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Placate=jedi mind trick hence the hand wave :P
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Nah, its more like "Now you see me, Now you don't." Jedi Mind trick is for getting someone to do or say as you please.....
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You mean, like... "You haven't seen me. *wave*" ..?
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As much as you try to liken it......Yoda, Luke or Obi-One can't invis themselves....settled.
You know... just because the graphics show them as "invisible" doesn't mean they are to that particular person. My Stalker is just fast, so (to me) Placate is just her blinking out and back in. Much like Scorpion in Mortal Kombat (though, his methods are a bit different). Other people see it as the Jedi Mind Trick (which I still find stupid, since I hate Star Wars) where their target just forgets that they're there... which isn't too far off, since the other enemies can still see you.
Not settled. =P
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You know... just because the graphics show them as "invisible" doesn't mean they are to that particular person. My Stalker is just fast, so (to me) Placate is just her blinking out and back in. Much like Scorpion in Mortal Kombat (though, his methods are a bit different). Other people see it as the Jedi Mind Trick (which I still find stupid, since I hate Star Wars) where their target just forgets that they're there... which isn't too far off, since the other enemies can still see you.
Not settled. =P
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Ok, you're reaching now.....
How am I "reaching?" All I'm saying is that not everyone goes by what's displayed on the freakin' screen and it's true. *flicks*
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How am I "reaching?" All I'm saying is that not everyone goes by what's displayed on the freakin' screen and it's true. *flicks*
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Ok, if we don't go by whats on the screen, what do we go by? The crumbs in your carpet? Simple question.....have you ever seen a Jedi invis themselves in any of the movies? (flicks back). Not even the Star Wars games allow Jedis to invis themselves, Yes...they can change a persons thoughts or have them do things, No... they cannot hide themselves. There is no Jedi Mind Hide trick......Show me otherwise.
You're still going by what you see on screen. Placate only causes you to be invisible to the target (and to those not already aware of your presence). Which means you're not really invisible. You're just "not there" to that target. The others can see you just fine. As far as I know, the Jedi Mind Trick works the same way. Only on the person you use it on. If you tell them "O HAY GUYZ U DONT SEE ME" then guess what? They won't see you. Which means what? You're invisible to them.
The same applies to many other powers. I'll use MA as an example.
You see: Crane Kick failing to knock back an enemy.
I see: A kick goring the enemy.
You see: Crippling Axe Kick striking the enemy unconscious.
I see: Crippling Axe Kick caving in the enemy's skull.
You see: Cobra Strike palming the opponent.
I see: A hand strike hitting one of many vital points on the body OR, if the enemy is not a humanoid... like say, a robot? Disconnecting a few wires, causing the enemy's functions to shut down.
Once again: What's on the screen isn't always what one pictures. Some of us have vivid imaginations. =P
I think you and your vivid imagination need therapy....good luck with that.
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Simple question.....have you ever seen a Jedi invis themselves in any of the movies? There is no Jedi Mind Hide trick......Show me otherwise.
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Please insert Star Wars Episode IV into your DVD/VCR and watch very closely when Obi Wan and Luke are speaking with Han Solo and Chewbacca to negotiate passage to Alderan. It is in this scene, where Storm troopers arrive looking for Obi Wan and Luke in the cantina, that the Jedi Mind hide trick is clearly displayed.
Hope that cleared things up for you.
Ant
Antaean
Proud to fight alongside:
The LEGENDARIES & SAFE HARBOR
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Other powers which can Placate (Smoke Flash) only apply the First part. The Hide like stat is not granted at all -- in other words, it is 100% defensive, not a Set Up power.
Perhaps it would help alleviate confusion if Placate (the power) had its name changed to something like Distract.
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Agreed. And the Hidden state should have its name changed as well, as it is easy to assume that it means that one is, well, hidden 
That's how I look at Hide/Placate.
You're not invisible. You're simply beneath their notice. Someone Else's Problem.
In RP terms... a civilian. A waiter, a tv repairman, a fellow gang member. "hey who's that?" "I dunno, just some chick in a ninja outfit. Harmless."
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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That's how I look at Hide/Placate.
You're not invisible. You're simply beneath their notice. Someone Else's Problem.
In RP terms... a civilian. A waiter, a tv repairman, a fellow gang member. "hey who's that?" "I dunno, just some chick in a ninja outfit. Harmless."
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For the Discworld fans out there, I think of it as being something like that ability Death and his granddaughter have. They're not invisible, people just don't let themselves notice them - their mind rationalizes the experience into something unimportant and not worth thinking about.
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Hide-like in this case = can't see them, and they can do Assassin strikes out of it.
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Nope, as I mentioned, and Castle reiterates, the hidden state that Placate the power confers has no stealth component associated with it. If you placate a target and you don't actually have the Hide power or any other stealth power running, you can clearly see that the hidden state has no stealth of its own; the placated target cannot target you, but anyone and everyone else can still see you fine (players and critters).
The definitive PvE test: find two critters close to each other but clearly in different spawns (so alarms from one won't aggro the other). Run up to the first one, and placate him, then quickly run up to the other one. The second one will definitely see you and attack, even if you still have the "hidden" green state in your console: that green "hidden" word has nothing to do with stealth or -perception.
[/ QUOTE ]Wrong. You are Hidden-Like(TM) (I know it's not grammatically correct, sue me :P) to everyone, as the Hidden-Like(TM) effect is applied to the player, not the mob. You're getting confused because you're reading one sentence without the follow up qualifier:
"Second, it applies a 'Hide Like' state, which is neither Hide, nor Stealth. It does allow for Stalker powers critical's, however.
It does not give any Defense bonus at all."
The reason it is not Hide or Stealth is because both of these states have an inherent defensive component, which the Hide-Like(TM) effect doesn't have. That is the distinction he is making, as evidenced by the second sentence.
Your example regarding PvE is flawed, because you're not taking into account the effective level of invisibility granted by the Hide-Like(TM) effect (which is currently an unknown). Therefor, just as running up to a mob with insufficient stealth/invisibility/what have you will result in the mob seeing you once you pass a certain distance, so will running up to a mob with Hide-Like on. Once you get on a mobs aggro list, it will attack you through invisibility/stealth/etc, unless you Placate it.
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The hide-like state, as you call it, has no -perception at all. I've tested this quite carefully, in beta, and on live. I'm not confused by any aspect of the hidden state: I've tested it carefully in both PvP, and PvE. What Castle calls the "hide-like state" is exactly the same thing I call the "hidden/critical state" as opposed to being actually hidden in the sense of the Hide power. The "hidden state" as indicated by the green hidden word on the screen is unrelated to stealth, and unrelated to the hide power, and unrelated to -perception.
Test before posting corrections please.
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Placate=jedi mind trick hence the hand wave :P
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Nah, its more like "Now you see me, Now you don't." Jedi Mind trick is for getting someone to do or say as you please.....
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You mean, like... "You haven't seen me. *wave*" ..?
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"This is not the stalker you're looking for..."