Mandatory Mission Entry to PvP Zone
By
BellaStrega,
Posted on: 2005-11-01 11:04 in Everything about PvP
Your mission was to talk to a contact in a PVP zone correct? Simply talk to the contact and leave. You don't have to do any missions for them. This is no different from the Hollows. It's mearly an introduction to the zone and that's all.
Taking things a bit literally are we? The concept is that you are not force to PvP.
Yes, to clear these annoying "PvP contact missions" you must step foot in a zone deemed PvP.
What is the worst that could happen? Well, as of now, you walk in, talk to the guy, and walk out as your PvP safety timer goes out. Later on, maybe some jerk might TP-Foe you away from safety and kill you (I assume you won't struggle). Your 'discomfort' is a small walk out of the hospital and out of the zone. Waste of time for you? maybe, but you get a pinch of exp.
This is a small period of time for your hero's walk to lvl50. You are still 99.99999% PvP free, but more likely to be 100%.
Freeedom
H: Victra Defile (Rad/Dark) & Hot Hits (Fire/SD)
V: Spike Cream (NW) & Crescent Wind (Nin/Storm)
Sub Hero Inc ARC: 1541
--If you don't like what I have to say, it was probably a typo you are refering to.
This is yet another thread of someone complaining about getting a mission that involves 2 seconds of talking to a contact right by the entrance to the pvp zone. There is a problem with people getting ganked through loopholes in the safe zone, but that becomes more of an inconvenience then anything, and should be whats being addressed, not the fact that you have to go to the pvp zone for a very short period of time.
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
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Taking things a bit literally are we? The concept is that you are not force to PvP.
Yes, to clear these annoying "PvP contact missions" you must step foot in a zone deemed PvP.
What is the worst that could happen? Well, as of now, you walk in, talk to the guy, and walk out as your PvP safety timer goes out. Later on, maybe some jerk might TP-Foe you away from safety and kill you (I assume you won't struggle). Your 'discomfort' is a small walk out of the hospital and out of the zone. Waste of time for you? maybe, but you get a pinch of exp.
This is a small period of time for your hero's walk to lvl50. You are still 99.99999% PvP free, but more likely to be 100%.
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Just wanted to point out that no one can TP foe you until your timer runs out so you still have ample time to talk to your contact and skeedaddle before the timer runs out and you're subjected to the horrors of pvp.
You can talk to the PvP contact and leave before the 30second timer expires. Literally.
Food for thought, people. Try these things before complaining.
All these things are wonderful points, if they were expressed in the mission write up. But they aren't. The end result is a mission statement that says go INTO the PvP zone. It doesn't say, there is a safe zone, There is a safety timer, It certainly doesn't say where the contact is, or this is Intro to PvP 101. Plenty of "Go talk to So & So" missions in this game simply give you a mission when you talk to the aforementioned So & So without asking further (a la Security Chiefs).
I'm glad you all provided this info, but its still a sore point in how its being presented.
They want to elucidate on the fine points of PvP to me, put a contact outside the PvP zones that can answer all my questions, not inside. I have a bad taste in my mouth from more than one game with PvP done wrong. My reaction is going to be strong. And if they want to show me the benefits, dont give me limited information and a shove, and a "You MUST go into this place to learn about it". Its poor design when it comes to presenting a completely divergent gameplay experience that has such negative history and connotations.
The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
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All these things are wonderful points, if they were expressed in the mission write up. But they aren't. The end result is a mission statement that says go INTO the PvP zone. It doesn't say, there is a safe zone, There is a safety timer, It certainly doesn't say where the contact is, or this is Intro to PvP 101. Plenty of "Go talk to So & So" missions in this game simply give you a mission when you talk to the aforementioned So & So without asking further (a la Security Chiefs).
I'm glad you all provided this info, but its still a sore point in how its being presented.
They want to elucidate on the fine points of PvP to me, put a contact outside the PvP zones that can answer all my questions, not inside. I have a bad taste in my mouth from more than one game with PvP done wrong. My reaction is going to be strong. And if they want to show me the benefits, dont give me limited information and a shove, and a "You MUST go into this place to learn about it". Its poor design when it comes to presenting a completely divergent gameplay experience that has such negative history and connotations.
