Back Story Power Pools

What if BSPP's would be unlocked (as in their Pools become available) if and when a character does specific things? Like the Merchant Pool would be unlocked after you sell all enhancements w/o slotting for one complete level? Or the Student/Mentor Pools being unlocked if you complete a full story arc with a Mentor/Sidekick?

I think that would add more interest to the gameplay since people will not know (at first) how to unlock BSPP Pools and once they become available people will have more to talk about just like the Badges of today.

Interesting idea, but are you proposing that it is possible to obtain every BSPP?

I don't fancy the idea of someone being able to obtain them all, as it would defeat the idea of individuality I had in mind.

I can't fully argue it, it just sounds a bit different than what I had before.

Interesting idea, though, and it is not without merit. Thank you!

Edit: I looked at this idea above me again, and I really like it! Obviously, there are other ideas, and they all need to be debated and ironed out, but I realized what you were saying about an alternative to Badges. This is definately going on the list of alternate ideas.

It's a creative & fuzzy concept. Very good for those who delve more deeply into the RPG aspect of the game.

Add it to the list behind Villain Epic AT's & Customizable Powers.

Love the Idea. push it more! sell sell sell sell sell sell!

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Interesting idea, but are you proposing that it is possible to obtain every BSPP?

I don't fancy the idea of someone being able to obtain them all, as it would defeat the idea of individuality I had in mind.

I can't fully argue it, it just sounds a bit different than what I had before.

Interesting idea, though, and it is not without merit. Thank you!

Edit: I looked at this idea above me again, and I really like it! Obviously, there are other ideas, and they all need to be debated and ironed out, but I realized what you were saying about an alternative to Badges. This is definately going on the list of alternate ideas.

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First, thank you for this concept to begin with

Secondly, much like the normal Pool Powers, there could be a limit of lets say 4 or 6 Backstory Power Pools... once you unlocked the last one, that's it, you can unlock more but you cannot gain the use of the other power pools anymore. This is to encourage people to discover all the ways a BSPP could be unlocked even though they cannot choose ALL of them on one character.

I wanted to add another Back Story Power Pool:

[u]Phylantropist[u]
You've always looked after others before yourself, in return, the Cosmos looks after you.

1) Cosmic Balance - From now on, every Enhancement you buy will cost 10% more, but will be 5% stronger.
2) Famous Status - Someone has told the media that you are the one donating to lost causes and helping Heroes jumpstart their careers; any Enhancent-drop is now going to be 5% stronger and bring 5% more INF when sold.
3) Cosmic Justice - From now on, every Inspiration costs 5% less and will last 10% longer and be 5% stronger.
4) Karma - If you die, the Cosmos rages over the injustice done to one of its protectors, therefor when you are resurrected, your team (and you) will get 10% +ACC/+DMG/+DEF/+RES(All) Bonous for 180 seconds. (This power will not activate if you go to the Hospital.)

This Pool is for people who want to maximize their Enhancement/Inspiration usage and includes an ultimate buff that may actually cause players you sacrifice their lives at least once a mission...

What do you think?

I would also like to say that in my opinion, Backstory Powers should be picked along-side your normal Powers and not come at their expense. What I mean is that the Player would unlock a BSPP (like I've mentioned before in my previous post) and once the Character levels up and can pick the next Power, instead of being able to pick just one Power, the Player can now pick the power they want as well as the next Backstory Power from the unlocked BSPP's.

This will solve the problem of picking Backstory Powers to help define your character's role-play aspects and at the same time not gimp your character's power-choices. Of course this means Backstory Powers are unslottable and will probably always be passive auto-powers.

(This is in response to both posts above this one.)

Phylantropist, while a tricky word to spell, is a very good idea. I like it quite a bit, actually. I think, in the original concept of BSPPs, I had this, but it was labeled Survivalist, and it reflected one's ability to draw the full value from anything, as it was the only way to scrape by for a while.

I will definately include it, but I am going to lower the percentages a bit, as it seems over powered as is. As I stated before, these should change the way one heads into battle, but not the battle strategy itself.

Additionally, insignificantly, I am going to change the flavor text to reflect the idea that both Heroes and Villains could obtain this pool.

Xenite, your idea for obtaining BSPPs "on the side" was a rather popular one towards the beginning of this entire discussion, and it will most definately make the cut on V 2.0 of this thread.

Back Story Power Pool Update: 3/28/07

For a while now, I've been promising to update this idea based on feedback so generously given in this thread. Originally, this update was to appear this Friday, 3/30/07. Due to request, however, the release date of V 2.0 will be 4/06/07 (The Friday following the previous projected date).

