I see. I really wanted to get Disrupt earlier but it's so hard to squeeze everything in earlier. 
I think you don't need to take hasten with a TA/A, but I understand that it's neccessary to get SS...and I'm not, by any means, an expert but I did recently roll a TA/A and am at lvl 13, and so far I don't need hasten at all. PvE-wise, everything comes up at the right times and as frequently as I need it with one recharge reduction* slotted in each "longer" recharge power (poison gas, glue, etc.). Of course, I don't plan to PvP much with this build. After applying debuffs, I alternate between snap and aimed shot with no problem...by the time one finises, the other is ready. And I can usually apply a second layer of debufs depending on the size/level of the mob. And I love the fact my end bar has never dipped below 3/4 full, even with sprint on during a fight (I know it will change when I get EMP, etc.)!
Oh, and btw, flash arrow is awesome...I haven't had a problem with aggro as long as I don't attack the mob I targeted to use flash arrow (or their LT/Boss)...useful for clearing out minions around an LT so I can concentrate my fire later. And usually, if I do aggro the group (not often), their accuracy is so poor from the effects that I get hit 1/10 times, and can finish off most of them before needing to pop a green, and all if I pop a purple/orange. On teams, FA is a godsend: launch it as the tank/scrapper engages (or even before!) and watch the reduced accuracy hilarity (sp?) as they are manhandled without successfully landing a shot on you or the melee-er...combined with a follow up of GA and either PGA or AA (alternating mob groups), mobs go down with ease and the melee fighters will love you, even if they don't realize you are the reason they aren't being hit by +2 LTs (since FA is an auto-hit in PvE, make sure to slot it with a few to-hit debuffs...it doesn't need a recharge b/c it comes back even before the effects wear off..and I'm pretty sure they don't stack anyways).
This is probably the most fun 12 levels I have had playing an AT, and can solo or team with ease. I can't wait til I get some more "heavy hitters" (at least for a defender, that is). Thanks for the guide!
* Edit: Yes, even Training Enhancements!...Here is my build as I planned it (and am sticking to it at level 12..flight is for concept (wings later) and I took swift for the flight speed enh, as well as health and end since they are both useful as well).
As always, the ancillary pools aren't set in stone, but I like PBU for the secondary effects, and TF for the raw damage output...I probably don't need conserve power...
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Gyrafalcon
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Trick Arrow
Secondary: Archery
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Flash Arrow==> TH_DeBuf(1)TH_DeBuf(5)TH_DeBuf(37)
01) --> Snap Shot==> Acc(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(36)Dmg(46)
02) --> Aimed Shot==> Acc(2)Dmg(3)Dmg(9)Dmg(33)
04) --> Glue Arrow==> Rechg(4)Slow(5)Slow(40)
06) --> Hover==> Fly(6)Fly(7)Fly(7)
08) --> Poison Gas Arrow==> Slow(8)Slow(9)
10) --> Blazing Arrow==> Acc(10)Dmg(11)Dmg(11)Dmg(25)
12) --> Acid Arrow==> Acc(12)DefDeBuf(13)DefDeBuf(13)DmgRes(46)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)Fly(15)Fly(15)
16) --> Swift==> Fly(16)Fly(17)Fly(17)
18) --> Disruption Arrow==> DmgRes(18)DmgRes(19)DmgRes(19)Rechg(40)Rechg(48)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)Heal(21)Heal(21)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --> Stealth==> DefBuf(24)DefBuf(25)DefBuf(46)
26) --> Oil Slick Arrow==> Rechg(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(27)
28) --> Ranged Shot==> Acc(28)IntRdx(29)Rechg(29)Dmg(34)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)
30) --> Fistful of Arrows==> Acc(30)Range(31)Range(31)Dmg(31)Dmg(34)Dmg(37)
32) --> EMP Arrow==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Hold(33)Hold(34)
35) --> Stunning Shot==> Acc(35)Acc(36)DisDur(36)DisDur(37)
38) --> Rain of Arrows==> Acc(38)Rechg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)
41) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(43)TH_Buf(43)TH_Buf(43)TH_Buf(45)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44)Rechg(45)Rechg(45)
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(50)
49) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(49)DmgRes(50)DmgRes(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Dmg(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------
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<QR>
Question: An Archery/Dev blaster using Targeting Drone and Tactics or a TA/A defender using Tactics...is it possible to skip Accuracy enhancers in total? I'd almost think so, since ToHit Buffs have so much more power than Accuracy, but I'd like an expert's opinion. On a Defender, Tactics is a +10% ToHit buff at base, unless I'm mistaken; slotted, that's about a 16-18%THB - enough to almost totally counteract most DEF buffs on its own. Combine with careful use of Aim for hard targets(DRONES), and I think you could end up ignoring ACC enhancers.
