Statesman some of us do not care about PvP
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2005-04-27 19:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I hate to break this to you, but Guild Wars is heavily focused on PvP.
Don't get me wrong; I enjoy the game and would highly recommend it. But if you're looking to shy away from PvP, Guild Wars might be quite a disappointment.
I've played my fair share of MMOs - from Star Wars: Galaxies to World of Warcraft. For whatever it's worth, I have the deepest respect and admiration for Statesman and Cryptic; they seem to care the most for their playerbase and I genuinely believe have our best interests at heart. I wish I could say the same for Sony Entertainment or Blizzard.
im still pretty new tp this game. i havent ever played on the test server (dont know how) and i havent yet experienced any of the power changes made, most likley due to the fact that i havent been playing long enought to know what it was like before certain powers were changed so my knowledge on this matter is limited and as such i cant fully comment on these changes being made to peoples play styles or power set up.
what i do know is that i originally picked up this game becase of the ability to create ur own character, right down to the abilities they have and even the story to go with the look. after that i found the game had a great community and very enjoyable gameplay over other mmo's that i had played.
the reason i felt it was more enjoyable to me was becuase i didnt have to worry about people not picking me for a team becuase i didnt have the right armor or the ONE spell they needed that costed 200,000 (insert generic currency name here) and i felt that this game was a breath from other games that had too much focus on cash and not enough focus on fun.
with that said i think it would go against what originally brought me and possibly others to this game. if people can no longer choose what they like or what they would like thier character to be becuase it would ultimately reduce the effectiveness of the character. i feel that would not only limit players to thier choices when creating a character it would also deminish from the overall feel and freedom of creating ur very own superhero which would seem to be the very essence of the game and concept itself. im not saying that the game will be immediately less fun after said changes are implemented, but i do believe that if everytime something is changed people have to rethink the character born of thier minds to fit someone elses ideal of that that class should be or how that class should preform they will loose what set them apart from other games and wind up becoming what they set out to change.
i hope that wasnt way too long.
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the reason i felt it was more enjoyable to me was becuase i didnt have to worry about people not picking me for a team becuase i didnt have the right armor or the ONE spell they needed that costed 200,000
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Try playing a NON empathy defender, you will get put on the sidelines cause you dont have your "ONE" skill that they are looking for. Try playing a Stone tank, you get put to the side due to teamability issues(mostly regarding the inability to herd and the travel power issue) players are still choosie of who to team with
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I've played my fair share of MMOs - from Star Wars: Galaxies to World of Warcraft. For whatever it's worth, I have the deepest respect and admiration for Statesman and Cryptic; they seem to care the most for their playerbase and I genuinely believe have our best interests at heart. I wish I could say the same for Sony Entertainment or Blizzard.
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Yes we love how we acctually know that the devs are out there and reading our posts, but what good does it do when they read them and tell us that we really don't know what we want so they are going to decide for us what we want, yes it is their game, and we are patrons to it, but when you spend over 2000 hours on a toon, and you know the ins and outs and get it built just right(not super uber, but in a way that works good for the player) then they go and nerf the basis of that toon, I am sorry I have spent a ton of time on test server, and live server to tweak and build my toons. I honestly thing its a capital ploy, because now I will have to spend another few hundred hours tweaking and fixing what they have nerfed and they get 2-3 more months of play out of me, but what really gets me is when they lie to us and tell us that its *Been a issue for a long time* well if its been a issue for such a long time then why wasnt it fixed a long time ago?
It bears mention that universal changes to the way powers work happen all the time in comics. It's VERY genre. I recall when Mangeto altered the magnetic field of the Earth to inhibit Professor X's psionic abilities. The funny thing is that I don't recall Professor X saying in that issue, "OMG, Magneto nerfed me! I'm outta here!" Instead he dealt with it as well as he could. Heroically, one might say.
Or take for another example the upcoming Top Cow comic. Medical teleporters and high-end powers are all eliminated in the first issue. It is trials and conflict that make a good story, not an endless parade of victories. The Devs want to create a world where the possibility of failure exists, where the fight against crime is an actual struggle and not a cakewalk, and I respect them for that.
If you think about how your character might react to the sudden changes you might have not only a better developed character but a richer playing experience as well. A stone may shrug the water aside at first, but the water eats through the stone over time.
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I'm Doctor Why and I approved this message.
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It bears mention that universal changes to the way powers work happen all the time in comics. It's VERY genre. I recall when Mangeto altered the magnetic field of the Earth to inhibit Professor X's psionic abilities. The funny thing is that I don't recall Professor X saying in that issue, "OMG, Magneto nerfed me! I'm outta here!" Instead he dealt with it as well as he could. Heroically, one might say.
