Crafting and Statesman's misunderstanding
By
Acetylene_Torch,
Posted on: 2005-12-02 06:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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People here tend to argue that crafting would be boring. I suppose that CoH/CoV has lured exactly the kind of players who would find that boring.
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Yes. And now people who want the things all those other games have are coming to "our" game and demanding that these things be added, so as to make "our" game just like all the rest. See how folks might get a little touchy and defensive?
I've already seen this happen with PvP. I don't want to see Skinner-box crafting (peck the button, get a food pellet) too.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something.
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Skills don't necessarily have to be "click" based, and even if they are, there are many ways to introduce risk into such things.
* If you fail to unlock the door or crack the safe, an alarm is triggered.
* If you fail to correctly read the ancient text, you misfire a spell.
* If you fail to pacify the wild beast, it bites you in the butt.
* If you fail to correctly identify the poison, your antidote accelerates the damage
There really are many, many, many more examples of how skills could be successfully introduced into missions and even into open zones as random spawns.
* skills could lead to finding clues that unlock a special mission
* skills could be used to slowly costomize the fx/colors of one's powers
* skills should have a direct link to one's origin (i.e. computer skills should be easier for Tech/Science while Arcane should be easier for Magic/Natural)
Please, please ask us questions, Statesman. You will find so much creative energy here you'll have more material than you know what to do with.
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Great ideas. The thing is, many of these would require new missions or updating old missions. Nothing wrong with that, but changing/adding enough missions to justify a Skill system puts it a year away in the future at least.
That said, get cracking! 
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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Heh... You haven't seen my computer, have you? :P Though, I shouldn't complain (much) - it may be a 5 year old computer, but I've had worse and scarier...
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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Hey there! We've missed you.
First off. I'm pretty happy with the way you've put creafting in the game. As an SG related thing it works really well since there's almost always someone in the SG who actually likes that kind of activity, letting those of us who don't contribute to the SG in other ways. I know you will be pressured to expand it in many ways and I hope the ways in which you expand it continue to offer the outlet to those who want it without infringing on those who don't.
Skills is something I'd still like to see, and let me echo the comment that if you open up a good conversation about them you will get some pretty creative input. I've heard you say you've tried more than one skill system and that they failed to be "fun". I can believe that.
Someone started a thread to try and come up with a skills system. Please, take the time to post what you want the system to accomplish, what you tried and why it failed and you'll be sure to see a lot of good ideas.
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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I don't know that Statesman thinks that, but I know *I* do.
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In the end though its not the action of building which is what people enjoy, its the gathering and the outcome of the crafting they like.
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As far as generalizations go, I can see where you're coming from.
But why just accept it? There's no reason a good game designer couldn't stop and design a way for the production to be as fun as the gathering and the end result. Why not make the building fun? (And btw, I've never felt the gathering to be anything more than a chore. Admittedly, I've barely experienced that type of MMORPG -- certainly I'm not the expert that a lot of people around here, are. But the reason I'm not is precisely because I consider that kind of thing tedious.)
-RC
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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Are you kidding? Of course there's risk! I risk that the *next* time I have to click on something, it's the time I snap and set out to blow up the server farm so that the game can never tell me to click on something ever again.
Look, this cute little 'risk reward' thing is so silly. The only 'risk' is to OLD OLD OLD PEOPLE who might *conceivably* be SO limited that they actually can't operate a computer and make it through all the time-burning tasks we normally are required to perform.
There has not been a SINGLE thing in this game that has presented me 'risk' in the entire time I've played it. Other than in the sense that I 'risked' spending 20 minutes to accomplish something which might take as little as 15.
Statesman, *you* are a tremendous hippy when it comes to this risk and reward thing. We are not finding food for our family on the serengeti. We are trying to have fun. If you can make something that's fun that doesn't involve risk you've made... OMGOSH! The game that's already here! It's fun and involves no risk!
