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Exactly. The lack of a penalty for death makes the K-D ratio a bad way to balance sets. I think a better judge would be the number of kill per hour.
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How about Bounty/Reputation per hour instead? ...Then divide that by # of deaths.
My Scrapper for instance can walk into Sirens and join a team and walk out with +25 Rep in half an hour and have 1-3 deaths. My Dom might end up on a Stalker-heavy team meanwhile and get +30 rep, but die 40 times getting it.
...atleast that's been MY experience.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
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,said one of the 20 PvPers in this game.
Leave EM alone, please.
I second that
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There is nothing particularly overpowered about stalker EM.
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You're crazy.
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Given the fact that all the EM attacks suck except the last 2 what do you expect? I have played as an Inv/EM tanker and it was a hard road. Can you imagine only being able to tickle your enemies to death for 35 levels? The only way they could nerf EM they would have to totally redo the set, and move the powers around because the attacks are pretty weak as they are until ET and TF.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
[/ QUOTE ]
,said one of the 20 PvPers in this game.
Leave EM alone, please.
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Sorry, but Regen scrappers said the same thing about IH and INV tanks said the same for their passives.
EM is overpowered in comparison to other secondaries in the blaster AT. Things that are overpowered are eventually nerfed.
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I third it. EM so far outperforms other blaster secondaries, it's not even remotely close. Try logging into the Test server on arena PvP nights and just try to find a blaster without the EM secondary.
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Try Electric Manipulation sometime. It's becoming just as common as EM. among Blappers. Larger BIs, sooner, and just about as much stun. For Siren's Call, it's arguably better than EM.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
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There is nothing particularly overpowered about stalker EM.
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You're crazy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the fact that all the EM attacks suck except the last 2 what do you expect? I have played as an Inv/EM tanker and it was a hard road. Can you imagine only being able to tickle your enemies to death for 35 levels? The only way they could nerf EM they would have to totally redo the set, and move the powers around because the attacks are pretty weak as they are until ET and TF.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the tank version. The blaster version sure as hell doesn't "tickle". Neither does the Stalker version.
The problem with the stalker version of EM isn't the burst damage, although that is impressive. It's the stuns that come with that damage. Being able to drop someone with 3 shots without using AS would be perfectly fine if every single hit didn't also have a stun that made your target incapable of responding.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
[/ QUOTE ]
,said one of the 20 PvPers in this game.
Leave EM alone, please.
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Sorry, but Regen scrappers said the same thing about IH and INV tanks said the same for their passives.
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Yeah and regen and inv are sooooo awesome now right? Part of the problem is because they use the always-lower-the-better-power method.
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My fear is that complete transparency will simply narrow the field of "acceptable" PvP builds in the perception of the playerbase, by virtue of having Dev confirmation.
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...driving the PvP players into a few selected FoTM builds, quickly followed by the inevitable nerfs to those selected builds, followed by much ranting and gnashing of teeth.
It's a wonderful Catch-22, isn't it? The more serious a powergamer you become, the MORE likely you are to see a nerf to your favorite...because lots and lots of other people are reaching the same conclusions that you are.
Yes, publishing the data would be a really bad idea (from a public relations standpoint alone, a complete nightmare). Four AT's screaming about the other eight being better...the other eight getting upset 'stop nerfcalling!'...the top four ripping each other in board wars...and everyone mad at the devs.
I don't think you're likely to see it. If you DO see it, stop reading the message boards for a few months, because it's gonna be a firestorm no matter what the numbers actually say.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
[/ QUOTE ]
,said one of the 20 PvPers in this game.
Leave EM alone, please.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but Regen scrappers said the same thing about IH and INV tanks said the same for their passives.
EM is overpowered in comparison to other secondaries in the blaster AT. Things that are overpowered are eventually nerfed.
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In PVP Energy and Elec/ might dominate, but PVE-wise, it's stuff like /Energy and /Elec that makes Blasters compare favorably vs. Scrappers and Brutes and even some Tanks.
Generally speaking (there are some ranged Blaster primaries that can pwnz Scrappers even without dipping into the secondary for anything besides buildup and the first power you msut take) without powerful Blaps, Blasters would basically just be ranged Scrappers without the defense, mezz protection, a lower base damage, and no crits.