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You did what you should have done. You went where you knew you could get answers and you got them.
If more people did that, there's be far less squaking about this issue.
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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
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Actually, the point is, I've tried PvP in MMoRPGs before, and I pretty much hate it. Or to be precise, I hate the people who flock to it because of inadequacy issues and bully complexes. Head to Head games can be great, but I've yet to be impressed with online implementation. The other point is, don't give me half (or less) of the information and then force me to go INTO the area that's defined purpose repels me to find out what you as a Dev THINK you have done to correct the issue.
Its about communication, respect for the customer and player preference. And the provider being aware of it, especially for those people who are casual players and not forum posters or readers.
It's also to give a sense of exploration. They don't tell you that the Hollows has missions all the way across the zone or that Igneous pop out of the ground in the Gulch when you get too close.
I see your point with regards to a few things, but I have to disagree with you and the others that want all this knowledge handed to them. Explore, ask other players, come here and ask, find out for yourself. What I also don't like are the criticisms from those that refuse to even do things and make preperceived judgements and accusations. I'm not throwing all this your way, of course, but there is a lot of that type of behaviour going around in these parts lately.
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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
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Actually, the point is, I've tried PvP in MMoRPGs before, and I pretty much hate it. Or to be precise, I hate the people who flock to it because of inadequacy issues and bully complexes. Head to Head games can be great, but I've yet to be impressed with online implementation. The other point is, don't give me half (or less) of the information and then force me to go INTO the area that's defined purpose repels me to find out what you as a Dev THINK you have done to correct the issue.
Its about communication, respect for the customer and player preference. And the provider being aware of it, especially for those people who are casual players and not forum posters or readers.
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You know, that's a pretty wide brush you're painting with, my friend. Could you scale the bigotry back just a smidge to allow those who enjoy a casual bout of PvP but don't have jarring psychological issues some breathing room?
I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
As for communication, sure, you're right. They could say, "Hey, head in there to check it out, you'll be safe," but what about some small benefit of doubt that they're not totally insane and trying to get you ganked?
I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people will get the mission and then just go check it out without a further thought.
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I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
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Not even once? Aren't you curious?
Understood. And keep in mind, I don't want ALL the information about every zone, but I do want all the information about how the PvP systems work and how they are different from a dozen other failed PvP tries I've seen or experienced first hand. If I have that information provided to me first, then I can make an informed decision about whether to access the content, rather than being told to go in without any real concept of what's going to happen from the systems. Experience is great, but not when I've been burned before - life has taught me to avoid MassMog PvP like a plague without getting a full run down of implementation. Which too many producers have made their players hunt for, rather than giving them the skinny up front. Exploring the visual/physical/antagonist design elements I'm all for, as long as I know how the PvP system will work.
That's why my reaction was strong - my previous exploration in other games has given me nothing but grief, so getting a no contact will give you anything but entry to a PvP zone is a hackles raising slap.
I also agree to some degree on the point of preconceived judgement, and I'll agree with you regarding some of the posters - but many of them aren't making totally baseless comments. They are using their previous experience from other games, like myself, in the absence of the Devs of this game providing an adequate amount of info to decide if they want to give this PvP system a try IN THE GAME. Its not like the trainers in the game don't already have dialogue options to explain certain key elements, a simple City Rep outside the PvP zones could answer a lot of people's questions. I'm not a forum regular, I play casually, but it was a rankle in presentation that made me come here.
If I had been sent to a character in Steel Canyon who told me about the safety timer, the safe zone, the basics of PvP implementation in the zone, I wouldnt have gotten angry, and I probably would've willingly tried the PvP zone with an understanding of what I was getting into. It doesn't matter how short a time it would actually take to deal with the PvP contact, its a matter that I was given no choice but to go, and the only info I had was signs on the entrance saying "Enter at your own risk - free fire zone", and the knowledge that my own experience in CoH is that there are missions that send you to a person who then gives you a mission - no ifs, ands, or buts.