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Answer: Only if you plan on missing Defense based builds like SR/ICE/NRG/NINJITSU/FORCEFIELDS/ETC. but to be honest who knows, take ur toon on test and respec it to try it out. if you like the outcome then copy that build to live, but i would always have the acc.
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...Let me try this a different way...
For a character that will NEVER enter a PvP zone or Arena match under any circumstances, can ACC be skipped with Tactics and Targeting Drone, and Aim to cover enemies with obscene Defense(again, DRONES)? Also, since I'm planning to avoid the ever-popular "respec dance", building up to that level, copying, respecing, etc. are not part of the plan; I'm going to build up, not PL and then make the character.
For a Blaster? Yes. For only PvE, ACC enhancements can be skipped with TD, Tactics, and Aim. 3 slotted TD and Tactics will be roughly equal to 2 ACC enhancements in every attack. TD and Tactics 3 slotted will give you +33-1/2% tohit bonus which makes Archery hit +3s at about 92.5% vs. 2 ACCs giving about 92% . Aim can easily take care of anything else you can't hit.
One drawback to running only Tactics and TD is if you get detoggled then your tohit buffs will be turned off. Probably not a deal breaker but can be annoying.
Very nice guide. I have decided to roll up an Ill/TA Controller, and I was looking at your nicely done guide for information on the TA side. I thought the TA would make up for the lack of control on the Illusion side.
What do I need to be able to light the Oil Slick Arrow when I get it? I suspect nothing in Illusion will do it. I vaguely remember that certain origins have the inherent power that will work. Which ones? (I presume not Natural, since the inherent is throwing knives.)
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I believe Tech's Taser and Magic's Apprentice Charm are your choices. I'm not fully sure about the Apprentice Charm, since I've never tested it -- can anyone confirm?
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
Luminara, great guide! Thank you so much. I have a build question. Does hasten help at all in a TA/A build? Here is a example of my current build without slotting. Any suggestions? I would love to get Invisibility in here and Aimed Shot as well. I am thinking of respecing out of hasten and maybe Ice Arrow. I could just role another TA/A with travel powers CJ/SJ ..... can you tell I love this set!
PS I am still trying to work out a modern day Kunoichi concept.
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Sugar Daze
Level: 22
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Trick Arrow
Secondary: Archery
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Entangling Arrow==> Empty(1)
01) --> Snap Shot==> Empty(1)
02) --> Glue Arrow==> Empty(2)Empty(3)
04) --> Flash Arrow==> Empty(4) Empty(5)
06) --> Ice Arrow==> Empty(6)
08) --> Hasten==> Empty(8)
10) --> Flaming Arrow==> Empty(10)
12) --> Hover==> Empty(12)
14) --> Fly==> Empty(14)
16) --> Poison Gas Arrow==> Empty(16)
18) --> Acid Arrow==> Empty(18)
20) --> Fistful of Arrows==> Empty(20)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Official Member of the CoH Alt-a-holics Club!
It can not be possible to have too many Alts! It just can't be!
I did mine with no travel either. Mostly because of concept, being a Natural. With many toons, and now even more so with the temp travel powers, I use my Natural travel/fitness combo build. Basically its a sprint and hurdle with 2 slots each, swift, single slot and CJ later with a single. Gets me around fine, defenitely not for everyone.
Actual Location: Inside the system itself.
"When the most exciting thing about Mace is AceMace's avatar, then it's time to get realistic."
Shield Guide
The only thing anyone in this game is "supposed to be doing" is having fun. Everything else is negotiable. -Jet Boy
But do I need Stamina?
Honestly people, read the friggin' guide alllll the way through, past the part where it's mentioned that you don't have to get stamina. Careless, party of....half the people on this thread with near identical builds, to boot.
Very, very, very, very good guide. Excellent descriptions, A++ on hard numbers for the nerds in the building *cough*, and over all very...sharp!
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I believe Tech's Taser and Magic's Apprentice Charm are your choices. I'm not fully sure about the Apprentice Charm, since I've never tested it -- can anyone confirm?
