Statesman speaks at serious games summit
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2006-10-31 18:17 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yay, let's continue to crap on Statesman! We're at 10 pages now, keep it going!
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Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
Whoah, that was fun. Same time next week? 
~Gabriel
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Personally I would settle for a single unit You-Store-It shed with a recliner and a tv.
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Ever read the book Snow Crash? The main character lives inside a self storage unit, and basically spends his free time goggling into the "metaverse" (think if the entire internet was one big third person MMOG).
*heh*
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Yay, let's continue to crap on Statesman! We're at 10 pages now, keep it going!
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So disagreeing with Jack Emmert = crapping on him? That's an interesting thesaurus you have there.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Personally I would settle for a single unit You-Store-It shed with a recliner and a tv.
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Ever read the book Snow Crash? The main character lives inside a self storage unit, and basically spends his free time goggling into the "metaverse" (think if the entire internet was one big third person MMOG).
*heh*
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Reminds me of a lot of MMOG players, essentially. Storage unit, parent's basement, cheap apartment, prison cell...
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Yay, let's continue to crap on Statesman! We're at 10 pages now, keep it going!
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Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
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Excellent point, Kali
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Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
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By no means do I think success devalues art. But I do think success doesn't value art, either, and it's easy to see from their attitudes that a lot of successful professionals feel validated by their income brackets.
Surely you wouldn't argue that.
~Gabriel
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Yay, let's continue to crap on Statesman! We're at 10 pages now, keep it going!
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
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/agree
It's one thing to disagree; hell, there are things I'm openly critical of Cryptic on. Heck - I'll go so far as to say its good to have some negative feedback.
But starting to pick at people because they've become successful, and claiming that apparently, they weren't very creative... that's not only an insult to them, but an insult to the people who happen to enjoy their products. That includes yourself unless you dislike the game... in which case I'd question your purpose in being here.
Bases were not one of Cryptic's successes; I think most of us can agree with this. The question though, is are we going to make suggestions, and let our reasoning behind bases not being successful be known, or are we going to just attack the devs?
The former is helpful, the latter is not.
(And yes, I know we've 'made ourselves heard' on the issue a few times - but usually its only on prices and rent - I have yet to see much in the way of asking for say... the ability to create a personal base in addition to an SG base (Using Influence for the personal base - and the Personal base having slightly more limited options than the SG base)
Honestly if I weren't trying to get some serious writing done >.> I'd make that suggestion in the suggestion forums right now.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
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By no means do I think success devalues art. But I do think success doesn't value art, either, and it's easy to see from their attitudes that a lot of successful professionals feel validated by their income brackets.
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Oh, of course. I've seen professionals use their success to try to validate their work...but that's not Neil Gaiman.
I don't really think it's Stephen King, either. Crichton, maybe. I don't know enough to say either way. I do believe that their fans might use their commercial success in that manner, but that's not the same thing.
I also don't feel that Jack is doing this. I may disagree with his statements and decisions on how to develop the game, but I don't think he's saying, "Oh YEAH, I'm so TOTALLY GONZO RICH that I'M THE NEW PICASSO."
Yes, that was a deliberately absurd statement. I don't think your characterization is fair, though.
I'm not saying anything on the mediocrity front, though. I'm leaving that alone.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Just in case any dev's are reading this, I'll throw in my suggestions onto the "make bases more popular" thing.
