Ok good points.
But what about when you placate and you do get the green hidden status in your bar?
I have been hidden using Placate and had the green hidden effect come up. I have also been hidden using placate and it not come up. Does the game know the difference? How can we?
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Ok good points.
But what about when you placate and you do get the green hidden status in your bar?
I have been hidden using Placate and had the green hidden effect come up. I have also been hidden using placate and it not come up. Does the game know the difference? How can we?
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If you placate and then dont get attacked for 10 seconds, you will go back into your regular hide mode. What probubly happened is you placated, then didnt attack or get attacked for 10 seconds without realizing it.
The only way you will know the difference is if you see the hidden status in your status bar. If you dont see the word hidden, then your not. 
Very interesting
But as you lawer the big Samoin I must addvice you that eather and CoV placateing will not mix.
sigh.
you ARE hidden, to everyone, when you placate.
Mob agro code just works so that if they're "mad" at you, they'll chase you whether or not they can see you. So you CAN do things like placate someone, and then jump into the middle of a second group of enemies, with complete safety. They can't see you.
It's just that if 2 things are mad at you, and you placate one of them, then the other is still mad at you, and so ignores the fact that you're hidden.
Here, I got bored, and dug up a [color= red]_Castle_[/color] response from earlier, saying quite clearly that placate gives you "hide" status.
Check it out
This is true, for now. It is my understanding that due to hero whining about placate, it will be changed to have a chance to hit as of I7.
I hope this is false, but I have heard it so much that I tend to believe it.
Angry Cheerleader
Justice
If they do than they will need to add to hit checks to every other auto hit power in the game IE taunt,repel. On the side of fairness and balence ofcourse.
In otherwords let them cry it aint going to happen.
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Here, I got bored, and dug up a [color= red]_Castle_[/color] response from earlier, saying quite clearly that placate gives you "hide" status.
Check it out
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No where in that post does Castle confirm anything about placate. What he is saying, is that for all intents and purposes, "hide" status is only used for determining if you will crit or not. "Hide" status has nothing to do with -Perception.
So yes, Placate does give you "hide" status, but it only grants you -Perception for the target you placated. I wish I knew how to make a video. 
You get "hide" status to everyone letting you AS or critical anyone, because it's really a status on you, not them, and doesn't matter if they can see you.
You aren't actually hidden (as in 'stealthed, untargetable' ,etc) from anyone but your target.
_castle_ sez:
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FYI:
hide gives "hide" Status.
Placate gives "hide" Status.
Smoke Flash does NOT give "hide" Status.
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Thus, I read from this - Using placate (the power) gives you the hide status. It does not give you everything the "hide" toggle gives you, since the hide toggle gives you "hide status" as well as some +Def.
Hide status just equals unsupressed stealth, along with the ability to do AS. You CAN placate one person, turn around and AS someone else who was agroed to you, because placate makes you hidden. You CAN turn off hide, placate someone, and then go dance through mob spawns for the 10 seconds or whatever that the temp hide effect lasts. Because placate makes you hidden.
If you don't believe me, these are easy things to verify for yourselves, people. Maybe I should follow the original poster's lead, and make yet another thread, to explain how placate works. :P
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Ok good points.
But what about when you placate and you do get the green hidden status in your bar?
I have been hidden using Placate and had the green hidden effect come up. I have also been hidden using placate and it not come up. Does the game know the difference? How can we?
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If you placate and then dont get attacked for 10 seconds, you will go back into your regular hide mode. What probubly happened is you placated, then didnt attack or get attacked for 10 seconds without realizing it.
The only way you will know the difference is if you see the hidden status in your status bar. If you dont see the word hidden, then your not.
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So since everytime I placate, I get the word hidden, that means placate hides right. I can attack and immediatly hit placate, and until I attack or get hit I have hidden on my screen.
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When you use it, ONLY the player/mob you Placated is affected. That player/mob can no longer target or attack you until placate wears off, or if your placated hide is broken.
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This also is not true. If I come across a 3 minion group, I can AS one and kill it, placate the second and then switch to the third. I can the crit the third and scrap it to death with out the second one ever realizing I am attacking his buddy. If placate broke when you the hide from it was broke the second guy would auto matically come after me.
Dirges
Placid hides you from one person and is one of the stalkers best skills i would have to say next to assasin strike. So just Placid alows you time to assasin strike one person.