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Yes. Any energy or fire damage will do it.
This should really be included in the Defender forum's stickied guides & faqs post. By far the best TA/A guide I've seen. Thanks for the good work Lumi.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Nice work.
Me and my wife have a TA/A & A/nrg duo. The basic combo of Flash + Glue Arrow is our bread and butter. We are both 20 now (took some time off) and went through the whole Hollows arc on Rugged.
If/when you get Explosive Arrow is important because you can time this to knock all those Trolls back into the debuff zones of the defender (or power thrust).
We have never had a problem with Flash Arrow drawing agro. In fact we TRY to have the def open with FistFull (flash + glue + fistfull + x2 assault + x2 tactics) so that she takes the alpha. As the blaster when he unloads will pull agro from her (the defender)
I would like to ammend my Flash comment. The TA\A and A\nrgy duo is now 26. We recently experienced the Flash Arrow + Defender death to some freak show.
Flash is still good if you want to do pull's, especially a snipe.
However... I am thinking that entagle will be the better optioin for most.
Best Guide Ever.
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Luminara, great guide! Thank you so much. I have a build question. Does hasten help at all in a TA/A build?
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It is indeed one of the better TA & A guides around, and so amusingly worded in places.
I'd like to relate my experience with Hasten, though I'm certainly not nearly as experienced as most of the other folks 'round here.
I have Hasten on my TA/A, love it, and use it often. While I can usually chain-hold anything up to a yellow con with Ice Arrow, having Hasten up lets me get a larger overlap of having two enemies iced down when needed. I can pump out more damage arrows between debuffs, and keep the shorter-recharge debuffs up almost continuously while Hasten's in effect. Being able to do those two things has saved me from trips to the Hospital quite a few times when I've found myself in over my head. Add to that the ability to Aid Other or Aid Self more often, and it's even more of a lifesaver.
The downside, of course, is that firing arrows madly about like this can chew up Endurance in a hurry, even with the relatively low cost of many TA/A powers. Usually, though, I only run out of Endurance when soloing, and even then, not often. Nothing a few blues can't help. 
(In case you're wondering, I don't have Superspeed. I respec'd out of it and got Combat Jumping/Super Jump instead, after getting tired of faceplanting into unscaleable walls at 80 MPH and having to detour -- or wait on Jump Pack to recharge -- most everywhere I went. :P )
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Tyndall - TA/A Defender - Protector
Excellent guide...as has been said many times before...
I have a TA/A Defender who just made it to level 10 but it has been slow going and the Hospital and I have become very well acquainted (Which when you are doing the Hollows missions is quite a hike...)
My build (so far) is not that different than that of Dancing Hawk...the only real differences are Flash Arrow and Combat Leaping...
My issue is that I just don't seem to be avoiding damage very much. Give me a mob of melee fighters, and I am usually able to clean them up. But any real ranged mobs (Gunners) just take me out before I can do much about taking out the group. I am very successful when I slot the right inspirations (Helath and Luck mainly) but running back to a contact after every large encounter is pretty tiresome.
Now I have read things before that have basically said that levels 8-15 are just hard with this type of build. And that The Hollows would be a nightmare...but just wondering if there is any advice to help make it easier.
My general combat sequence is this:
Flash Arrow; Pull someone if I can; Take out the pulled and repeat till I aggro the group.
Then Glue Arrow; Flash Arrow if it has worn off; and then just start Snap Shot/Aimed Shot/Entangling Arrow on the gunners (I know that the Entangling arrow doesn't do much, but it fills the rotation) then branch out to the melee fighters. But my problem is that none of these attacks do a ton of damage, and by the time I have taken out the gunner, the melee guys have fought through the glue and are on me. Or my "toe to toe" fight with the gunner has him doing more damage to me, than I am to him.
Thoughts? Tactics? Advice?
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Excellent guide...as has been said many times before...
I have a TA/A Defender who just made it to level 10 but it has been slow going and the Hospital and I have become very well acquainted (Which when you are doing the Hollows missions is quite a hike...)
My build (so far) is not that different than that of Dancing Hawk...the only real differences are Flash Arrow and Combat Leaping...
My issue is that I just don't seem to be avoiding damage very much. Give me a mob of melee fighters, and I am usually able to clean them up. But any real ranged mobs (Gunners) just take me out before I can do much about taking out the group. I am very successful when I slot the right inspirations (Helath and Luck mainly) but running back to a contact after every large encounter is pretty tiresome.
