[ QUOTE ]
Since Superman is all about soaring the skies, I picked flight and stuck with it... Slow as it is, flight screams superhero...for a Superman tribute, it must be the main travel power.
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Then again... "Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!" That's how I rationalized sticking with SJ, at least. He's, uh... he's going back to his roots, that's the ticket!
Either fits, and late in my build I have Superspeed and Whirlwind too, since...both of those are powers Superman (and Supergirl to a lesser extent) used. Well...actually she made better use of Whirlwind than he did (using the movies as reference anyway) The only use of Whirlwind Superman had (and this is a streach) was drilling down into Lex Luthor's hideout in Superman: The Movie whereas Supergirl used it to defeat Selena Kyle in her own movie. She used the Superspeed to type out a letter from Clark Kent, (and perhaps to change clothes really fast) but otherwise never used it. Clark used his 1 or 2 times in the movies, most notably to outrun a train. Yes, I agree Superjump works for him too, and in reality Superman can likely do anything in the Speed Pool, anything in the Fitness pool, anything in the Flight Pool (plus some) anything in the Jumping Pool, the entire Energy Mastry pool (even Energy Torrent, if you're going Erradicator/Supergirl from Smallville or the "new" Superboy) and half of the Arctic Mastery Pool. But again...it's sort of a compromise.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
A while back I posted that I had dug up Cpt. Liberty and was planning to rebuild him. Anyways, Cpt. Liberty is now lvl 28, and I just got Rage. Oh my gosh, this thing deserves the full 6 on the happy meter! It's like taking elephant steroids! (Not that I have any experience with that... none whatsoever) I'd like to thank you again Havok, for making an awesome guide. I've reffered to it at every stage of my tank's growth, and I can't imagine getting allong without it.
Keep up the awesome work!
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Glad to hear you having success Demo!
Rage is good fun 
Havok, I hate you. I was duo'ing with me (ill/empathy controller) and a scrapper (?/regen). We cleared out the mission except for Dr. V (AV). We tried to take him down but barely made a dent before having to retreat.
Recruited a tanker and while waiting for him, discussed tactics. My job was to simply heal while the others did the damage (since my holds barely took).
Tank arrives and states he is going to check the room where Dr. V is. Scrapper and I waited a bit and then I decided to turn invis and enter the room. The tank is exchanging blows with Dr. V!! I couldn't tell what he was doing from any health loss on the team window, I knew he was doing this by actually seeing him EXCHANGING blows with Dr. V.
I call the scrapper to . . . help? . . . the tanker and instead of me being relagated to healing, I threw out some spectral wounds as to not appear like an xp leech.
After the fight when I exclaimed that I was impressed with the tanker's abilities, he simply said, "Superman build. Thanks for the team, but I got to go."
Dang you havok, Now I have to delete an alt to make a "superman" tanker. (say "bye bye" fragile-perma debt blaster I never play anymore) 
I love reading experiences like this!
Havok, Kara is 20 now, and she is impressing people already!
Started to do Synapse's TF (eventually had everyone abandon it so I soloed until I hit 20) and had two guys try to give me grief for not having Taunt. Reminded them they had no right to tell me how to play my character, and that I mostly solo and am helping THEM out. I never needed Taunt to hold aggro!
Once they left, I continued on with the defender for a while, explaining to her on how to solo by taking your time to keep endurance up. She was amazed that my health never dipped below 90% IF it dipped at all! After she left, I continued to solo the TF until hitting 20, then abandoned to earn costume and cape.
At 20, I helped out a friend's Defender and she was AMAZED! Same reason, I never seemed to get hurt, and with Stamina I never needed to slow down! 
Invincibility is just that good! I took the time to explain my play style and build to her, directed her to find this thread, and she is making her own Invul/SS tanker now!
Thank you darlin, this build really IS making Kara into Supergirl!
Kimmie, damn pleased with her build!
FYI: my post on the BI thread
[ QUOTE ]
Scrapper Body Mastery:
Energy Torrent: 0.83 smashing + 1.83 energy
I must smaked about 50 hellions around making sure. Always the same numbers:
Brawl = 112.95 smashing
Energy Torrent = 94.12 smashing + 207.08 energy
[/ QUOTE ]
I assume that Scrapper & Tanker version have the same BI.
Not to damaging. 120 degree cone, 20ft range. Not to shabby. Oh, and knockdown.
[ QUOTE ]
A while back I posted that I had dug up Cpt. Liberty and was planning to rebuild him. Anyways, Cpt. Liberty is now lvl 28, and I just got Rage. Oh my gosh, this thing deserves the full 6 on the happy meter! It's like taking elephant steroids! (Not that I have any experience with that... none whatsoever) I'd like to thank you again Havok, for making an awesome guide. I've reffered to it at every stage of my tank's growth, and I can't imagine getting allong without it.
Keep up the awesome work!
[/ QUOTE ]
Same experience with Pax (my INV/SS), but I am deviating from your build. Grabbed Taunt at L6.
/em shrug
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Havok, I hate you.
