I see. As I suspected, I was missing your point.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
::walks into thread munching popcorn::
Hey guys what's going on? Am I missing something? Wow, lot of the vets are out and posting. Oh god, numbers, nooooo.
::gets mezzed by numbers::
Oh yeah, and I guess my other point is that ED's nerfing of our damage made us a lot less surviveable.
I guess I wasn't clear on that either.
I had much less trouble surviving solo with my Blasters when you could 4, 5, and 6-slot for damage. Damage was a big part of my defense, as killing them before they can kill you is very powerful.
Heck, on my lower level Scrappers, I sometimes find that frontloaded damage is a better defense than anything I can grab in their secondaries at the time.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
In I5 Invuln scrappers went from 66% to 33% damage resistance [non-S/L] and Invincibility lost about half its defense. So twice as many hits got through and a lot of it hit twice as hard. (S/L is between 1/3 and 2/3 of damage taken; I've heard different numbers.)
In I6 that 33% went to 20.6% [S/L went from 75% to 56%] and Invincibility lost a little more.
So, yeah, about a factor of 5 or 6.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it was only a 46% loss? Because earlier in this very post, you brush aside somebody correcting you that the cap buff to blasters was a 25% increase in cap (or a factor of 25%), not a straight 100%. If 400+100=500, then 66-20=46%.
Or do you just choose whichever method suits you?
(and yes, I apologize for the misplaced decimal and poorly drawn conclusion that stemmed from my error earlier)
[ QUOTE ]
::walks into thread munching popcorn::
Hey guys what's going on? Am I missing something? Wow, lot of the vets are out and posting. Oh god, numbers, nooooo.
::gets mezzed by numbers::
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the party, Neutra. Enjoying the view?
@Shenalia
Triumph: Ion Force (SG)
Victory: Evil Triumphs (VG)
Proud member of the Triumphant Defenders Coalition.
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Ohms: I've noticed that whenever you start to lose on a particular point, you change the subject.
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Change the subject? Exactly how am I changing the subject? You're posting a friggin' sob-story about how tough Scrappers have it, and I'm disagreeing with it. Instead of actually dealing with points made, you obfuscate matters by turning things personal, making accusations, misrepresenting points actually made, and when that doesn't fly either, you blow the whole thing off with crap like this?
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lol ohm's i'm with you on this one i've got an ice/eng main and lvling up a spines/regen, scrappers definately DO NOT have it tough playing the scrapper is alot easier than the blaster. I don't have to worry so much about dying so mcuh with my scrapper, unlike the intense micro managment of being a blaster monitoring your health bar picking out the correct target first and dancing arond his/her friends while attacking the target. integration pretty much makes u forget about mezz attacks unlike blasters which im alrdy familiar with pretty much all of the hold powers lol that appears on my screen and be quick on popping that bf. Ohhh and about the damage issue scrappers definately comes close to blaster damage, there isn't that much gap to warrent scrappers getting def or damage mitigation secondaries.
The blaster's job is to ineffectively tank and collect debt in lieu of the rest of the team.
Salvo's spot on.
Offense can be defense when you have enough of it.
Sadly, my Glass Cannon is missing some of it's powder.
All I'm asking is one attack , Ranged, that right out of the box (No enhancements etc.) drops a even con minion cold dead in his tracks.
Thats it.
The Animation can be the toon throwing a water balloon for all I care while blowing a party favor wearing floppy clown shows.
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I hear what you are saying, and disagree. Just because you have done something different than I have neither invalidates your opinion, nor mine. It just makes them different.
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He's correct about the difference though. The 40-50 game (as opposed to the 1-40 game) is a drastically different beast for blasters than it is for a number of other ATs. Many people who've run blasters through those levels have remarked on the difference as difficulty ramps up and ability to solo drops way down during that level range.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In I5 Invuln scrappers went from 66% to 33% damage resistance [non-S/L] and Invincibility lost about half its defense. So twice as many hits got through and a lot of it hit twice as hard. (S/L is between 1/3 and 2/3 of damage taken; I've heard different numbers.)
In I6 that 33% went to 20.6% [S/L went from 75% to 56%] and Invincibility lost a little more.
So, yeah, about a factor of 5 or 6.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it was only a 46% loss? Because earlier in this very post, you brush aside somebody correcting you that the cap buff to blasters was a 25% increase in cap (or a factor of 25%), not a straight 100%. If 400+100=500, then 66-20=46%.
Or do you just choose whichever method suits you?
(and yes, I apologize for the misplaced decimal and poorly drawn conclusion that stemmed from my error earlier)
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a fair point. I haven't been using consistent terminology.
Any suggestions for how to properly refer to the difference between the 100% between 400 and 500%, vs. the 100% between "living 10 seconds" and "living 20 seconds" ?
I could use percentages for "straight percentages" [so 66% to 33% is 33%] and multipliers for "relative percentages" [so 66% to 33% is .5]. Does this seem like a reasonable solution?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Doubleposting to discuss:
[ QUOTE ]
He's correct about the difference though. The 40-50 game (as opposed to the 1-40 game) is a drastically different beast for blasters than it is for a number of other ATs. Many people who've run blasters through those levels have remarked on the difference as difficulty ramps up and ability to solo drops way down during that level range
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, my experience has been that 41-50 is drastically different, and harder, for all AT's than 1-40 is. [I might even put the tipping point at level 38, when the Envoy of Shadows shows up.]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
Doubleposting to discuss:
[ QUOTE ]
He's correct about the difference though. The 40-50 game (as opposed to the 1-40 game) is a drastically different beast for blasters than it is for a number of other ATs. Many people who've run blasters through those levels have remarked on the difference as difficulty ramps up and ability to solo drops way down during that level range
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, my experience has been that 41-50 is drastically different, and harder, for all AT's than 1-40 is. [I might even put the tipping point at level 38, when the Envoy of Shadows shows up.]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I guess we have different experiences then. I've been running solo and teamed on Invinc with my scrapper the last little while through the early 40s and havent noticed a signficant change in difficulty, even vs harder foes like Malta and Carnies. Prior to that I bumped down to Tenacious for the Envoy arc, and had little trouble with him after the first encounter when I stumbled upon him a little room in Oranbega.
