Jhakar

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There's an ongoing rumor about a Carnie MM, but frankly I doubt that's gonna happen. We're not that lucky.

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It's not a rumor, yo!!

From ask Statesman:

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Do you seriously think that there's any chance of seeing clown mastermind pets?

Clowns? NEVER. Carnival set, with clowns, strongmen and acrobats? Definitely.

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It is less than a rumour.

States merely highlighted that there was *definitely* a chance in that post - and we've heard nothing since. As we've had quite a lot of attention in I7, I really doubt we'll see anything substantial now (eg. a new pet set) for at least a year.

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Note: Blaster, Corruptor and Mastermind Trip Mines have drastically different percentages. I think this is a Bug -- I think the Corruptor/MM version was skipped when making these changes, or Trip Mine for Villains was increased, and Blasters were skipped. Either way, I'll be making changes to the chances for that in a future update.

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Just please please please be careful about reducing the MM version... We're a pretty low damage class, with next to nothing in the way of hard control, so we need toggle drops in PvP a lot more than the blasters.

I don't know if this is Bodyguard related, but hey - It's a MM problem.

Since I7, robot Protector bots are no longer using their repair ability (in any stance). In another thread, TheDuce has reported that Mercs are not using stimulant/healing either.

Hope this gets fixed before live

Cut back doesn't mean eliminated (Yeah, I read Castle's post). Going on the number of tanks still screaming on the PvP forums about detoggles, and worried that the changes won't be enough, I don't think 'most' people think detoggles are going away.

I suspect they'll be reducing the chance of any single hit detoggling, and in cases where abilities dropped multiple toggles, perhaps only have them drop one.

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uhh..how? if all toggle dropping attacks (except mezzes, of course) are going to stop dropping toggles...what the hell mez does a /ff have? we have a knockback that's ignored by guys with acrobatics, and force bubble, which only repels people out of melee range...controllers can still kick our [censored]

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Perhaps you have read some Dev posts that I haven't (I've been away for a while) - Is there confirmation anywhere that only mezzes will drop toggles now?

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so you're saying we get 3 powers from our secondary that are decent in pvp?

too bad detention field is hated by 99% of the population

and repulsion bomb sounds too funky for most people to even try it out (including me), plus toggle drops are getting nerfed in i7

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Nope. Didn't say that... Just that you have to utilise your soft controls (or primary attacks) if you want to be on the offensive whilst using BG for short periods of time.

Oh, and if you don't take a skill because it 'sounds too funky', then you have far bigger problems.

Edit:

Yes, toggle drops are being nerfed... Guess what, as MMs, we'll still UTTERLY rely on them. As a /FF MM, you're best equipped to take down toggles.

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You are correct in the fact that minions of ALL MMs have their resistance and defenses ignored. What you are blindly overlooking is the fact that other MM secondary sets provide powers that can be used during that combat, either to fight back or to keep yourself and your pets healed. FF doesn't have the offense, or the healing the other sets provide. The one thing it is SUPPOSED to provide is defense, and now it doesn't even do that. So I'm not exactly in the same situation, am I?

As for your comment about getting other group members...yes, I'll definately be doing that...but it doesn't change the inequity of FF with regard to BG as it is currently being defined, does it?

Please address the point, don't try to side track it.

Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice

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I think the previous few posters have made the point quite nicely actually - you have plenty you can be doing (in the way of soft controls) to hold up the enemy for the (very) short period you should be relying on BG.

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Hey um...hope This gets answered.

But is this only while the Henchmen are set to the defensive mode.....or does this also apply to when they are set to passive mode?

The reason i ask....is becasue it doesnt sound to good for only the defensive option since it works the exact same way as aggressive but with a smaller radius....passive at least i could be sure they would be next to me or fairly close and most likely within the radius of it to work.

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Only whilst in Defensive + Follow mode.

Defensive is nothing like Aggressive. Pets will not automatically engage foes that are not attacking - they will respond to enemies that do attack within a small radius.

This is better than having BG only in Passive mode. If it was restricted to Passive, your Pets would not attack back, meaning you only have your own weapons to fight back with if you want the benefit of Bodyguards (if you were to order your pets to attack, you'd lose the BG bonus).