If you believe you have a valuable contribution to this idea, I want to hear from you!

In the second version of this thread, I will be including [u]all[u] alternate ideas that have been suggested in this thread, crediting the first to have posted the idea in its used incarnation.

This idea is a good one. I believe that, and so do several of you. Let's continue to support it, in hopes that, eventually, the Devs will discuss it with us.

Thank you.

Marcian

Thanks, sounds good to me. Feel free to tweak the %'s as the Devs will balance and re-balance stuff anyway

ZOMG I love this idea


/SIGNED
/Signed again
/ I need to sign onto this a third time :&gt

I really love this idea, though it will be hard to fit those powers in among all the others.

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What if BSPP's would be unlocked (as in their Pools become available) if and when a character does specific things? Like the Merchant Pool would be unlocked after you sell all enhancements w/o slotting for one complete level? Or the Student/Mentor Pools being unlocked if you complete a full story arc with a Mentor/Sidekick?

I think that would add more interest to the gameplay since people will not know (at first) how to unlock BSPP Pools and once they become available people will have more to talk about just like the Badges of today.

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The only problem I have with your idea for unlocking Merchant is that it makes it impossible to gain the pool as a level 50. Other than that, I love the ideas put forth in this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venture I'd never use a nuke in a superhero universe. You nuke a city, you kill 1.5 million people minus one. The last guy not only gets superpowers from the explosion, but ones that let him survive a nuke...and wow, is he torqued off

I actually would like to see alternate ways to unlock each BSPP, and I trust the mighty Devs to come up with awesome ideas as to how to do that even for level 50's

I actually think a square boardgame structure for "life structure" would work, especially if there was some sort of high level addition of "adding squares" by laying down tiles in a square spiral pattern -- creating areas so to speak.

Of course, keep in mind this would be "present life" so that ones background and past would not be included so much as ones as ones present management of all resources and activities.

As to 2.0, I really do not think it makes much of a difference to me, if it's still a bunch of feats. I mean "rogue" and "merchant" for crying out loud? This is a superhero game. Try "reformed criminal" and "CEO".

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As to 2.0, I really do not think it makes much of a difference to me, if it's still a bunch of feats. I mean "rogue" and "merchant" for crying out loud? This is a superhero game. Try "reformed criminal" and "CEO".

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This was discussed on either page two or three of this thread, but I don't blame anyone who hasn't trudged this mess.

When designing the Back Story Power Pools, I wanted to accommodate everyone's imagination. Merchant, to me, is CEO. He was designed with my main in mind. This is not, however, how everyone would play. It is just as viable and respectable to have a simple shoe salesman from the Midwest gain super powers as the CEO of Drake Enterprises. Also, not everyone who is a "rogue" is a reformed criminal. In some ancient societies, they would not have been deemed criminals (see: Sparta). Also, there is no evidence that they are reformed. Robin Hood is almost unarguably a hero, but he committed crimes for which he was not repentant until the day he died.

So, as you see, we can't get too specific, or it would be excluding several ideas. It is for this reason that I chose the most generic terms possible.

Hope that clear something up.

~Marcian

I think this is a great idea.

However, I believe that these should definitely take the place of regular powers. That way, the increase customization. More power pools makes my Sonic/Ice Blaster different from other Sonic/Ice blasters. As it is now, I'm forced to take most of the powers in my primary/secondary because there aren't a tremendous amount of outside options.

making these a separate track just makes everyone more powerful, which is not really something the game needs. Besides, if there are only 5 or 6 background sets, and everyone has one, they aren't going to feel very special.

KK

Yes, but you immediately suggest at the wrong ideas when you use medieval rpg terms such as rogue and merchant in preference to reformed convict or tycoon. A rogue is just as much a category with use as reformed convict, but the problem is that in the minds of the wider public the word rogue suggests medieval fantasy roleplaying not modern superheroism.

I suggest that you come up with terms and modes from non-medieval sources for a superhero game. But this is a suggestion that has no more nor less merit than your own suggestions.

As to "back story", the problem is that there are so many various backstory elements that any single one could close off hundreds more. A backstory should in any case include present structuring of life as primary. Especially in a game that is not RPG enforced.

After reading up on some other "similar" games, while this would be a huge undertaking, I really think this is something that would be a great addition to this game. This would be a huge step forward for the RPG aspect of this game, and have benefits even for those who just like to beat things up.

