[ QUOTE ]
It's been a while since someone posted here, but I was wondering if anyone had tested the stealth numbers for SuperSpeed. The generally accepted wisdom for a while was that stealth + superspeed = invisibility. Just curious as to how close to accurate that was. I don't have SS on any of my toons but was interested in acquiring it if it's an effective combo in PvP.
Thanks
[/ QUOTE ] The DEV's said they turned off the stealth component in SuperSpeed for PvP... It was too powerful I guess 
In PvP Super Speed works only against Pets.
stealth + superspeed = Pets w/o +perception cannot see you.
Virture
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, if my Ill/TA is in Siren's Call, has SI on and fires a Flash Arrow, the SI stealth would be at 501.5(due to the cap) and the Target of the FA would be at -450 Perception, giving my Ill/TA an EFECTIVE stealth of 951.5?
Or ami I just C R A 2 Y
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that would work (assuming your target was getting NO +perception...buff, especially being capped or overcappedcould counteract this...Flash Arrow would be less effective)...but yes, you are C R A 2 Y [/color]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so if I have on Invisiblity (-575 lvl 50 non stalker) and my /SR has Focused Senses (+300) and Focused Accuracy (+300) I could see the Invis at 25 ft away? Alright what If I had Tactics (+243 Scrapper) instead of FA? (now +543) Does than mean I never could see the invis? Just trying to figure this out, thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Total distance you can be seen is 500 (base) + (perception buffs - perception debuffs) - (stealth buffs - stealth debuffs) = distance target can be seen.
So in your example, it'd be 500 + (300 + 300) - (575) = 525 feet
example 2 is 500 + (543) - (575) = 468 feet
[/ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know where the clamping for max perception + and - occur? Is it A or B below?
Definitons:
TD = Total distance you can see an opponent
BPD = Base perception distance (500)
PB = Perception buffs
PD = Perception debuffs
SB = Stealth buffs
SD = Stealth debuffs
Restating equation with pluses and minuses grouped: TD = BPD + (PB + SD) - (PD + SB)
A: TD = BPD + ClampToPlusPerceptionCap(PB + SD) - ClampToMinusPerceptionCap(PD + SB)
This would imply at max pluses and minuses that a stalker could be seen at 510 feet.
B: TD = ClampToPlusPerceptionCap(BPD + PB + SD) - ClampToMinusPerceptionCap(PD + SB)
This would imply at max pluses and minuses that a stalker could be seen at 10 feet.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Z.
"I don't have an angel and a devil on my shoulder, I have Rocky and Bullwinkle." - Lore Sj�berg
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Invisibility, Grants Invisibility: -611 (Refer the stealth cap.)[*]Group Invisibility, Superior Invisibility: -575 (Refer the stealth cap.)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This is sad.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Invisibility, Grants Invisibility: -611 (Refer the stealth cap.)[*]Group Invisibility, Superior Invisibility: -575 (Refer the stealth cap.)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This is sad.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can use powers on enemies from superior invis. I'd say that makes up for it by quite a bunch.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so if I have on Invisiblity (-575 lvl 50 non stalker) and my /SR has Focused Senses (+300) and Focused Accuracy (+300) I could see the Invis at 25 ft away? Alright what If I had Tactics (+243 Scrapper) instead of FA? (now +543) Does than mean I never could see the invis? Just trying to figure this out, thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Total distance you can be seen is 500 (base) + (perception buffs - perception debuffs) - (stealth buffs - stealth debuffs) = distance target can be seen.
So in your example, it'd be 500 + (300 + 300) - (575) = 525 feet
example 2 is 500 + (543) - (575) = 468 feet
[/ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know where the clamping for max perception + and - occur? Is it A or B below?
Definitons:
TD = Total distance you can see an opponent
BPD = Base perception distance (500)
PB = Perception buffs
PD = Perception debuffs
SB = Stealth buffs
SD = Stealth debuffs
Restating equation with pluses and minuses grouped: TD = BPD + (PB + SD) - (PD + SB)
A: TD = BPD + ClampToPlusPerceptionCap(PB + SD) - ClampToMinusPerceptionCap(PD + SB)
This would imply at max pluses and minuses that a stalker could be seen at 510 feet.
B: TD = ClampToPlusPerceptionCap(BPD + PB + SD) - ClampToMinusPerceptionCap(PD + SB)
This would imply at max pluses and minuses that a stalker could be seen at 10 feet.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Z.
[/ QUOTE ]
Should be case B, 10 ft.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square">[*]Invisibility, Grants Invisibility: -611 (Refer the stealth cap.)[*]Group Invisibility, Superior Invisibility: -575 (Refer the stealth cap.)[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
This is sad.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can use powers on enemies from superior invis. I'd say that makes up for it by quite a bunch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you can but it surpresses to a zero buff for 10 seconds .... IIRC.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
I thought I should make this guide reader-friendly.