Now I have read things before that have basically said that levels 8-15 are just hard with this type of build. And that The Hollows would be a nightmare...but just wondering if there is any advice to help make it easier.
My general combat sequence is this:
Flash Arrow; Pull someone if I can; Take out the pulled and repeat till I aggro the group.
Then Glue Arrow; Flash Arrow if it has worn off; and then just start Snap Shot/Aimed Shot/Entangling Arrow on the gunners (I know that the Entangling arrow doesn't do much, but it fills the rotation) then branch out to the melee fighters. But my problem is that none of these attacks do a ton of damage, and by the time I have taken out the gunner, the melee guys have fought through the glue and are on me. Or my "toe to toe" fight with the gunner has him doing more damage to me, than I am to him.
Thoughts? Tactics? Advice?
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You just hit 10th level, but I don't see you mention Blazing Arrow anywhere. This will your main damage-dealing attack for a long time, and if you didn't take it at 10th level, well, if you have a respec available, use it. Slot it up with damage and recharge as quickly as you can. When I gout Blazing Arrow, Whitebow definitely turned a corner.
As for gunners/other ranged attackers: keep them flashed, and put them in the Glue Arrow as much as possible, AND entangle them. Glue and Entangle slow down their attack rate.
Slot immobilization duration on entangling arrow, at least 2 slots.
Alternatively, entangle a gunner or two, then move out of their range. Let the melee types run toward you...entangle one or two if possible. Glue the rest as they get near. If you see the gunners get free of Entangling before you finish with the melee types, hit them with entangle again, move back out of range, etc.
Poison Gas Arrow also helps. Lay down Glue then PGA - at least a few (usually more than a few) mobs will start choking and not attack. Slot PGA with Sleep duration enhancements, at least 2. DO NOT attack the mobs that are choking/sleeping (i.e., no Fistful of Arrows that can hit the sleepers).
Playing a TA/A solo is a difficult dance, but it is also the most fun I have had so far in this game. Stick with it...once you hit level 22 and get SO enhancements... 
I'm toying around with making a TA/A Natural Defender with the premise that he'd be Captain Teamleader, make teams, give orders, and generally lead. Of course, he'll get the Leadership ancillary set.
I'm also thinking of making him on Virtue and RP'ing him to a moderate degree. Since I don't have much leadership skillz, I think that I might need to lean on the suspension of disbelief that RP can give, until I become skilled in leading a team.
RP issues aside, I was wondering if you would have any suggestions about how to build him so that he can be believable as a team leader. I think I will start another thread on Virtue focusing on the RP aspect.
I actually like flash arrow more than entangling, I like entangling but i think flash arrow has its uses in keeping a nearby group where they are at the times when normally you could be facing more than one. Grant invis PVP fine, but for PVE pain in the butt to have to do in a heartbeat or keep worrying about, or put on everybody, I know alot of defenders take it and shy or short of cheating TFs etc I dont know why as they dont PVP. I dont like the fact I cant range slot Flash Arrow as 80ft is not always enough, there has been times when I needed to stay back but still flash the next group, but I do like how it can be used to nearer the floor enemies accuracy even further with the defense sets in the team or anyone elses tohit debuffs. I basically see the tohit being deducted and the defence of someone being deducted from a tohit calculation. 1% -tohit or def is like 2% res. Tanks find weave worth grabbing unless they are fire and this is like weave only it does more than one person at a time really cheaply. The tohit debuff is low due to the stacking effects with other powers of other people but that just tells me it can have some positive effects.
Ice arrow is complete effect mitigation on most enemies but I normally find that an unseen sapper etc will be caught by me with it at the exact same time as the controller but I dont always do malta arcs and I dont always team with controllers.
In pvp the rating you give acid arrow is fine, but in pve it wouldnt be the first arrow leaving my bow. Accuracy isnt normally a problem for most people and that has to be pretty much obvious, in PVP many builds love to take out SRs as its an easy win, res is better than def in pvp, so for area of effects sake and the fact people wont miss anyway I like disruption. For pvp/soloing and small teams/large inaccurate ones love the acid arrow. I run tactics so its not bad a level of tohit people are getting anyway.
I would want to stack Disruption with Acid on anything, I do believe that +survivability comes from -fight duration and as much as AVs resist debuffs which I dont think its as strong as in i7, every little helps and also on spread groups this works out fine anyway, disruption overall and acid on the boss, Id rather increase team damage by alot in a space of 2.67secs than add my pittance of defender secondary anyway.
