[ QUOTE ]
but right now, defense is king because of the way defense/resistance stacking work.
[/ QUOTE ] This just isn't true. Smart tactical playing is king, and it's queen is simply high damage. A number of scrappers have proven, myself included that solo missions on Invinc can be completed with less defense than you can get in the power pools. The reason is because we can kill mobs so quickly, we don't need defense.
The ONE thing you need to solo safely is mez protection. The game has provided Break Free and defenders and controllers to bridge that gap. The fact that you need def/contr for mez protection is part of what gives their class purpose. The fact that they don't do good damage is what gives your class purpose. Blasters, Tankers, Controllers, and Defenders are designed to be more reliant on each other than scrappers. Scrappers are designed to be self-reliant. If, you, as a blaster covet that, then go play a scrapper. I don't play my defender bemoaning the fact that I don't blaster damage...I go team with a blaster...or I play one.
I did the Ernesto Hess TF last night with a team of six. We did it on Heroic. Tanker, two controllers, two scrappers, fire blasters. The blaster did WAY more damage than anyone else on the team...by far. Tanker would go herd a small group, Earth/Storm Contr would slap down Volcanic Gases and Freezing Rain...the Fire blaster just annhilated the mobs. I'd turn to go fight one guy that got separated from the group...and I'd turn back around and the mobs were gone. Massive massive damage coming from the blaster. The key was he was smart enough when to use them and didn't die once from attacking in that situation...
When did he die?
1) The trap sprung on us and we got separated. Controller told him to sit tight and not attack...my guess is he attacked. This killed the /Regen scrapper on the team once too.
2) Stood too close to the tanker while the tanker was hearding...got taken out by AoE's....I warned him several times about that before it happened...only happened once. Ranged damage keeping him alive.
3) Got hit by some grenade and got knocked off the scaffolding and fell into the lava. Pretty cool actually.
Three deaths...I think the Earth controller died twice. Three deaths...one which definitely could have been avoided and this guy was killing by the truckload.
But one thing I noticed that he did, which so many blasters seem to do, is he kept attacking the biggest target. Why? If you have no defense why do blasters insist on attacking bosses and Lt's when there are tons of minions to deal with?
If giving blasters any defense and mez protection will only result in them continuing to try and take on the bosses/Lt's as their primary targets, it will infringe on the role of scrappers. I think the devs want to keep the roles separate.
So in other words, the blaster was annihilating minions, because they were
A) herded by the tanker (and thus attacking noone else for the MOST part)
AND
B) Locked down by AoE control effects.
In other words, the blaster was annihilating things because they were too busy shooting at someone else, AND completely helpless and thus unable to turn around and turn him into a bloody carpet-stain when he DID get their attention.
1) Actually, Targets that haven't been specifically aggroed [ie; taken damage/taunt/effect] but are just along for the ride (ie the 20 guys that wake up because you killed their buddy) have a nasty tendency to go straight for whoever's the quickest/easiest kill.
That's why running in and slashing the boss will often get them firing at the rest of your team too (with the void going straight for the squid if left to his own devices for example).
2) That's not ranged damage keeping him alive. That's just "getting too close getting him killed". "Ranged damage keeping him alive" would be better demonstrating by your Regen scrapper jousting a +4 elite boss so as to not get one-shotted, and thus win.
Yes the blaster's "safer" at range than up-close, but only because he's even weaker up-close than at range. He doesn't have any range-defense or anything of the sort, he just dies kinda somewhat slightly slower.
If Achilees was that vulnerable everywhere EXCEPT his heel(what with getting one-shotted by a hit to the foot), would you say his heel is his defense? or would you say he's a bloody wimp, just slightly less prone to dying if you whack him in the back of the foot instead of the skull?
We're kinda somewhat less-prone to ultrafastdeath if you whack us from afar. You want safe, look at someone with invulnerability power set. That's "Safer in melee than in range". We're still more vulnerable than anyone else at range... we just happen to die faster in melee.
3) well on that one, ouch. could've been anyone, depending on level/powers (sometimes its a bit too deep to superspeed out of)
Lets take a look at that description, anyways:
"The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut, This hero can deal a ton of distance from a distance."