<ul type="square">[*]Bases cost too much. Make everything cheaper by at least 1/2. Seriously, I have a 30 something villian with a personal base, and I'll waste away the hours building it up every week. It's fun. I like it. But everything costs SOOO much. Make it alot cheaper to build and things in it to cost less. [*] Bases need more functionality. The Teleporters are great. Expensive but great. The med unit for rezing is great. Expensive, but great. but other than that, there's very little bases DO. Yes, store items like enhancements and salvage, but Do I really NEED to store my enhancements? It's great for Hami-O's and 53 SO's, but mostly, I just sell off what I find as soon as I get it.[*]Make SG Mission Computers actually do something. Besides the CoP trial that is. I always thought that the Computer would give you access to neat missions. A virtual Level 1-50 contact if you will. Mission computers are more or less worthless, you do it once or twice, and your done. Most bases don't have room for more than one IoP so that HUGE investment is mostly done with right away because....[*] Make base raiding work! And not just for CoH to CoH raids. I want to see CoV to CoH raids. The bad guys attacking the good guys, the good guys attacking the bad guys, ect... I'm not sure if this ever happened, raiding went by so fast, but raiding would add ALOT to bases. Fix this aspect and you'll get some popularity out of them.[*]Allow team members to use your SG's base when teamed. Think of it. My team mates wiped in the mish, but they could use my personal teleporter to rez and return to the mish. That would add some value to a Base as well as make you feel kinda special for helping the team out so much.[*]Random Events. Like Base Raiding, what if you could build an item that would make a random villian group, say...the Council, or the Hellions break into your base, turning your base into a mission map? What if you could have this happen randomly? You get a flashing message on your screen that says "Hellions are breaking into your base!!!" You run to the nearest base portal, and find your base over run with Hellions, not enough to kill you off right away, it would be based on the size and cost of your base, but enough to be a mission's worth or so. That IMO would be awesome.[*]General editing capabilities. Most SG's have a select few people that can edit their base. Editing proporties for the base should be based on your personal Prestige. I earned 100k, so I should be able to add 100k's worth of stuff to my base. That could be my own room, or a worktable, or a widescreen TV, or whatever. What's been said above stands true, too many sg's have 1 or 2 people who can add stuff, and the rest bankroll. That sucks. something has to change there.[/list]
I could go on and on, and on, but the cold medicine's messing with my head. I just hope a Redname is actually reading this thread.
My initial post was mocking (hence the smiley and the reference to therapy sessions), but I'm game to argue for the sake of continuity.
Read my post again. I criticized Jack for his attitude, nothing else. If I judge by his rhetoric that he's becoming swellheaded, it's just rude of me to point it out - not illogical.
~Gabriel
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Oh, of course. I've seen professionals use their success to try to validate their work...but that's not Neil Gaiman.
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I have some inside experience on that front. I've met Neil Gaiman, and I know a few horror authors who're quasi-friends/peers of his. The man is (just in my opinion) an inexcusable jerk, and the fact that he writes whimsical fantasy doesn't redeem that sort of arrogance in my book.
I admit to margin for error in my estimation of Jack. But recall, if you will, his various statements regarding other professionals in his field, and universities that are offering classes in game design (and his contempt for them).
I don't want to get into this any further, since I intended it as a jest. I don't really think all that poorly of Jack, but some of his remarks have rubbed me the wrong way, and I used that (perhaps unwisely) as fodder for a quick joke.
~Gabriel
Gaiman's a tool, I've met him. You're righ on the money there. King's a freak, completely off his rocker, then again, I like that in my horror writers. Barker's my favorite so far, Margrette Weis is a close second.
Jack.... Jack.... Not gonna say I didn't like him, he might nerf me :-D but from what I can tell, he's too involved in his company to know EVERYTHING we want. He should either hire someone to run the company and develop full time and get back in touch with his customers. That or he should just run the business and leave the developing completely to Matt and the others who are still regularly communicating with the player base. It really is an either or in my opinion.
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What happened was players hated it. Its the most underused facet of the game. It received almost no coverage in the press. And theres nothing like it in any other MMP. Emmerts hypothesis is that people dont like contributing money to a group to express individuality. ... At its heart, these MMPs are individual game experiences in front of a computer terminal.
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What about individual apartments? That'd be personal. Or even individual player rooms in your SG base, that only YOU can decorate.
Also, if you want people to contribute to the group, don't make that contribution suck away something your character needs, like Influence.
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Bingo. Jack's comments are an example of a common syndrome I see among software developers (myself included); they confuse a lukewarm reception of a poor implementation with rejection of the underlying concept. The *concept* of customizable lairs is totally cool, but the implementation thus far has been flawed.
I have many alts and they all belong to SGs, but none of them are SG leaders, so my total experience with the base building tools is roughly zero. How can Jack expect the entire player population to be excited about the base building tools when only 5% (my guess) of the population ever gets to use them?
I also completely dislike the way that the prestige vs. inf tradeoff has been implemented. I understand that Jack didn't want prestige generation to be like inf; if it was, then lowbies wouldn't be able to get into elite SGs, since that would actually hurt the SG's ability to generate inf. But if you just have prestige generated on a flat scale regardless of level, then problem solved. But the current system with declining inf generation means that for over half my character's career (in terms of hours played), I am not contributing to my SG. A bad design choice, IMO; I don't see what benefit it brings in terms of game mechanics. Scarcity is an important concept; it's the reason we level up characters: to get MORE inf, MORE powers, MORE slots. The notion of leveling up and essentially going backwards (as inf generation in SG mode does now) is nonsensical.
