Not once, not twice, but three times...
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-01-10 16:26 in Developers' Corner
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And doesn't a 4 person group create a +1 level modifier anyway? Or is that 6 person?
Just Oi Oi.
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It's six, and that seems to have disspeared with I6. An 8-man mission does not produce a +2 foe modifier in CoV. Nor does a six man team produce a +1 modifier.
If they haven't done this in CoH yet, I assume it's coming.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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And badge people, killing LT-grade Fake Nemesis in Heroic missions counts towards the badge, doesn't it?
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And how many heroic solo missions spawn more than 2-3 Fake Nems at Lt level??
You'd have to run 33-50 solo heroic Nemesis missions each with 3 Nem Fakes to get the badge...
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Why on earth are you even bringing that up?
The point is that the rank-shifting mechanic shouldn't affect whether the foes count for a badge.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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All I've asked for is:
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-A mechanism to prevent me from spending the time to gather the appropriate group to spawn an AV only to have someone drop mid-mission and thus prevent the AV from spawning when we reach the point where the team size is checked to determine if an AV spawns.
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Doesn't an entire instanced mission spawn at the moment the first team member enteres the mission? If so, it's probably safe to assume that the same would go for the EB/AV status of the opponent. My guess would would be that losing a teammate mid-mission wouldn't have any affect other than forcing everyone else to take up the slack.
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Doesn't an entire instanced mission spawn at the moment the first team member enteres the mission?
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Not any more. Mobs now spawn based on the group composition when you first reveal that spawn of mobs.
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If fighting AV's is the only reason you level up a character why is it a big deal to fight them on Invincible solo?
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Because I can't fight the standard spawns solo on Invincible. Nor do I feel I should be required to in order to face an AV.
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I didn't make my point very clear there. I do agree that fighting spawns on Invincible is hard to the point that is not worth the risk or time. I usually fight on rugged as I find it the most enjoyable setting on average. I was more trying to point out that if you want to fight an AV now or after the changes that will require a team, and if you have a team the Invincible spawns should be more than doable. It will be a pain to force an AV spawn in some cases, but overall I think that will be less annoying that the current system.
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I think the changes allow for more options in play style.
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If you go back to my first post in this thread I explicity stated I'm not asking for these changes to be repealed. I don't like them, but I respect the developer's right to make them. I simply see it as another in a line of decisions made that take the game away from its stated designs and I have never had a good experience with a game that does that.
All I've asked for is:
-Clear mission text so I know in advance what I need to do to ensure I ever see an Elite Boss when I really want to see an AV.
-A significant reward for AVs that is significant even if one is at the level cap
-A mechanism to prevent me from spending the time to gather the appropriate group to spawn an AV only to have someone drop mid-mission and thus prevent the AV from spawning when we reach the point where the team size is checked to determine if an AV spawns.
I don't think any of these requests are unreasonable, hard to program or contrary to the spirit of making the change in the first place.
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The only request I'm not so hot on is the last one. Only because I am assuming/hoping the AV spawn will set when the mission is begun not halfway through it. Overall I am not against any of the ideas presented. But, if the devs decide they want players to be surprised in missions by finding an elite boss/AV then they will be reluctant to make changes to the mission text. Not sure if that's good or bad. As far as rewards go, I could see adding better enhancement drops for AVs. Maybe not HO's that boost 2 attributes per enhancement but maybe one that is more than the current SO max of that type. 40%-45% instead of the 33%. Even with ED many players can see an improvement there and still want to 3 slot some power types.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
Well, your concerns seem reasonable, as do your suggestions. The one about fighting/not fighting an AV if people drops seems a little abusable (start with few people to spawn an Elite Boss, then invite more), but I can see where it's coming from.
But my personal worry is, does that affect ALL AVs? So, the Preatorian counterparts of the surviving six, Dr. Vhazilok, Nemesis, Requiem and so on will transform into Elite Bosses? For one, that ought to make people more heroic, no scratch that, feel stronger, and for another it may be a little demeaning the the baddest of the bad. Regardless, I'm just happy I won't have to put together teams of strangers for a single mission from now on 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I didn't make my point very clear there.