And anyhow, for PVE, Energy Melee is balanced too for the reasons EvilRyu stated. It's got Two high damage attacks, one mediocre damage attack (Bone Smasher), and the other attacks just plain suck.
Damage per second wise, it balances out to be the same as or actually inferior to other Melee sets. It's just that the frontloaded damage is so awesome, people dont' pay close enough attention to notice that.
And I guess in pvp Burst damage > DPS, but I'd hate to see PVP-focused changes that nerfed EM too hard in PVE.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
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Go home, you nerfherder. Blasters have been literally dying for the other secondaries to be brought up to EM standards. Nerfing EM is the wrong direction to go, bringing other secondaries up to EM standard is the right direction.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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There is nothing particularly overpowered about stalker EM.
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You're crazy.
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I second that.
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I third it. EM so far outperforms other blaster secondaries, it's not even remotely close. Try logging into the Test server on arena PvP nights and just try to find a blaster without the EM secondary.
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In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.
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I find that very, very hard to believe.
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Wait, why aren't you nerfing EM?
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Good question. Since it's not i7, hopefully we'll see it as a post i7 change or in i8. I'd really like my other blasters to perform like my /EM.
[/ QUOTE ]
Other sets need improvement to EM levels, not a Nerf to EM.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I see a conceptual problem with what they did in PvP with both Blaster and Stalker powers. Briefly, they took the biggest frontload damage, which also tends to come with a strong mez, and added toggle dropping.
This is a three way overkill. It allows one power to deliver two or three of the things one needs to win in PvP.
*) Burst DPS
*) Mezzing
*) (Multiple) toggle dropping against armored targets
My guess is this was done for thematic reasons. Big, bone-crushing attacks seem thematically approprite to also disorient you and knock off powers you're maintaining.
From a balance perspective, by combining all these features into a single power they're allowing these ATs to do in one massive shot something that other ATs - even other primary damage-dealers - have to use two or three powers to attain. This is what allows these AT/powersets to solo so well. Other people need a team to either assist in the DPS or at least interfere with the ability to flee.
My suggestions for fixing these problems:
*) Keep toggle dropping far, far away from mez powers. Require that to be a two-hit combination.
*) Consider making toggle dropping hard to obtain for sets (or ATs) that already deal poorly resisted damage. For example, sets that deal primarily/only lethal/smashing damage would get vastly more mileage out of detoggles than energy-based or elements-based sets would.
I do maintain that I do not see an issue with Energy Melee outside of Blasters and Stalkers. I have just as much respect for a SS Tanker or Brute as I do for an EM one. I may resist the SS Tanker/Brute more, but he still hits damn hard, and has other tools that help make up the difference (Rage). But the combination of high-burst damage, high mez frequency and guaranteed toggle dropping is an over-the-top combination of features useful in PvP .
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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CoX will be a better place if the other blaster powersets were improved with EM as a guide.
There is nothing particularly overpowered about stalker, Tank, or Brute EM.
[/ QUOTE ]
What he said.
Maybe if they looked at some sets, like say the blaster fire secondary, they'd see why so few people take it.
But that'd be too easy.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
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Go home, you nerfherder. Blasters have been literally dying for the other secondaries to be brought up to EM standards. Nerfing EM is the wrong direction to go, bringing other secondaries up to EM standard is the right direction.
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exactly!!!!!!!!!!
If they want to nerf /eng or /elc then they better start giving some serious damage buffs to all the primaries yes even ice to compensate couse right now the way to kill high res, high hp, high def AT's is by supplementing range attacks to the secondary melles to form a decent attack chain.
Think about it. Is the complaint that everyone is running around with the same powers, just because of variety's sake? NO! The problem is that blasters/stalkers are running around with an overpowered set, trivialising PvP.
And you want the other sets buffed to that point? You want all blasters functioning on EM levels?
You're crazy.
I grant you that some sets are underperforming. There's no question that if you have /fire, sometimes, you may as well not have a secondary in PvP. Sure, buff /fire if you want, for blasters. The fact that EM is over powered doesn't mean that the other sets are underpowered - there can be both at the same time.
But to say that /claws or /spines or /MA stalkers are underpowered? That you can ignore them in PvP, the way that EM ignores just about any defence you can have? That we should have every single stalker on EM levels?