Well, ton is relative isn't it... scrapper ranged attacks can crit, and controller fire-blasts apparently have better damage than our own. Also our stronger powers all have this particular lack of range I like to call "Melee".
Matter of fact that should read "Can dish out a moderate-to-heavy amount of damage from slightly beyond melee range", considering we end up with less range than villains.
" But the Blaster must be careful, because he's somewhat fragile compared to other heroes."
Somewhat? Somewhat would go with my idea of giving us a small amount of defenses. Tactical playing is more of a jack, really... Take a look at all the margin for error you can do with a tanker. YES being smart will help, but the fact that they can take just about anything tends to cover a lack of tactics a hell of a lot more than most would like to admit. Defense king, Damage queen, Tactical's the jack. but ANYONE can be good at playing, so it doesn't even fall into AT abilities.
Right now its "least defended of all archetypes, barring a specific squid-like form toggle used by the epic AT". Even controllers can get some mitigation; things tend not to mezz YOU too much when they're busy with all those pets... or held and helpless. Somewhat would be maybe a 20~30% and 1 point of mez resistance once all slotted up. That's NOT counting taking 8+ pool powers and running 6 toggles at a time here... Before APP's since those blur lines for EVERYONE.
"The Blaster can't stand toe to toe with most villains at melee rangefor long. His best defense is a great offense!"
Ok that part's true. Note how it doesn't mention he's SAFER at range, but rather that he's far weaker in melee.
Doesn't do anything to explain why all our strongest powers are melee ranged though... Also should read "his ONLY defense is a somewhat above average offense".
If we're to "not infringe on the bosskilling role of scrappers", then why is everyone and their mother wasting minions faster and safer (or as fast and safer, or slightly slower and far far far safer) than we are?
Considering all we DO have is damage, and a handful of single-target holds or caltrops, I'd say everyone is infringing on OUR territory rather heavily, what with the high defense and nearly-or-equally-high(arguably higher in a few specific comparisons) offense.
Mind explaining to me WHY everyone claims we shouldn't step on other people's toes, while they're walking on our heads? A bit hypocritical if you ask me. If we're to be boosted in a way that doesn't step on other people's toes, we'd need a gamebreaking damage boost to bring our damage/defense ratio up to par with a tanker's damage/defense.
That's at LEAST 1.5x our current base damage, and means we'd probably be one-shotting purple minions with 5-slotted snipe. Personally I don't think that's very balanced. But then again, if we're "fine as is", there's only one other way for us to be near the top of the bellcurve.. and I'd rather not see that one swung yet again.
[ QUOTE ]
THEY GET CRITICALS ON THEIR RANGED ATTACKS?
:'( omg I'm going to go hang my blaster now...
he'll get less debt if he stays dead...
So... then what you're telling me SCRAPPERS can "deal a ton of dmg at range" cuz build up, fire blast (if they get it) then a critical...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think my 50th level scrapper does 150 damage or so with six-slotted LBE. That's less than 4-slotted Smite.
Scrappers don't do a lot of ranged damage with EPPs.
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Bingo, and they get eye lasers, are we officially the only AT without Eye lasers yet, or do Controllers still not have them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers have no eye lasers. And I'm with you on this one - I long ago said that blasters need an eye laser blast, and I stand by that assessment. What's the point of having a ranged damage AT if they don't have friggin' lasers shooting out of their eyes?
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[ QUOTE ]
I think my 50th level scrapper does 150 damage or so with six-slotted LBE. That's less than 4-slotted Smite.
Scrappers don't do a lot of ranged damage with EPPs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I felt kinda bad starting that little comment because I didn't have the APP damage multipliers on hand (and sadly, the planners I have don't seem to carry them yet). So it's likely that the Scrapper APP attacks were weakened, but I'm not sure.
Energy Torrent in the Energy Blaster set does 2.2222 times brawl damage and is listed as Moderate damage. I'm not sure what it does for Scrappers, but it's listed as Minor damage, so I wouldn't be suprised to see it be quite weak.
Don't get me wrong - the damage is worthwhile, but there's just not enough ranged damage there to threaten anyone's role.
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Hehe, but you should have seen Kali's face (OK, I couldn't see her face but I think she was probaby surprised) when I mentioned that my AR did 175 points in critical hit damage!
