Patron Powers for the MasterMind, v.beta (by ZM)
By
Adumbrate,
Posted on: 2006-04-01 10:47 in Player Guides
Seems like a pretty fair commentary so far.
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And thirdly, we are left asking the Developers what they were thinking in giving MMs AoE attacks and immobilizations in the first place. These powers generate agro onto the MM and not the minions. MMs have the least amount of hp and almost no defense (the sheild toggle of the PPP will not be enough to protect the MM).
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The MM boost that's supposed to be coming in I7 might the mission piece of the puzzle. I have absolutely no idea what it will be, only that it's supposed to help in PvP, as well as PvE to some extent. One guess might be some sort of henchmen taunt ability. I could see that mitigating that MM aggro to some degree.
since you felt it appropriate to post this in multiple places, i might as well post replies multiple places as well.
I also do not feel that speculation warrants the title of guide. Actually, given what's written, this seems more a discussion topic than a guide.
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And thirdly, we are left asking the Developers what they were thinking in giving MMs AoE attacks and immobilizations in the first place. These powers generate agro onto the MM and not the minions. MMs have the least amount of hp and almost no defense (the sheild toggle of the PPP will not be enough to protect the MM).
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First the assertion that AOEs will result in mad aggro and death. Speaking as someone who has and uses M30 grenade, this isn't true, especially in the late game when your pets are throwing out multiple AOEs.
Secondly, that the shield toggle will not be enough to protect the MM. This is asinine speculation and does not deserve to be in anything labeled "Guide".
Lose the commentary and it would be appropriate as a 'beta guide'. The format is decent and it does focus on one archetype. But as it is, it's not a guide.
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First the assertion that AOEs will result in mad aggro and death. Speaking as someone who has and uses M30 grenade, this isn't true, especially in the late game when your pets are throwing out multiple AOEs.
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I am going to have to agree with the above. As a Bot/Trap MM, I have never drawn any extra aggro from any of my AoE attacks/skills ('Trops) that I could not easily handle. The Bots just spit out too much damage for the AI to notice lil' ol' me. All a new AoE attack will require is wating for the minions to aggro and perhaps shifting an attacking target if you do draw aggro. Nothing new there.
Hey Zombie,
I'll toss you some positive feedback!! 
I like the guide.
I appreciated teh v. beta in the title.
To disagree with the criticism of my peers, alot of the guides in this forum are really just the posters opinion with some collected data thrown in.
The whole pro/con of AOE's debate is a factor for MM's.
It's the OP's opinion that the Shields should have come before the AOEs. You are free to disagree with him of course, but please don't tear the guide to shreds over a single difference of opinion.
Centinull
My opnion is (not that anyone cares) That he has a fair guess at what the powers will be like, as one who doesnt attack i will now get the oh so unwanted opertunity to pick up a cone attack....
Cheers!
I said comments welcome, even negative ones.
I'm certainly going to test on Test the amount of agro that a primary AoE attack will have and how much the pets can cover it.
While MMs may have experience overcoming agro of AoE immobs and powers that do *minor* damage over time, it's going to be different when you're doing *moderate* DoT and it's you doing it, not a pet or device.
And yes, this is version beta, and I did disclaim we don't have hard numbers, and I do want other input. Don't know why there's all the heat for a draft version of a guide. Lots of guides started out as drafts.
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It's because they expected something new, something original, something that would give them all their answers on a platter! Even the best guide doesn't truly do this, and the discussion is warranted since there are no numbers, and even small amounts of speculation leads to the powers in the PPPs being at least Moderate. Again, we'll have to see how it tests, but your synergy discussion is well taken, since secondary effects have indeed traditionally been second fiddle to primary ones.
On the flip side, however, is teaming. A team of MMs who all have the same PPP for the same secondary effect (and probably the holds!) will be able to get far more benefit out of those effects than a solo player, a consideration to mull over. The aggro will also be better mitigated: there can be more minions free-for-alling out there to draw attention. There are plenty of MM SGs out there, and I've seen plenty of teams that like having 3-5 MMs. Under the discussion for character concept or an additional one on playstyle, I would include the differences that soloing vs teaming builds should have for which PPP may actually suit that MM more.
Just my humble 2 infamy.
