So I went to GenCon, and the Devs said....

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They are trying to force people to spend money.

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Imagine that. A corporation that wants people to pay them money.

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Animated wings are never coming due to difficulty with animating them or something like that. The winged AT is somewhere on the horizon though.

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To clarify, animated wings are not going to ever become a costume piece, but instead will be a feature of one particular Epic Archetype.

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This is something i still don't quite understand. Then again, it's because i look at the animations used for capes, as well as the animations that wiggle the Kheldian Nova's mandibles and i think that it could not possibly be that much more difficult to animate metallic or energy wings that fold/fan out when you run or fly as a cape option. I'm not demanding realistic feathered or membranous wings, i'm just stating that i'd settle for wings that have as much movement as some of the minor details in existing models. You could even recycle existing animations, like the mandibles.

Hmmm, why don't the CoT Demon's wings wave back and forth anyway? What is so different about the wings that they can't be animated even slightly? They seem to have no difficulty animating arms or legs for various beasties. Legs actually have to have more thought put into the animations since they have to relate to how fast the model is moving.

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Your first link was from 14 months ago.

Your second link was from nearly 7 months ago.

Your third link was from almost 3 months ago (and posted as secondhand information -- how do you know HE didn't hear wrong)?

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Yeah? Well this is from ten hours ago, and that is from three hours ago.

Hey! I just think I got an idea! While you're picking yourself up off the floor, how about you come over here and shine my shoes? Gregor takes left. You get right.

Good game.

zzMDude=The hand on the hammer, on the nail in your coffin.

Still waiting for beta personally, but I did hear that part of the NDA was not just not talking about the cov beta, but also not announcing on the coh forums you are in the cov beta. Now if that is in fact true, you actually have now violated the NDA, if that was incorrect well then I stand corrected. It was something that was off hand mentioned to me by a friend so it may be incorrect.

It's considered rude, and may be a forum bannable offense (I forget exactly), but it doesn't violate the NDA and doesn't kick you out of beta.

As one of the few that was also at the forum, some additional points:

1. Jack and Cryptic have a "bible" of sorts, that details the entire world of CoH/CoV, including timelines and future developments. This bible was shared by all the game designers in putting together their projects.

2. The forum was intended for discussing all the new products coming out in support of the MMOG. It was not intended to be a discussion on current MMOG issues (such as I5). Although there was some discussion here, IneffableOne was correct in keeping the discussion on track. There was plenty of time to discuss I5 or CoV issues face to face with the Cryptic people at the booth.

3. Statesman is, without a doubt, a huge gaming geek His vision from early on was to bring these other games into the CoH fold, and he is always looking for new ideas. One attendee mentioned CoH card sleeves would be nice for the CCG, and he was immediately making notes to follow-up with AEG on getting it done.

4. States was very cagey about the whole CoH/CoV question of how they will work together and cost. It appears that something interesting is in the works. I mentioned that Cryptic has basically created their own competition for CoH and this may not be a good thing, but Jack appeared unconcerned.

Thats all I can think of for now, as Skip's excellent post covered most everything else. Thanks to the entire CoH gaming team for a cool, informal and fun seminar!!!

- Dave "Necrosavant"

Yes, but Jack also seems to be un concerned with the dwindling user base of COH as it stands now. Otherwise why would you nerf the hell outta almost every players characters and offer it up as an update.

In other words just cause Jack is unconcerned does not mean there is not and will not be a problem.

When COV is released and most of the coh fans join in (as I am sure cryptic and ncsoft hope they will) who will still be playing COH Paragon city will be a ghost town of waterdowned nerfed ex-heroes. Hell if they sent out more beta invites and expanded the testing times this would already be the case without the ridiculous I5 changes.

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Thanks for the report. Call me paraniod, but it sounds to me like them shoving the MMO into the crapper is intentional. With so many other ways to make money, who needs a hokey computer game that'll die out in a year or two anyway?

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BWahahaha!

They're going to ditch a subscriber-based MMO to try to make money off of a pen and paper RPG? Not even an RPG that they publish, but rather one that they only receive licensing fees on?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

HAHAHA!

Look, it's just not possible. Whatever you think of the decisions that are being made, Cryptic and NCSoft are going to do what they think will grow the game best. Maybe they're wrong, but there's no money to be made in being peripherally involved in an RPG and a CCG, and publishing a couple of genre novels.

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Yes, but Jack also seems to be un concerned with the dwindling user base of COH as it stands now. Otherwise why would you nerf the hell outta almost every players characters and offer it up as an update.


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While I also am not a big fan of I5 and share some of your concerns, your comment is incorrect. The CoH subscription base has held steady or increased each month since early 2005 (post WoW release).

I actually looked into how much money you can make off a pen and paper RPG if everything goes right.

I would like to second the BWA HA HA above.

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While I also am not a big fan of I5 and share some of your concerns, your comment is incorrect. The CoH subscription base has held steady or increased each month since early 2005 (post WoW release).

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Numbers please?
Where did you get those Numbers?

