Patron Powers: Captain Mako - Leviathan Mastery
By
Aeacus,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:42 in Developers' Corner
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My apologies for posting just based on the numbers, but I really don't have time to try out all of the PPPs in less than a month.
This is a review of Captain Mako for Dominators
Water Spout seems like a nice control addition to an AT that already has many long recharging control powers.
Shark Skin is a welcome addition, since Dominators don't have access to decent armours otherwise. I hear that it's pretty good resistance.
Bile Spray is a weaker version of the cone attacks that most of the Dominator secondaries already have. Its only interesting feature is that it is Toxic damage which is not defended against, and not much resisted against. With damage of 33 at level 40, (vs even con?), it compares unfavourably with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.
I find non-perma pets to be an interesting idea, although there are many things I would rather have. I can always get a steady supply of Shivans anyway. Considering the fact that Domination is not always available, they could make a Dominator's effectiveness more consistent. This will really depend on the particular pets.
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So, in super summary mode, a average cone attack, same as we have but on a LONG recharge timer, an armor (which is great, but protects le/SM + cold which is exceedingly rare), and a pet available on a long timer.
Seems to me, with the recharge timers, the armor is likely to be the only thing normally used. Does this seem to be true? Or is the timer on spout not prohibitive?
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Bile Spray ... With damage of 33 at level 40, (vs even con?)
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Is this from your own testing?
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Check my disclaimer, I just don't have the time for the testing required for something like this.
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Cheita_Corps:
he's posting based off the numbers the devs gave us on the plaques.
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Actually it's worse than that. I was going off the numbers that someone else read from the plaques. 
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_Brev_:
If so then that's odd because it's not what I was expecting to see - it should be closer to 40 if it follows the same Damage Scale as the Brute and MM versions. If you do actually have Chum Spray yourself could you possibly supply some more data please so we can work out for sure what its Damage Scale is for Dominators?
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Well that certainly changes things, but it still seems weaker than Frost Breath.
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it compares unfavourably with Frost Breath doing 40 against +1s at level 36, and Psychic Scream which does 30 against +2s at level 40. The 32 second recharge is too long, when compared with Dominators other AoE attacks.
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It's interesting that you should bring this up actually as I was looking at its effectiveness versus some of the other Dom cones just yesterday. I'm not sure what the slotting is on your examples (the numbers aren't quite what I would expect)
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My quoted numbers are rough, they are rounded numbers on my part, or approximations based on slotting, but should be with a point or two damage wise. I didn't feel I needed more precision than that to compare them unfavourably to existing powers.
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, but I will go with the Damage Scale numbers on RedTomax' site. These are the stats for those 3 powers:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> Max Ang Rad Rng Acc Act Rech End Tick Dmg
Frost Breath 10 30° 40ft 40ft 1.2 2.67s 16s 15.184 - 0.91
Psychic Scream 10 30° 60ft 60ft 1 2.67s 12s 11.856 - 0.676
Chum Spray - 30° 60ft 60ft 1 2.67s 32s 18.98 - 0.78</pre><hr />
Overall I agree that Chum Spray could be better - just a recharge and endurance adjustment would be fine though IMO - I'm not expecting a damage juggernaut.
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That does lay things out pretty nicely, and it illustrates my disappointment. At level 41 I can take a power that's not much different from those that were available at level 16. Every other AT gets a few new effects in their EPPs, APPs, PPPs. Dominators get an armour and 3 things they already have.
So, from a normal game POV, we can do CS every 32 seconds. The pet is every 15 minutes, and the spout is every 4? minutes (last two from memory, could be wrong).
I dont mind an AOE, on my fire/fire dom I may actually take another AOE to add to breath of fire, combustion, and hot feet. On my ice/nrg, I didnt take whirling hands, and not planning on CS. Two weak AOE type attacks just add the agro, dont help a lot.
If you use an immob, does spout do good damage?
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That maybe it.
Well you can ignore me, carry on 
Oh and I appreciate the number crunching you and the others are doing.
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i appreciate it too. too bad the devs didnt bother doing it to tell that these powers are crap
if we're level 41, we should be getting stronger powers than we could get at lvl 4
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The pet is every 15 minutes, and the spout is every 4? minutes (last two from memory, could be wrong).
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The pet lasts 4 minutes and recharges in 15, so available 27% of the time.
Water Spout lasts 30 seconds and recharges in 3 minutes (17% of the time), but can be enhanced with recharge reduction and 3 even SO's will bring it down to a tad over 90secs, meaning it is out about 33% of the time. From my testing so far with just a single recharge it is out often enough for most purposes (good for starting on a boss or PvP foe, or as a panic button if you bite off more than you can chew with your standard controls) and with more recharge should be better still. It's quite expensive for me in terms of endurance (I already run pretty heavy) so I may experiment with slotting a bit - perhaps 2 rech, 2 dam, 2 endrdx.
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If you use an immob, does spout do good damage?