I mean seriously. Is Dating fun because of the risk of rejection? Is sex fun because there's a small chance that your lover will lose his erection and you'll spiral into a sense of depression over whether you're not sexy enough or what you did wrong, or whether you just don't emotionally connect? Is raising a child fun because it could DIE?! Is it fun to play with toys because a bully might come over and kick you and steal them?! HUH?>! IS THAT FUN!? YOU CREEPY SADIST!!!!
anyway. I think crafting is a timesink that's unfair to the people who get into it. But it would be nice if there were some more puzzle-like things in the game. They don't have to be riddles or limerics or something silly like that. They can be like the lock-picking minigames in Theif or Splinter Cell.
Honestly, ATs and certain origins may have use for me on my tem if their skills allowed us ti get NON-Single origin Drops or Origin-Specific, non purcasheble drops in my missions.
Why couldn't the skills system allow for better teaming in that respect? i.e, a predominatly Natural team gets more Natural drops based on the team structure rather than the Origin of the AT?
I don't see why something like this should be a progressionally developable skill of clash with the powerscale system.
How about having skills that provide these qualities to teams (especially in the wake of ED):
1. 5% to hit buff
2: 5% damage buff
3. 5% mez buff
4. 5% resistance buff
5. 5% heal/debuff modification
None of these would break the dynamice of the game if stacked on a team of 8 and will encourage both teaming and linduce a level of the "old" hero vibe that we all felt prior to ED.
Are these skills? In my opinion, yes. Do these contribute to the welfare of the game? Also I say yes. At least give us a chance to experience your viosion of fun with one that is consistent with ours.
Just say NO, to crafting, camping, looting and unique item drops. The issues these cause have practically ruined every Other mmo I have ever played. They are intentional time sinks to encourage us to spend time clicking, camping, or looking for the drops.
The way the game handles salvage encourages me that this "Skill" system could be a good thing. But, Having played since coh beta, I would rather have some high level content!!!
Just say no to crafting and Yes to Content!
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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Well, taking your example of the computer... Why not involve some sort of min-game, which if successfully completed provides a reward - if a 'wrong move' is made, a guard spawn materialises and moves to attack (only alerting the player once the first hit strikes - also making this safer in groups).
Since certain recent developments in the game industry (*cough*nge*cough*), there is a concern that some game publishers feel there is little value and too much cost in running 'deep' games.
Trouble is, deep games are what keep many of engrossed for days/weeks/months/years. My only real issue with CoH/CoV is it's lack of deep content - skills would be a good start.
I'd also like to see other more social content which encourages SG participation... I'm one of those people that HATES crafting (don't EVER let me see a Tailor or armorsmith hero/villain 
), but this does not mean that all social content should be excluded.
Make the bases mean something more - fuzzy possibilities include having a villain SG select a 'plot' from their supercomputer, which created a string of many generated *parallel* missions (gather intel, rob group x, kill boss y), the completion of which would perhaps end in a grand finale, which then gives a temporary buff/power to all SG members. Etc etc.
But what if you are crafting things which either are content or unlock new comtent? Then you have the best of both worlds.
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But what if you are crafting things which either are content or unlock new comtent? Then you have the best of both worlds.
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The reason why a lot of us don't like crafting is that it isn't fun in itself, at least not in most MMOs. The result is cool, but the 10 minutes (or hours) of sitting there doing the same thing again and again is boring. There's just no skill to it. Making the reward cooler doesn't help, doing a repetitive task that doesn't challenge you for a reward is what factory workers do. The reward makes you do it, but it still isn't enjoyable in itself.
Salvage has worked out differently from that because the only "process" is the stuff that we were doing anyway. We just go out and do missions and fight enemies like normal, but every once in awhile we get to go select our prize from the worktable. An invention system like that wouldn't really be objectionable to anyone.
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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Even if you can't make a complete skills system out of something like this, I think it'd still be an interesting feature to see in missions. It'd be a good twist which would make the missions more interactive if you actually had to hack computers or unlock doors rather than just clicking on them.