Im glad Jack is concerned with Tie In Products. If Issue5 is still unpalatable when it hits the Live servers I plan on writing a letter and sending it Registered Mail to NCSoft and their Business partners (AEG, Eden Studios, ect) explaining why I will not be purchasing any of their products.

If any of you plan leaving because of Issue5 I suggest you do the same. Jack may ignore the Ice Tankers and IH Scrappers, but he wont ignore the money men.

If Issue 5 is how the game was always intended to be played, I would have stopped paying after the 2nd Month.

no you wouldn't. You wouldn't have known any better and you'd be loving it.

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While I also am not a big fan of I5 and share some of your concerns, your comment is incorrect. The CoH subscription base has held steady or increased each month since early 2005 (post WoW release).

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Numbers please?
Where did you get those Numbers?

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MMOGChart.com

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While I also am not a big fan of I5 and share some of your concerns, your comment is incorrect. The CoH subscription base has held steady or increased each month since early 2005 (post WoW release).

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Numbers please?
Where did you get those Numbers?

Im glad Jack is concerned with Tie In Products. If Issue5 is still unpalatable when it hits the Live servers I plan on writing a letter and sending it Registered Mail to NCSoft and their Business partners (AEG, Eden Studios, ect) explaining why I will not be purchasing any of their products.

If any of you plan leaving because of Issue5 I suggest you do the same. Jack may ignore the Ice Tankers and IH Scrappers, but he wont ignore the money men.

If Issue 5 is how the game was always intended to be played, I would have stopped paying after the 2nd Month.

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Also see http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...Number=3538859 :
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Forums: States says that the forums represent about 4% of the gaming population. They represent their own world, independent of gameplay, and the opinions reflected here do NOT reflect the whole accurately at all. When asked how he did determine what reflected the whole, he replied that they got info by playing the game, jumping in on teams with people and listening. He even took the time to illustrate an example of a game that listened too heavily to a target group, made the changes that were clearly demanded by them as a whole, and watched the approval ratings for the game plummet. Whether one agrees with his statement or not, it shows that there is thought going into it.


Overall, the impression that I got is that the game is being engineered towards the casual gamer. According to Statesman, only 8% of the population have A level 50, let alone several. Furthermore, for all the DOOOOOM on the forums and complaining in broadcast, subscriptions have actually gone up. And States does pay attention to the people that say "Screw it! I'm leaving", and then are still posting a month later from an active account. In short, the game isn't going anywhere soon, and apparantly, neither are us subscribers.


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no you wouldn't. You wouldn't have known any better and you'd be loving it.

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Great, another one who thinks he knows what kind of "Fun" I'm having.

Just because Jack assumes I'm Stupid doesnt mean you get to assume the same.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand a power that only provides 7.5% resist isn't worth slotting. Add in another power that provides 7.5% resist all and Status Protection, but also lets me get hit 5% more?
Take Rooted, it's regen rate eaisly matches a measly 7.5% resist.

But I expect to see Stone Tanks on the Chopping Block soon.
"Granite Armor was always intended to be situational. We never envisioned players using Granite Armor all the time."

I would like to ask a serious question about the constant whining I hear about I5, because it really has gotten to the point where I'm just dicgusted with all the crying. I never really wasted anytime on the forums before but I have been playing this game for over a year (minus a short break after WoW released), so I don't really know if this is just the way it is. Does this happen every time an update is released? Is there always some loser calling for letter campaigns and mass subscription stops because the game has changed a little? Is it possible that it is because this issue has taken so long to come out?
Okay! We get it! You don't think you're gonna like the new game. I tried the test server for a little while and then stopped. I didn't do it to see how my old character would work. If it hadn't bee n for the fact that there were new powers involved I still wouldn't have. I wonder how many people have actually spent anytime with a full team of toons on the test server.
I think maybe they should stop allowing players into the test server. Just let them be surprised like i have been for the years that I have been playing MMOs. You log on. There's something new. You figure out how to deal with it, or you don't and quit. At the same time, someone else starts playing and likes it.
It would just be nice if a lot of people quit with the holy crusades just because of some rebalancing.

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Does this happen every time an update is released?

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Pretty much. This game has been ruined by devs with people and guilds quitting since early beta. Some days the drama is funny, and sometimes it's just bewildering.

Don't be afraid to use the 'ignore this user' option on people's prfile page that you can access by clicking on their name.

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Does this happen every time an update is released?

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Pretty much. This game has been ruined by devs with people and guilds quitting since early beta. Some days the drama is funny, and sometimes it's just bewildering.

Don't be afraid to use the 'ignore this user' option on people's prfile page that you can access by clicking on their name.

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They say CoH servers are only populated by me and 5 other guys who like the changes.

Well, stop on by the Eden studios discussion boards, and let em know your'e waiting on em big guy. For everyone getting a little irritable at the delays, I understand. It has been in the works a long, long time. But try to keep in mind that Eden has been hit very, very hard this year by closing distributors, bed print jobs etc, that have set many projects back months at a time. It's been a nasty series of circumstances.
Head over to the boards and ask Jason about or Thom about it. Both of them are freelancers, and post there pretty much every day.
As far as RPG's go, Unisystem is probably the best conceived and implemented, as well as the most versatile I have ever, ever seen. I currently own almost everything they have ever printed, and intend to own it all. I am also a rabid fan of CJ's work, and I think if you pick up the Armageddon book, you'll be greatly impressed with the ambitious, and surprisingly brilliant theme of the game. Pure genius there, from all contributors.