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First of all, how hilarious wasn't that: "OMG, Magneto nerfed me!" XD Instant classic. ^^ I can just imagine him rolling around on the floor screaming that as every x-men contemplates the return of Onslaught. ^^
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Or take for another example the upcoming Top Cow comic. Medical teleporters and high-end powers are all eliminated in the first issue. It is trials and conflict that make a good story, not an endless parade of victories. The Devs want to create a world where the possibility of failure exists, where the fight against crime is an actual struggle and not a cakewalk, and I respect them for that.
If you think about how your character might react to the sudden changes you might have not only a better developed character but a richer playing experience as well. A stone may shrug the water aside at first, but the water eats through the stone over time.
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This was just quoted for emphasis and because I agree.
Endless parade of victories - If I wanted this I'd go challenge my dog to a Halo 2 grudge match. Let's see how well he does without opposable thumbs. It'll be superboring of course, but meh, at least I'll win...
No, I think I'll take the Eden Trial with just one damage dealer again. Because that was ridiculously fun. ^^
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I will never be playing it again. But you continue to Nerf PvE powers that have been established and in the game for nearly a YEAR for your glorious PvP balance.
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We endeavor NOT to change powers solely because of PvP. The powers we are changing are usually because of PvE or PvE AND PvP.
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I want to believe this.
I have many doubts about this atm because of the SJ nerf. Could you please explain for me the reason for changing SJ in such a way that melees will be required to have Hover to fight Mitochondria?
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I totally forgot about that 
I guess this forces everyone above 45 to take hover to fight hami. Damn it! 
Scrapper Slotting Basics
Brute Slotting Basics
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Try playing a NON empathy defender, you will get put on the sidelines cause you dont have your "ONE" skill that they are looking for. Try playing a Stone tank, you get put to the side due to teamability issues(mostly regarding the inability to herd and the travel power issue) players are still choosie of who to team with
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ive played with defenders that couldnt really heal and healers that didnt have a certain heal power and while we all agreed it would be easier we didnt make a fuss over it. ive also played with tankers who didnt have taunt and had a hard time keeping the aggro but again we never made a big deal of it. in any event thats not what i meant. what i meant was i didnt wind up waiting for a team for the whole durration of my time online and then have a whole day wasted without ever getting one. ive had this happen to me in other games becuase my class wasnt as effective as someone elses.
on a side note i do agree that people are stil a bit picky about who they want but for the most part the game maintains a light feel about that aspect, at least as far as ive seen but thats a good thing.
I don't like to play PvP. I love playing PvE. I am sincerely disgusted that the devs statement of PvP will not effect PvE has been hit with the nerf bat.
PvE powers HAVE been changed due to PvP.
While I agree that some things needed balancing, ATs are NOT made to be equal. Smart players should be allows to figure out how to accomplish things by blending powers. Those who don't think outside of the box need to [censored] and quick crying nerf. If you are upset because someone learned how to balance their powers within their AT, then copy them.
Im sorry but I'm heartily sick of the whining I constantly see on the boards and in the game.
Learn to be a better player don't bash the ones who figured it out before you.
Ignorance is being untaught. Stupidity is being unwilling to learn.
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I agree with the OP 100%... it seems like the answer to the 'balance' issues is to make everyone weak... the game is hard enough as it is. I've got a ton of lowbie toons because it's a struggle to grind my way to a travel power, or slot my attacks... and all this balance crap is just going to make it harder.
The "reward" for hitting level 50 are *two* (well, they aren't really two different AT's) that are difficult to the point of being nearly unplayable... and now the "reward" for playing CoH for a year is to see your characters made weaker.
I can't wait for the 2nd year anniversary, when I wake up in the morning and find that Statesman has slashed my tires and knocked up my girlfriend.
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If people got boosted, instead of nerfed, the game would be easier instead of hard. That means faster leveling.
That means less time playing.
That means less money for Cryptic and NCSoft.
They still run a business, after all.
Let's hope that enough people get pissed off and quit to show them nerfing is not the right decision.
yeah pvp is getting out of hand. I had never herd anyone say SR was too powerful untill the first night the arena was up. That night followed by tons of NERF sr posts. And then bang elude is nerfed. As if that was not bad enough they mess up ss/sj i mean come on people.... All these changes to pve because of pvp have me not wanting to play a toon I got to 50 because hes going to suck. With every patch or change I am waiting to see how much stuff they mess up instead of fixing things. I could not wait for I3 now I am dreading I4 when i should be on pins and needle for it. Seems to me there doing something wrong here.