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Let me point out another flaw in your argument. If you put your pets on defensive and run away... guess what? You are taking your supremecy with you but not your pets. They will stay and fight. In addition consider this one. Your pets are on defensive, you are on a team, one of your teammates gets attacked... your pets run off. I am not sure if this sort of behavior is a bug or not since it seems to happen infrequently but does so more in PvP. How many MMs have been buffing their pets only to have them run off over the horizon because some teammate is getting attacked far away... it has happened enough for me that when I am spawning and buffing in PvP I put my pets on passive or aggressive to avoid the "defensive" behavior which seems to include teammates... and we all know soloing with a MM is suicide in PvP.

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First issue - hit the follow/def button again, and the pets will come running. They'll keep doing that until you get hit - after which you press the button again... rinse and repeat.

I totally agree that the Pet AI has a LOT of work that needs doing. My biggest bugbear with the situation at the moment is the range at which pets will respond to you being attacked whilst under a follow/def stance... The enemy has to be virtually on TOP of you before the pets respond. I'm pretty sure this was set originally to prevent AFK XPing, but could use a big tweak for PvP zones.

Finally, on the PFF nerf - yes, a 2 min cooldown just for MMs sucks - I have a feeling this might have been done *because* of BG, where theoretically it could have enabled MMs to be supertanks (when the pets get low, through up PFF, have the pets healed by team, drop PFF, repeat), but it is odd that this was done now before any kind of player testing has taken place.

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I'm not asking to "sit there in complete and utter safety laughing your [censored] off at the enemy ". I'm asking that my secondary have SOME EFFECT on the combat. You are traps, you have things you can do that will effect the outcome of the fight....you can fight BACK using your secondary. My secondary is supposed to effect the outcome of a fight by allowing my pets to have increased longevity. THAT is what FF is all about...not hiding in my PFF as you suggest. I don't want to use PFF all the time, and I couldn't even if I did since the nerf. You tell me to run away....if I do that I lose the protection of my pets since they can never keep up with me...so the only real solution you are offering is....if I am attacked, put up PFF and run.

Again...Every other secondary for MMs is useful with regard to bodyguard. The ONLY real purpose of FF is to extend the life expectancy of my groupmates and minions....Bodyguard as it stands will bypass the entire purpose of my secondary.

Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice

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Whats the problem? Your bubbles do exactly what they've always done... End of story.

Under the VERY situational 'oh crap' BG useage, you face the same penalties that all of do, namely that pets get no def or res mitigation of shared damage... But then BG is saving your bacon where you'd normally be toast. If you need to remain under BG for more than a tiny period, you'd have been long dead anyway.

FF is much more group oriented secondary - and its benefits to group members remain unchanged. If your pets are attacked directly, then your bonuses apply - if *you* are being attacked, and order pets into a BG formation, you're in the same situation as any of us - you have a very short amount of leeway now that you should utilise to stop being attacked. And yes, you still have PFF.

Your choice of secondary makes you automatically more suited to group PvP - BG in this situation gives you enough time for group members to help divert the attention of the attackers.

I suggest you group up more.

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Against AoE attacks...MAYBE. But we still lack any way to fight back effectively (forcebolt hardly counts) we still don't have a way to keep our pets alive, and remember, AoE attacks are a MINORITY of the attacks in the game. The large majority of what people use in PvP are single target. Knowing you can pump damage through the MM and kill the pets easier and faster than attacking the pets themselves (even with AoE attacks) why should anyone every bother attacking a pet? As I said before, Traps, Poison, even Trick Arrow can fight back....Dark Miasma can heal....FF get to sit there and watch our pets die, because our bubbles are IGNORED, and the protection we provide to ourselves is laughable.

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Ok, don't take this as a flame

You seem to be complaining that you have no attacks, and having picked up a supporting secondary (FF) as opposed to a more offensive one (traps/DM/Poison) have little you can offer the fight yourself if you are personally under attack...

Well... Newsflash. That was always going to be the case.

BG is NOT a '100% fix all, sit there in complete and utter safety laughing your [censored] off at the enemy whilst he ineffectively plinks at you whilst pets kill him' solution.

BG should be used as an emergency buffer period, where you attempt to place yourself in an advantageous situation - ie. where the enemy is no longer frickin shooting you.