Interesting analysis. I would change the topic title to include the word "analysis" but, I also don't bother writing guides. Your post does raise a question of how extensive your experience with MM's is, though. I'm not saying this to be mean or critical, but as a previous poster pointed out, attacking mobs is by no means a debt warrant for the clever MM. Heck, I'm not "clever" and I have all three merc attacks and spam them regularly in a futile attempt to keep up with bots damage. Sure, if the first thing I do is toss a grenade and *then* have my minions attack, I'll be setting down a triage beacon and hope it and my medic can keep me alive. But, the only time I do that is when my pets are standing by in a choke-point ambush and I just want to draw an entire spawn into it and am certain I can duck before taking return fire. In general, I can use good judgement regarding when I can and can't safely throw a grenade. And honestly... it's very fulfilling to see mobs drop from *my* attack and not just my minions. I'll be looking more closely at the aoe attacks and not the cones, as I am always in the air with that toon. (Which, admittedly, is a significant factor in survivability - if the Tank Swiper can't swipe at ya cause he can't jump two feet, your minions can handle the rest.)
As an additional, the fact that shields come later on isn't really such a big deal. How long do melee toons have to wait until they can finally start resisting mezzes that they've been facing since at least 6th level? Most come at either 10 or 16. The additional resist will be useful when used correctly. Long ago, my blaster benefited greatly from running tough and I can't count the times that she got hit with something(s) dropping her to a sliver of life and walked away from the fight alive... panting heavily, but alive. Even with blasters getting the worst buff from it, that little buff was well worth avoiding the disgrace and debt of falling. In a geek's analogy: Why do people take weapon focus in d&d if they're not fighters? It's only a +1 bonus, which is only 5%. Well, it's because it's a +1 bonus which is better than a +0.
My only real frustration with the ppp's is that none of them fit into the concept of either of my mains. I would have prefered more variety, at least in graphic or how the powers are portrayed, but I'll work something in. All in all, I'm really looking forward to adding some more utility to both my already very utility characters. (traps and ninjitsu)
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Interesting analysis. I would change the topic title to include the word "analysis" but, I also don't bother writing guides. Your post does raise a question of how extensive your experience with MM's is, though. I'm not saying this to be mean or critical, but as a previous poster pointed out, attacking mobs is by no means a debt warrant for the clever MM. Heck, I'm not "clever" and I have all three merc attacks and spam them regularly in a futile attempt to keep up with bots damage. Sure, if the first thing I do is toss a grenade and *then* have my minions attack, I'll be setting down a triage beacon and hope it and my medic can keep me alive. But, the only time I do that is when my pets are standing by in a choke-point ambush and I just want to draw an entire spawn into it and am certain I can duck before taking return fire. In general, I can use good judgement regarding when I can and can't safely throw a grenade. And honestly... it's very fulfilling to see mobs drop from *my* attack and not just my minions. I'll be looking more closely at the aoe attacks and not the cones, as I am always in the air with that toon. (Which, admittedly, is a significant factor in survivability - if the Tank Swiper can't swipe at ya cause he can't jump two feet, your minions can handle the rest.)
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You make good points, but I believe they bolster my points. 
You say you wouldn't lead with grenade, *unless* you were pulling and had a way to immediately undo the agro. Well, that's going to be the same with all AoEs, especially the attack that does moderate damage. And that makes the AoE attack a situational power. If that attack had been given to a pet (or came with a brand new pet), then we wouldn't have to worry about the agro of it. As I mentioned, the AoE attack will most likely be a situational attack for things such as pulls or finishing moves (although, pets can also be used to pull or provide a fan-out scourge).
A better designed set of powers for a MM would have included agro management with an AoE attack, e.g, group confuse, disorient, sleep, or stun. The Mace set with its knockback is the only set with a power that provides agro management. Instead of agro management, we get cone immobilizations, which only increases agro. I'm not looking for an uber "i win" power, just a more synergystically designed set. After all, they customized the Pool explicitly for MMs. I and many MMs here are saying that its not as good a fit for MMs as it could have been.
I can 'tank' on teams becuase the pets are grabbing all the agro and I'm flying under the radar. If I decide to throw my AoE attack, I'll wind up running for cover and losing my pet management.
Again, we'll have to see how agro-vating the AoE attack is on mobs.
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I don't claim to be the greatest mastermind player this game has ever seen. However, on the subject of the AoE immob, I can see it being useful. It'd require the same tactic I use now for caltrops and web grenade (bot/traps). That being, to allow the bots' first salvo to hit before applying control. The mobs don't have time to move, and the fact that the bots made the first attack (and are continuing to attack) allows me to avoid most of the aggro.
Now, I might take more heat hitting the mobs with an AoE immob. Then again, the bots would still be making the first, devastating attack, and continuing to do so. And now the mobs are immobilized in the burn patches. Also, there's the damage shield to help mitigate the extra heat from using the immob.
With that in mind, the damage shield, then, doesn't need to be extremely potent. Merely potent enough to negate the additional damage that would have been taken through the use of the immob or attack in the set.