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Really... SJ and SS are just end hogs in combat... it seems like the only thing the nerfs will do in PvE is limit alpha strikes.
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Exactly. Theres no real point in having SS or SJ on in combat, at least none that *I* can tell.
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With my Ktn/Rgn Scrapper, it's useful to have it on for the "oh, sh*t!" moments, when if you're not getting pwned outright but are in past your regen limit, you can use it to get away while only having to eat one round of incoming attacks before you're far enough away to hide. It's no sinecure, but it has let him survive in about a quarter of the fights where he's gotten in over his head (to be fair, half of those are 'jump in, swing, get one-shotted', so it's an effective tactic about half the time).
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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I don't like to play PvP. I love playing PvE. I am sincerely disgusted that the devs statement of PvP will not effect PvE has been hit with the nerf bat.
PvE powers HAVE been changed due to PvP.
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I'm a little bit disheartened by this. My account has been cancelled for a few months now, but I'd been playing with the idea of coming back to check out Arena.
Instead, I see the same thing that led me to leave in the first place.
Cryptic has terrific customer communication, but the Devs make their "tweaks" with a giant sledgehammer.
The fact that Statesman is claiming this is a PvE change is just laughable to me. The powers have remained in their current state for the bulk of the game's life, and they're just now changing as PvP is rolled out. That anybody believes there's a substantial PvE reason for this is amazing to me.
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Just wait until a Zeus Titan sticks a fist full of rockets in your ear.
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Oh, lord, yes. I remember my AR/En Blaster surviving the "Crap! Zeus Titan rockets outrange Boost Range and Snipe!" revelation only because the individual rockets come in as separate attacks and I had a lot of Respites to burn...
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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We endeavor NOT to change powers solely because of PvP. The powers we are changing are usually because of PvE or PvE AND PvP.
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I want to believe this.
I have many doubts about this atm because of the SJ nerf. Could you please explain for me the reason for changing SJ in such a way that melees will be required to have Hover to fight Mitochondria?
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I totally forgot about that I guess this forces everyone above 45 to take hover to fight hami. Damn it!
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Either that, or forcing every Hami raid to have a Kinetics Controller or Defender to cast Inertial Reduction.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
Actually, for at least one of us, it goes beyond "not
caring about PvP".
I've never tried PvP, and I doubt that I ever will. The
simple idea of PvP in CoH kind of creeps me out.
I prefer to work with Heroes, not beat up on them.
Eh. Just my US$0.02.
Crystal @CrystalMoon
Liberty:
LadyBlue L46 emp/rad defender
LadyMuppet L31 inv/fire tanker
LadyDespair L27 dark/dark feral scrapper
Fiachna L19 ar/dev blaster
Guardian:
Faelchu L37 bs/inv savage scrapper
RadChick L18 rad/rad defender
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So, if someone is passionately opposed to somethig they are a whiner?
I pay $15 to play this game every month. I play to have FUN. These constant Nerfs because of PvP are not FUN.
Nerf PvP however you want to. Nerfing a solid and FUN PvE is assinine.
Every person has a voice here and their voice is as good as yours.
Tired of these threads?
Do not read them.
It is that simple.
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To some extent, I agree. I pay $15 a month for the fun of being a superhero. Hypothetically, say you were a superhero in real life. I doubt when your done taking down a bunch of thugs do you look up into the sky and say "Hey God, I think I did a little TOO good. Can you lessen my abilities a little?"
What WOULD be the drawback to getting rid of Fly's accuracy debuff? "Ooo, I hit my enemies a little more than usual, I'm WAY too overpowered." Pfft, yea right.
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I agree with the OP 100%... it seems like the answer to the 'balance' issues is to make everyone weak... the game is hard enough as it is. I've got a ton of lowbie toons because it's a struggle to grind my way to a travel power, or slot my attacks... and all this balance crap is just going to make it harder.
The "reward" for hitting level 50 are *two* (well, they aren't really two different AT's) that are difficult to the point of being nearly unplayable... and now the "reward" for playing CoH for a year is to see your characters made weaker.
I can't wait for the 2nd year anniversary, when I wake up in the morning and find that Statesman has slashed my tires and knocked up my girlfriend.
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If people got boosted, instead of nerfed, the game would be easier instead of hard. That means faster leveling.
That means less time playing.
That means less money for Cryptic and NCSoft.