The role of the MM in PvP has not changed - we're never going to be a class that can (or should) stand there toe to toe with a DD class knocking lumps out of each other until one drops. BG should buy you time, and help remove the potential for sudden death - but inevitably, if you're getting hit, you'll want to stop getting hit.

The PRIMARY order given to your pet in PvP should still be an attack order, not a defensive (BG) order. This is how we'll do the majority of our killing. If we start taking hits, then sure, go Def - and run like crazy - then go on the offensive again.

Finally, need I remind you that as a FF user, you have the ultimate option of PFF - massively raising your defense.

I'm very encouraged so far by the sound of BG.

Petcom_all foll def will now be the MM's 'Oh %$£&!' button, as well as a general safety habit whilst travelling through PvP areas. A button that has previously been reserved only for /FF MMs with PFF

I don't expect to be using this all of the time - certainly not in PvE (we've never truly needed it there, so I'll only use it sparingly to avoid death rather than gimp myself by disallowing micromanagement of pets), and only sparingly in PvP. IMHO this should only be relied upon in order to absorb sudden high burst damage, and not as a generic 'zomg we have 75% resists!' - we don't - diverting damage to pets is only short term, and once the T1s go down, the T2s won't be far behind - you'll be left with no weapons, and say goodbye to your '75% resists'.

What it will do is allow for some interesting strategic battles. Some of my favourite fights are vs Tanks and Scrappers - and here is where BG could get very involved. As a Robot/Traps MM, I have to set up a trapped area in order to be effective - once done, I still have to play a very dangerous game of cat and mouse, as even some tanks can 3-shot me in WB. If the opponent starts to attack the pets, lead him on a merry chase with GOTO whilst laying more traps, if he goes for you, run around like crazy, with the pets attacking. BG will give me a little more leeway in those times. Finally, lead the prey through the trapped area, pray for detoggles, and layeth the smack down whilst using every soft control I can muster.

The ability to change from offensive to (much more) defensive, even if only temporarily is going to add a level of diversity previously unheard of to our role in PvP. I suspect perhaps we underestimate just how quickly our T1s are going to drop with BG, but better them than me.

One thing that does worry me, and I've posted it elsewhere...

The PPP choices in conjunction with Bodyguard:

If an attack gets through (check vs def), BG will split the damage across MMs and Pets, then only apply Resistances for the MM, not the pets. Only 1 out of the 4 PPPs has a def shield, the others are resistance...

This effectively means that only the def shield provides 100% of its value to a MM using BG. The Res shields, for a 6 pet MM using BG, would only apply to 25% of the incoming damage. Sure, it is damage that would be hurting you, but it is not like the other 75% magically disappears - it is still damage to your pets, with consequences (pets die eventually!).

From a strictly min-max perspective, I am concerned that there is an obvious frontrunner...

We now know that the Bodyguard bonus will be introduced in I7, and will work as follows:

Pets are valid bodyguards if they are in supremacy range and in def/follow mode.
All damage incoming to the MM is split amongst pets and the MM (1 portion to each valid pet, 2 portions to the MM) - resistances are only taking into effect for the MM, not the pets (who always take full damage as bodyguards).

Spot a problem?

Bodyguard behaviour is not damage mitigated, it is damage *diverted* - that damage is still taken, just amongst several targets. Defense applies vs ALL of the incoming damage - you take it all, or you take none of it. Resistance however is only calculated for the MM - in other words, only applies to a small fraction of the incoming damage (25% of the damage with 6 pets).

As Black Scorpion has the only defense based shield, I'd say this helps put his set head and shoulders above the others for MMs. Which is what I'd thought they'd tried to avoid....

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Why thank you very much

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Gah! A Ghost!

Good luck over there - I'm UK based myself, but my guild plays here - so I get to sleep odd hours at weekends :P

Seeing as how many of the links (those that pointed to posts that weren't in the guides section) are now broken, I've found MZ's guide on the EU forum - he has a handy little mini url for it also.

Master Zaprobo's Guide to the Modern Mastermind

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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.

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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.

What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.

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Well, taking your example of the computer... Why not involve some sort of min-game, which if successfully completed provides a reward - if a 'wrong move' is made, a guard spawn materialises and moves to attack (only alerting the player once the first hit strikes - also making this safer in groups).