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A common hazzard of text based communication. People accuse me of being "nitpicky" or obsessed with semantics but the fact is without absolute clarity in text you will be misinterpeted and that wastes time and energy for everyone involved.
It's not a problem that will ever be solved, only alleviated. Kind of like game balance.
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I was more trying to point out that if you want to fight an AV now or after the changes that will require a team, and if you have a team the Invincible spawns should be more than doable. It will be a pain to force an AV spawn in some cases, but overall I think that will be less annoying that the current system.
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Ok but I still don't want to kill an Elite Boss, get a mission complete message and suddenly realize I've missed my chance to fight the "real" version of that mob.
And make no mistake, in my mind the AV version will always be the "real" version and I won't feel I can claim I've fought that mob until I face the AV version. With the current system my 38 could at least invite a 50 and pummel the AV into submission (and amazingly, get XP if I kick the 50 after they enter the mission but before we finish the fight - talk about an exploit!) and feel I beat the AV even if I needed serious help to do it.
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Only because I am assuming/hoping the AV spawn will set when the mission is begun not halfway through it.
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If that is true then AVs will spawn differently than regular mobs. You can test this in any mission with an elevator. Clear the first floor and then invite a bunch of people to the group. Once they enter the mission proceed to floor 2. You'll be facing larger spawns appropraite to whomever was in the mission map when you enter the radius where the computer generates mobs for a given spot on the map.
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Nice change. Since I've been [censored] about use of development time with regards to the stealth change, this AV change is what I call a great use of development time.
And a question for Positron. Whats a World Spawn?
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A World Spawn is a spawn that takes place in the game-world, not in an instanced mission.
The Hamidon Mitochondria are an example of an Arch-villain World Spawn, and thus will not be reduced in any way by this change.
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I'm assuming the monster spawns are also unaffected, but just for giggles, what would you consider the Kronos Ambush to be?
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Kronos is a giant monster isnt he? He'd be unaffected by these changes then. Hmmm. I wonder if the Adamastor in the portal mission is classed as a monster or AV. They might need to reclassify him for this change to work on him.
You know, while this change may need some tweaking with what numbers are required to spawn an AV, I really like it. AV fights can be tedious affairs (Shadowhunter, Madame of Mystery etc). It will also let people solo, if they choose, lower level story arc AVs like Doc. Vahz and Maestro.
Speculation: The reward for AVs will be a new type of enhancement: AV'os. People will farm them and the boards will asplode. 
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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I didn't make my point very clear there.
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A common hazzard of text based communication. People accuse me of being "nitpicky" or obsessed with semantics but the fact is without absolute clarity in text you will be misinterpeted and that wastes time and energy for everyone involved.
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well i was being sarcastic to an extent
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And make no mistake, in my mind the AV version will always be the "real" version and I won't feel I can claim I've fought that mob until I face the AV version. With the current system my 38 could at least invite a 50 and pummel the AV into submission (and amazingly, get XP if I kick the 50 after they enter the mission but before we finish the fight - talk about an exploit!) and feel I beat the AV even if I needed serious help to do it.
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When I need to do this I do not feel I beat the AV but simply dealt with the annoying mission. A good long hard Elite Boss fight is much more enjoyable and requires more skill IMO than having a buddy defeat the AV for me.
And I would assume if the devs change how AV spawn they spend some time and do it right. Avoid the issue where you can kick everyone off the team, go to the last floor, and reinvite for an Elite Boss battle. This type of thing is a problem now, how missions spawn and populate and has been in CoH for a long time. It used to be if a mission was too hard a team could have 1 or 2 people begin and then reinvite and complete it that way. Balance is a destionation that very well may never truely be achieved, it's the effort that counts and I think the devs are honeslty working in the right direction.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
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Again, all of this will be solved by adding explicit text to the mission briefing before I accept the mission. Cryptic has a mixed record of doing this on mission text for AVs, simultaneous clickies etc. so I want to start asking for it NOW.