Blasters aren't the only ones with ranged criticals. Of course, I think the chances of an AR crit are pretty darn low but it was fun to see...
[ QUOTE ]
In other words, the blaster was annihilating things because they were too busy shooting at someone else, AND completely helpless and thus unable to turn around and turn him into a bloody carpet-stain when he DID get their attention.
[/ QUOTE ] Exactly. When I play my blaster, I don't touch my AoE attacks unless
A) I'm feeling lucky, or
B) Someone is holding their aggro
Any other time is suicide. Same with my defender, except she can heal herself, but Psyhic Scream has killed me a bunch. I know this. I don't complain when I use my AoE at the wrong time and I die.
1)...Yup..that's why my blaster NEVER starts an attack until someone else aggro's the group first. Can't say many blasters abide by this code.
2) It is ranged attacks keeping him alive. I mean to say the /Regen died from this, not from the trap springing. Because he can attack AWAY from the tanker and the most pit, he can avoid the AoE. When I did Bastion at 27, I died 8 times the first I did it. Attacking mobs surrouding the tanker, repeatedly subjected me to massive AoE and multiple deaths, and I mean multiple. I died more than any blaster on that TF because I had to close to melee to fight and to use my Soul Drain. I finally realized that I had to just forget about getting SD and Shadow Maul cones and attack mobs on the fringe.
In this response you go into ranged "defense." I never said blasters have ranged defense. But being able to attack at range is unequivocably safer. It's not safer if you insist on using AoE's with no one to hold aggro.
[ QUOTE ]
Mind explaining to me WHY everyone claims we shouldn't step on other people's toes, while they're walking on our heads?
[/ QUOTE ] I agree with this. By the mid and late 30's, the other AT's start doing damage...not blaster damage, but here's the thing...the other AT's start to close the gap. The don't close it. Blasters are doing more damage, but the difference isn't nearly as dramatic as it is in the teens and early 20's.
At lvl 28, my D3 just got TT and Night Fall. Night Fall does about 3-6 pts per tick ...if I have TP down. By lvl 35, if I have that puppy six slotted, I still won't be doing blaster damage, but I'll be doing more than enough to take down mobs in acceptable time.
Which underscores my agreement that all the other AT's do infringe on the blaster mega damage perception that is inflated at earlier levels due to circumstances. Blasters get used to doing so much more compartive damage early.
As I've said before and I 'll say again. I have no problem witth them lowering damage of the other AT's, specifically scrappers and Tanks. Just lower endurance as well.
Wow where do you start on the list of Blaster grievances?
I will start with issues like Inferno and Nova which I don't think is mentioned but should be. These 9th Tier nukes can result in the deaths of many of blasters because whatever survives ussually just turns around and Nukes the blaster. I would think whatever would be attacked by a Nuke of such strength would be stunned and such. A blaster should not die after they pop thier 9th Tier nuke on a mob.
Damage and range for blasters is much to be desired. One grievence I think blasters should be listing a lot is the Fact that almost every mob in this game outranges them. The Blasters whole specialty is ranged combat but he is outranged by things that can kill him in Melee..gg.
Another problem is aggro and how they generate SO MUCH HATE. Its a shame really because in large Teams the blaster requires a bodyguard.
Blasters need a Buff in Range, Accuracy, and Defense (not resistance). Thier attacks need too cause Less hate but really Blaster like it or not should be Glass cannons. They have Lots of damage but are pretty fragile. The main problem is they don't have the DPS to save thier [censored].
As for those saying to debuff the damage that Tanks and Scrappers do. You weaken your arguement because it sounds more like your jealous then actaully trying to help your class. Wow nerf Tank damage when only Fire Melee and Energy Melee can actaully do extreme amounts of Damage with two of thier abilities. Battle Axe, Super Strength, Ice Melee, War Mace, and Stone Melee do nothing.
RIght Now I am fighting a lvl 52 Mob. My attack chain is Jab, Air Superiority (Punch blows) , Haymaker (slotted the same as A.S), KO Blow, and Foot Stomp. In that entire line i just did 977 damage and thats with Rage on....
KO blow Six slotted with 3 Hami Damage/Acc and 3 lvl 53 Damage SOs
Haymake 5 slotted 4 Damage 1 end redux
A.S same as Haymaker
Foot Stomp same as Haymaker
Jab 1 slotted damage SO
all are 50++.