[u]Updates from 02/12/06[u]
Added simple explanation how perception/stealth work.
Added formulas to calculate perception/stealth.
Clear Mind/Clarity values now depend on Archtype and combat level.
Added several powers to the list.
Added explanations for stealth suppression.
Changed pets/henchmen perception since its correctness was only apparent and partial.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A GUIDE FOR PERCEPTION/STEALTH in PVP
[u]Perception[u]
The Perception value XXX directly represents your ability to detect enemies from XXX feet away.
[u]Stealth[u]
The Stealth value XXX directly represents your ability to conceal yourself from enemies by XXX feet.
[u]To detect stealthy enemy[u]
If the value [YourPerception - Enemy'sStealth] is positive, you can detect the enemy from [The Remainder of the Subtraction] feet away.
[u]To hide from enemy[u]
If the value [Enemy'sPerception - YourStealth] is negative, the enemy cannot detect you.
[u]Perception Keenness Formula[u]
NetPerception = [Base + Buff - Debuff * (1 - Resist)] capped at [PerceptionCap]
where
Base: player's base perceptoin, 500 feet
Buff: +perception powers applied to you
Debuff: -perception powers applied to you
Resist: resistance to perception debuffs, capped at 100%
PerceptionCap: the maximum perception value that players cannot exceed
[u]Stealth Depth Formula[u]
NetStealth = [Buff - Debuff] capped at [StealthCap]
where
Buff: +stealth powers applied to you
Debuff: -stealth powers applied to you
StealthCap: the maximum stealth value that players cannot exceed
[u]Perceptoin Buffs/Debuffs[u]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Name Available from Value Percentage Note
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Base Perception --- 500 100%
Insight Inspiration 125 25% grants 25% resistance to -perception, self-stackable
Keen Insight Inspiration 166 33% grants 33% resistance to -perception, self-stackable
Uncanny Insight Inspiration 250 50% grants 50% resistance to -perception, self-stackable
IR Goggle Temp Power 200 40% per 50% of the time checked every 10 seconds
Increase Perception Empowerment 100 20% ---
Targeting Drone Devices 300 60% ---
Cloak of Darkness Dark Armor 300 60% ---
Focused Senses Super Reflexes 300 60% ---
Danger Sense Ninjitsu 300 60% ---
Minerals Stone Armor 300 60% ---
Glacial Armor Ice Armor 300 60% ---
Focused Accuracy Body/Energy Mastery 300 60% ---
Shadow Cloak Umbral Aura 300 60% ---
Tactics Leadership 2.0 * Res_Boolean ---
Clear Mind Empathy 2.5 * Res_Boolean grants resistance to -perception, stackable even from the same caster
Clarity Sonic Resonance 2.5 * Res_Boolean grants resistance to -perception, stackable even from the same caster
Smoke Grenade Devices -450 -90% unstackable from the same caster, wears off when the target is damaged
Smoke Fire Control -450 -90% resistable, unstackable from the same caster, wears off when the target is damaged
Flash Arrow Trick Arrow -450 -90% unresistable, unstackable from the same caster, wears off when the target is damaged
Seeker Drones Traps -450 -90% wears off when the target is damaged
Seeker Drones Robotics:Protector Bot -450 -90% wears off when the target is damaged
Blinding Powder Ninjitsu -450 -90% wears off when the target is damaged
</pre><hr />If you have any question about Res_Boolean, read iakona's Power Data Standardization v2.0
Tactics +Perception Values
Clear Mind & Clarity +Perception Values
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Combat level Defender Controller/Corruptor
-----------------------------------------------------------------
8 278.1 (56%) ---
9 284.4 (57%) ---
10 290.6 (58%) ---
11 296.9 (59%) ---
12 303.1 (61%) ---
13 309.4 (62%) ---
14 315.6 (63%) ---
15 321.9 (64%) ---
16 328.1 (66%) 262.5 (53%)
17 334.4 (67%) 267.5 (54%)
18 340.6 (68%) 272.5 (55%)
19 346.9 (69%) 277.5 (56%)
20 353.1 (71%) 282.5 (57%)
21 359.4 (72%) 287.5 (58%)
22 365.6 (73%) 292.5 (59%)
23 371.9 (74%) 297.5 (60%)
24 378.1 (76%) 302.5 (61%)
25 384.4 (77%) 307.5 (62%)
26 390.6 (78%) 312.5 (63%)
27 396.9 (79%) 317.5 (64%)
28 403.1 (81%) 322.5 (65%)
29 409.4 (82%) 327.5 (66%)
30 415.6 (83%) 332.5 (67%)
31 421.9 (84%) 337.5 (68%)
32 428.1 (86%) 342.5 (69%)
33 434.4 (87%) 347.5 (70%)
34 440.6 (88%) 352.5 (71%)
35 446.9 (89%) 357.5 (72%)
36 453.1 (91%) 362.5 (73%)
37 459.4 (92%) 367.5 (74%)
38 465.6 (93%) 372.5 (75%)
39 471.9 (94%) 377.5 (76%)
40 478.1 (96%) 382.5 (77%)
41 484.4 (97%) 387.5 (78%)
42 490.6 (98%) 392.5 (79%)
43 496.9 (99%) 397.5 (80%)
44 503.1 (101%) 402.5 (81%)
45 509.4 (102%) 407.5 (82%)
46 515.6 (103%) 412.5 (83%)
47 521.9 (104%) 417.5 (84%)
48 528.1 (106%) 422.5 (85%)
49 534.4 (107%) 427.5 (86%)
50 540.6 (108%) 432.5 (87%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The % in parentheses is equal to the value of resistance to -perception.