For example, it could be similar to Warburg. There are 4 hackers in a Crey mission. 3 of them are good, and 1 is anarchistic and likely won't help you. However, you can only bring two to the computer. If you bring the wrong combonation back, the alarm sounds and you start getting ambushed and have to try again. If you succeed, you get to unlock the next room and continue on your way.
Another example would be making glowies that work sort of like riddles. Maybe in a Council mission you have to figure out which Council member has been brainwashed and which is the real leader. You go through the mission picking up clues which help you. If you take out the right guy, you succeed. If you take out the wrong guy, the actual guy makes a break for the exit, and you have to retrack (while getting ambushed) in an attempt to get him before he escapes.
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all i want is being able to use salvage to make enhancements. Not only is it a great idea to get more people into SG mode and salvage, but it solves the infleunce problem people complain about with not being able to buy all the enhancements they want.
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/signed. I've written up about four systems for how this could work, salvage makes this easy.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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OK, scrap skills and builds a true crafting system around salvage. Crafting professions:
<ul type="square">[*] Tailor (new costume piece tokes that unlock new things at Icon/Facemaker)
[*] Furnituremaking (personal bases and SG bases)
[*] Alchemist (magic), Geneticist(mutant), Engineer(tech), Drill Sergeant(nat), Researcer(Sci) (Enhancements)[/list]
Start there and see how it works.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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See for me skills is not about an enhancement everytime I click a computer. It is about making the timer work faster, getting additional clues that could spawn side stories and arcs or unlock contacts. Skills is about slipping in undetected so there are no ambushes or alarms in a mission. It is about being able to find an enemies weak spot and defeating them just a little faster.
It isn't just about enhancements. In fact, I think the game needs to get away from enhancements as a reward. There is nothing special about them, everyone has the same ones. You can buy them in stores all around the city and get them from defeats. You are right in that rewards need to be in line with the risks but you need to rethink your ideas of rewards. If you truly want a lootless game then stop thinking in terms of loot.
A computer cracking skill this halves the time needed to get information is much more fun than an enhancement. New leads and customizard story arcs though skills is more fun than an enhancement. Stop thinking video games and think role-playing games.
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Ya know, if the skills system is going to make people long for crafting, I'm glad it's on hiatus.
One of the best things about CoH is that there is no crafting. Therefore no farming and camping and all the other bad things related to that. Look what happened when they added a single uberloot item (HO's)...
If they do get forced into adding crafting, or crafting-like junk, it better never give an in-game reward that is at all useful for *anything*. Or if it does, anything that can be crafted better be able to be bought at a store. Then the crafters can sit around camping spawns, and the rest of us can continue to enjoy the game mechanics.
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Ummm... Crafting is alive an well in CoH and CoV. What do you think all that salvage and the worktables in bases are for?
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People here tend to argue that crafting would be boring. I suppose that CoH/CoV has lured exactly the kind of players who would find that boring.
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Yes. And now people who want the things all those other games have are coming to "our" game and demanding that these things be added, so as to make "our" game just like all the rest. See how folks might get a little touchy and defensive?
I've already seen this happen with PvP. I don't want to see Skinner-box crafting (peck the button, get a food pellet) too.
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Skills and Crafting are too different things. I see skills as a way to improve your character's abilities. Something you really can't do in this game outside of combat. Hack the computer faster, disarm the bomb faster, etc... Risks can be built in. So instead of just a simple click and the bomb is disarmed, there is a failure chance added and if you fail it explodes causing a minor bit of damage. etc...
I for one had never played any other MMOs before this one. I saw my wife Crafting in EQ2 and thought it was a waste of time. Skills however is not that. That is what he was talking about in Ask Statesman Answers... Skills. Not Crafting.
Crafting has already been introduced to the game in a very simplified fashion that doesn't make it boring.
