blasters, most spine/da scrappers, and a fair share of fire/ems as well. I've also been able to tackle mind/fire doms, with TK being spammed and thier AoEs. And last i checked, the theory behind MMs is that they suck and underperform especially in the arena, due to having to set up the pets. Find a fix, be quick on the buttons.
PvP is only broken if you let it be broken, and refuse to see ways around the 'norm' that people have. IOs add a whole new level of 'evening the odds'
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meris608
Comp? As in Comprehension? Interesting that you should say that. We are neither asking for the "presence" of or "a meeting" with the Developers. We are asking for a response. I imagine we would settle for a simple acknowledgment.
But back on topic....
Developers,
Your customers would like at least an acknowledgment of the concerns we have with your product. We faithfully, but anxiously await your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
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First of all, whats with the "We" thing. As far as I can tell, you are the only one here asking for the devs to sit down and have a nice chat with you about pvp (well besides Open_Source maybe, but I think his problem would fall more under fixing SR)
Second, what you are asking for isnt the point. When you responded to Fuzzy's original definition your defense was that you werent Demanding, you were asking. I was just pointing out that you made a fool of yourself because asking is indeed in the definition.
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The PvP balance in CoH/V is utterly laughable. If there has been any attempt to make PvP in this world balanced, it has failed.
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A long time ago the devs made the point that CoH/V PvP wasn't meant to be balanced one-on-one. Team vs team PvP, however, should even out. I don't know if this is true, I very seldom enter a PvP zone.
What I have observed is that people who regularly PvP go all out for it. They choose the best possible PvP AT, powerset combos, and travel powers. This hard-core PvP philosophy creates the appearance of imbalance in PvP.
If players simply took their concept-built PvE comic book characters into the PvP zones for a little occasional fun, imbalance PvP-side would be much less apparent. But that's not what happens. The PvE folks get driven out of the PvP zones by the hard-core PvPers, who then complain that there's only a few viable ATs and powersets and so the devs better get busy and balance everything for PvP. But it's a false premise that 1) implies that PvP will never be anything but open-zone PvP, and 2) that all ATs and powersets could magically be balanced when the game is instead developing ways in which to differentiate our builds (e.g., inventions).
In CoH/V what we seem to have is PvP without much in the way of objective. PvP is basically kill or be killed, and that wide-open form of PvP is naturally going to breed PvP specialists who build their characters to win in a big, lawless zone. (That it's a comic book game is of minimal importance to them; it's just another PvP environment. Like when a company calls its canned string beans "product" because it doesn't care about the details, only about the profit.)
In order to accommodate the PvE concept builds, PvP objectives must be made tighter and more specific. Base raids are a good example: limited confines to neuter the importance of travel powers, objectives besides kill or be killed, time limits, variable environments, and real risk (to base equipment).
As a suggestion, I would participate in PvP missions where a hero team and a villain team compete within a mission environment to complete a goal. (And the mission environment could be destructible. That would be extra cool.)
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
Arbegla,
Thanks so much. Especially for the perma-dull pain tip. I had thought that such a configuration would work. I am in your debt.
Meris608,
What? Did you happen to notice that I didn't start this thread nor did I even post until very recently. It's kept itself alive for almost a year without me. By whom do you suppose? My imaginary friends? Oh and....'I' am this "Open_Sorce" person that you mention, quite obviously. Also, the point of my post was not to state that we do not have a request. We most certainly do. I think if you read for yourself you'll see that there is no blanket rule against all requests. You should also note that the context of my post was that our request is neither for a meeting or anyone's presence. Our request is to be heard and either responded to or at least acknowledged, again quite obviously. Perhaps, comprehension is still an issue?
Listen, I know that some people would like nothing more than to plant flame bait. They hope to make themselves feel superior by doing so and fail miserably as with most things. I actually find flame bait amusing. It happens in every medium where they cannot be personally and directly challenged. In essence, it is cowardice.
So, let them rant and insult if they must. Most of that is beneath the rest of our collective notice. We all know that they act this way for the same reason the rest of us do not: it's how we were raised. If these types of people do so to the extent of getting the topic closed then we, not they, have won. A closed thread means that someone in authority read it.