A good opening analysis. A good beta guide. I liked the way you laid out the options and made some comparisons between them. Some of your conclusions will require experience in the field to corroborate or disprove. But then, we all knew that coming into the thread, I'd hope.
I mentioned this in a more general discussion of the PPP, but I think it bears repeating here. You dismiss the toggle 'defenses' in general, but there are some important differences in my mind. For example, Black Scorpian's shield is a defense where the other Patrons have resistances. This could be quiet a boon to /traps /dark (to some degree) and of coarse /FF (depending on the final numbers). By stacking this sheild with my FF gen (I'm a /traps), and possibly stealth/manuevers/vengence I'm better off than if I was to take a resistance (especially with I7 changes to defense calculations).
Another thing about the aoe immobilizes, they make the use of cover during fights even more productive. With decent accuracy you can use the ole 'root and dash', leaving enemies clumped up nicely for ranged aoe's of merc's and robos while experiencing very little retaliation.
Just a couple of my thoughts...
Freeze
Freeze Warning - Ice/Storm 'troller
Shadowed Terror - Dark/Dark scrapper
Crossbones Cat - Dark/Dark defender
Maiden Taiwan - Invulnerable/EM tank
Dark Tomorrow - Merc/Traps mm
Counter Culture Clown - Rad/Rad corruptor
From a strictly min-max perspective, I am concerned that there is an obvious frontrunner...
We now know that the Bodyguard bonus will be introduced in I7, and will work as follows:
Pets are valid bodyguards if they are in supremacy range and in def/follow mode.
All damage incoming to the MM is split amongst pets and the MM (1 portion to each valid pet, 2 portions to the MM) - resistances are only taking into effect for the MM, not the pets (who always take full damage as bodyguards).
Spot a problem?
Bodyguard behaviour is not damage mitigated, it is damage *diverted* - that damage is still taken, just amongst several targets. Defense applies vs ALL of the incoming damage - you take it all, or you take none of it. Resistance however is only calculated for the MM - in other words, only applies to a small fraction of the incoming damage (25% of the damage with 6 pets).
As Black Scorpion has the only defense based shield, I'd say this helps put his set head and shoulders above the others for MMs. Which is what I'd thought they'd tried to avoid....
The PPP seems pretty useful for some builds just because of the single target hold, especially Necro and/or Dark. With Dark, you can stack holds on Bosses/AVs, and with Necro, you can get the same synergy with your lich in this regaurd that you get with Necro/Dark.
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As Black Scorpion has the only defense based shield, I'd say this helps put his set head and shoulders above the others for MMs. Which is what I'd thought they'd tried to avoid....
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While I agree defense is better than resistance here, Black Scorpion Powers require you tote around a stupid mace you can't even bash anyone with.
THAT ALONE will discourage many players from taking Black Scorpion as a mentor.
Centinull
ZOMBIE MANS GUIDE TO MASTERMIND PPP
. You can get the powers in the right order (shield, immobilization, attack).
[Note: Right now, we only have general descriptions of the powers, no hard numbers, which will be forthcoming from within the game itself. So, well have to wait until Issue #7 (I7) hits the Test Server. Im assuming the powers are generally the same as similar powers in the game, just like Hero Epic Power Pools powers are similar to the powers in the regular power sets.]
Here is the description of the Patron Power Pools (PPPs) for the MasterMind:
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Ghost Widow - Soul Mastery
Night Fall: Unleashes a cone-shaped burst of particles from the Netherworld. All targets within the modest range of this power take Negative Energy damage and have a reduced Accuracy.
Dark Embrace: You tap into the energy of the Netherworld to protect yourself from damage. This Dark Embrace shrouds you and grants resistance to Lethal, Smashing, Negative Energy, and Toxic damage.
Soul Tentacles: You can create a cone-shaped rift to the Netherworld that allows the souls of the damned to slip into our reality. These Soul Tentacles will snare all foes within range, Immobilizing them while their drain their life. You must have one other Soul Mastery power before selecting this power.
Soul Storm: Like Ghost Widow, you will be able to summon the souls of your victims to do your bidding. Soul Storm enraptures a single target, Holding them while their life-force is drained from their body. You must have two other Soul Mastery powers before selecting this power.
Black Scorpion - Mace Mastery
Web Envelope: The Nullifier Mace can lob a modified Web Grenade. Upon impact, the Web Grenade expels a strong, tenuous, and very sticky substance that can Immobilize most targets in a wide area. This non-lethal device deals no damage and does not prevent targets from attacking, although their attack rate is Slowed. The Web can bring down flying entities and halts jumping.