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How about having skills that provide these qualities to teams (especially in the wake of ED):
(snip suggestions @ 5% each)
None of these would break the dynamice of the game if stacked on a team of 8 and will encourage both teaming and linduce a level of the "old" hero vibe that we all felt prior to ED.
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Okay - if they implemented that, then what real incentive is there to the Items of Power? A bunch of people who run together all the time could just have these instead?
As COH/COV stands (and I *liked* crafting in WoW), I don't want to see anything that is supposed to be seen as optional be turned into (by the players) as a mandatory. I like the salvage/SG system as is, because you don't have to particiapate in it, and if you do (regardless of actual level of interest) it's done passively (unless you're higher level and gunning for prestige). Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't most of the non-pvp items for SG's offer the players items of convenience rather than an actual, PVE advantage?
While the idea of crafting and whotnot has its appeals in other games, it's not something I want to see in COH/COV. All the things I can see crafting can be bought by contacts or stores (insp's and enhancements) around town or as goodies for doing certain missions (temp powers). If we can make those, then why bother with the missions? And quite frankly, I doubt the player base, if given a taste of making these things, will settle for making inferior versions of things...
Quite frankly, I like the fact I know that I can look at most any toon at my level and know that I'm (in theory) on equal footing. And that when I hit level 50 (with the exception of players with HO's) I'm just as uber as everyone else. My accomplishment is not diminished because I didn't spend 100+ hours to find/make the best items, enhancements, etc., as opposed to my friends who play WoW. I dislike comments like "the game really starts at level 60," and the fact they do raid upon raid upon raid to get the rarest items so they can, hopefully, make themselves level 60++ (to use COH terms ). If crafting can come up with better stuff than can be bought/dropped, then that, to me, takes away from that "equality." Those with a source for those items (lets face it - crafters will not equally populate all servers, nor will they be equally be represented across all levels or ATs) will have a leg up on those without. And I don't want the broadcast channel clogged up with "Salvage please" or "Free item buffing for skill" or "Will join SG for workbench."
If you want crafting, sorry, I don't think its a good idea. And you don't want a half-baked implementation thats going to creak and crack through 2-4 issues before its "right." And no matter what how the Devs do, they're not going to get it "right" because whatever they bring in won't be able to compare with the more mature crafting/economy systems out there, which is where expectations are going to be at, because they can't/won't want to release that majorly changes the flavor of the current COH/COV gaming experience.
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How about having skills that provide these qualities to teams (especially in the wake of ED):
(snip suggestions @ 5% each)
None of these would break the dynamice of the game if stacked on a team of 8 and will encourage both teaming and linduce a level of the "old" hero vibe that we all felt prior to ED.
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Okay - if they implemented that, then what real incentive is there to the Items of Power? A bunch of people who run together all the time could just have these instead?
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Not that I agree with the poster you're replying to, but the real reason to acquire Items of Power is solely to open yourself up to being raided and to raiding others' bases. The small percentage of a buff given by them is insignificant for a constructive purpose while playing, but the idea of being able to steal a few and then more through raiding other heroes or villains bases is what the motivation behind the Cathedral and Items of Power is.
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Ummm... Crafting is alive an well in CoH and CoV. What do you think all that salvage and the worktables in bases are for?
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One could argue that, but is there an associated skill to it? Can a level 1 player make something just as easily as a level 50?
(Prestige cost +Salvalge Components + Facilities + Recipe) - Risk of failure due to lack of proficiency = Giving somebody stuff to make something for you
If you entered a skill into the equation, either its a yes/no proposition ("I can't make that.") like a Traps or Devices power, items will have varying levels of quality due to creator's level ("Well, of course it isn't that great, the player who made it was only level xy."), or it becomes a gamble ("Well, I've got a 75% chance of successfully making that item -but I'll lose all my stuff if I fail").
The first thing is the problem "at what point can somebody make something?" The you run into balancing and later rebalancing issues ("Well, we brought this out in Issue X, tweaked it in Issue Y, and changed everything in Issue Z."). And we all know how much the forum-going player base likes changes they percieve as a nerf.