Let's also not forget that there is a legitimate issue with the product that should be addressed. When I sent a petition about it, the response email sent me here. As I imagine happened to many others who have posted or who at least follow this issue.
We are here by invitation.
We will not be dissuaded or drawn off topic. We will not simply cease to voice our issues no matter how derogatory or insulting the flamers become.
Back to the topic:
Developers,
We, your loyal paying customers, have found an issue with your product. We are not demanding anything at this point. However we do feel as if we deserve some response to our concerns or at the very least some acknowledgment. We patiently await and expect your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
Thank you, you've actually made my point better than I probably could have. The fact that there are certain powersets and sides of this game that allow players to completely dominate PvP is a big part of the issue. We all know that factors like Perception are different in PvP than in PvE. If this is possible than so is altering the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of some powers, enhancements, etc in PvP ONLY for the purpose of balanced PvP. It could be done without even altering the PvE experience. I believe that it's just a matter of properly editing code.
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
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Work_ethic,
Well it's good to see that some effort has in fact been made. I did read that post but was indeed ignorant of these improvements.
My reference to a lack of acknowledgment was regarding this particular thread and the issues raised therein. As for why the PvP changes did not raise the game population, I would say that the job is not finished. Once it is and this game has a reputation for balanced enjoyable PvP, I believe it's numbers will swell. I thank you for the discourtesy at the end of your message. It does give insight to the character of a person who actually opposes improvement.
But back on topic....
Developers,
Your customers would like at least an acknowledgment of the concerns we have with your product. We faithfully, but anxiously await your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
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Their job is not done? Excuse me? PvP has been in this game for 2 and a half years. And you feel that their job is not done?
What else would you have them do? You sit their and arrogantly want your concerns and needs addressed but you have yet to say what your concerns and needs are beyond the mythical "balance". What you want would require time and money and man hours that they WILL NOT DEVOTE BECAUSE PVP DOES NOT NOR WILL IT EVER BRING UP THE SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS. Yet, you sit there and say in bolded words like a loud child you want at least an "acknowledgement of the concerns we have with your products".
I showed you that they acknowledged your concerns with the efforts of Ex Libris in the past year. You read the "Campfire" thread and if you did any research into the cause which you have decided to raise your flag you would that there have seen much "acknowledgement" into your concerns.
Now, we have you saying that if this game can gain a "reputation for balanced enjoyable PvP" you believe it's number will swell. So, off of your "beliefs" the developers should spend more time and more money and more man hours to improve an aspect that has NOT raised the subscription numbers in the past 2 and half years?
No.
They will not. I will tell you why. There is NOTHING else they can do to "fix" or "balance" PvP to suit your needs that will not take probably hundreds of man hours to re-work the game code. That is money, time, man-hours again being WASTED in an aspect of the game that WILL NOT improve the subscrpition numbers. On the other hand, they have taken time, money and man hours to bring out weapon customization, the flashback system, and many numerous other aspects to the PvE majority of the game. Has the number on the PvE aspect grown? No. BUT the number has remained stable. And that stable number is MUCH LARGER than the unstable number of the PvP population. To use Ex Libris own phrase- "she goes where the bleeding is".
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Arbegla,
Thanks so much. Especially for the perma-dull pain tip. I had thought that such a configuration would work. I am in your debt.
Meris608,
What? Did you happen to notice that I didn't start this thread nor did I even post until very recently. It's kept itself alive for almost a year without me. By whom do you suppose? My imaginary friends? Oh and....'I' am this "Open_Sorce" person that you mention, quite obviously. Also, the point of my post was not to state that we do not have a request. We most certainly do. I think if you read for yourself you'll see that there is no blanket rule against all requests. You should also note that the context of my post was that our request is neither for a meeting or anyone's presence. Our request is to be heard and either responded to or at least acknowledged, again quite obviously. Perhaps, comprehension is still an issue?
Listen, I know that some people would like nothing more than to plant flame bait. They hope to make themselves feel superior by doing so and fail miserably as with most things. I actually find flame bait amusing. It happens in every medium where they cannot be personally and directly challenged. In essence, it is cowardice.