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Well I wouldn't call it outstanding damage, but the damage ticks come pretty thick and fast if a target is knockback protected and there are no other distractions for the spout. With some damage enhancements I could see it doing a reasonable amount. Unfortunately it doesn't show up on the user's damage log so I can't give you any reliable numbers - I may have a go in the arena and ask an opponent if it shows up for them.
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The pet is every 15 minutes, and the spout is every 4? minutes (last two from memory, could be wrong).
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The pet lasts 4 minutes and recharges in 15, so available 27% of the time.
Water Spout lasts 30 seconds and recharges in 3 minutes (17% of the time), but can be enhanced with recharge reduction and 3 even SO's will bring it down to a tad over 90secs, meaning it is out about 33% of the time. From my testing so far with just a single recharge it is out often enough for most purposes (good for starting on a boss or PvP foe, or as a panic button if you bite off more than you can chew with your standard controls) and with more recharge should be better still. It's quite expensive for me in terms of endurance (I already run pretty heavy) so I may experiment with slotting a bit - perhaps 2 rech, 2 dam, 2 endrdx.
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If you use an immob, does spout do good damage?
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Well I wouldn't call it outstanding damage, but the damage ticks come pretty thick and fast if a target is knockback protected and there are no other distractions for the spout. With some damage enhancements I could see it doing a reasonable amount. Unfortunately it doesn't show up on the user's damage log so I can't give you any reliable numbers - I may have a go in the arena and ask an opponent if it shows up for them.
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Let me know if you want someone to help test it. With the bugs nuking all my progress (have to keep re-copying my toon over to load the test server without it crashing), I doubt I will get to try any of these powers on test. I have done the mako arcs about 3 times so far, with each later on becoming unable to be played due to it crashing when the server is loading.
I had even got a GM to boost me past the no map darkness COT mission, but hes stuck now.
Could someone please post a screenshot of Spirit Shark Jaws?
I second this request.
I reached 41 on my Master Mind and tested both Bile Spray and School of Sharks. I went into Mako's Master Mind PPP with an open mind but was very disenchanted after testing.
Bile Spray
I have to say I found this attack pretty sad and redundant. It is a cone attack that does Toxic damage up front and a few DoT ticks. It has no useful side effects like debuffs.
I thought the idea of APPs and PPPs was to give the archetype things it didn't already have? Every Master Mind primary set has an area effect damage attack. Mine is M30 Grenade, which is frankly better in all ways except damage type (better range, radius instead of cone, knockback side effect). 
Most MMs never take their personal attacks anyway, relying instead on pet damage. Giving us not just another personal attack, but one so redundant with existing attacks in the primary set, makes no sense to me and was bad design. It's like giving Scrappers another low damage melee attack, or giving Controllers an Immobilize. Heck, even those would probably be more useful.
School of Sharks
Most of my above comments about Bile Spray also apply to School of Sharks. Both are cone attacks that deal damage, with some minor variations. The fact that they are so similar is also bad design... two cone attacks are not expanding my MM into new gameplay options like giving blasts and holds to ATs that don't normally get them.
That said, School of Sharks is still vastly superior to Bile Spray because it at least Immobilizes. The animation is cool for what it is (a bunch of glowy blue sharks). The recharge isn't bad. The duration, range, and damage are nothing to write home about. The fact that the target must be on the ground kind of hurts... spirit sharks can't 'swim' to a jumping or flying target? Guh?
Overall School of Sharks is a fun power to play with, but wholly unimpressive. Master Minds get Immobilize powers already (Web Grenade, Entangling Arrow) as do some henchmen (Spec Ops, Lich). This is, again, redundant with what we already have. Even though my FF MM can't normally Immobilize on demand, I will not be taking this power at any point because it's simply wishy washy and doesn't make me at all stronger in PVE or PVP.
Thoughts
Okay, so the art team has already put time into making these new powers and we are stuck with them. They overlap the existing sets of the AT so much and are so not what the average player would want, they will need a major power upgrade to be worthwhile. Unless I can look at Bile Spray and say "wow, that damage is awesome!" or School and say "wow, that's one nice immobilize!", they're completely skippable and all that programming time was a waste. Possible fixes: Reduce Bile Spray's damage and make it more of a debuff power (-res). Give School of Sharks -jump -fly.
Level 42 Mastermind here, and To go along with Doc Abominbables quote above.
Bile Spray: I have it with 3 green SO Damages, and 1 Recharge. Yet still, it does less effect than my M30 grenade with 2 SO damages and no recharge. As much as I like the animation (and it is funny) It really has no use for a mastermind. Even in mayhem missions, I can use the grenade to clear out rubble/cars, but the bile spray takes just too long to recharge to be useful.
Also, No hard numbers, but let me use anecdotal evidence. A level 42 Character vs a level 13 (Yes, 13) Luddite Lt. should not need two hits. Nor should He need 3 hits on a level 12 Arachnos Boss, with a power thats supposed to be one of the great secrets that must be learned at the highest levels of power.
Animation: Hilarious. Power: Really disappointing.