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lol ... glad to see another satisfied customer
[ QUOTE ]
Havok, Kara is 20 now, and she is impressing people already!
[/ QUOTE ]
Woot!
I have to say wait till you hit 22 
... SO's will transform your life ... rage is like the final piece of the puzzle
Started my tanker build last night and while on a team a scrapper began to tell me how to build my hero (in a know-it-all kind of way). I simply stated that i was doing the "superman" build and he just said "ah" and shutted up the rest of the mission. That was nice.
Now for a newbie tank question. Although I like the damage output making this build soloable, I do like to team a lot. I notice that taunt is taken late. You have done a lot of testing of this build and I really don't want to monkey around with it so is there a way to hold aggro without taunt?
Should I move up and push back everything?
Rely on punch provoke?
I know a tank doesn't NEED taunt, but . . . I don't know . . . can I be an adequete team tanker without it till lvl 30?
Again thank you for this guide and the work you did making it.
All Superstrenght attacks have a built in AoE taunt set a point blank. Just hit someone and you will get their attention as well as that of their friends.
Invincibility (level 18) also has a taunt component. It increases defense based on the number of foes in melee range, increases your accuracy, and taunts.
My advice for pulling is to have a member with range attacks give someone a "love tap" and then punch the foe once they close. If I have a party to back me up, I tend to run straight into an area and wail on the boss. Attacking the boss tends to focus all aggro on you.
LTs also get upset once attacked, and that helps the minions focus on you also. Once you have their attention and all of them attacking you, start picking off any that you wish.
So far, I have not needed taunt. It's a handy power to pull with, but so is a ranged attack followed with falling back around a corner. Ranged foes always close when you round a corner.
If you wish to move things up and change the order, go ahead but keep certain powers for when they first come up. Invincibility at 18 is a must. Unyeilding early on is too. You will want Stamina, Haymaker, and Knockout Blow as early as possible. My tinkering had Air Superiority brought in early, Fly at 14, and delay Resist Energies and Resist Elements until 26 and 30. You do have room to play around a bit.
Happy hunting!
Kimmie, who is taking Whirlwind instead of Taunt, because I can't see Supergirl talking smack to get attacked, but I can see her spinning around tossing foes!
Heh ... Kimmie pretty much nailed it.
Now if you want better aggro control early on (pre-18th) then you can go ahead and take Taunt at 12 instead of Resist Elements and push RElD back.
My personal opinion is that early on (pre-18) you don't need the really good aggro control due to pulling most mobs 1 spawn at a time with Punch-voke. However if you don't run with Controllers or have a group that loves to grab that aggro and you absolutely must then, yes, grab Taunt at 12.
At 18 though you get Invincibility and that should tide you till you get Taunt.
Havok,
Quick question from a relative newbie. Which secondary set to you recommend/prefer, EM or SS. Also, which one is the better damage dealer and what are some of the pros and cons to both.
Your answers will help me to decide between the two for an Inv build I would like to create.
Thanks.
Well its been some time since ive posted, and i figured i would stop by with how this build and the direction im taking it are working for me.
Well im level 30 now , and to put a finger on just how effective i find this build i was taking +6 and +7 mobs at 29 for a group of 33-35, mobs were 35-36 between minions, lt's, bosses. And i STILL could herd them 15-30 at a time!, granted a few pulls i had to use dull as a heal/buffer, but then kept it up in combat (auto). I LOVE this build .
Here is the direction ive decided will work best for my play style. Key changes are Taunt early on, no Hover instead im getting Combat Jumping and socketing it the same but with Defbuff's, and losing Whirlwind for Super Jump.
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength
01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(3) dam(5) dam(7) dam(37)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(19) recred(21)
06 : Hasten recred(06) recred(7) recred(15) recred(15) recred(17) recred(19)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11) damres(13)
10 : Taunt tntdur(10)
12 : Resist Elements damres(12) damres(13) damres(17) damres(21) damres(23) damres(31)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14)
16 : Hurdle jmp(16)
18 : Invincibility thtbuf(18) thtbuf(48) defbuf(48) defbuf(50) defbuf(50)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(27) endrec(27) endrec(29) endrec(29)
24 : Haymaker dam(24) dam(25) dam(25) dam(31) dam(33) dam(34)
26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(31) damres(33) damres(34) damres(36) damres(37)
28 : Rage recred(28)
30 : Knockout Blow endred(30) dam(33) dam(34) dam(36) dam(36) dam(37)
32 : Air Superiority dam(32) dam(40) dam(43) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45)
35 : Combat Jumping defbuf(35) defbuf(46) defbuf(46) defbuf(46) defbuf(48) defbuf(50)
38 : Foot Stomp endred(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Resist Physical Damage damres(44)
47 : Super Jump jmp(47)
49 : Unstoppable recred(49)
-------------------------------------------
01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)
Thanks for all the inspiration and to behonest your guide has been a HUGE help, i still function exactly the same way but have a few "personal" touchs i felt work best for me.