So, let them rant and insult if they must. Most of that is beneath the rest of our collective notice. We all know that they act this way for the same reason the rest of us do not: it's how we were raised. If these types of people do so to the extent of getting the topic closed then we, not they, have won. A closed thread means that someone in authority read it.
Let's also not forget that there is a legitimate issue with the product that should be addressed. When I sent a petition about it, the response email sent me here. As I imagine happened to many others who have posted or who at least follow this issue.
We are here by invitation.
We will not be dissuaded or drawn off topic. We will not simply cease to voice our issues no matter how derogatory or insulting the flamers become.
Back to the topic:
Developers,
We, your loyal paying customers, have found an issue with your product. We are not demanding anything at this point. However we do feel as if we deserve some response to our concerns or at the very least some acknowledgment. We patiently await and expect your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
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You're right, I meant Oneshot_Kills. My bad, ill edit that.
Anyway, in case you havent read the actual thread before u posted, the person who started the thread is done. Ill quote her for you:
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Please consider this thread locked and thank you all.
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By Colette, Page 11.
And let me quote this part from you.
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Also, the point of my post was not to state that we do not have a request. We most certainly do. I think if you read for yourself you'll see that there is no blanket rule against all requests.
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Who said anything about you not having a request? Its pretty obvious you do, you put it at the end of ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POSTS. And you say there is no rule against requests, but there IS a rule against calling out the devs, which you are doing (as Fuzzy Chainsaw pointed out).
Let me put it this way: I agree with you that PvP is unbalanced. I really do, its pretty obvious. But I dont think that the answer is to put a "Request" in big bold letters at the bottom of around, what is it now, 6 posts? Its annoying and it wont get you anywhere. And honestly, I think that PvP is near the very bottom of the Devs "To-Do" lists. You stated before that this game has a lot of great things going for it, and I think you are right. THAT is whats getting the people to come, and THAT is whats going to keep the people here. I think that the devs are focusing on something whos only real purpose now is to list under features for the game. And dont think they wont do that, look at the Cathedral of Pain trial. Its been down since around a month after its launch and it STILL isnt back up, yet they still put it on the features list on the back of the box.
As a side note, Balancing PvP is a hell of a lot easier said than done. This game lets you have a LOT of choices, and making sure that each and every combination is on par with every single other one is completely impossible. They just don't have the resources. This game will never have completely balanced pvp, I think that we need to accept that.
Also, about your comment about "Some People" planting "Flame Bait". I just have to laugh at that. Look at your original thread. You pretty much walked in, said "The PvP here sucks. You devs totally suck. You should have fixed PvP its been over a year!" If that doesn't start a flame war I dont know what will...
Last thing. If you are under the impression that the Devs are going to come in here, see your big bold letters and go "Oh wow, this guy wants PvP fixed, we better get right on that" you are wrong. So my suggestion to you is to stop whining like the little 10 year old kid im sure you are and if you REALLY dont like it here, then you can go play WoW or something instead of clogging up the boards with your complaining.
I'm all for PvP getting re-balanced to work for other ATs/Powersets, however it would have to make sure it did not harm the PvE game in the slightest.
PvE should never suffer because of PvP.
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Work_ethic,
Well it's good to see that some effort has in fact been made. I did read that post but was indeed ignorant of these improvements.
My reference to a lack of acknowledgment was regarding this particular thread and the issues raised therein. As for why the PvP changes did not raise the game population, I would say that the job is not finished. Once it is and this game has a reputation for balanced enjoyable PvP, I believe it's numbers will swell. I thank you for the discourtesy at the end of your message. It does give insight to the character of a person who actually opposes improvement.
But back on topic....
Developers,
Your customers would like at least an acknowledgment of the concerns we have with your product. We faithfully, but anxiously await your response.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
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Their job is not done? Excuse me? PvP has been in this game for 2 and a half years. And you feel that their job is not done?
What else would you have them do? You sit their and arrogantly want your concerns and needs addressed but you have yet to say what your concerns and needs are beyond the mythical "balance". What you want would require time and money and man hours that they WILL NOT DEVOTE BECAUSE PVP DOES NOT NOR WILL IT EVER BRING UP THE SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS. Yet, you sit there and say in bolded words like a loud child you want at least an "acknowledgement of the concerns we have with your products".