Compared to the notable decline in survivability my AR/Ice Blaster encountered in the 40+ game during the Issue Four era (I hit 50 with him just prior to I5) its a much easier experience, and a smoother transistion from the 30s to the 40s.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
Doubleposting to discuss:
[ QUOTE ]
He's correct about the difference though. The 40-50 game (as opposed to the 1-40 game) is a drastically different beast for blasters than it is for a number of other ATs. Many people who've run blasters through those levels have remarked on the difference as difficulty ramps up and ability to solo drops way down during that level range
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, my experience has been that 41-50 is drastically different, and harder, for all AT's than 1-40 is. [I might even put the tipping point at level 38, when the Envoy of Shadows shows up.]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say that my difficulty with my toons went up much higher with my Blasters and Defenders than it did with any other toon. Some of characters didn't even feel the shift when I started fighting Malta and the Knives of Artemis. Some ATs are more resiliant than others is the what I have experienced Solo. In teams, the difference is much less pronounced. I'll give ya that.
[ QUOTE ]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Was she soloing, or duoing with you? If she was duoing with you, it's a whole different ballgame than if she was soloing. I plan to get to 50 with Arc Salvo by teaming only. I really just don't like the vast amounts of mezz so many 40-50 villain groups have.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Was she soloing, or duoing with you? If she was duoing with you, it's a whole different ballgame than if she was soloing. I plan to get to 50 with Arc Salvo by teaming only. I really just don't like the vast amounts of mezz so many 40-50 villain groups have.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, when teamed or running a duo, a Blaster can use this to his or her advantage. They're no more survivable than they ever were, they're simply using their teammates to offset their weakness.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 14-16 in my sig is from the "Issue 4 sprint to 50." At some point around level 43 or so [I don't remember exactly] I started counting how many times Boltcutter, my Scrapper, died, vs how many times Aurora Forge [my wife; Fire/fire blaster] died. She died 1.14 times as much as I did.
(She did spend a WHOLE lot more time staring at her screen, mezzed, than I did. And I agree that that is a problem.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Was she soloing, or duoing with you? If she was duoing with you, it's a whole different ballgame than if she was soloing. I plan to get to 50 with Arc Salvo by teaming only. I really just don't like the vast amounts of mezz so many 40-50 villain groups have.
[/ QUOTE ]
We were grouping the whole way from 41-50. It was fun and social and we got really good at it.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
We were grouping the whole way from 41-50. It was fun and social and we got really good at it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There you have it.
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So with your MA/SR you went from fighting +3s ["red/purple"] to +1s ["yellow/orange" - or bosses with lots of insps] and with your AR/DEV you went from +3s including Lieuts (ie red and purple) to +2s and +1s (ie yellow and orange).
What am I missing?
[/ QUOTE ]
edit: Yeah, the other posters basically got it. My Scrapper fights more and tougher enemies than my Blasters with ease, and is in no risk of dying unless I do something totally stupid. With my Blasters, even fighting what I can "reasonably" deal with, I'm always in constant risk, and the margin for error is a lot slimmer, particularly when there's mezzing involved.
With my Scrapper, I actually spent most of my 40-50 time herding my (outdated) unyielding missions, although I never tried to herd more than +2's.
I would never think of playing that way with any of my Blasters.
[Original Post Below]
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Eh, sorry, I was rambling more than I was explaining precisely.
The key factors in question are damage vs. survivability, right?
Well with Arc, I can and do solo up to +2's, but it's very risky, as if I make one false move and/or get unlucky I die very quickly, sometimes repeatedly.
Generally, I solo even cons and +1's, and if I have enough of the right kinds of insps, +2's, and if I have a lot of insps of the right kinds, +3's.
But I avoid bosses as I didn't take the blaps in /Energy, and thus have poor single target damage and mitigation.
On my Scrapper, I can fight up to +3's and +4's with regularity, but don't, because I only slotted 1 acc in all of my attacks, and find the number of misses I get when fighting +3's and +4's with my Scrapper to be annoying.
I also fight bosses, which I don't do with Arc, although I usually pop at least 1 luck to supplement /SR's toggles and passives, or just hit Elude to spare myself the trouble of micro-managing the fight.
Anyhow, my basic point is that Scrappers are still much more survivable than Blasters.
Note that I also believe that even after the nerfs, that I wholeheartedly believe that Assault Rifle/Energy (and Assault Rifle/non-devices in general) is still balanced very well vs. what Scrappers can put out. I may complain about other primaries and secondaries, but I dont' complain about Assault Rifle because buildup+flamethrower+buckshot (or m30 grenade) + full auto does 2 more BI than aim+buildup+nova, and is available every 45 seconds to me. No matter how powerful they are, individual Scrappers just can't even come close to that level of aoe carnage.
Anyhow, I also believe that with a few tweaks to primaries and secondaries, Blasters will be competetive enough overall vs Scrappers to where I'd say we'd be fixed, but I've said what I think needs to be done in enough other threads, I think.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*