Secondly, if quality made depends on player's level, then that will make stuff from lower level players undisirable (players will want as good as they can get, so why settle?).
Thirdly, if the crafting system is like WoW's for example (where there is a skill, and skill prerequisites to make an item), that would require stats to be shown, which devs seems to have an aversion to showing (and I'm fine with that - I don't want this to be a numbers game). Also, it doesn't follow the SG/recipe model, which puts all the risk/grind in obtaining salvage, not actual creation.
Jack - True. But then, you can have a base raid with a consenting SG at any time, too.
One of my biggest worries is that the crafting/buffing suggestion referrenced will lead to people not getting onto teams if they don't have it.
"Welcome to the team GenericHero234!"
"Hey. Let's get bad guys!"
"Oh, do you have xyz buffing item?"
"Uhm. No."
"How about abc buffing item?"
"Uhm. No."
*kick GenericHero234*
Haves and have nots, optional and "optional." To these things do I fret.
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Ummm... Crafting is alive an well in CoH and CoV. What do you think all that salvage and the worktables in bases are for?
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One could argue that, but is there an associated skill to it? Can a level 1 player make something just as easily as a level 50?
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In its current implementation in this game? Yes... Prestige is shared among a supergroup. You do not need your own personal prestige to place an item. It costs nothing to create. A level one can create any item in the list as long as they have the salvage. With salvage trading, it is quite possible to do this.
In my opinion, SKILLS are about personal character development whereas the CRAFTING in this game is about improving the Group. Too different things. We don't need skills to create uber loot and uber loot is not needed. Skills should be a way to differentiate your character. If you have a character concept where he is a genius computer hacker, you can't realize that in the game right now. With Skills you could. There are many other examples.
People are too caught up in a loot concept as opposed to personal development without the use of items. They wouldn't out balance the game because anyone could learn them. As far as level 50s having more skills than a level 1, that should be the case. You don't expect a first grader to know as much as a 4th year university student.
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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.
What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.
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What if you could use salvage to create things other than stuff for bases for a "crafting" style element?
It wouldn't be implemented like a specific "skill" and anyone could do it. It would work something like combining enhancements. Depending on the thing you want to make (say an enhancement; what it affects- Damage, Acc, etc. and whether you want a TO, DO or SO) and the components you're using (some pieces would work better for some enhancements than others). Now this wouldn't have to just apply a x+y=z formula like enhancements, more spaces for "components" could be added and the more you add, the better the % of making what you want.
This could apply to crafting unique costume pieces, possibly some temp powers (if not creating, how about "recharging" them so they last longer or refill their "# of uses" guage?) etc... though such "products" shouldn't be "tradeable" just like they aren't now. That would prevent people from setting up shop as a "hero merchant", and keep the "loot" factor at a minimal level.
Heck, this might even be where the tech toon could make themselves a jetpack as a cape option if they don't want to add it to the regular menu at Icon 
Making enhancements would be basically something to help them save a little money, but it wouldn't really be an unfair advantage overall, as the salvage they would make them from comes from a drop like enhancements do, and it takes so many components to make the one they want. The only advantage there is that they get to pick what it buffs, unlike a random drop. It could also have a caveat that it would always be even to your level (that would help some toons in those akward levels where getting a drop that gets their enhancements out of the yellow isn't as easy as it looks). This wouldn't be really a "commodity" item either if everyone can do it or buy enhancements at the store anyway...
The reason for this whole suggestion is threefold. First, you're actually putting risk into earning the components, so that fulfills that aspect of it. Second, it would be something for people without access to bases (lacking CoV or just plain lacking the prestige to build a base with everything it needs to have a functioning workshop) to do with the salvage they find, making salvage more "solo" friendly as well. Third, if it were set up like the enhancement system (at least in the final screen) you'd have a percentage chance to make what you want and it either works or it doesn't. Also, like enhancements, you run the risk of it failing and "destroying" some (or all) of the items in the attempt- though I wouldn't nescesarily apply that to the crafted costume pieces (but that's because of how I see it possibly being implimented).