Scorpion Shield: Black Scorpions technologies are impressive indeed. This energy shield grants you Defense to Lethal, Smashing and Energy attacks, as well as improves your Damage Resistance to Toxic damage.
Mace Beam Volley: Fires a volley of multiple kinetic energy blasts from your Nullifier Mace. These blasts spread out in a wide cone and are powerful enough to knock down some foes. You must have one other Mace Mastery power before selecting this power.
Web Cocoon: The Bane Mace can fire a more powerful version of the common web grenade. The sinewy fibers of this grenade are strong enough to completely Hold one target. Targets able to resist the Hold are still likely to have their attack and movement speed dramatically Slowed. Web Cocoon can also bring down flying targets and prevent foes from jumping. You must have two other Mace Mastery powers before selecting this power.
Captain Mako - Leviathan Mastery
School of Sharks: You can call forth a school of vicious Shark Spirits that will swim out in a cone formation and will encircle your foes, draining their spirit energy. The encircling Shark Spirits will immobilize most foes while they deal Negative Energy damage over time. Both you and the target must be near the ground for this power to activate.
Chum Spray: Sharks will eat anything, so their stomach acid must be powerful indeed. You can regurgitate this acid and spew a corrosive spray of bile at a foe. Affected foes in the cone will take Toxic damage over time.
Shark Skin: The power of the Leviathan Mako has shown you seems to have no end. Shark Skin improves your Damage Resistance to Lethal, Smashing and Cold damage. You must have one other Leviathan Mastery power before selecting this power.
Spirit Shark Jaws: You can summon a massive Spirit Shark that will attack your foe from below. The Shark will grip your foe with its massive jaws and attempt to Hold the target while he mauls it, dealing Lethal damage over time. Flying targets will likely be pulled to the ground. You must have two other Leviathan Mastery powers before selecting this power.
Scirocco - Mu Mastery
Static Discharge: Hurls multiple bolts of Mu electricity in an arc that deals damage and drains Endurance from all affected foes in the area.
Charged Armor: When you toggle on this power, you are surrounded by a charged field that makes you highly resistant to Smashing, Lethal, and Energy damage.
Electrifying Fences: Electrifying Fences attempts to Immobilize a group of foes in an area. This power deals some Energy damage over time as it slowly drains some Endurance. You must have one other Mu Mastery power before selecting this power.
Electric Shackles: Electric Shackles binds a foes limbs, leaving the target Held and helpless. The target is drained of some Endurance and some of that Endurance may be transferred back to you. You must have two other Mu Mastery powers before selecting this power.
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And here is a summary of the powers
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Soul
Att(DoT(cone, mod, neg)), -ACC
+Res(Leth/Smash/Neg)
Immob(cone, DoT(min, neg), -ACC?
Hold(DoT(min, neg))
Mace
Immob(AoE), -speed, -fly, - jump
Def(Leth/Smash/Enrg), Res(Tox)
Att(DoT(cone, mod, smash?,energ?), knockback
Hold/-speed/-recharge/-fly/-jump
Leviathan
Immob(DoT(cone, min, neg)) (grounded)
Att(DoT(cone, mod, toxic)
Res(Leth/Smash/cold)
Hold(DoT(min, lethal) -fly
Mu
Att(DoT(cone, mod, elec) -END
Res(Leth/Smash/Enrg)
Immob(AoE) -END
Hold, -END, +END
DoT=Damage over Time
damage level is minor (min) or moderate (mod)
AoE = Area of Effect (circular or spherical radius)
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Brief Comparisons
The four sets are pretty similar. they all have:
1. A single target Hold in the fourth slot
2. An AoE (cone or radius) immobilization (the foe cant travel, except for teleport, but they can attack)
3. A ranged, cone attack that does damage over time.
4. A defensive toggle (shield).
Note that the attack, immobilization, and defensive toggle are mixed up in the order that they come depending on the set seemingly randomly.
Which set you choose (if any) will depend on three things:
1. Character concept.
2. Usefulness of the powers as powers.
3. Usefulness of the powers for their secondary effects.
Character Concept
Im not going to say much on this except for three things.
1. Yes, given the rather narrow focus of the four PPPs, it will be hard for many a character to find a Patron or PPP that goes with their character concept, though for MMs, it should be a little easier than some of the other ATs. Necro obviously has Ghost Widow. Bots has Mace. Mercs and Thugs will work for anybody. Ninja has Mu.
2. Its a disappointment that none of the sets give a new pet to MMs. I guess a lack of a gift is better than a nerf. However, keep in mind that you can take Leviathan and pretend the spirit sharks are new pets!