With that kind of info, I'm going to balk. And so are a lot of other people. Especially when the reception from others is "Dont go in if you dont want to get sniped".
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You know, that's a pretty wide brush you're painting with, my friend. Could you scale the bigotry back just a smidge to allow those who enjoy a casual bout of PvP but don't have jarring psychological issues some breathing room?
I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
As for communication, sure, you're right. They could say, "Hey, head in there to check it out, you'll be safe," but what about some small benefit of doubt that they're not totally insane and trying to get you ganked?
I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people will get the mission and then just go check it out without a further thought.
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On the contrary, I'm being very specific. Are there people who like a little casual PvP out there? Absolutely. I specified the very particular people who I've experience first hand in other games who ruin it. At no point did I say everybody who does PvP is a jackass.
Besides. What's wrong with eating babies?
As for the Devs being up on setting things so that I won't get ganked on that intro mission...previous experience in other games. Repeated failures to implement good systems in other games. Could they? Maybe. But if they'd tell me how and what they've done FIRST before entering the zone...maybe I'd just enter the zone.
As for others taking the mission and being fine with it. Maybe. But given the hue and cry I'm seeing, I'm betting a lot of people are snapping back because a lot of previous bad PvP experience in other games, and because of missions like those I specified, even if they didn't express that point.
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I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
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Not even once? Aren't you curious?
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Typo. It should read "at once".
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As for others taking the mission and being fine with it. Maybe. But given the hue and cry I'm seeing, I'm betting a lot of people are snapping back because a lot of previous bad PvP experience in other games, and because of missions like those I specified, even if they didn't express that point.
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What hue and cry? I can count the total number of people that have voiced there concerns on this forum on one hand and one of them apparently quit over it. There is NO hue and cry, there is a couple of ticked people who don't want to have to deal with the threat to their character posed by other players in those zones.
If you have a predetermined grudge against pvp, w/e, I dont care. Most people will just give the mission a shot and go see what its about. If you hate it that much as to the point where you wont even try it out, you can come on the forums ask whats going on, get the answer, and then leave it at that. No reason to make a federal case out of it like they just destroyed your entire world by making you enter a pvp zone for a few seconds.
-- Currently Playing --
Dexter Labrynth (SS/FA Brute)
Former member of Tribute and Victory Reborn
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You know, that's a pretty wide brush you're painting with, my friend. Could you scale the bigotry back just a smidge to allow those who enjoy a casual bout of PvP but don't have jarring psychological issues some breathing room?
I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.
As for communication, sure, you're right. They could say, "Hey, head in there to check it out, you'll be safe," but what about some small benefit of doubt that they're not totally insane and trying to get you ganked?
I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people will get the mission and then just go check it out without a further thought.
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On the contrary, I'm being very specific. Are there people who like a little casual PvP out there? Absolutely. I specified the very particular people who I've experience first hand in other games who ruin it. At no point did I say everybody who does PvP is a jackass.
Besides. What's wrong with eating babies?
As for the Devs being up on setting things so that I won't get ganked on that intro mission...previous experience in other games. Repeated failures to implement good systems in other games. Could they? Maybe. But if they'd tell me how and what they've done FIRST before entering the zone...maybe I'd just enter the zone.
As for others taking the mission and being fine with it. Maybe. But given the hue and cry I'm seeing, I'm betting a lot of people are snapping back because a lot of previous bad PvP experience in other games, and because of missions like those I specified, even if they didn't express that point.
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There's an overall tone to most anti-PvP posts that names the PvPer as a jackhole and buttass. Given the general ire in your original post, perhaps I misread your overall stance on the issue.
As for the hue and cry on the boards, I think that's probably a case of extremist complaint. Most people just don't care. They check it out, decide if they like it and move on. They don't even think to check the boards for build advice; why would they feel the need to come here and comment?
I tried explaining the anti-PvP sentiment to a friend and he was completely boggled.
"Wait, I'm a bully?" he said.
He's my casual player barometer. Friggin' guy didn't even put SOs in most of his powers until level 30. 