</pre><hr />
[u]Stealth Buffs/Debuffs[u]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Name Available from Value Note
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hide Stalker Secondaries 500 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being damaged
Stealth Concealment 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Grants Invisibility Concealment 611 completely wears off after attacking/being attacked
Invisibility Concealment 611 NEVER be suppressed
Phase Shift Concealment 222 ---
Group Invisibility Illusion Control 667 capped at -571.5 after all (except the case you team up with stalker in Arena), completely wears off after attacking/being attacked
Superior Invisibility Illusion Control 1000 capped at -571.5 after all, suppressed to zero for 6 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Cloaking Device Devices 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Steamy Mist Storm Summoning 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Arctic Fog Cold Domination 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Shadow Fall Dark Miasma 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Cloak of Darkness Dark Armor 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Energy Cloak Energy Armor 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Quantum Flight Luminous Aura 222 ---
Shadow Cloak Umbral Aura 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Stealth Suit (variants) Temp Power 389 suppressed to zero for 10 seconds after attacking/being attacked
Grant Invisibility Empowerment 250
Placate Stalker Primaries 380 wears off after attacking/being damaged
Arctic Air Ice Control -389
Stealth Suppression Base Defence -1000 up to 10 targets within 40 feet of the item
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Attack" includes controlls/debuffs which deal no damage.
</pre><hr />
[u]Stealth Suppression[u]
As noted above, any type of +stealth except Hide and Invisibility is suppressed to zero after you attack or are attacked.
Hide is not suppressed by being affected by debuffs which deal no damage.
Invisibility is never suppressed, even when you toggleon Invisibility after attacking.
The +stealth component of click powers (two GI) completely wears off when you attack or are attacked. (You still look translucent.)
[u]Player vs. Pets/Henchmen[u]
Player vs. Pets/Henchmen follows common PvE rules.
- They have only 45 feet base perception
- Most powers work differently. For an example of weak stealth: -35 instead of -389.
- Super Speed works against them.
- Their perceptoin cap is not high enough to detect Hide or other strong stealth powers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to iakona for providing the perception/stealth cap and Tactics values, and for correction.
Virture
Thanks for the summary Peritus!
Here is one other thing I tested out yesterday about Ice tankers. Ice Tankers get +300 perception from Glacial Armor (+Perception Total = 800). So normally they shouldn't be able to see a Stalker with Hide+Stealth (-Perception Total = -890). BUT Ice Tanks also have Chilling Embrace, which is a 10ft PBAoE that does -Damage, -Recharge, -Speed, and is Autohit. Since it is Autohit, it supresses the -Perception from Stealth, but not Hide (since it does no damage), so the Stalker is down to a -Perception Total of -500, and is therefore seen by the Tanker. As soon as the Stalker moves out of range of the Chilling Embrace, the Ice Tanker loses him again.
So in summary, an Ice Tanker with Glacial Armor and Chilling Embrace will see a Stalker within 10 ft no matter what -Perception toggle powers the stalker has.
Just a couple notes:
The perception debuff powers are correct, but you should add that the effects cancel when the target is damaged.
Superior Invisibility is the only stealth toggle that suppresses for 6 seconds. All other toggles suppress for 10 seconds.
Group Invisibility is 667 feet of stealth vs. players.
Placate is 380 feet of stealth.
Smoke Flash has no stealth component.
Arctic Air is -389 feet of stealth vs. players.
[ QUOTE ]
[u]Stealth Buffs/Debuffs[u]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Name Available from Value Note
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grant Invisibility Empowerment -250
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a question the # on the Grant (self) Invis from the Impowerment station. It has to be atleast greater than -300.