Note KO blow and Foot Stomp have a long recharge time SO after the intial burst my OVERALL DPS is drop by well over 60%.
The Blaster with me which is a good friend just did 2000 without her Inferno.... GG I need a nerf.
The risk that something can turn around and one-shot you is probably what the devs thought was balanced risk for the reward of just waltzing into a large mob and getting all that free xp from Nova/Inferno/etc. Luckily TB is a targeted aoe 
I also agree that the range is something to leave lacking, but the dev's likely figured people wouldn't forget about all those pretty range enhancements they give them. Also they were reluctant to change the secondaries from melee powers but I think that idea may be going out the windo with any changes made here. I think I saw somewhere Statesman said he didn't want to do away with melee , but bring them up to the usability of /energy or /devices.
As for the hate you mentioned, since someone previous pointed out the damage difference closes (and I've noticed that greatly with my offender) I still notice that a blaster hits just a bit more than I do, but does generate a lot more hate. So I'd agree with you there that it's unbalanced.
Tankers can't take down mobs fast. they herd them great, but can't do crap for damage. I've seen such a wide variety of power types that the only reason I think they seem unbalanced goes back to that closing gap in the late game. Tanks start getting closer to the Blaster's damage, and since they can handle more in their AoE range, they get more for their buck.
Scrappers do have risks. Their armors are expensive as hell and being that close throwing out power after power without some elaborate dance of toggles and building they have, from what I've seen, go down just as fast as a blaster.
From what I can remember of the original blaster role, they were supposed to be the offensive juggernaut and have some melee powers if an enemy came too close to them.
Summer Heat
[ QUOTE ]
I went away from the computer to check on some CoV stuff and *wham* I received 5 or so PM's asking "what is the Blaster's role?"
Answer - Ranged damage. Now, the issue is more specifically - what does a Blaster do that a Scrapper can't already do? Or, even worse, is a Scrapper inherently "stronger" than a Blaster. We want each Archetype to have a well defined role, and part of our Scrapper testing is aimed directly at this.
Secondly, I have no intention of removing melee attacks - it's just a "perception" by some Blasters that some of the Secondary Sets aren't as useful as Devices or Energy Manipulation. This is a rather frequent refrain in PM's (and the occasional forum post). This is something that we should also explore...we want all the Secondary sets to be fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fine by me...
Ideas?
/Fire Idears
(reference reply #2896841 on page 1)
I hate to say it States, but honestly I see alot of blasters and I have several. VERY FEW secondary powers are used. Sure, you take that first one. You kinda have to. But after that? It's just waiting until you can take that 6 - 9 the Tier power you wanted.
Let's take Energy Manip into account. Build Up, sure. Energy Mastery sure. But Bonebreaker? Energy Punch?
The idea of the blaster is that they should be "head shotting" most of the incoming baddies BEFORE they get to you. Sure, some of them will survive, and make it to you, so you have to resort to throwing punches, Energy Torrent, Nova and so on. But honestly, if you're a blaster taking on 3 baddies at 80 yds, at even con, NONE of them should make it to you.
Blasters right now are too weak, too inaccurate, and too frail.
I read this great passage in the COH manual. Maybe you'll remember it.
[ QUOTE ]
Blasters were the kids in school that could launch a spitwad all the way from the back of the classroom and still have it smash into the chalkboard with enough force to actually leave cracks in the slate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone with a Blaster out there who thinks this statement applies to their character currently? Not me. When it takes me 15 shots to take down an even con baddie, that's not power. 1/3 of those shots miss. Every one of my shots has 4 SO Damage, 1 SO End Red, and 1 SO Acc. So, why do I see Scrappers who can stand in the middle of a large group, soaking up damage, and then dishing it out in incredible amounts, taking out a dozen in the time it takes me to down a single baddie, if I don't die in the attempt? Why am I so often left hoping that I get some help to drop this baddie, before he drops me, when the other combat AT's don't have this problem at all?
To be honest, the role is severly skewed.
Tanker - Stand there and take it.