Since certain recent developments in the game industry (*cough*nge*cough*), there is a concern that some game publishers feel there is little value and too much cost in running 'deep' games.

Trouble is, deep games are what keep many of engrossed for days/weeks/months/years. My only real issue with CoH/CoV is it's lack of deep content - skills would be a good start.

I'd also like to see other more social content which encourages SG participation... I'm one of those people that HATES crafting (don't EVER let me see a Tailor or armorsmith hero/villain ), but this does not mean that all social content should be excluded.

Make the bases mean something more - fuzzy possibilities include having a villain SG select a 'plot' from their supercomputer, which created a string of many generated *parallel* missions (gather intel, rob group x, kill boss y), the completion of which would perhaps end in a grand finale, which then gives a temporary buff/power to all SG members. Etc etc.

For me, Omega Surge hit the nail on the head.

If we are built well, plan our strategy in advance, and fight with skill, we can make a *huge* difference. If we zerg (or get zerged without warning), we're toast. In two situations, I've strategically placed traps and managed my robots (and used the environment to my advantage) to take down 2 red bosses, 2 orange lts and many minions at once. I've also ran around a corner, bumped into a boss, and been wiped along with my pets in under 5 seconds.

We have good steady dps at high levels now - this is weighed against a number of balances:

* - we're the only AT which LOSES damage output as we take damage (our pets die).
* - we have low HP and personal defenses (PFF aside). If we do get aggro, we can die very very quickly.
* - in order to remain effective at high levels, especially in large groups, we have to micromanage.
* - We can be an outright nuisance on some instance maps (caves/Oranbega)

IF everything slots into place, we can be a valuable asset to a team - so can any other AT however. *ANY* AT can solo relentless if built/played for it - some MMs can, some can't.

Well well well... I'll have to eat my hat.

On a hunch, I went back to test, removed my 2 lvl 30 SOs from Assault bot, and revisited the longbows...

Result?

Duel Plasma: 13 and 7 ticks of 5.

Compared to live: 20 and 7 ticks of 9.

Looks like this is not just on test - it's been patched to live (hence noticing no difference).

Yay us

Edit: Ok, so I'm playing a solo mission now... All I can say is Oh My God. What a difference - I no longer have to be afraid of minions, and Lts aren't the chore that they used to be. I have a feeling I'm actually going to be contributing damage-wise in groups now. Woot!

I don't think this overpowers us - we're still squishy in the center, being a MM with few personal defenses, and we're the only AT that actually loses effectives as we 'take damage' (our pets die) - but we do have a much bigger stick to wield.

Well, I've just run some numbers between live and test.

They're exactly the same. If it HAS been patched to test (Which I doubt), then it isn't affecting damage at all. This fix isn't in test patch notes, so I'm assuming it isn't there yet, until I hear otherwise.

Level 27 Robot Traps

Battle Drone (Slotted 3x25 damage SO)

Laser Burst: 3 ticks of 7
Heavy Laser: 10+20

Protector Bot (Slotted 3x25 damage SO)

Laser Burst: 3 ticks of 10
Heavy Laser: 3 ticks of 5+10

Assault Bot (Slotted 2x30 damage SO)

Plasma: 41
Flamethrower: 8 ticks of 8
Duel Plasma: 20 + 7 ticks of 9

Exactly the same on both live and test, fighting even-con longbow eagles, rifles, and button gunners in Nerva.

This is exactly why I briefly tried, then binned a Claws Stalker in beta (I'm now Ninja blade).

I played a Claws scrapper in CoH, and never truly felt satisfied with it. Sure, at high level it could dish out ok damage, but the problem is more cosmetic.

As the poster above correctly (imho) states, the claws set should fight like a blender - trouble is, it doesn't... Each animation has weighty pauses in between, with some attacks simply being ponderous. Ridiculously slow baseball pitch, long pause, single slash, long pause, a few tickles to the face, long pause.

Edit (suggestion): Personally, I'd much prefer claws if the damage per hit was lowered (along with endurance cost), but the animation time and recharge *drastically* improved - this would lend more of the blender feel to the set. Throw in a single good damage attack to use as a non-AS crit backup, and you'd have a good Stalker set (that *feels* right as well as plays right). Claws should be death by a thousand cuts.