I showed you that they acknowledged your concerns with the efforts of Ex Libris in the past year. You read the "Campfire" thread and if you did any research into the cause which you have decided to raise your flag you would that there have seen much "acknowledgement" into your concerns.
Now, we have you saying that if this game can gain a "reputation for balanced enjoyable PvP" you believe it's number will swell. So, off of your "beliefs" the developers should spend more time and more money and more man hours to improve an aspect that has NOT raised the subscription numbers in the past 2 and half years?
No.
They will not. I will tell you why. There is NOTHING else they can do to "fix" or "balance" PvP to suit your needs that will not take probably hundreds of man hours to re-work the game code. That is money, time, man-hours again being WASTED in an aspect of the game that WILL NOT improve the subscrpition numbers. On the other hand, they have taken time, money and man hours to bring out weapon customization, the flashback system, and many numerous other aspects to the PvE majority of the game. Has the number on the PvE aspect grown? No. BUT the number has remained stable. And that stable number is MUCH LARGER than the unstable number of the PvP population. To use Ex Libris own phrase- "she goes where the bleeding is".
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Quoted from a few friend's sig's:
Devs: "Why does PvP suck so bad?!"
Players: "Because you guys don't support it at all"
Devs: "We don't support it because there are not enough players doing PvP!"
Players: "We are not PvPing cause you are not supporting it!"
Please explain to me where you absolutely, have no doubt about it, actually [u]know[u] that by spending time on something the Devs spent an entire issue on, only to ignore it later, will never ever, ever, in the entire lifetime of the game, increase the amount of subscribers to the game.
And how can you say the job isn't done? For one, there are so many bugs in PvP at the moment, but, zomg! Their job is done, you can't improve it anymore at all! Lulz, Have you ever seen Hero vs Villain Team PvP, where Heroes will completely dominate the Villains, no matter how good they are? Yet again, you are wrong in speaking in a place where you have no right to speak.
Also, there are MANY things the Devs can do to balance at least Team PvP, such as equalizing PPP's and APP's, for one example.
And to add, I have seen many people reactivate their accounts because of CoX's PvP, and I have seen entire Supergroups quit so they can move to a game where the PvP is actually monitored and popular. But of course, this can't mean that PvP can raise or lower subscription numbers...lulz. 
So try again on assuming you know everything there is about CoX and its PvP, when you really, really don't.
22 50's in Bio
@Siphonic
RIP PX, GMW, and the game that used to be fun.
Still playing for reasons unknown.
LOL.
No more money and time will be wasted on the failed endevour that is the PvP in Cox.
Deal with it.
::Edit:: I'm sure they will fix the bugs- which I believe they should but beyond that, read the above statement.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Developers,
We, your loyal paying customers, have found an issue with your product. We are not demanding anything at this point. However we do feel as if we deserve some response to our concerns or at the very least some acknowledgment. We patiently await and expect your response.
Thanks so much!
[/ QUOTE ]Dissatisfied Customer,
We acknowledge your concerns, have weighed all possible options, and have decided to politely ask you for "less QQ moar pewpew"
Thanks so much!
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Teh_Siph,
Thank you so much for your post. Every day I hear people complain about and laugh about PvP in-game. Rarely do they develop the drive or perhaps the courage to say so here.
NC Soft does their homework. They KNOW that balancing PvP will pay off and I would imagine it's on the to-do list, especially with Cryptic working on their marvelous new product. The time for NC Soft to listen to their subscribers is now. I think they know it.
On another subject, you other guys keep posting. It keeps the thread on top. Was I talking about you when I described flamers? That's a question only you can answer.
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
Meris
Okay.....I don't know how many ways I can explain this.
Please read the following lines repeatedly (that means over and over) until you understand.
RULE SAY: NO ASK MEETING
RULE SAY: NO ASK PRESENCE
ASK MEETING IS CALLING OUT. ASK PRESENCE IS CALLING OUT.
WE NO ASK MEETING. WE NO ASK PRESENCE. WE NO CALLING OUT.
WE ASK FOR ANSWERS
Get it yet? No? Read it again.
Whether or not the originator of this post is satisfied or not is irrelevant. The rest of us would like some response.
Keep posting, it helps us.