And while using base teleporters is occasionally beneficial in CoV (I can see how they'd have more value in CoH), there's nothing really amazing about bases right now in terms of non-leader benefits. I think if they really do a great job with Items of Power, that might start to turn the tide, to make non-leaders really start to care about bases. I'm not talking about the TFs needed to get the IoPs (although that sounds fun) nor the PvP that's apparently required to keep them (not sure how I feel about that); no, just the fact that having SOMETHING in your base that's providing the members of the SG a direct benefit, even a minor buff, is a step in the right direction. Or, how about this one: give me the ability to teleport INTO my base from anywhere, it can be a Pocket D type long interruptible animation. That would be a significant improvement over any other type of travel and result in very enthusiastic usage by all.
I know the devs don't want to sink more time and effort into a personal lair system. But I for one would totally dig it if they just give me a small non-raidable plot, the same base-building tools and let me build a place to hang out for free. Heck, charge me inf rather than prestige for items I put in there (but please no rent, thank you). Let me put in personal storage lockers where I can put SOs, insps, and inf. (No, I'm not a fan of the storage in SG bases; one of the SGs to which I belong had their enhancement storage cleared out by a couple of folks that then quit the SG). Let me put in a trophy case that would simply display my badges! Let me put in "costume mannequins" that show all of my characters costumes. People spend big bucks on costumes, I know that'd be popular. And the trophy case and costume dummies wouldn't take a big investment in new artwork.
I think with some willingness to look at this with fresh eyes, bases could be much more exciting to players, both in an SG/combat sense and in a personal lair sense.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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Seriously though, Jack falls into a category of modern "creative professional" that I can't stand. Along with him I lump Stephen King, Neil Gaiman, Michael Crichton, and that sort of mediocre talent that thinks financial success is equivalent to artistic preeminence.
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I think you're assigning motives and attitudes here. It's not an uncommon attitude I see from people who feel that commercial success somehow devalues artistic endeavors, but it just doesn't make sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
By no means do I think success devalues art. But I do think success doesn't value art, either, and it's easy to see from their attitudes that a lot of successful professionals feel validated by their income brackets.
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Oh, of course. I've seen professionals use their success to try to validate their work...but that's not Neil Gaiman.
I don't really think it's Stephen King, either. Crichton, maybe. I don't know enough to say either way. I do believe that their fans might use their commercial success in that manner, but that's not the same thing.
I also don't feel that Jack is doing this. I may disagree with his statements and decisions on how to develop the game, but I don't think he's saying, "Oh YEAH, I'm so TOTALLY GONZO RICH that I'M THE NEW PICASSO."
Yes, that was a deliberately absurd statement. I don't think your characterization is fair, though.
I'm not saying anything on the mediocrity front, though. I'm leaving that alone.
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I got a chance to talk to Jack- (briefly) - at the conference.
1) He really does appreciate the player base. He rattled off over a dozen names of forumites, their input, their opposition- and his admiration for them and their passion. (He didn't remember me tho 
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2) Its clear he's passionate about games & comics. Remember, Statesman is based on an old RPG character of his. This game was a gamble, an opportunity- and subject to immense scrutiny. Imagine your most treasured work was your first work really in public scrutiny.
You can understand why someone could be a bit defensive about the negative... or proud at the positive feedback. It isn't conceit- it's simple happiness at being appreciated and defensiveness at being attacked.
3) My impression: Jack's like a pen-n-paper GM that has this grand vision for an epic story. The first session, everything goes great and he's basking in the glory of a well-run adventure. The next session, the players decide NOT to go into the dungeon he planned so meticulously. They start looking for their own path, and it goes against his planned story.
That frustrates any GM- I've seen many GM's crack under such stuff- they go nuts yelling "you WILL GO my way." Sometimes there are unfortunate remarks made as this friction grows. The best GM's learn to adapt, follow the players' decisions, and create something entirely new.
Jack- Cryptic as a whole- made it to that level.
That's what the "new mantra" of "give the players what they want" really means: I've managed to let go of "my vision" and am now comfortable making it "our vision."
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Gaiman's a tool, I've met him. You're righ on the money there. King's a freak, completely off his rocker, then again, I like that in my horror writers. Barker's my favorite so far, Margrette Weis is a close second.