I should probably update my stalker Q&A at some point. Here's how placate works:
First, there is a placate effect and a placate power.
What placate the effect does is remove the user of the placate from the aggro list of the target of the placate, in PvE, and suppress the ability for that critter to reaggro the attacker until the placate wears off or is broken. Attacking, or in any way damaging the target breaks the placate immediately.
Placate the power has a couple of properties:
1. Its autohit
2. It placates (in the sense of the effect) the target
3. It places the stalker into the hidden state
4. Placate counts as an attack. This means even though it takes you off the target's aggro list, it will cause any critters near the targetted critter to aggro on you, just as if you attacked the target with a normal attack.
The hidden state has nothing to do with stealth. It is, in fact, somewhat of a misnomer: it ought to be called the "critical state" because thats what it does: while in the hidden state, stalker attacks will perform critical hits when they land.
The confusion arises because the hidden state is related to another power: hide. Hide will also place the stalker into the hidden state under a certain set of circumstances, but hide itself has a number of properties:
1. Hide is a stealth power: it offers significant -perception.
2. Hide also offers defense like most stealth powers.
3. Hide's -perception and +defense are suppressed, like most stealth powers are, when the stalker is either hit by damage or attacks in turn. Note that attacks break hide's stealth, but not all actions do. Tossing caltrops does not break stealth directly.
4. When hide's stealth activates, hide simultaneously:
* begins to offer -perception
* begins to offer (increased) +def
* places the stalker into the hidden state.
5. If hide's stealth is broken, it takes 10 seconds of inactivity (during which the stalker cannot attack or be hit by damage) before the hide suppression wears off and hide reengages, with all of the effects listed above.
The confusion is that the hidden state can be achieved in two separate ways: placate will immediately place the stalker into the hidden state, and the stealth power hide can also place the stalker into the hidden state. But the hidden state is only one of *many* things both hide and placate do, and most people incorrectly link those powers' other effects with the hidden state.
The hidden state has nothing to do with stealth. Hide offers stealth, and also can get you into the hidden state at the same time. But when placate puts you into the hidden state, placate has no stealth benefit to add on top.
Similarly, placate (the power) has no special critical hit capability. Placate (the power) puts you into the hidden state, and its the hidden state that gets you critical hit capability. Smoke flash, which is an AoE placate (the effect, not the power), is another power that can placate targets, but because it has no ability to place you into the hidden state, you can't crit after using it (necessarily).
There seems to be some confusion as to whether or not placate will place you into the hidden state because the "hidden" word doesn't show up in your console. I'm not sure why: I tested this when I wrote my stalker FAQ, and I retested to be sure: if you turn off hide, walk up to something, and placate them, you immediately get the green "hidden" indicator word on your screen below your buffs, every time. That indicator was added in beta specifically to tell stalkers that the were in the state necessary to critical hit: if you find a circumstance whereby you believe you are in the "hidden" state, because your attacks critical, but the green indicator word doesn't show up on your screen, /bug it.
(By the way, while in the hidden state stalker attacks have a 100% chance to crit: outside of the hidden state stalkers can still land critical hits if the attack they use has an inherent critical hit percentage chance separate from the hidden state. For example, attacks like eagle's claw have inherent critical hit percentages: they can crit at that inherent percentage even if the stalker is not hidden).
Perception is something special. I've discussed perception with Castle recently. The problem with the -perception of hide is that critters are not affected by -perception in the same way that players are. Critters use their perception range for one thing and one thing only: determining if they detect a target to aggro on. Once aggroed, critters do not consult with perception values to track you: in effect, critters that are aggroed on you have almost limitless perception (but it is bounded: you can actually hit targets from outside their maximum perception range, and when you do, they just stand around confused and unable to do anything - try it with a highly slotted snipe), and that perception cannot be significantly altered.
The problem is with critter AI: if a stalker could really make herself "invisible" to a critter, there's no AI available to tell the critters what to do next. So if you aggro a bunch, and then run away, and then rehide, you're invisible, but the critters don't care you're invisible: they'll know where you are regardless, and will target you as if you were perfectly visible.
Notice: mastermind pets will hunt down critters that you as the mastermind can't even see anymore. Anything controlled by the game AI "cheats" perception, because the limitations of the game AI force them to.
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I should probably update my stalker Q&A at some point. Here's how placate works:
First, there is a placate effect and a placate power.