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That sounds completely fair.
Folks, he's not complaining about the change; he just wants them to let him know when an AV is coming up so he can prepare to face it on the terms he wants to face them on, just like knowing when you go to a PvP contact they implicitly state that PvP is involved. Did I read you right Lothart?
If so, I agree, and I wouldn't mind if the same red warnings! were on AV fights either... some of the descriptions aren't exactly clear, and you don't know until you get to it (with some of my toons, I would want an AV, on others, I wouldn't dream of it!).
I wouldn't mind the same treatment with getting timed missions, or missions that immediately jump to timed missions after you complete it, or "multi-blinkie-at-the-same-time" missions.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
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Excellent.
It's still troubling that the AV swap and the stealth nerf weren't flagged as problematic in whatever Cyrptic meeting spawned them, but better late than never.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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First...I confirm that we're working on right now (as in pohsyb in the next room) to add CoV costume parts into CoH if you own both games....
Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf. The reason why: many well reasoned posts. It's that simple. You guys pointed out the problems.
AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!
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You have just made sooo many people's day.
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First...I confirm that we're working on right now (as in pohsyb in the next room) to add CoV costume parts into CoH if you own both games....
Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf. The reason why: many well reasoned posts. It's that simple. You guys pointed out the problems.
AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!
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You have just made sooo many people's day.
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Folks, he's not complaining about the change; he just wants them to let him know when an AV is coming up so he can prepare to face it on the terms he wants to face them on, just like knowing when you go to a PvP contact they implicitly state that PvP is involved. Did I read you right Lothart?
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Well...make no mistake I am complaining about the changes.
I just am not calling for them to be repealed (wait, can you repeal something in advance?) and suggesting some ways that I will complain less about the changes.
"uber"guy regarding fake neme comment
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Why on earth are you even bringing that up?
The point is that the rank-shifting mechanic shouldn't affect whether the foes count for a badge.
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The thing is Fake Nemesis requires 100 to get the badge. It would be impossible to get enough nemesis missions soloing to get the badge. You'd have to fight them in the streets or team with people thereby making them bosses and they're bosses on the street. Yes Lts are easier to defeat but harder to find.
This change hands people 11 easily defeatable Preats each of which puts you one step closer to a badge and an accolade, one of which is a badge unto himself. The badge/accolade now require half the work to get that they did before. You don't get a badge for beating a single fake nemesis or even 15 fake nems so your comparing of a fake neme badge and its difficulty with that of a praet badge is off.
There are 3 badges that before were difficult to get. Now they're childs play, atleast for "certain" ATs and "certain" builds.
Oh I know if we're giving badges out that previously required you to beat an AV now only require you to beat an EB then repeal the giant monster coding on Kraken and Paladin Construction and Jack of Irons and Pumpkin King and make their levels appropriate to the zones in which they spawn so everyone can solo them too!
Its a bad change that can't do anything but cheapen the value and the sense of accomplishment that is normally associated with those badges, and its all to shut up soloers whining because of nerfs that they can't solo AVs anymore and they just refuse to bite the bullet and team.
For the 39 and under levels this is fine but for 40 plus, you need to bite the bullet and team. 40 plus the only content in CoH up to that point not soloable is TFs/trials, even those could be soloed to a point. Its crazy that one of the few things in the game that required a team and encouraged people to actually socialize is being neutered because of people whining they didn't wanna move beyond 40 and group because of them. What you gonna do now when you hit 50? Same thing you've been doing when you got AV missions piled on and refused to group: Start an Alt or quit. Now you'll just get 7-10 more levels before doing so.
Just another useless and unnecessary change they wasted time on when they could have been working on fixing one of the many Unlisted Known Issues (known only to the devs apparently because when we do something and we don't get rewarded and its a "known issue" they just tell us too bad its a known issue and we can't give rewards) and even the few listed Known issues.