-King Moloch

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While I also am not a big fan of I5 and share some of your concerns, your comment is incorrect. The CoH subscription base has held steady or increased each month since early 2005 (post WoW

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I am sorry the chart you pointed out shows basically a flat line maybe a slight increase in subscribers for first 3 months of this year... Which coincides with the european servers opening up and some free trial giveaways happening... the other post you use in your statement also reflects these two items when asked dirrectly whether the free trials were taken into account for that post to be accurate the red names became awfully silent on the subject.

You don't need charts and forum posts to see the dwindling numbers. Look at server status, always green for all servers,
travel around the city looking for heroes, hell just use the find team utility and look at the number of players on each server.

Sorry but until I see multiple instances of zones like I used to I won't believe the player base has increased in numbers.

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You don't need charts and forum posts to see the dwindling numbers. Look at server status, always green for all servers,
travel around the city looking for heroes, hell just use the find team utility and look at the number of players on each server.

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Server size was increased in one of the earlier Issues, so if 1000 people played on a server and set it to yellow before, now, 1000 people will only green out a server.

When everyone starts at the same time, as they level up at around the same pace, they will populate the same general areas of the game. As time goes on, say six months after the game launches and the only time everyone will have an equal starting point, people will have a wide range of alts, who level at different paces, who go to the increased number of zones then was in the game at startup.

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Sorry but until I see multiple instances of zones like I used to I won't believe the player base has increased in numbers.

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This is, assuming of course, that the rules that worked for multi spawn zones works the same now as it did before. If 300 people flood Atlas Park on opening day and make an instance there, and there's only 300 people on the server, is that better then 1000 people on a server, dispursed throughout the 20+ zones in the game?

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You don't need charts and forum posts to see the dwindling numbers. Look at server status, always green for all servers,
travel around the city looking for heroes, hell just use the find team utility and look at the number of players on each server.

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Server size was increased in one of the earlier Issues, so if 1000 people played on a server and set it to yellow before, now, 1000 people will only green out a server.

When everyone starts at the same time, as they level up at around the same pace, they will populate the same general areas of the game. As time goes on, say six months after the game launches and the only time everyone will have an equal starting point, people will have a wide range of alts, who level at different paces, who go to the increased number of zones then was in the game at startup.



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Also remember that people use hide to get away from PL and bridging requests....

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Yes, but Jack also seems to be un concerned with the dwindling user base of COH as it stands now.

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If it were dwindling, he might have a reason to get concerned...

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When COV is released and most of the coh fans join in (as I am sure cryptic and ncsoft hope they will) who will still be playing COH Paragon city will be a ghost town of waterdowned nerfed ex-heroes.

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Boy was I waiting for this theory to resurface... it didn't have any more creedence when it first reared it's ugly head and still doesn't now, but I do so love the classics...

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Hmm...information given as a "maybe" months and months ago versus something Statesman said at GenCon less than a week ago....

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Given by a third party who apparently confused vehicle riding (as in standing on top of moving vehicles) for player vehicles. Also, there is no "maybe." They were confimed one, two, three times.

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You do realize that they might have changed their minds on this, right?

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You don't change your mind about something that you've confirmed three times in three differen't places.

One.

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(38:08)Interviewer: I heard you mentioned cars. When are vehicles are going to become a part of the game and when or if they do, can you customize them like the batmobile, or wonder woman's invisible plane, or something like that.
Statesman: Well the first question is that it'll certainly be when they get in, because it's a staple part of comic books and there's no way that they won't find their way into city of heroes, so the issue really is when. And of course they'll be customizable there's little point in introducing something like that without allowing characters to stretch their imaginations just like they do when they create their own character. So those a are two considerations now I'm not exactly sure when but rest assured it's on the list of things I'd like to get to and certainly it's been partially designed and speced but it's a long way from implementation.

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Two

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My current thinking is that Vehicles wouldn't be a Power Pool, but rather something that could be leveled up independently and customized via Influence. But nothing is imminent here - I've only sketched out ideas.

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Three

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Question 2: Vehicles - Separate Expansion as in no Issue 5-10

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^ Yeah, that sounds like "maybe" to me! You'll excuse me if I hedge my bets on two direct quotes and a word from somebody who knew what was being said over one person who heard wrong.

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Your first link was from 14 months ago.

Your second link was from nearly 7 months ago.

Your third link was from almost 3 months ago (and posted as secondhand information -- how do you know HE didn't hear wrong)?

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Yeah? Well this is from ten hours ago, and that is from three hours ago.

Hey! I just think I got an idea! While you're picking yourself up off the floor, how about you come over here and shine my shoes? Gregor takes left. You get right.

Good game.

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Huh ? I wasn't confused. I asked a direct question about player vehicles and was given a logical explanation about why there would not be any. The zones are too small to accomodate a number of players with vehicles. Sorry ZZ now get your head out.