What placate the effect does is remove the user of the placate from the aggro list of the target of the placate, in PvE, and suppress the ability for that critter to reaggro the attacker until the placate wears off or is broken. Attacking, or in any way damaging the target breaks the placate immediately.
Placate the power has a couple of properties:
1. Its autohit
2. It placates (in the sense of the effect) the target
3. It places the stalker into the hidden state
4. Placate counts as an attack. This means even though it takes you off the target's aggro list, it will cause any critters near the targetted critter to aggro on you, just as if you attacked the target with a normal attack.
The hidden state has nothing to do with stealth. It is, in fact, somewhat of a misnomer: it ought to be called the "critical state" because thats what it does: while in the hidden state, stalker attacks will perform critical hits when they land.
The confusion arises because the hidden state is related to another power: hide. Hide will also place the stalker into the hidden state under a certain set of circumstances, but hide itself has a number of properties:
1. Hide is a stealth power: it offers significant -perception.
2. Hide also offers defense like most stealth powers.
3. Hide's -perception and +defense are suppressed, like most stealth powers are, when the stalker is either hit by damage or attacks in turn. Note that attacks break hide's stealth, but not all actions do. Tossing caltrops does not break stealth directly.
4. When hide's stealth activates, hide simultaneously:
* begins to offer -perception
* begins to offer (increased) +def
* places the stalker into the hidden state.
5. If hide's stealth is broken, it takes 10 seconds of inactivity (during which the stalker cannot attack or be hit by damage) before the hide suppression wears off and hide reengages, with all of the effects listed above.
The confusion is that the hidden state can be achieved in two separate ways: placate will immediately place the stalker into the hidden state, and the stealth power hide can also place the stalker into the hidden state. But the hidden state is only one of *many* things both hide and placate do, and most people incorrectly link those powers' other effects with the hidden state.
The hidden state has nothing to do with stealth. Hide offers stealth, and also can get you into the hidden state at the same time. But when placate puts you into the hidden state, placate has no stealth benefit to add on top.
Similarly, placate (the power) has no special critical hit capability. Placate (the power) puts you into the hidden state, and its the hidden state that gets you critical hit capability. Smoke flash, which is an AoE placate (the effect, not the power), is another power that can placate targets, but because it has no ability to place you into the hidden state, you can't crit after using it (necessarily).
There seems to be some confusion as to whether or not placate will place you into the hidden state because the "hidden" word doesn't show up in your console. I'm not sure why: I tested this when I wrote my stalker FAQ, and I retested to be sure: if you turn off hide, walk up to something, and placate them, you immediately get the green "hidden" indicator word on your screen below your buffs, every time. That indicator was added in beta specifically to tell stalkers that the were in the state necessary to critical hit: if you find a circumstance whereby you believe you are in the "hidden" state, because your attacks critical, but the green indicator word doesn't show up on your screen, /bug it.
(By the way, while in the hidden state stalker attacks have a 100% chance to crit: outside of the hidden state stalkers can still land critical hits if the attack they use has an inherent critical hit percentage chance separate from the hidden state. For example, attacks like eagle's claw have inherent critical hit percentages: they can crit at that inherent percentage even if the stalker is not hidden).
Perception is something special. I've discussed perception with Castle recently. The problem with the -perception of hide is that critters are not affected by -perception in the same way that players are. Critters use their perception range for one thing and one thing only: determining if they detect a target to aggro on. Once aggroed, critters do not consult with perception values to track you: in effect, critters that are aggroed on you have almost limitless perception (but it is bounded: you can actually hit targets from outside their maximum perception range, and when you do, they just stand around confused and unable to do anything - try it with a highly slotted snipe), and that perception cannot be significantly altered.
The problem is with critter AI: if a stalker could really make herself "invisible" to a critter, there's no AI available to tell the critters what to do next. So if you aggro a bunch, and then run away, and then rehide, you're invisible, but the critters don't care you're invisible: they'll know where you are regardless, and will target you as if you were perfectly visible.
Notice: mastermind pets will hunt down critters that you as the mastermind can't even see anymore. Anything controlled by the game AI "cheats" perception, because the limitations of the game AI force them to.
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Thank you Arcanaville, you explained it in great detail much better than I could have.