Scrapper - Dish it out up close
Defender - Keep the others healthy
Controller - Mess with the baddies
Kheld - pick your own role, or hide from Quantums
Blaster - Keep the floor warm or hide from everything. (should say Dish it out at Range)
A Blaster SHOULD be able to take out numerous baddies at the same rate the scrapper does. But I'm seeing scrappers do 80% more damage than I can as a blaster, while their survivability is also greater. Sure, I don't think a blaster should be able to stand toe to toe with even con's and live long. But I also dont think that most of those even cons should live through the fusilade of shots the Blaster should be throwing at them.
It's a 4 point system of problems.
1. Low damage per shot
2. High Endurance cost per shot
3. High Recharge rate per shot
4. Low HP.
Can it be fixed? Maybe. Should it? Certainly.
Well spoken. Stars to you.
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
They thought something that 'probably will' take out 8/10ths of the less-than-red minions, half the lt's and none of the bosses in exchange for waltzing into melee, dropping what little toggles we have and burning out all our endurance was balanced? ... well maybe, but WAY too situational to be of real use.
Range enhancements are laughable. Problem is how low they are [20% means you need 5 just for you power-bolt to even out with the average late 30's SMG], and what you're paying for this:
DAMAGE ENHANCEMENTS ARE NOT ENHANCING DAMAGE. That's right, damage enhancements do little more than allow you to keep up. They're an actual boost right when you get'em, but enemy HP scales up such that for the other 10 levels you have'em for, they're actually doing little more than letting you keep up.
So taking those range enhancements means your damage no longer keeps up [by this I mean you can't take out minions in as many shots as you used to back in steel canyon with DO's or atlas with TO's], making the fight longer and thus more dangerous to you. You're burning off more than half of your damage JUST TO CATCH UP to a large number of *minion* ranges!
Of course by around level 40, we're lacking the next step in enhancements, probably 50% [the hamios would still be special since they affect 2 at once]. we've also been having trouble keeping up due to the cap, which we started being able to hit back in the 20's.
Tankers don't take mobs down all that fast, true. Unfortunately in my experience this is because said herd is red or purple to the guy... not yellow.
[ QUOTE ]
Energy Torrent in the Energy Blaster set does 2.2222 times brawl damage and is listed as Moderate damage. I'm not sure what it does for Scrappers, but it's listed as Minor damage, so I wouldn't be suprised to see it be quite weak.
[/ QUOTE ]
Weak my [censored].
In my team there was a Scrapper that was using his version of ET along with a Spines power to two-shot oranges.
I bet he could be two-shotting reds, as well.
His version might crit, too, and uses scrapper damage caps [500%]
Woot, woot.
Don't forget that it's a knock-DOWN, too, not a knock-back-and-scatter-to-the-four-winds.
Yeah, would someone care to explain to me why it's ok for Scrappers to get better ranged AoE's than me? Especially when it's an AoE from my primary that they're getting through an APP.
[ QUOTE ]
Woot, woot.
Don't forget that it's a knock-DOWN, too, not a knock-back-and-scatter-to-the-four-winds.
Yeah, would someone care to explain to me why it's ok for Scrappers to get better ranged AoE's than me? Especially when it's an AoE from my primary that they're getting through an APP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget....they get critical hits on their ranged attacks too. Cuz they're at risk. 
[ QUOTE ]
Woot, woot.
Don't forget that it's a knock-DOWN, too, not a knock-back-and-scatter-to-the-four-winds.
Yeah, would someone care to explain to me why it's ok for Scrappers to get better ranged AoE's than me? Especially when it's an AoE from my primary that they're getting through an APP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, but first...why is blaster TI through an EPP better than scrapper TI through a secondary?
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[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget....they get critical hits on their ranged attacks too. Cuz they're at risk.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, scrappers get critical hits on all of their attacks because that's a scrapper perk.
It seems clear to me that blasters could use some perks as well - and that was the thrust of a few of my suggestions in earlier threads. Blasters already have a few (75% endurance costs on everything, for example), but it's not really enough.
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[ QUOTE ]
Sure, but first...why is blaster TI through an EPP better than scrapper TI through a secondary?
[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason I can see for this, though its a pretty good one in my mind, is that we've got very little [none in fact unless you use 'tough'] other +res to stack it with, and very little defense to stack it with also.