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Weird, and completely unlike my experiences meeting Neil Gaiman. He was fairly polite and personable. Also, witty.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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That's what the "new mantra" of "give the players what they want" really means: I've managed to let go of "my vision" and am now comfortable making it "our vision."
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Honestly, though, has there been much evidence of a concrete philosophical shift apparent in the game's development or in game changes? Perhaps it's the political skeptic in me, but I haven't seen that much of a shift. I have seen some spin and hype surrounding a shift, but I haven't really seen a lot of changes to reflect the shift. Maybe there'll be more evidence with after I8's out of the can.
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My initial post was mocking (hence the smiley and the reference to therapy sessions), but I'm game to argue for the sake of continuity.
Read my post again. I criticized Jack for his attitude, nothing else. If I judge by his rhetoric that he's becoming swellheaded, it's just rude of me to point it out - not illogical.
~Gabriel
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I do believe it was illogical though; you can believe what you like - but I really get annoyed with people making assumptions for which they really don't have any backup other than the way they read someone's comments. Note I said "the way they read them" not what they're really saying.
That said, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. Understand that sometimes I grow immenselly frustrated with the forums because rather than focus on useful criticism, a huge quantity of time has been spent personally disparaging developers, their skill at developing, and generally demeaning everything they've done.
These same people often are, for some insane reason, still playing the game - but they continue to insult, jab, and defame at every opportunity. Needless to say, I've gotten just a wee bit aggravated over it; because constructive ciriticism can make for a better game, while negative criticism, at best, is not helpful.
At worst, it makes developer communication... well frankly harder. Even if they have immensely thick skins and can just shrug it off, thats still so much more useless text to wade through while looking for important feedback.
"Bases cost too much" - Good!
"<ten page rant on why Statesman and Positron suck> Oh, and Bases cost too much." - Not good!
That merely being an example, and hyperbole - but I see the latter on multiple issues. Especially when people bring up ED, I5, PVP, bases, etc...
(And no - I'm not inviting a discussion of those things here >.< I don't care who's reading this post - no; I'm not doing it.)
I think people have 3 major failings when it comes to critiquing the game.
A) Assuming Cryptic owes them more than it does. (Cryptic, by terms of service, only owes you access to the servers for your 15 bucks a month. Everything else was never guaranteed - it was merely something decided on as a way to entice customers. Yes, I would quit without that stuff - but that doesn't mean they *owe* it - it merely means its a good way to retain customers.)
B) Deciding a passionate angry, demeaning rant is somehow more useful than a clear and concise point.
C) A complete failure to reckognize that, just maybe, its possible, that the individual making a given post does not happen to be the arbiter of all that is true and right in the world of CoX. No matter how smart we like to *think* we are - we are not going to be always correct.
That doesn't mean "Don't speak your mind" - it means "Accept that sometimes changes will go in, and you may absolutely hate them - but after a while, reckognize they went in for a reason and all you are doing is spinning your wheels." - ED is my big case in point for this bit. Regardless of opinion on it; in, here, won't be leaving - why must we obsess over it? Move on, find another issue.
I suppose this last bit could be another point too... people take things too personally. It seems a fair number of forumgoers have the strange belief that because a certain AT, powerset, mission, whatever - because something was changed in a manner they dislike its a personal insult. I mean some of the people on this forum have reacted with more outrage than people dealing with politics and life and death decisions.
Sorry for the long ramble here - but intended or not; the way you presented it didn't seem 'joke-like', but rather more personal criticism that is unnecessary and unhelpful. Again, I appologize for misreading you - the above is my reason why I misinterpretted your statement.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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Honestly, though, has there been much evidence of a concrete philosophical shift apparent in the game's development or in game changes? Perhaps it's the political skeptic in me, but I haven't seen that much of a shift. I have seen some spin and hype surrounding a shift, but I haven't really seen a lot of changes to reflect the shift. Maybe there'll be more evidence with after I8's out of the can.
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I figure that it's something that's going to take a bit of time before we see any significant changes. I'm not sure when the philosophical shift was decided at Cryptic (I think it was announced only recently?), but if they've already planned out up to, say, I11, then that philosophical shift may take a long time to materialize.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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A) Assuming Cryptic owes them more than it does. (Cryptic, by terms of service, only owes you access to the servers for your 15 bucks a month. Everything else was never guaranteed - it was merely something decided on as a way to entice customers. Yes, I would quit without that stuff - but that doesn't mean they *owe* it - it merely means its a good way to retain customers.)