Amazing suggestion! I LOVE how this isn't focused on just the fighting, but rather increases other aspects of the game.

The only thing I'm wondering is if its ok that if you want a full background set, you need to use up four powers. =/ Still, the concept itself is brilliant and definatley deserves a good hard look at from the devs. This is really something I think that can help rid some of the monotony of constant missions. It lets a player play how they want, and rewards them for it

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Yes, but you immediately suggest at the wrong ideas when you use medieval rpg terms such as rogue and merchant in preference to reformed convict or tycoon. A rogue is just as much a category with use as reformed convict, but the problem is that in the minds of the wider public the word rogue suggests medieval fantasy roleplaying not modern superheroism.

I suggest that you come up with terms and modes from non-medieval sources for a superhero game. But this is a suggestion that has no more nor less merit than your own suggestions.

As to "back story", the problem is that there are so many various backstory elements that any single one could close off hundreds more. A backstory should in any case include present structuring of life as primary. Especially in a game that is not RPG enforced.

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You tie the term Rogue with medieval fantasy where in the game-industry there were several references to Rogue, and of course lets not forget the character Rogue from the X-Men. Also, the term Merchant is still widely in use in a lot of references that have nothing to do with Medieval Fantasy, this issue is clearly in the eyes of the beholder. Secondly, what if my character is in fact a 3000 years old Egyptian Merchant who was brought forward in time by a magical portal and left to fend for himself... how do you propose people will be able tell a story like that at all? After all, the word Merchant will be confusing enough let alone Tycoon.

In my opinion, Roleplaying is about playing a role, and one of the things that define a role is the language which the character playing this role understands. If my character's background is a 3,000 years old Golden Scaraab vendor, or if its the son of a CEO in charge of a Corporation, using a language that most characters are likely to understand will prove vital to communication.

Perhaps the words Tycoon/Merchant are both wrong in this context as the idea this specific backstory power pool is trying to convey is that the person is knowledgable in getting a good deal no matter who he/she deals with and not that they are actually a Tycoon, or ever had a shop or bought and sold stocks of products...

I lOVE this idea. My suggestion or leveling- make them inherant powers (the first pool chosen at character creation, the others unlocked in game by things you do). They would be recieved at "slot-only" levels.

The first pool you choose is your "background" and pieces of it arrives as you settle into paragon/the rogue isles and pieces of your past intersect with the presant. (A letter of recomendation from a former business partner, learning the way around the criminal underground, or just the way through the streets...you get the idea).

Pieces of your first pool are the only one available for the first x number of levels until you start unlocking other pools. (Your first mayhem/safeguard badge, your first mentoring or sidekick badge, etc., your first time selling a do at the proper store.) When you go through a trigger event the game pops up some sort of window that is is time to contemplate whether you "like" this sort of thing and to consider "specializing" in it at your next leveling opportunity.

Phase-light
(formerly bloodstryke)

the object of the BSP is NOT to take away character options (by having players "waste" power selections on background powers)
NOR is it a collection of exceptionally awsome powers, used to create a "less archtypal" character.


This system is NOT a way to make your "ice/ice" different from another "ice/ice" from a power's perspective


it is to make one CHARACTER different from another CHARACTER.





as such, the "Benifits" of such a system should be minimal, but solid. also, they should NOT replace the functions and abilities of primary and secondary power sets.

I see no problem with some overlapping with other powerpools (as an "Apothicary" bspp would likely have SOME similarities to the medicine power pool)
but it must be a mild thing.
again, BSPPs should not replace the abilities and benifits of the power pools.



you have to realize, that were discussing a system that (in general consensus) will be "free" powers that a character has the OPTION to choose over the course of his/her life as a hero or villain.

if ANY powers from ANY sets outright replace a primary/secondary/pool power....
then we have created a BSPP that is "required" by most players....

much like stamina is considered "required".






That is NOT the intent of the BSPs.

the Backstory powers are intended to augement PLAYSTYLES, not power choices.

look at the original list...

we have loners, and teamers, and crafters, and barginers, and disreputables....

we have a blending of two main concepts: "IC" character backstories having an ingame indicator, and accolade-like bonuses for particular IC/OOC playstyles (enabling non-character centric players to still have something useful in the system, by choosing BSPs that fit their particular playstyles.)



that was the intent of the idea (even though, originally, Tobay suggested it be part of the standard pool list)

and should REMAIN the intent of the idea.....





its what makes the idea great.