They still run a business, after all.
Let's hope that enough people get pissed off and quit to show them nerfing is not the right decision.
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Yes the only problem is look at how many people acctually LIKE these nerfs, so they loose just a few people, but yes it is total BS that the devs are greedy enoph to change the game to get people that are not playing it currently, to possibly come and try it out, in the same time pissing on loyal custemers that have been here and have loved the game, we love the game for what it was, not for what it is becoming and quiting seems lame to me also, makes all them whino's think they have won
What I find interesting is that the changes to Smoke Grenade generated just that kind of emotional reaction and flood on the forums. Justifiable or not, the game didn't die.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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...and quiting seems lame to me also, makes all them whino's think they have won
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But what you have to realise as customers, our ONLY power to change things is our ability to with hold our payments to the devs. Today's world is ruled by the almighty dollar, so that is the only way we can tell the devs we are unhappy.
Take enough paying customers away from their baby and only then, when their bottom line falls away into the red, will they realise the error of their ways.
However despite this, there will always be the Fanboi's out there they will support this game come hell or high water. So all I can suggest is that if you don't like it, move on. There will always be something newer and shinier on the horizon.
... as for me Auto Assault just went into Beta. So I think Statesman can expect at least another $60 ( 4 months play ) out of me before I bail to a REAL game. 
Well here's the thing......................those who, do like the PvP, don't realy care that you don't. Sure the devs fixes aren't all good but I welcome the day when permas and PL are finaly wiped out completely. Sure if the devs custom tailor a power to be perma, such as the passive powers, I won't complain. Now stop whining you conceted, jerks who likely have soloed AVs, and let the devs focus on their jobs. If a power is to powerful in their opinion then it is their legal right to alter their own interlectual property all they want.
Oh and, like my very first post I won't be here to see the flames rise.
Once Gargomaxthalus rules all, whiners will be the first togo, then criers of doom, and finaly those who actualy manage to make theirt selfishness seem funny!!!!!!!!!!
You have been warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Once Gargomaxthalus rules all, whiners will be the first togo, then criers of doom, and finaly those who actualy manage to make theirt selfishness seem funny!!!!!!!!!!
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... and who do expect to be left playing the game, to pay you their $15 per month?
Sounds like if you had your way, the only person playing the game would be you. * rolls eyes *
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Once Gargomaxthalus rules all, whiners will be the first togo, then criers of doom, and finaly those who actualy manage to make theirt selfishness seem funny!!!!!!!!!!
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Sure, Gargo-whatever may rule all, and sure the whiners will be the first to go, but then.....oh whats that? Gargomaxthalus got nerfed, too? Maybe not today, but someday its gonna hit you where it hurts. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you guys have to realize that the dev's aren't nerfing because of PvP. They are nerfing because they're balancing this game around a different standard. They don't see the game the way you or I do.
It's not PvP's fault. Not by a long shot.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
The nerfs are due to PvP.
here is what my friend wrote on a different forum about the changes to CoH. We have both played since beta [ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I've been absent the last few days. My Secret Identity has been worked like a dog lately. Hopefully, this initiative won't maintain this pace too much longer.
After learning that all 5 of my toons are going to suffer the Speed Acc debuff very soon, well it is very discouraging. *sigh* I am not looking forward to spending hours and hours rebuilding to compensate these damn changes. Free respec is only a token gesture to try and keep the player base from quitting altogether. Me thinks this is just the start of many changes to come as they re-evaluate the ATs all over again. When will they choose something and stick to it??? Personally, I've noticed the melee ATs have become far too over powered compared to the other ATs. There are exceptions such as Fire controllers with Imps that can do almost as well as the melee ATs. But the vast majority of the other ATs can't even consider playing their missions on invincible. I rather think the invincible setting was intended to be used to increase the challenge presented to a full team.
I love CoH. But I don't love getting jerked around.
"Hey, let's play Monopoly. But let's change the house rules we used last night. Don't worry, you can pick them up as you go. If you make mistakes befre you get accustomed to the new twists in the rules, well that is just how it goes sometimes."
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My reply:
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my thoughts exactly. I'm not promoting a mass exodus, but, after doing the three arcs in Striga I'm wondering what to do next. I have seen almost all of the game except for a few TF's and they really need to bring more.
Soon.
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After playing for a year+ I love the game, but, when every power that players love gets the nerf bat, it makes me want to high tail it off to another sweet spot. Each week we wonder, "what are the Devs going to nerf this time?".
Supremacy Captain
Pinnacle Server
Markusius Supremacy Legend