Here is a couple of movies of waterspout used by lvl 41 NB/NIN Stalker.
Enjoy
Waterspout
thanks!
too bad it doesnt do knockUP instead of knockback :/
oh well, im takin mako since the snipes got re-nerfed
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thanks!
too bad it doesnt do knockUP instead of knockback :/
oh well, im takin mako since the snipes got re-nerfed
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Technically it is a good thing that this has a high enough magnitude to do knock back on ++ bosses. That should make it at least relevant in PVP.
WOW.. I never thought it would be that fast..
ha! thats what you get for getting used to those slow moving ones in that mission with mako, the fonts, and Calystix in it!
Someone please post a screenshot of Spirit Shark Jaws! I keep imagining a giant shark shooting out of the ground and gnawing on someone. If it looks like that I must have this power.
Also it is supposedly -fly, so if you are on the ground and you see a flyer, will the spirit Shark shoot straight up from the ground like a surface to air missle latch onto the flier and pull him to the earth? I really hope so
I'd imagine, in the air, that it will fade in; appear from out of nowhere, just like most henchmen. Just like the other totem shark powers as well.
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ha! thats what you get for getting used to those slow moving ones in that mission with mako, the fonts, and Calystix in it!
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*raises and shakes fist with an angry-constepated look*
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Someone please post a screenshot of Spirit Shark Jaws! I keep imagining a giant shark shooting out of the ground and gnawing on someone. If it looks like that I must have this power.
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Heh agreed - that's how I keep imagining it too. Unfortunately I'll only get access to it on my MM if I manage to get to 47, which isn't going to happen without a level bump. I'm still hoping the dev's might give a +5 level bump to regular characters once this special RV event is done and dusted so we can try out the Recluse SF, though I'm not holding my breath.
I have all but bile spray. They are good do almost no damage......lol....But sprit shark jaws is just about what u think it is a great white coming out of the ground and looks like he is eating the enemy whats cool if u get him on stairs where u can see under and on top it has a tail to....hehe.
[@Brewha] [Lv50-Necro/Dark][Lv50-Spines/SR][Lv50-Thug/Dark][Lv50-Martial arts/Shield] [Lv50-Sonic/Storm][Lv50-Rad/Rad][Lv50-War Mace/Granite][Lv50-Ice/Pain][Lv50-Fire/Psi] [Lv50-SS/Fire][Lv50-Granite/Energy][Lv50-Fort.][Lv50-Earth/Elec][Lv50-AR/Thermal] [Lv50-Energy/Will][Lv50-Energy/Kin][Lv50-Ninja Blade/Dark][Lv50-Crab][Lv50-Fire/Energy] [Lv50-Empathy/Energy][Lv50-Cold/Archery]
Oh please, please, please get a screenie of it and post it up somewhere
if i can find the screen shots i have no idea where it went
[@Brewha] [Lv50-Necro/Dark][Lv50-Spines/SR][Lv50-Thug/Dark][Lv50-Martial arts/Shield] [Lv50-Sonic/Storm][Lv50-Rad/Rad][Lv50-War Mace/Granite][Lv50-Ice/Pain][Lv50-Fire/Psi] [Lv50-SS/Fire][Lv50-Granite/Energy][Lv50-Fort.][Lv50-Earth/Elec][Lv50-AR/Thermal] [Lv50-Energy/Will][Lv50-Energy/Kin][Lv50-Ninja Blade/Dark][Lv50-Crab][Lv50-Fire/Energy] [Lv50-Empathy/Energy][Lv50-Cold/Archery]
I dont know if this is the norm but I thought that this was fixed. Tried to do the patron first mission and I cant complete it cause its spawning an elite boss at the end on villainous.
I thought that you couldnt spawn elite bosses on villainous if your solo but there he is. And in addition to his appeareance why does he have detention bubble. Anytime I do any damage to him he cast it and just waits for his life to recharge to full. This is extremely broken. Given the fact that he is also doing over 400 pts of damage with each attack. I can only stand face to face with him for seconds anyway.
Also in the mission Im being consistantly immobilized with my shields on as a brute, by spec ops. They also proceed to take 45-50% of my end with one of there attacks. After Im immobilized Im sucked dry with two attacks.
Im upset at this cause Im just playing to explore the sets on the test server, and Im encountering this. No elite boss or higher lvl enemies should spawn if Im soloing on villainous. It would be different if I were on relentless or such but Im not and this is something that should be address.
Patron power pool are things that are unique to your character. And since every character picks different patron the arc should be something that can be solo'd by a toon on the proper difficulty.
i solod that guy easy on my NB/SR stalker (just had to use my lv 38 godmode power, lol)
he's a longbow ballista, which are always elite bosses. yes they can appear on villainous. yes you should invite some help if you need it
Even with my Lv38 power, I couldn't do it. I got him to below half, however. The problem was that he kept slapping Detention Field on me and heal up, after MoG wore off.
That maybe it.
Well you can ignore me, carry on
Oh and I appreciate the number crunching you and the others are doing.