I think i measured oil slick once as roughly 4-5 times the base damage of blazing arrow (depending on what you hit) and on 16 foes, thats quite alot of damage to group being atleast 16*4*blazing arrow, so with flash arrow hitting upto 16 I see damage sustainability to team increased by a fair bit. Oil slick is the single most important arrow in most teams, must be, as its what people wait for and what players really want to see. On fast cohesive teams i might just lay it and light it.
In the thickness of groups etc sometimes it can be hard to target so I use a macro $$targetname oil slick, it is a nice target point for more debuffs before igniting.
I can see the point in taking stamina if your into using your secondaries alot and dont slot end reds in the attacks for as much high burstness and accuracy as you can get but health is weak in comparison to aid self really.
Snipes, I dont like mid fight, i dislike standstill time really but if you slot them for end then your allowing for some end recovery because over the duration stamina and base end put the cost of the power pretty much back. Its almost the same as slotting aim for end really if you only ever use it to pull and pulling flash arrowed mobs can be beneficial so I am told as long as the foe doesnt pass a mate or is a boss. With other attacks of the secondary, sure the end cost is low, but you do half the damage per end than blasters at base and the action times are low so for a stamina less build, its snap shot, aim and snipe that would be missing an end slot.
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If you're playing a Trick Arrow/Archery defender, you have the best set synergy available, and Archery has shaped up to be a reasonably respectable blast set even for defenders. You'll never be subject to bow redraw as long as you don't use any pool powers, and that alone is worth naming Archery as the best set to pair with TA. The changes wrought in I7 have only served to improve the cohesion of these two sets.
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This is how I understand redraws and I will quote Back Alley Brawler:
The total attack time (ie, time before you can use another attack) for weapon powers is always the same regardless of whether the weapon is already drawn or not. This really isn't any different than say a punch or blast, which also always have the same attack times. The only difference for weapons is the actual attack animation finishes playing sooner if you already have the weapon drawn.
TA/Psi is good synergy.
Well anyway your build isnt hastened and thats less effects over time, which is not all that great for teams that like good reliability and more chance of aid in an emergency but concept wins period and any problems are team problems and you have to adapt to what you got. Its probably cos I think this "Defender secondary damage sucks, only if you hit multiples at a time does it do greatly" and with fast fight durations due to so much debuffs overtime I am lucky to get a worthwhile Rain of Arrows off, but still Id much rather increase the Damage/Survivability of others, I made a TA for the TA half.
Med pool and leaderships maybe just until people fully understand how to team with a TA or the odd moment, but I fail to see why people say "get a healer" just after you have entered the mission and found out what you are.
All in all I like the guide, its one of the best guides I have seen written and whilst I dont agree on everything thats all subjective.
I don't understand why Snap Shot gets a bad wrap. It doesn't do great amounts of damage but it is also very quick. Aimed Shot does 50% more damage but has a 67% higher casting time meaning that it does inferior DPS. Aimed Shot is more endurance-efficient but, depending on your other powerset, that likely doesn't matter.
I also find Snap Shot to be more convenient for fitting into an attack chain because it takes less time and is almost always up. Initially I slotted up Aimed Shot but after looking at the numbers and given that I *have* to take Snap Shot, I think I'm going to respec out of it or at the very least, slot Snap Shot first.
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I don't understand why Snap Shot gets a bad wrap.
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Time.
With Snap, Aimed, Blazing and Fistful all slotted with 3 Damage SOs, and running Assault, it takes 10 seconds to defeat a +0 minion using Snap/Aimed/Snap/Blazing/Snap/Aimed/Snap, whereas it only takes 8 seconds to defeat the same minion using Aimed/Blazing/Aimed/Fistful.
The higher the con, the longer you're spending per mob. Every increase in rank at least doubles the time spent over the last rank, as well.
If you're lucky, the +0 minion won't get a regen tick while you're whittling away its HP, and you could shave off one use of Snap Shot, saving 1 second, but Aimed/Blazing/Aimed/Fistful still comes out ahead in time spent.
Additionally, in any situation where you can conceivably hit two or more mobs at once, Aimed/Blazing/Aimed/Fistful puts the longer chain with Snap Shot to bed. Given that spawns are almost always more than a single mob, it's not a stretch to say that the chain using Fistful instead of Snap is always going to put out more damage and higher total DPS.