Since the higher you go the better the return on adding more [until you cap of course] for defense and resists, and since they stack together, we're effectively still getting less out of TI than a scrapper with slightly lower % from it. If I were to guess [and I did], I'd say that's why its slightly higher.
I don't mind that theirs does knockdown instead of knockback... but the crits + %cap getting combined is a slap in the face, considering they're not losing anything for it [you know, like HP+mezprotect+defense+res all combined].
However, I'd rather see OUR powers get upgraded so as to be superior, rather than see theirs nerfed.
edit: on the endurance costs issue; on every team I'm on, the first ones to run out of blue-juice are always the blasters [and sometimes the defender]... Well, until stamina kicks in at 20 and the bar all-but-stops dropping completely...
I actually wouldn't mind losing THIS perk in exchange for some REAL ones. This one helps us mildly in the early game [that part we breeze through? maybe this is helping it a bit for that?] and doesn't really apply in the lategame [for most blasters I've teamed with, and of course the ones I'm playing as] unless we're REALLY overdoing it.
I will admit that I'm not using hasten though; but the 'pauses' in my attack chain are very few and far-between [Torrent, Snipe, bolt, blast, powerpush, bolt..], so except in the really really long battles... nothing carrying one or two blues per mission won't fix.
Each of the three scrapper EPPs has two ranged attacks...one could argue that Dark Mastery has three, but two of them have control aspects (immobilize, knockback) as opposed to damage - so Dark Blast is the only power in that set that presents any damage comparable to a first or second tier blaster attack. Body Mastery has two good ranged attacks with Laser Beam Eyes (single-target) and Energy Torrent (cone, knockdown). These are not an attack cycle - a scrapper with ranged attacks still needs to get into melee range to deal a lot of damage. If my scrapper sat at range and only alternated LBE + Energy Torrent, she'd never approach blaster damage. Even if I six-slotted both of them. I'd have to get up close and use Smite, Shadow Maul, and Midnight Grasp.
I don't have direct experience with the Weapon Mastery EPP (although I will test it out soon). It has two ranged attacks - Shuriken and Exploding Shuriken. I would guess that these are comparable to ET and LBE.
So I think that's why scrappers get the full 500% cap and the critical chances with the EPP ranged attacks - it doesn't make a huge difference in the long run.
Getting upset about scrappers having that cap and those criticals on the ranged attacks strikes me as a red herring. If scrappers somehow had access to entire blast sets and the ability to slot them out, that'd be something to worry about.
There's plenty of other very good reasons to be unhappy or angry that blasters don't have a 500% damage cap along with or instead of scrappers, though. Like, the whole risk vs. reward argument does not play out just as people have described. Blasters are at greater risk than scrappers because the game environment simply does not favor blaster advantages and exploits blaster weaknesses, and because the blaster primary/secondary design does not necessary synergize well to facilitate range as a viable defense.
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[ QUOTE ]
DAMAGE ENHANCEMENTS ARE NOT ENHANCING DAMAGE. That's right, damage enhancements do little more than allow you to keep up. They're an actual boost right when you get'em, but enemy HP scales up such that for the other 10 levels you have'em for, they're actually doing little more than letting you keep up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, once you reach the 40's, they do even less than that. A Blaster is arguably less effective against even-con enemies at 50 than they are at 30, since mob HPs and resistances scale up faster than player damage does; a 'two hit kill' becomes 'two hits and a sliver of HP' left. This is true for every AT, but they have control or defense to fall back onto. And it's doubly painful for single-target-focused sets like Energy and Elec, since having to take an extra attack to defeat a foe means that's another second or two they and their friends are shooting you.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, once you reach the 40's, they do even less than that. A Blaster is arguably less effective against even-con enemies at 50 than they are at 30, since mob HPs and resistances scale up faster than player damage does; a 'two hit kill' becomes 'two hits and a sliver of HP' left. This is true for every AT, but they have control or defense to fall back onto. And it's doubly painful for single-target-focused sets like Energy and Elec, since having to take an extra attack to defeat a foe means that's another second or two they and their friends are shooting you.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's also the frustrating effect of getting them to a sliver and missing with the final followup... That's mainly bad luck, though.
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Bingo, and they get eye lasers, are we officially the only AT without Eye lasers yet, or do Controllers still not have them?