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A very minor comment: I think it's NCSoft who takes our money for access to the servers. Cryptic takes our money (however indirectly) for access to their content. And it's kind of hazy on exactly what this "content" is, which I think is the reason for a lot of the ranting on the forums.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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A) Assuming Cryptic owes them more than it does. (Cryptic, by terms of service, only owes you access to the servers for your 15 bucks a month. Everything else was never guaranteed - it was merely something decided on as a way to entice customers. Yes, I would quit without that stuff - but that doesn't mean they *owe* it - it merely means its a good way to retain customers.)
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A very minor comment: I think it's NCSoft who takes our money for access to the servers. Cryptic takes our money (however indirectly) for access to their content. And it's kind of hazy on exactly what this "content" is, which I think is the reason for a lot of the ranting on the forums.
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I won't go into a long spiel about this again, but our $15/mo pays for more than server access. Who says that? Just the players? Nope, NCSoft says that if you check their Knowledge Base. And common sense. Content updates don't grow on trees that never need watering - somebody gets paid to make them.
People can inappropriately feel over-entitled to more content, but it's inherently impossible for them not to feel entitled to periodic content updates. Kellis is correct in that players are not guaranteed (and are sometimes confused by) specific content updates and fixes or specific timing of their release, but players have been promised some sort of content and fixes as part of the service and within a reasonable timeframe. To assert otherwise is cheerleading rationalizations that do nothing to encourage the maintenance or improvement of service.
I'm all for more realistic expectations (which is why the company's hype methodology boggles the mind), but lowering the bar to below sea level is just crazy talk.
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Well, the thing is, going by the forums, it wasn't exactly a misunderstanding. Or did I just hallucinate all those people saying they shouldn't have to give up influence for prestige, or complaining about being prestige batteries for insensitive SGs?
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Well, it's more a point of historicism.
We know what we've been saying since I6; and we have explicit indications that the Devs have been paying attention to those points. Otherwise, States and Posi wouldn't be so quite so willing to admit the unfortunate miscalculations in their implementation of Bases.
The natural response is why haven't they been getting fixed already? To which I'd argue that there have been clear priorities for content: L40+ Villainside content in I7, and now Scanner/Safeguards for Heroside in I8.
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I would say they have been working on it. They did just give us a few new rooms/items to cut down the cost and allow us to power our bases faster, after all. We also know they've been working on getting IoPs in, as evidenced by the Cathedral of Pain being on and off Test. Of course, it's frustrating that it's taken them a year, and they haven't even gotten that part in. Not sure what's worse, the fact that base raiding still isn't in and won't be anytime in the foreseeable future (big surprise bases aren't popular when their main feature never made it in the game, no?) or that they haven't tried to go a different way with things. I suppose the good thing, at least, is that they haven't completely abandoned bases like they have with other unpopular aspects of the game (eg arenas.)
I have to hand it to Statesman for at least recognizing and admitting that the system isn't working (although I wouldn't exactly agree with where the blame is being placed - ie us and the press.) Now hopefully Positron and he will read some of these threads and try to improve other aspects of the bases.
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Gaiman's a tool, I've met him. You're righ on the money there. King's a freak, completely off his rocker, then again, I like that in my horror writers. Barker's my favorite so far, Margrette Weis is a close second.
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Weird, and completely unlike my experiences meeting Neil Gaiman. He was fairly polite and personable. Also, witty.
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Fact: writers/celebrities/etc. are real human beings. As such, they can have bad days, good days, off days, be taken the wrong way or just come across not how they want.
In the same day, I can say the same comment with the same tone to two different people. One will think I'm a goofy joker.
The other will think I'm an insufferable [censored].
Again, our individual experiences with people do not represent the entirety of all experience.
Edit: And, often times, even the nicest person will be called a jerk by quasi peers. You know why? Gaiman is making lots of money. These quasi peers may not be. Jealousy can and does color comments.
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"We spent more time developing [bases] than any other feature in City of Heroes or City of Villains," [Emmert]says. Although bases are built by a team, Emmert and his team viewed them as being incredibly, incredibly individual because each piece of the base is designed and added by individuals.
What happened was players hated it. "Its the most underused facet of the game. It received almost no coverage in the press. And theres nothing like it in any other MMP." Emmerts hypothesis is that people dont like contributing money to a group to express individuality.