As soon as you start to factor in Lethal resistance, Snap Shot's contribution drops so sharply that it's disturbing. If you've never experienced the sheer insanity of plinking away at a Crey * Tank using a Snap Shot chain, try it. Clear your schedule, though, because you'll be at it for a good while.
What it comes down to is the difference between sustained DPS and burst damage and how the two function in actual combat. Using Snap Shot forcibly changes all of your fights into sustained DPS fights, and sustained DPS is really wasted on minions and most lieutenants, those are "burst kills". Using Aimed/Blazing/Aimed/Fistful blends burst damage and sustained DPS appropriately and keeps fights as short as possible for a */Archery.
The same holds true for blasters. I'll even go so far as to say that it's even more true for blasters, because the survival tools of defenders aren't applicable. Burst damage is critical, sustained DPS is only important if a fight is expected to last longer than a few seconds. A blaster's primary goal is, or should be, to finish that fight as quickly as possible. Snap Shot doesn't achieve that goal, it doesn't even live on the same street with that goal.
For either AT, extending the length of a fight is counter-productive. As a defender, delaying the outcome of a fight by using one sub-optimal tool means further extending the fight by being forced to make more use of all of your other tools. As a blaster, extending the duration of a fight lowers your survivability overall.
That's why I don't like Snap Shot. And why I continue to recommend that it be skipped when possible and not slotted when it's not possible to skip it. Sustained DPS is great for long fights, but sacrificing burst damage for sustained DPS means all fights are longer, and the truth is, it's just not necessary with Archery. Aimed, Blazing and Fistful make a perfect sustained DPS chain that doesn't force the player to sacrifice burst damage output.
Well Reasoned, Lumi. My 'final' build (when I am rich, old, and have 'thu arthuritis') has snap shot slotted (4 slots) for the +2.25 HP and in order to have the Hold proc handy... what do you think of this?
I set it up so that all my attacks have a space for the hold proc, but is this utterly silly? I know they're ridiculously expensive, and maybe according to your logic above, maybe I should be shooting for more overall damage...
(BTW, the archer I refer to is already 50, I was just thinking about how cool it might be to have 15% hold chance on every attack as an archer - mini-mini controller. )
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Well Reasoned, Lumi. My 'final' build (when I am rich, old, and have 'thu arthuritis') has snap shot slotted (4 slots) for the +2.25 HP and in order to have the Hold proc handy... what do you think of this?
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I'm actually planning something similar, but I'm using it for the damage and regen set bonuses on my blasters. 4/6 Devastation. I've got a planned Archery/Devices build that finishes up with 30% +damage, with Assault running, thanks to set bonuses. That's a -1 Damage SO on every single attack, pretty darn good!
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I set it up so that all my attacks have a space for the hold proc, but is this utterly silly?
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I've been trying out different Archery build scenarios for the last few weeks. High defense, high regen, high resistance, high damage... the more I play with the different options, the more I realize that the first question I have to ask myself is, "How much am I really going to benefit from this?"
The hold from the IO is mag 2, meaning it won't affect lieutenants or higher unless it's stacked with something else. So the first questions about that, to me, would be, "Do I really need to worry about holding minions?" and, "Is there a point to holding them if I'm capable of defeating them quickly?"
The hold proc can't be placed in the AoEs or cone, so that further limits their functionality. If you're focused on a single mob, you're capable of defeating it before any status effect would be useful, or you've already used a status effect to render it harmless. What I'm getting at is that it's not the mob you're attacking that you need to worry about, typically, it's all of the other mobs, and the hold IO just doesn't affect those other mobs.
So that would mean changing playstyle from "kill fast" to "spam single-target attacks on everything in sight, but don't kill anything". Given that it's a chance for a status effect, not a full-blown status effect, that means you're increasing your risk and potential for defeat by a significant factor. Solo, you're allowing mobs to survive much longer than they normally would, on the basis of hoping that they'll be held. In a team, you're pulling additional aggro that you normally wouldn't have and cutting deeply into your damage output, that damage output being why you're on the team in the first place.
So, are you going to benefit from having a 15% chance to hold a mob that you're already likely to be capable of defeating? Or, does it make sense to change your entire approach to being an Archery blaster based on a chance to apply a status effect?
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I know they're ridiculously expensive, and maybe according to your logic above, maybe I should be shooting for more overall damage...