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I wonder if the Adamastor in the portal mission is classed as a monster or AV.
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He's an AV... did it last week with some buddies
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
I think the AV change is fantastic. I am lucky if I get more than two hours of play a night. Most of my SG is on the east coast, and I'm on the west. It takes at least a half hour to get a pick up group together, and there is a good chance it will suck. I'm currently trying to slog my way through the Maria Jenkins arc because I REALLY want to do the content.
This change makes me very very happy.
And it doesn't hurt anyone. If you still want an AV, it's really easy to get one. Whining that something is now easier for someone else than it was for you is just selfish.
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And it doesn't hurt anyone. If you still want an AV, it's really easy to get one.
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I fail to see how it is "easy" to memorize every mission in the game in advance in case it might spawn an AV so I know I have to form a large team OR raise my difficulty to a level I can't deal with just to SEE an AV.
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I fail to see how it is "easy" to memorize every mission in the game in advance in case it might spawn an AV so I know I have to form a large team OR raise my difficulty to a level I can't deal with just to SEE an AV.
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A valid argument as to why they should mark these somehow... I know the devs like having them as a surprise, but now there's no reason to leave it that way. EBs are fairly common (more common than AVs, anyway) - so they could feasibly tag the mission on the contact's screen with something like, "There's a chance that you'll be running into one of Paragon's 'Most Wanted' villians, Envoy of Shadows/Maestro/DecafCuppaJo."
And under the current system I have to spend half an hour to get a team wipe because I found an idiot blaster who can't control aggro, or take a week to finish an arc so I can get my SG together.
Then if I want to do Maria Jenkins, I have to do this for every single mission.
Personally, I prefer to have your "problem" Lothart.
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If you are going to weave theories and spin falsehood, you atleast need to start somewhere close to the facts.
"ED" was sugjested by players off and on going all the way back to Issue 3, maybe ever Issue 2.
Well before I5, HO's, and Arena PvP.
Care to try again? I think you dropped you hat, Ath.
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Diminishing returns was suggested prior to I5 and its nerfs as a possible solution to balance issues as it was fairly clear by then that the devs were planning to make major changes (although I'm not sure everyone expected what came in I5). Most if not all of the suggestion posts I'd seen did _not_ include I5-like nerfs and were based on the assumption that the base efficacy of powers would be substantially higher than it was post-I5. So, I don't see why you're accusing me of being a liar. The fact that diminishing returns systems had been mentioned earlier doesn't make what I said false.
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First...I confirm that we're working on right now (as in pohsyb in the next room) to add CoV costume parts into CoH if you own both games....
Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf. The reason why: many well reasoned posts. It's that simple. You guys pointed out the problems.
AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!
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A question, sir.
Is the elite boss going to have the same name as the archvillain? Or will that elite boss be some no-name wannabe?
I "think" this is a good change.
I think it means less forced teaming which is a good thing. It also means less forced teaming which might be a good way to get people to learn to team. Whatever, I think its a bonus to people who want to solo or play at odd hours when getting a team together is a big hassle. More choice is why I think its a good thing.
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AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.
In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!
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H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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I'm not saying that I think AV's are too easy, just that the game itself is. I base this on my own experience in playing the game as well as the sheer number of people that I find at high levels that still have no idea what they're doing.
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That might be any number of things, though - blind chance, PLing, unfamiliarity with different modes of play or other ATs. Ask defenders and controllers how many people just automatically assume that both ATs are always going to have healing ability.
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I have never, ever had a character spend any significant time in debt that didn't come from a specific event. I have reached the debt cap exactly one time since October of 2004, which was from a failed Hydra mission. I guess that I can also say that I've hit it a few times after I got to 50 and stopped caring if I died, but I don't think that counts. My wife also plays, and she hasn't ever been in this largely mythical "perma-debt" either.
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Okay, do me a favor, if you please. I'm not disputing your experiences, so please don't refer to mine as mythical, okay? They happened.