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Once again Jack (I know more about how you should be allowed to have fun than you do) Emmit shows his utter cluelessness. Those of us on these boards have talked about whats wrong with bases ever since they were part of CoV Beta, and yet Poppa Jack just doesnt listen to what were saying.
When bases were introduced most of us loved them. The features were anticipated with great excitement. We saw huge potential for more fun. But it was the implementation of the bases that turned most people off.
That, and the bugs.
Some very, very basic errors in concept were made. For example, why do we have to pay for a plot? And, given that we must pay for a plot, why are they so freaking EXPENSIVE?? There would be a lot more individuality and creativity in base design if we had the freedom to spread the rooms out in interesting ways. But the draconian plot costs mean that each and every 1x1 square is very precious whether or not it has a room parked on it. Everything must be squeezed in as tightly as possible to avoid wasting limited prestige. And so we get tiny little grids of rooms. A far, far better method would have been to create one very large, free plot for all bases. Then you just pay for the rooms you place. If they wanted to charge a greater amount for bases having a second power generating room, then just write the code so that the second power room costs 4x more (or whatever) than the first power room did. The way base plots are designed just utterly baffles me! I simply cannot conceive how or why anyone would have chosen to create the current set-up!
Of course, there are also the bugs.
As far as designing by individuals is concerned, my SG tried that. For a few months, at first, we allowed anyone in the SG to edit the base. It actually worked out quite well. Most members didnt really contribute, but the few who did got a really cool creative vibe going on. Everything was in flux all the time. Competing design philosophies were tried out and discarded. If someone deleted something I built that I really liked, I would just put it back. If I deleted something that someone else made and they put it back, it told me that it was one of their favorite concepts and I should try to accommodate it. So I might move it around, put it in another room, or whatever. Those of us who were involved in this process really formed a bond of friendship that had not existed before. But then a SG member invited an old friend into the SG. And for some bizarre reason that friend deleted the entire base. And then quit the SG. And then sold his account on eBay. So now I am the Official Base Architect and our creative dynamic is lost.
And dont get me started on the bugs.
Base rent is a much hated part of the system. I can even sort of see the reasoning behind it. However, I just dont think the reason for rent is worth the unintended consequence of turning so many players off to the whole concept of SG bases. The idea of earning prestige so. very. slowly. (WOOT! I just killed an AV! Now I can buy those two trash cans and a rack of test tubes!) and then watching it get taken away is just terribly de-motivating for so many players. You have to keep running just to stand still. And the more you earn, the faster you have to run just to stand still. Emmits hypothesis that we dont like contributing money to the group is completely wrong. What we dont like is contributing the money only to watch it get snatched away from the group for no good reason! To me this is such a complete no-brainer. Eliminating base rent would be greeted with nearly UNIVERSAL joy from the players. So why not just do it? It certainly wouldnt be game-breaking (like returning regen scrappers to i4 functionality). So why not just do it? Why not? Why, why, why not??
Then we have the issue of bugs.
Actually, Im still waiting for bases to be FINISHED Raids and IoP Trials were promised right from the start. So the Cathedral of Pain trial suddenly went live for a couple of days two weeks ago, and then it vanished. Exactly 8 members of my SG did the trial but the rest of us didnt have the chance to organize another go at it before it was gone again. We tried a few instanced raids against a coalition base and they tried a few with us. But we just. could. not. get. them. to. work!!! And so weve all pretty much decided that we arent going to try anymore until base raid functionality is finished. It shouldnt be long now. Bases have been out for a year at this point!
Which of course leads into a discussion of the bugs.
Maybe if the devs fixed the [censored] BUGS we would be more inclined to use the bases?
Naaah
. it must simply be that we hate to cooperate with one another for the common good of the SG. THAT must be it.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
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Well, the thing is, going by the forums, it wasn't exactly a misunderstanding. Or did I just hallucinate all those people saying they shouldn't have to give up influence for prestige, or complaining about being prestige batteries for insensitive SGs?
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Well, it's more a point of historicism.
We know what we've been saying since I6; and we have explicit indications that the Devs have been paying attention to those points. Otherwise, States and Posi wouldn't be so quite so willing to admit the unfortunate miscalculations in their implementation of Bases.
The natural response is why haven't they been getting fixed already? To which I'd argue that there have been clear priorities for content: L40+ Villainside content in I7, and now Scanner/Safeguards for Heroside in I8.