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It's your blaster. You play it, and anything that you decide to do with it should be based only on what you want and think would be fun.
For my blasters, I'm giving +damage a very serious look. My eventual goal with my Archery blasters is to be capable of defeating a +0 minion with two attacks, Aimed Shot and Blazing Arrow. The set bonuses will make that possible, whereas Assault alone still meant I had to use a third attack of some type (even Throwing Knives is typically enough to finish that minion!).
I'm also seeing a lot of potential for +regen and +HP, especially if you can get one or two Chance to Heal Self IOs into the single-target attacks. Goodbye Medicine? Maybe, maybe not, but it's an interesting route to go. Coupled with some decent resistances (Fire Shield or Charged Armor, perhaps with Tough to buff up the S/L defense a bit more), I think it may turn out to be a very good idea.
The defense bonuses appeal to me less because they either take a very significant slot investment that doesn't make sense for Archery blasting (why would i want to 6-slot a melee attack?), or offer such a diverse and weak selection that it's nearly impossible to build up a good defense total (yes, 1.88% energy or cold defense here and there is nice, but that won't stop the hail of gunfire coming at me!).
The Build Up IO is one I only recently started trying to fit into builds. I think it'd be exceptionally good for an Archery/Devices, but I'm leaning toward it just being a nifty extra for everything else. I'd have to experiment with it to see just how "good" it would be, and whether or not it would be more beneficial than a Heal proc, or simply saving that slot for another power.
The Chance for Energy Damage IO from Positron's Blast is looking incredible for Fistful and Explosive, but not for RoA. It just feels like a waste to put that proc IO into that particular power because it's already such a massive damage dealer that it doesn't need it. In the two lower damage multi-target attacks, though, it offers some really amazing return for the investment.
One thing that I've recently settled on is using Dam/Range IOs in Fistful, instead of a full IO set. I've already got Dancing Hawk slotted with 3 Centrioles in Fistful (did that waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I7 was still new), and the difference between the "old" Fistful and how it is now with the HOs is so blatantly better that I'm always noticing how... icky it is not to have extra range in that power when I play my Archery blasters. I like IOs for this now because I can also pick up some extra set bonuses by slotting 4 from one set, then 1 Dam/Range from each of the other two sets. I'll eventually switch Dancing Hawk's HOs for IOs, just because they really are that nice for Fistful.
On the other hand, I want to avoid all Dam/Range in Explosive. That allows me to almost even out the ranges in my attacks, which means no more leaping/hovering back and forth.
I've been playing with the Toxic Damage proc in Ranged Shot for the last couple of weeks. It's... cute, but not terribly impressive or useful. Once in a while, it might allow you to defeat a +0 minion without additional buffs, but other than that, it's just set bonus fodder to me.
Basically, I'm asking myself where the holes in my build are and looking to the sets to fill them. Extra damage procs for Fistful and Explosive, extra range for Fistful, extra damage across the board and increased survivability. If it's a power that I rarely use, I don't want a proc IO in it unless it's just something cheap that I picked up for a set bonus. If a proc IO would benefit me, I want to put it into the power that I'm going to use very frequently. And if it's a proc IO that benefits me and is in a frequently used power, I want it to be something that's going to always be useful, not only useful on the random mob that I haven't finished off yet.
All of that said, if the Chance for Hold IO made the power that it was in crackle with electricity, I'd slot that bloody thing in Aimed Shot on every single blaster I have or will ever make and never regret it. I'm still upset that I can't have a real Zappy Arrow. 
OK, That was great info. Thanks again. I do like having Shocking Bolt (When I got it, I felt SOOOO much safer! - Hadn't had Stunning Bolt, so it was my first ranged mitigation after having Ice Patch). But Shocking Bolt and IP seem to be enough to keep me 'safe'.
Thanks for pointing out the reasoning about the Hold proc. "How much am I going to benefit from this?" is a great question to have handy.
I'm seriously liking your Assault idea. Esp with Stamina and your damage stack.
And I agree, Zappy Arrow would be sweeet.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
I'd say that you're waiting a little too long to get Blazing Arrow, which makes a really big difference in your damage output at low levels. Unless you're planning to just spam debuffs and let other people handle the damage, and even then you'll probably miss it.
If this was a PvE character, I'd say you're insane for putting Disruption Arrow off until 44. On the PvP side, Disruption Arrow is admittedly a bit less useful, but I think you should at least consider whether you can't squeeze it in earlier.
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others