Our SG doesn't have a workshop yet (just got power and control installed in it.. that's the next step) and some of our SG members are full on salvage. I also have friends that don't have CoV; this would be another outlet for all that salvage they keep getting and can't do anything with.
What I suggest would be quick to use, possibly easy to implement, and has a "risk" factor to compensate for it's quick and easy application to make things. If done the way I picture it, creating the unique costume pieces would be fun as well (though that might be time consuming in that you would have to decide what you want to make it look like LOL) My ideas on that process though would be a full post in and of itself, so I'll see how the main idea itself pans out before I even get into that...
Thoughts?
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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In my opinion, SKILLS are about personal character development whereas the CRAFTING in this game is about improving the Group. Too different things. We don't need skills to create uber loot and uber loot is not needed. Skills should be a way to differentiate your character. If you have a character concept where he is a genius computer hacker, you can't realize that in the game right now. With Skills you could. There are many other examples.
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I concur.
Skills should help a character be more of what it is without the powers you have, or gadgets you can make with any kind of "crafting". The hacker's a good point on that, and I agree there are many other examples (detective skills, bomb disarming) Though I would want all the regular missions to be possible by anyone without special skills, but giving them a strong benefit in some circumstances if they are possessed.
This also opens up the possiblity of xp awards that don't involve combat in a lot of missions too.
How about CPR for example? Say there's a mission that you have to "rescue so and so" and when you get to them, they're laying on the ground. Now, if you have CPR, you can use it and "revive" the hostage so they can follow you out normally. If you or someone in your group doesn't have CPR, someone will have to carry them out, and that will reduce their movement speed and recharge on stuff because they would be weighed down by the person they have to protect.
IMHO, skills shouldn't increase powers or even tie into them, but compliment and enhance your ability as a "hero" (the character behind the powers) to complete missions. Someone suggested a "bomb" skill where if it's failed, then it blows up causing some damage. I'm not too keen on it, because if nobody on your team has it, then someone's going to have to eat the floor to continue the mission. Now, on the other hand, I would suggest that it has a bar like it does now, but if you have the skill, all you have to do is click it with no bar to disarm it, making the process faster (maybe even prevent an ambush). Same thing with a "security" style skill. You can still open the safe if you don't have it, but you will set off an alarm and draw an ambush down on you.
Conversely however, I'd like to see some "skill" based missions too. Ones that you can't get through without that skill. Bombs that will blow up if you don't have it (and have a chance even if you do) safes you can't crack unless you have "security" or whatever (and may still set off an alarm depending on how good you are).
These missions would be given by your "teachers" and work kind of like newspaper missions in that they're effectively unlimited (another bonus for having that skill). The dialog would go something like this:
"Hey, "hero" the local athorities just asked me if I could help them with a case needing my special skills. I don't have the time, but I told them I know just the person for the job..."
In fact, those missions could be the way you actually "advance" in that skill. Normal missions wouldn't nescesarily put those skills to the test ("This" is the bomb you need me to diffuse.. how amateur!!) but these would. They'd be assigned by your teachers, which would guarantee that someone capable of fulfilling the mission would be on the team.
If desired, I can list off a few mission perameters that are right off the top of my head for such instances and the skills they'd need.
Thoughts?
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
I'm not sure about Skills, it sounds like a huge massive undertaking, a whole new game almost, to be able to have a big enough variety of skills to satisfy people yet have all of them actually be able to be used in gaining xp or helping complete missions, gain missions, etc...it makes my head spin thinking about it, I'm not surprised it's gotten tabled twice.
As for crafting, we have all the elements needed (salvage as "loot", workbenches, and recipies) all they need to do is:
1. give access to slavage and workbenches to those not in a SG, or in a SG with no base.
2. allow more "personal" items to be crafted, such as enhancements, costume pieces, etc.