3. You dont have to take any of the powers in the PPP. Even if you do a Patrons arc for the respec, you dont have to take any of the powers. You can pretend the badge from the arc is just a regular accomplishment badge.
Usefulness of the Powers as Powers
Imagine this ideal scenario: You toggle on a shield for better defense, you throw a cone immobilization on a group of foes, you then hit them with a cone shaped attack. Great, eh? Unfortunately, some of these PPPs dont allow you to do that all too well.
First of all, with Leviathan, you cant take the shield power first. You have to take first the immobilization or attack, both of which generates agro for which you need the shield. Secondly, Mu and Mace have AoE immobilizations (i.e., a spherical or circular radius), and not cone, which doesnt work too synergistically with the cone attack.
And thirdly, we are left asking the Developers what they were thinking in giving MMs AoE attacks and immobilizations in the first place. These powers generate agro onto the MM and not the minions. MMs have the least amount of hp and almost no defense (the sheild toggle of the PPP will not be enough to protect the MM).
And lots of agro at that. Unlike the agro that AoE debuffs draw, attack agro can not be easily gotten rid of -- it generates much more hate in the foes. A MM will be forced to have the minions free-for-all attack all the foes at once instead of concentrating attacks on one foe at time.
[Side Note: The reason that focused, one-foe-at-a-time attacks is a good tactic is to take this example: If you're fighting ten foes and you're now half-way through the battle, would you rather have ten foes all at half health standing and attacking you at full strength; or would you rather have five foes left with full health attacking you at full strength?]
The only way that an AoE attack or immobilization would be beneficial to a MM is if that attack did heavy damage (which will be unlikely) and quickly dispatched a large number of the foes at once. Otherwise, this is, at best, a situational power for a group of low level foes that are already near death.
Where are we? Oh, yeah, fourthly: So, the only really useful powers in these PPPs are the single target hold and the shield toggle. But some MM sets already have a hold (though, you can try to become a hold specialist and see if you can hold an Elite Boss). And to get to the Hold, you have to take two of the other powers in the set, only one of which is really beneficial to the MM, the shield.
For MMs, this is a very poorly thought out set of powers. Sorry, devs.
Usefulness of Powers for their Secondary Effect
As a general rule, secondary effects that are debuffs are very weak. And so, the -ACC of Soul, the -END of Mu, and the -speed and -recharge of Mace are pretty useless, unless you're stacking them on top of other powers that you already have. The -ACC of Soul will stack with the -ACC found in the Necro, Dark, Trick Arrow, and Poison sets. The same for the -recharge and -speed of Mace for those sets that already have those debuffs. Since no MM set has -END, then the -END of Mu is totally and completely worthless as a secondary effect for MMs.
Secondary effects that are mezzes or status inducers are much more effective... they're either on or they're not. And so, the knockback of Mace will have a noticeable effect, namely, delaying the return fire of the group of foes you just attacked. That should buy you enough time to hide and to get your pets to grab agro back from you.
Only one power has a buff: the Hold of the Mu set. It gives you +END. So, this might be worth it if you're a toggle hog and you don't have Stamina.
Anything Good?
Some, it's a mixed bag:
1. Soul Mastery has a good synergy with the -ACC sets. If your foes' accuracy is floored, then you don't have to worry too much about return fire from all the agro that the AoE powers cause. (The description for the immobilization power, Soul Tentacles, doesn't mention -ACC, though, I'm sure that's just an oversight.) The cones (attack and immobilization) match. You can get the powers in the right order (shield, immobilization, attack). There's no drawing of a weapon.
2. Mace Mastery seems to be the best all-around generic set. It's very much a control and disable set with the -fly, -jump, -speed, -recharge, and knockback. The knockback will help a little in mitigating agro. However, you have to draw a weapon which takes time (hopefully, there will be the usual +5% accuracy for a drawn weapon). The AoEs of the immobilization and attack don't mach (radius v. cone). The shield toggle has a resist (toxic) in addition to the defense (which doesn't make sense character-wise, but it's a small boon <shrug>
3. Leviathan Mastery is the most original powerset yet. It might be the coolest or the silliest thing you've ever seen. It can be played as an extra pet set. However, it has almost no secondary effects. It has no inherent way to mitigate agro from the AoE attacks, in fact, you can't take the shield toggle first. The immobilization can only be used on the ground (!). At least the attack and immobilization are both cones. There's no drawing of a weapon.
4. Mu Mastery has the useless -END debuff (for a MM), but it does have the useful +END buff. The AoEs don't match (cone v. radius). It has no inherent means to mitigate the agro that the AoEs will draw. You can get the powers in the right order (shield, immobilization, attack). There's no drawing of a weapon.
[Note: comments and addenda are welcome.]
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