Empress ...I'm guessing you were just replying to me because I was the most recent post right? I'm proposing chosing these at slot only levels, it would have nothing to do with regular power selection, except where they, may or may not, slightly enhance a character's powers in very limited circomstances.

Phase Light

That your character is thousands of years old is hardly of issue to the game at large where the very game structure assumes that characters begin as new heroes. Notably, we all start at first or second level. Even with greater and greater age variants we come into the problem of some characters beginning with more power than others, and due to the nonreactive and scattershot opponent response function that Cryptic seems hampered with, there is no way to balance great power with greater responsibility.

What would work is to establish that more powerful heroes attract focused attention from villain groups, their friends tend to be kidnapped, their professional life goes haywire, etc. However, Cryptic seems to see fit to permit that criminal groups stand around on busy public streets, in clusters fifty feet from eachother, and do not change their plots often -- for seasons superheroes encounter exactly the same villain plots as eachother.

Hence, the constant balancing and rebalancing that Cryptic does, their limit on individuality in power choice and their disconcerting boundaries on gameplay variance.

Now, when you mention that heroes should have individual backgrounds and that it should have influence on gameplay in a mechanical fashion, I agree. Game mechanics should permit this. Game mechanics should also permit that heroes have individual housing, that supergroups are not necessary nor even of foremost expedience in assisting heroes in inventions, headquarters, artifacts, and other nicities that are presently offered superheroes.

The problem is City of Heroes seems to be adhered to a dysfunctional paradigm of MMORPG design that is founded in the less than entertaining forms of text-based MUD hack and slash games. Rather than emulate WoW or Everquest, they should consider both LARP and RPG structures and fit these into a larger game. Oh, and can the stupid redundant "story plot" lines. Theme can be carried on through large story events and clues.

However, the only thing I disagree on is your suggested form for the "background story" that is incorporated into a life experience chart. I do not believe there should be a listing of past profession rather than modern profession outside being a superhero.

What you seem to think is that to provide "D&D feats" such as merchant, rogue, etc. categorically embraces all City of Heroes backgrounds that are economic or ex-criminal (or just sly). The reason why I refer to these as D&D feats is because you gave a list that could feasibly come from a D&D game -- and probably did.

While on the one hand you claim that merchants are justifiable because *some* characters have archaic backgrounds, do you think that the game has a plethora of merchants and rogues wandering around at present date? I think not.

As to the other "background classes" you offer and their powers, these seem to be without recognition of the gameplay as it occurs presently. For example, permitting large discount of influence for purchases because of a mercantile ability seems both inapropo and slightly more powerful than it should be.

What *should* happen is considerably more complex and interesting -- and involves an adaptation of sims game structure to a larger extent than City of Heroes presently has -- and, as I have stated, an adaptation of roleplaying game structure excluding what is dross in present MMORPG structure.

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Good job...shall we start a comprehensive list of the ones we want then?

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A Master list will be included in the aforementioned "Back Story Power Pools V. 2.0".

Off the top of my head, here are the ideas:

Rogue: Increases Newspaper Mission fun.
Student: Dedicate one's self to sidekick.
Mentor: Dedicate one's self to teaching others.
Genius: Receives Items at an increased pace.
Lone Wolf: Excellent for Soloing Missions.
Divine: Receives minimal punishments for death, enabling a "reckless" playing style.
Merchant: Favors Story Contacts, with whom purchases and sales are very profitable.

and more when I think of them...

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Adding two more ideas

Refugee: Whether you escaped from abuse, the rikti invasion, tyranical rulers from alternate dimensions or something else, the experience has made you wary and more capable of escaping capture (minor powers to mitigate or escape the effect of various holds)

Hunter : One villain group in particular has wronged you in the past and you are hunting them relentlessly to prevent them from harming others like they did you. (minor boosts to attacks and defenses against specific villain groups)


Also, if these are to be essentially free, like permanent temporary powers, the effects must be very small, probably much less than initially proposed.
Pool powers after all are balanced around the fact that you have to give up primary or secondary powers, or other pools.
That said, it stand to reason to have them outside the regular power choice system as they are not in fact powers but backstory elements that affect your powers.
For that reason I also think there should be a limited number you can choose and that must be done relatively early into the development. Maybe one choice every 3 levels starting with the inherent origin power at level 1 for 6 choices total (i.e. the last option to pick one is at level 16). That would give sufficient choices to tailor your character but not so much that the cumulative power of them would be too great. It does mean however that every backstory powerpool would need 5 or 6 choices instead of the 4 or powerpools (otherwise specialisation is not really meaningful)


Nadira