The only thing I was incorrect about was that you do get the "Hidden" word in your buff bar when you use Placate. That could be where all the confusion is coming from. To the Stalker, it does look like they are hidden. The only way the Stalker would know for sure is if they get attacked by the other enemys that are not Placated.
But like I said before. Get 2 friends and go into a PvP zone, test it for yourselves, it would only take you 5 minutes including travel time.
Thanks for the excellent explanation! That certainly cleared up my confusion about it and matches what I think I've seen.
I do think I have seen placate not give me "hidden" on the buff bar though, so I'll try to test that under more controlled circumstances and /bug it if turns out I'm not just smoking crack.
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If they do than they will need to add to hit checks to every other auto hit power in the game IE taunt,repel. On the side of fairness and balence ofcourse.
In otherwords let them cry it aint going to happen.
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Taunt isn't auto hit in pvp.
I'll tell you more than half the time the hidden symbol does not appear when I placate. I do get the crit though and it does perform just like you said so I don't bug it. Most of the time I actually get a symbol under my name that looks like the placate icon showing that I had just placated something instead of it saying hidden. I think this is the way it performs when you constantly have the toggle hide running.
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If they do than they will need to add to hit checks to every other auto hit power in the game IE taunt,repel. On the side of fairness and balence ofcourse.
In otherwords let them cry it aint going to happen.
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I thought taunt was 50% chance in pvp? I could see them making placate the same, or 75%. Something like that.
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If they do than they will need to add to hit checks to every other auto hit power in the game IE taunt,repel. On the side of fairness and balence ofcourse.
In otherwords let them cry it aint going to happen.
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I thought taunt was 50% chance in pvp? I could see them making placate the same, or 75%. Something like that.
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Taunt's recharge is what... 1/10 of Placate's?
If they remove the auto hit from placate, they should also reduce its recharge time.
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Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
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Eh, that's more an argument about the relative merit of each power and if it deserves the recharge it has. Since both are auto-hit in PvE with those recharge times, I don't think the devs will be rushing to twiddle with it.
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If they do than they will need to add to hit checks to every other auto hit power in the game IE taunt,repel. On the side of fairness and balence ofcourse.
In otherwords let them cry it aint going to happen.
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I thought taunt was 50% chance in pvp? I could see them making placate the same, or 75%. Something like that.
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Taunt's recharge is what... 1/10 of Placate's?
If they remove the auto hit from placate, they should also reduce its recharge time.
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If they remove the auto-hit, I not only demand a shorter recharge, but I demand it hit multiple targets like Taunt. I think people who complain about Placate's auto-hit forget that it's single target...
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This is true, for now. It is my understanding that due to hero whining about placate, it will be changed to have a chance to hit as of I7.
I hope this is false, but I have heard it so much that I tend to believe it.
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I heard that anyone who helps to spread unsubstantiated rumors on the message boards about future power changes gets a free swirly by Statesman in I7. The swirly will be auto hit and unresistible. I hope it's not true... no wait, yes I do :P
So is it just lag if you placate a mob or player, the "hidden" status does *NOT* show in your bar, but you can still get a critical?
I personally have never noticed "Hidden" appear when I placate. I know this for sure because when I solo elite bosses, I kill their minions first, after I finish off the minion I placate the EB, then I run away until I go into hide mode again, the whole time I'm looking at my buff bar waiting for "hidden" to show up. Then when I fight the EB, I use placate to get away after my attack chain, I run about 100 yds away, wait for "hidden" to show up, then go back for another round. YMMV of course.
There is a lot of confusion lately on how exactly Placate works. So I am going to attempt to explain it so everyone can understand. It would be nice if a Red Name (Castle) could come in and back me up.
Placate is a single target attack.
It is auto-hit.
When you use it, ONLY the player/mob you Placated is affected. That player/mob can no longer target or attack you until placate wears off, or if your placated hide is broken.
You can then get a critical or AS ANY other player/mob, unless you get interupted. However, you are NOT hidden to anyone else besides the player/mob you placated, so anyone else in the area can target and attack you.
Also, while in a Placated hide, you do NOT get the defensive bonus that hide provides, as you are not truely hidden. You can tell because there is no hidden status in your buff/debuff bar.
This has all been confirmed and tested. Test it for yourselves if you dont believe me. Go into a PvP zone with a couple friends. Placate one friend, and ask the other friend if they can still see you, I garuntee the answer is YES! Then, attack the friend that can still see you (the one you didn't placate) and you will get a critical.