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You might argue that maybe I'm some gaming God (I'll accept that - no need to correct you there ) or that I min-max all my builds (my 50 has two travel powers and only got rid of Whirlwind because of ED), but my wife is anything but. She hadn't played a game since Super Mario Bros. and only picks powers based on their description and/or the advice of whoever is online at that moment.
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I'm not assuming anything other than that your experiences differed sharply from mine.
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I contend that if you're spending that long in debt, you're doing something wrong. It's time to change up your strategy, change your build, or accept that the No Pets Mastermind you're using nothing but pool powers on simply isn't going to make it to 50 solo.
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Okay, I'll cop to the possibility and/or likelihood that when my ill/emp controller hit the caps (when I wasn't purposefully going for the debt badges or building debt to avoid outleveling contacts), I was screwing up somewhere. I don't believe this to be the case, but it was the better part of a year ago. I can't say for certain.
What, precisely, would you recommend to a warshade facing Banished Pantheon? Between the mezzes, the high volume of quantums, the mobs heavily resisting my every attack, and the fact that death shamans could summon minions faster than I could put them down, the debt cap came fast. I can't spam inspirations every fight, and I shouldn't expect other players to do my fighting for me.
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I'll admit that I'm perhaps a bit spoiled since I never have to contend with pick up groups unless I'm just feeling social, but even when I did I didn't have the problems I hear other peolple describing. They're simply not what I've encountered in my rather lengthy and varied experience (this may also be because I won't stay on a bad team and am happy to kick morons). This includes standing over my wife's shoulder as she plays with random teams asking her over and over again why she's still on the team.
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While I'm happy for you, this is solely your experience, and no one else's. I can't say that either yours or mine are closer to the norm, only that my experiences have tended to be overwhelmingly negative, to the point where I prefer not to use PUGs if at all possible.
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And I know I can still get the AV's if I want to, Uberguy. My concern is that we'll have even more people rushing through content and then whining about not having anymore contacts until they reach a certain level. A lot of people I know that play solo all the time are already having this problem in CoV. Big team=more enemies=more XP, so if you team more you'll end up leveling without being as likely to run out of missions.
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Assuming you get a good team, and assuming you're not trying to hit as much as possible. Early in CoV, if you want to see all thearcs, you pretty much need to solo in debt. It's easy to get in the habit of trying to speed through contacts before realizing that they don't last as long, experience-wise, before cutting you off.
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AV's are the only type of forced teaming that I have any kind of approval of. Double and triple clicking glowies is tedious and I hate hate hate hate hate those missions. An AV that you can try to kill yourself and then have to call in the troops to help out? I think that's a good time.
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Personally, I prefer strike/task forces and trials for this end.
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Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I seem to be the only one who thinks this, so I'll concede to the wishes of the masses. I'm just making sure the dissenting voice is heard.
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Fair enough, man. While I do disagree with you pretty much across the board, I'm not going to fault you for having a different view. You're also not alone - I know at least one other person had similar thoughts.
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If fighting AV's is the only reason you level up a character why is it a big deal to fight them on Invincible solo?
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Because I can't fight the standard spawns solo on Invincible. Nor do I feel I should be required to in order to face an AV.
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I think the changes allow for more options in play style.
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If you go back to my first post in this thread I explicity stated I'm not asking for these changes to be repealed. I don't like them, but I respect the developer's right to make them. I simply see it as another in a line of decisions made that take the game away from its stated designs and I have never had a good experience with a game that does that.
All I've asked for is:
-Clear mission text so I know in advance what I need to do to ensure I ever see an Elite Boss when I really want to see an AV.
-A significant reward for AVs that is significant even if one is at the level cap
-A mechanism to prevent me from spending the time to gather the appropriate group to spawn an AV only to have someone drop mid-mission and thus prevent the AV from spawning when we reach the point where the team size is checked to determine if an AV spawns.
I don't think any of these requests are unreasonable, hard to program or contrary to the spirit of making the change in the first place.