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What is the worst that could happen? Well, as of now, you walk in, talk to the guy, and walk out as your PvP safety timer goes out. Later on, maybe some jerk might TP-Foe you away from safety and kill you (I assume you won't struggle). Your 'discomfort' is a small walk out of the hospital and out of the zone. Waste of time for you? maybe, but you get a pinch of exp.
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Er, do you realize how bizarre that sounds? "The mish is no big deal, just come into the zone and get pounded on for no good reason."
Over and over I hear that the intro mish is nothing to worry about. Except...
If you are like a friend of mine who takes two or three minutes to zone when her laptop is acting up. I've seen her take so long to become 'conscious' that she could be dead and the griefers already gotten tired of insulting her and moved on before she became aware of her surroundings.
If you don't know exactly where the contact is because there is a crowd of people standing around.
If you want to take the time to actually *read* the information. Remember, the PvPers keep stressing that people don't have to take the offered mission. But how am I supposed to know that if I don't get a chance to read it carefully?
If you get a griefer who is not merely content to TP you out of the safe zone and kill you, but sends you into mobs who give you debt when they kill you.
Or if the same griefer likes doing it over and over and over...
So yes, I think forcing players into the PvP zones *is* a big deal. The devs could have put the contact next to the transport helicopters in the PvE zones just as easily, and then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
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There's an overall tone to most anti-PvP posts that names the PvPer as a jackhole and buttass. Given the general ire in your original post, perhaps I misread your overall stance on the issue.
As for the hue and cry on the boards, I think that's probably a case of extremist complaint. Most people just don't care. They check it out, decide if they like it and move on. They don't even think to check the boards for build advice; why would they feel the need to come here and comment?
I tried explaining the anti-PvP sentiment to a friend and he was completely boggled.
"Wait, I'm a bully?" he said.
He's my casual player barometer. Friggin' guy didn't even put SOs in most of his powers until level 30.
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Sounds like the kind of person I'd happily do a PvP game with.
But I've had the experience of newbie zone killers, zone entry killers, hospital griefers, and not even for tactical reasons or some kind of objective - just because they were more powerful than others and liked taunting people after the fact.
So I'm naturally a bit loathe to test the waters without up front info that efforts have been made to avoid the issues I'm familiar with.
I love head to head via LAN - UT, Homeworld, racing games, FPS, etc. You are challenging your friends. It can be great fun. I've just had really bad experiences with it online, and have learned from experience to avoid it.
As I have stated elsewhere, I agree that the area the contact is in needs to actually be safe. The current situation creates the possibility that people will have that kind of experience, or not have time to read and click on the wrong mission by mistake because they were trying to rush back to safety. I fully support the tightening of security around the contact, the entrance/exit, and the hospital.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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All these things are wonderful points, if they were expressed in the mission write up. But they aren't. The end result is a mission statement that says go INTO the PvP zone. It doesn't say, there is a safe zone, There is a safety timer, It certainly doesn't say where the contact is, or this is Intro to PvP 101. Plenty of "Go talk to So & So" missions in this game simply give you a mission when you talk to the aforementioned So & So without asking further (a la Security Chiefs).
I'm glad you all provided this info, but its still a sore point in how its being presented.
They want to elucidate on the fine points of PvP to me, put a contact outside the PvP zones that can answer all my questions, not inside. I have a bad taste in my mouth from more than one game with PvP done wrong. My reaction is going to be strong. And if they want to show me the benefits, dont give me limited information and a shove, and a "You MUST go into this place to learn about it". Its poor design when it comes to presenting a completely divergent gameplay experience that has such negative history and connotations.
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File a petition or bug report describing this. Maybe PM a dev about it. You've already started a thread. 
I agree - the mission text should be crystal clear, because otherwise people assume the worst and get angry.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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All these things are wonderful points, if they were expressed in the mission write up. But they aren't. The end result is a mission statement that says go INTO the PvP zone. It doesn't say, there is a safe zone, There is a safety timer, It certainly doesn't say where the contact is, or this is Intro to PvP 101. Plenty of "Go talk to So & So" missions in this game simply give you a mission when you talk to the aforementioned So & So without asking further (a la Security Chiefs).