Back to topic....
Developers,
We, members of your paying customer base, have an issue with a part of your product. PvP is broken. Please respond as soon as possible.
Thanks so much!
Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
Junno,
I agree wholeheartedly. If you use the test server you'll notice that some parts of the game, perception for one, work differently in PvP than in PvE. This, I believe, is a matter of simply editing code.
Thank you for posting. Every post helps :-)
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I am a long time MMO player, I have played at least a dozen and a half MMO's, PtP and free, and have recently settled with WoW and CoX. In WoW, I have not become a PvP god, but I have become pretty dang good, with my 70 hunter and 70 warrior in relatively unimpressive gear. In comparison, in CoX, I entered PvP with my DM/SR stalker, and with top of the line IO's, I was being beaten at every turn in Warburg. I had players seeing me in hide from 200 feet off. I was being hit by players 95% of the time even when they had fear double-stacked, 3 sets of the auto dark de-buff stacks, and I had focused fighting, agil, dodge, and hide, all of which normally has me as untouchable. In PvE, I am almost god-like, I am only hit 15% of the time, with no de-buffs on the enemy, with de-buffs and a couple purples just in case, I have solo'd Miss Liberty and Ms. Liberty. I enter a PvE zone though, and people hone in on me like no tomorrow. I am not kidding, even watching duels and letting people know I am watching the duel, people who are sitting side-by-side with other villains, will immediately pull a boulder out of the ground to hurl it at me, even though I am almost outside of the range of ranged attacks. The one thing that has saved me is my choice of teleport as a travel power. I go into PvP in zones higher than Bloody Bay, and people can see me at sniper range. BALANCE IS A LIE IN PVP (Just like the cake). I may have done decently in PvP if I had chosen a secondary that wasn't super reflexes, which would have possibly done just as well in PvE. But I sit and get killed in 3 shots in PvP. Repeatedly. The only kills I get are when I attack people who are already engaged and are distracted. The only kills I got fairly (if you could say that) were in bloody bay. I will hardly say my PvP strategies are fool-proof, but after playing WoW, which in my opinion has some of the best PvP, and becoming a consistent top-3 ranking PvP'r in all forms on the score-board, and then going into this game, where the accepted strategy for stalkers is my preferred hit-and-run strategy, I must say, even the so-called mighty PvP AT's are brought low by a single wrong power pool when confronted by good ones. People talk about how OP'd stalkers are. Well, we only are in groups, because other-wise, we get demolished. Tankers, scrappers, controllers, blasters, only defenders have been unable to kill me, and that in large part is due to my choice of teleport. PvP between WoW and CoX may not be entirely similar, but when I am destroyed even though I have like +50% defense and can hold a -70% acc on the enemy because I still get hit 95% of the time, it irks me. Also, those who say you need to be rich to be good... well, your standards for rich must be pretty low, I have all lvl 35 or 30 IO's and still another mill left over just from lvl'ing 1-33 in SG mode the whole time and despite forking over 300k to a friend so he can buy some stuff. And now I feel an urge to kill stuff in WoW for the first time in a month. I also have the feeling I may have gotten off-topic and ranted there... oh well.
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Well dude I have a problem with your logic here. You are assuming that a good PvE Build is the same as a good PvP build. It can be, but its not always. So as great as it is that you killed Ms. Liberty and Miss Liberty, that doesnt mean anything in PvP. Also, you are complaining about how the other people could see you. That is because they chose powers with +Perception. They sacrificed powers that could have made their damage or their survivability or their team play better so that they could see you. I hate to break it to you but not every player enjoys getting Assassins Striked in the back while they are typing in a PvP zone. That is why they make sure they take powers like Tactics or Focused Accuracy to see you coming and kill you. And before you start complaining AGAIN, theres a way for you to fix it. Take Stealth. If them sacrificing a power to see you is such a big deal for you, then sacrifice a power to make sure they CANT.
I will agree that the PvP in here could use some work, but the fact of the matter is its not the devs fault that you didnt choose a good power. Its yours, and its easily fixable problem too (respec anyone?). PvP is different here than in WoW, and please, next time you have a problem with something, think about how YOU can fix it instead of complaining to the devs that its THEIR fault.