You're crazy.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
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Go home, you nerfherder. Blasters have been literally dying for the other secondaries to be brought up to EM standards. Nerfing EM is the wrong direction to go, bringing other secondaries up to EM standard is the right direction.
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I agree the blaster secondaries need to be fixed (except energy) and I think it speaks volumes that the DEVs went with defender secondaries for the corrupters . . .
On Justice
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"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not yet then.. but it will be.. mm
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
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Blasters should have higher kill counts in PvP than scrappers. EM is the only Blasters capable of doing that, according to the numbers. Therefore, other secondaries need to be raised! Stop nerfing!
Note: Scrappers should of course have a better Kill to Death ratio, which they do, but for mass number of kills, Blasters should be higher.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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I think you're letting your ATist rhetoric blind you to the point that Castle's list strictly discusses solo PvP, which he explicitly qualifies. Furthermore, he goes on to vaguely suggest that PvP-performance hierarchy is wholly different on teams -- which is ostensibly what PvP is built around.
[/ QUOTE ]
In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.
"Release the numbers" -- I can't. It really is proprietary info, and the generalities I'm providing are about as far as I can go.
"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.
[/ QUOTE ]
So... 2/5 of the ATs aren't at the bottom (or arguable, 1/3, depending on how you view the EATs).
Two of the ATs at the upper sheath were mentioned, that means (Scrappers and Blasters)-1/6th, so that means that roughly, those ats fit in the 2/6th to 2/3rd bracket 
...
Which leaves, Tankers at the bottom! .
Let's Dance!
[ QUOTE ]
"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.
[/ QUOTE ]
NOOOOOOOOO....
Well maybe he means it is before I7 then 
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Castle replied that the chances of the sets being reworked the way the players were mentioning was not going to happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
Castle said that SOME of the things would not happen and he said that the complete reworking of the powers would not happen in addition to which he said that they are STILL going rework the secondary sets. That is not a maybe, it will happen because the other blaster secondary sets are underperforming compared to EM.
He also stated that there were ideas that could be implimented with ease.
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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.
[/ QUOTE ]
That may be true, but /em currently is a good balancer for regen stalkers and scraps.
I'm not saying nerf one for the other though, believe me. I do think /em in some capacity may need some tweaking. We'll be able to tell a little better after the toggle drop changes. I would much rather see the other secondaries raised somehow to compensate for the disparity.
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Regen isn't particularly phased by toggle dropping, all droping Integration does is mean the stalker/scrapper needs a break free and loses a minescule portion of their healing ability, otherwise, all their powers are clicks or Autos.
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I think you're letting your ATist rhetoric blind you to the point that Castle's list strictly discusses solo PvP, which he explicitly qualifies. Furthermore, he goes on to vaguely suggest that PvP-performance hierarchy is wholly different on teams -- which is ostensibly what PvP is built around.
[/ QUOTE ]
In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.
"Release the numbers" -- I can't. It really is proprietary info, and the generalities I'm providing are about as far as I can go.
"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.
[/ QUOTE ]
So... 2/5 of the ATs aren't at the bottom (or arguable, 1/3, depending on how you view the EATs).
Two of the ATs at the upper sheath were mentioned, that means (Scrappers and Blasters)-1/6th, so that means that roughly, those ats fit in the 2/6th to 2/3rd bracket ...
Which leaves, Tankers at the bottom! .
[/ QUOTE ]
And leaves out MMs, Stalkers and Brutes.
Your opinion could be meaninless too, as maybe Tankers have the best KtD ratio, as I really see teams go after tankers first, unless the team they're facing is all or almost all Tankers, and tankers, while not able to do much damage solo, when teamed can pick up the lucky potshots.
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There is nothing particularly overpowered about stalker EM.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're crazy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I second that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I third it. EM so far outperforms other blaster secondaries, it's not even remotely close. Try logging into the Test server on arena PvP nights and just try to find a blaster without the EM secondary.
[ QUOTE ]
In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.
[/ QUOTE ]
I find that very, very hard to believe.
[ QUOTE ]
Wait, why aren't you nerfing EM?
[/ QUOTE ]
Good question. Since it's not i7, hopefully we'll see it as a post i7 change or in i8. I'd really like my other blasters to perform like my /EM.