I'm glad you all provided this info, but its still a sore point in how its being presented.
They want to elucidate on the fine points of PvP to me, put a contact outside the PvP zones that can answer all my questions, not inside. I have a bad taste in my mouth from more than one game with PvP done wrong. My reaction is going to be strong. And if they want to show me the benefits, dont give me limited information and a shove, and a "You MUST go into this place to learn about it". Its poor design when it comes to presenting a completely divergent gameplay experience that has such negative history and connotations.
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File a petition or bug report describing this. Maybe PM a dev about it. You've already started a thread.
I agree - the mission text should be crystal clear, because otherwise people assume the worst and get angry.
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As I mentioned elsewhere, I ran into this last night. Even though I was fully informed about how the Siren's Call contact worked, I can see why people get so hacked off about it. Not only was there no information about the contact being in a supposed 'safe' zone or that you don't have to complete a mish there, but also:
1. There was no alternative mission from that contact, so it was pick the PvP mish or lose the contact.
2. I didn't get the red "this mission is in a PvP zone" warning until AFTER I selected the mish.
IMO, that's just piss-poor design and I'm not the least surprised that people feel tricked or coerced into entering a PvP zone when they don't want to.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.
Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.
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Why should a person try something when they know they don't want to? It's like someone strapping you down and force feeding you something you don't want and never want to try.
Plus I don't think there is a guide out there letting you know what to expect once you enter into the zone. There isn't a sign posted or the contact doesn't inform you there is a countdown for you when you enter the zone or a safe zone where no one can attack you at the landing pad. All you get it is that is a free-for-all PvP zone.
I know there are other options out there to introducing people to new zones or learning new things, like Ms. Liberty and other trainers letting you know about how sidekicking works etc. Why doesn't the contact let you know about what new content is there for a person once they hit a certain level?
Example: The Hollows
It sickness me and quite a few of my SG buddies to have to run all the way to the Hollows just to be "introduced" to that zone that we dread going to. It's a long run anywhere without a travel power.
So I've seen the "I don't want to PvP" vs. "Its a PvP zone, don't enter it if you don't want to" endless back and forth.
I'm going to say my peace on this issue.
I don't particularly like PvP unless I know who I'm playing with. I've seen it lead to too much jack-[censored] behavior in an uncontrolled environment. BUT, if you want to keep it in a separate "You have a choice" zone, that's fine.
I play CoH to get a superhero fix and beat AI villains, follow a storyline, and play co-op with my friends.
Putting PvP in discrete zones made sense to me - if I don't like it, I'll stay out, but if I want to give it a try, there's where I go. That's OK with me.
Until Last Night.
Last night, I was playing, when my Contact showed me a potential mission - that REQUIRED me to go into a PvP zone.
There was no optional other mission...that was the ONLY mission that contact would provide. If I wanted to proceed with that contact in any way I would HAVE to enter a PvP zone.
Very irritated and disappointed, I went to my other contacts.
Ones whom I KNEW had other missions, since I had talked to them previously to see my options.
Surprise, every mission that they had previously been ready to offer me was gone - replaced by THE EXACT SAME PvP ZONE required mission.
I've seen endless PvPers on this board say, if you don't like it, don't enter a PvP zone. Guess what? When one has no choice but to enter a PvP zone, that off the cuff response holds no water.
EVERY contact I have will only give me a PvP zone mission. As someone who does not want to PvP, the PvE contacts are now FORCING me to enter a PvP zone, and I have no contacts that won't.
My ability to choose my style of play is being taken away from me.
So when I cancel my subscription, at least I've made myself perfectly clear. I hope the Devs read this, and give the PvEers back the ability to play the game they choose, and not force a type of unwanted online play upon them.
And that's all there is to it.
Oh, and don't bother flaming me or this post, these are the facts of my experience and my opinion. No browbeating or leet curse words will change them. The purpose is to make them known, and what you do with it from there is your concern, not mine.