The reason I say this is because when I get it with my stalker people that can see me with just Hide on (SR scrapper,
Ninjitsu Stalkers, Ice Tanks)... can't see me with the Empowerment GI+Hide (Similar to Hide+stealth).
So therefore it has to be better than -300 since they have +perception of +800.
Edited before I start to be blamed by a man whom I did.
The game was under maintenance when I tried to recheck stealth toggles before posting.
Virture
Another addition: the Stealth Suppression Field base defense is -1000 feet stealth on up to 10 targets within 40 feet of the item. So, in theory, if you stack Superior Invis and Group Invis, you could remain undetected while standing in the suppression field against players with no +perception.
If this was answered here or elsewhere forgive me, at work, no time for serious searchfu. Can anyone tell me if Shadow Fall + Stealth = PvE ghetto invis, the way SS + Stealth does?
Shadowfall does not work with other forms of stealth powers (Super speed in PvE is an exception).
If you have shadowfall running and turn on Stealth, Shadowfall will turn off (and vice versa).
I've already forgotten about most of you
Anyone know what the -perception value of the new Steath IOs are???
I tried to test it. My Nin stalker (with Danger Sense off) was looking at a regen scrapper with a Stealth IO in SJ in Sirens Call. My map marker was being weird and when I marked his position, it put it 59 ft over his head. I backed up till I couldn't see him and lost him at 88 yrds (264 ft) back with the marker in the air. So if I did my trigonometry right that means I was actually 85 yrds (257 ft) back. Meaning it would be -243... and I though all stealth powers were -390. I need to restest it.
Anyone else tested the new IO stealths?
Paragonwiki says 389' PvP, 35' PvE
Edit: Not that that means it's the real answer, but I'm not sure how else they'd have gotten their numbers but through tests or such things.
Enemy Resistances - Damage, Mez and Defense
Enemy XP Mods
(Drag my avatar into your mp3 player!)
I'm not sure of the numbers, but stacked with Stealth it gives the effect of full invisibility. so it's at least as much as whatever superspeed grants.
Screenshot of my character with Stealth on and one of the +stealth IO's slotted into Sprint.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...3-20-46-23.jpg
I figured it out.
Stealth IOs add 300 ft of stealth (checked it multiple times now).
Cloaking Device add 390 ft, this effectively is 690 ft of stealth combined (Cloak+stealth IO). In PvP base perception is 500, so with a stealth IO and Cloaking Device, you are effectively invisible. BUT, the stealth cap for a hero is 570 ft (at lvl 50, which I confirmed again).
I can't test Super Speed, because it has no stealth component in PvP. But a stealth IO and Super Speed does make you invisible, just like Cloak+SS or /Stealth+SS.
good to know
I have a lvl 37 Energy/Device blaster
ALL his perception comes from his:
Drone (5 slotted 3 tohitt buffs Io, 1 red end, &
(1 IO special +20% perception)
Tactics (4 slotted 1 red end IO, 3 tohitt IO's)
I am not a numbers guy and want to know what my total % of perception is
(including the tohitt buff IO that grants +20% perception)
rectified reticle +perception IO
(also including IR goggles, CM)
And how does this work VS stalkers and what else do I need in order to see them?
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
Answer:
Base Perception = 500 ft
Target Drone = 300 ft
Tactics (lvl 37 blaster) = 205 ft
In BB = 172 ft (Lvl 25)
In SC = 186 ft (Lvl 30)
In WB = 214 ft (Lvl 40)
In RV = 242 ft (Lvl 50)
Recticle IO (20% of base perception) = 100 ft
Total = 1072-1142 (at Lvl 37 = 1105 ft)
Stalker Stealth Cap
In BB (Lvl 25) = 968
In SC (Lvl 30) = 1003
In WB (Lvl 40) = 1073
In RV (Lvl 50) = 1143
***A few Notes***
1. Stalker with Hide + Stealth + Stealth IO has 1190 ft of stealth, which is higher than the cap in every zone.
2. Also remember that the Hero perception cap is only 10ft greater than the Stealth cap. So you are over the cap in BB, SC and WB, but under it in RV.
3. So in BB, SC, and WB you can see Stalkers within 10 ft... not much time to dodge an AS. In RV they are invisible till they strike.
GREAT but you didn't include IR goggles or CM 
Would that make a difference?
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
It's been a while since someone posted here, but I was wondering if anyone had tested the stealth numbers for SuperSpeed. The generally accepted wisdom for a while was that stealth + superspeed = invisibility. Just curious as to how close to accurate that was. I don't have SS on any of my toons but was interested in acquiring it if it's an effective combo in PvP.
Thanks