[ QUOTE ]
i still function exactly the same way but have a few "personal" touchs i felt work best for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's the key here. Iregardless of if you follow Havok's build or not, he still "teaches" (as does this entire thread) you how to build an effective Invuln/SS tank. I.e. that Dull Pain (4 or 6 slotted depending on Hasten) can be a wonderful thing, that perhaps you don't need taunt (the groups I travel with tend to need it, as they die if I don't, they're all a bunch of aggro-whores;P) That you don't need ResPD (or if you do take it, you do so because you've run out of stuff you want) that Hover can own you, that A good solid attack set is good for a tank too (Haymaker/KO/AS/Punch), that Rage will own your world, and if you choose to go Superspeed, Whirlwind will also own your world *grins* he just provides a lot of good, solid Superman-like building strategies, and though my build differs significantly (and I still pray for they day when the End costs are reduced in such a way that Stam isn't basically required for most builds (especially IMO Inv/SS tanks) so I can get those 3 slots back *grins* Regardless of how you vary, if you keep Havok's basic ideas and principals in mind, you'll like what your tank can do (and impress a lot of others). *Gets down off of Soapbox*
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
I concur. Havok shows us what works, what does not, and most importantly WHY.
He and the others also show when a power caps, whether a power is worth slots, what to slot to get a result you desire, and how to differ a build if you chose to use hasten or not.
My new Scrapper build is actually very close to Havok's Tanker build, for this thread is just that solid. I took what he listed for Invulnerability here, what he said for Spines in another thread, and fused the two to make my Scrapper. His advice is just that good.
Kudos Havok! You and the others who come to give advice as what makes this community great!
Kimmie, off to play Kara Lokisons some more.
[ QUOTE ]
Started my tanker build last night and while on a team a scrapper began to tell me how to build my hero (in a know-it-all kind of way). I simply stated that i was doing the "superman" build and he just said "ah" and shutted up the rest of the mission. That was nice.
Now for a newbie tank question. Although I like the damage output making this build soloable, I do like to team a lot. I notice that taunt is taken late. You have done a lot of testing of this build and I really don't want to monkey around with it so is there a way to hold aggro without taunt?
Should I move up and push back everything?
Rely on punch provoke?
I know a tank doesn't NEED taunt, but . . . I don't know . . . can I be an adequete team tanker without it till lvl 30?
Again thank you for this guide and the work you did making it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I took taunt around 26 or so, and I love it. It's great for herding reluctant mobs, and in a team, as long as all the baddies are in one place, you'll be loved. I managed to hold aggro on about 8 of those Council robot bosses along with about 20 assorted minions and LTs AT ONCE during the Ernesto Hess TF. At the same time, a Fire blaster and Spines scrapper were tearing the guys up. Nobody died. At the very end, I tanked Burkholder and fought him mano a mano. Of course, I could hardly dent him (this was before I took Rage, after all), but my team's scrappers and blasters provided the pain necessary to bring him to his knees. In the end, the ONLY death came from this guy who failed to get out of the base before it 'sploded.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Being that there has been may requests and no current Issue-4 Invuln/EM guide, I just made one. So here it is:
Immortal-Nites Invuln/EM Guide for I-4
A Defender friend of mine invited my level 22 to help her on a council mission. The mobs were levels 24-27 and I have no problem holding aggro with just invincibility and the occassional attack. I got there early to see how well I could take the hits, and was fine, so I practiced rounding the foes up to herd once my friend arrived. I'd run into a group, hit someone in center, jump off to the next group, hit, and move some more.
All I had to do to hold the aggro was stop every once in a while and hit some people in the center of the PBoA taunt radius. I was herding +5s just fine without taunt (Mechmen, Adjunts, etc.). Just focused on taking out the Qs as my energy resistance isn't very high yet.
I will play with taunt on the test server once I earn a respec, but last night I proved it wasn't needed (and that I am much tougher than I had realized!).
I AM Supergirl!
Kimmie, debating on changing Kara's hair from brown to blond to make her resemble Kara Zor-El more.
Kara is level 25 now and ran into an interesting problem when tanking for higher ups... Blasters don't know that they need to hold back on damage so the tank can hold the foe! Blasters, as squishies, don't like to be beat up on. Imagine that...
So I decided to drop Unstoppable from Kara's build at 32 (was told the crash when it wears off nearly guarantees instant death from foes) in favor of Taunt, the power I don't want to take. Why take it? Because squishies don't like to be squished, and do stupid things to ensure they WILL be squished. Never ever peel off foes from your tank. Sure it's fun to show off, IF YOU CAN TAKE IT!
I am also switching the order of Resist Energies and Resist Elements. I am seeing Energy attacks more when I help higher ups, and the elemental attacks aren't scratching me. Seriously considering dropping Resist Elements altogether, but would prefer to have all of my resistances maxed just in case I need them.
Consider this a respec build at 32 or something. Reason being is that when I do respec, I am considering dropping fly for hover with 6 slots for speed. Why? Simple, the 5% Defense from Hover, combined with the 5% Defense from Hasten, will give me a total of 10% resistance to Psionics, the one attack form I cannot resist at all. 10% is better than nothing. You may wish to consider taking one slot from Focused Accuracy and giving it to Hover to max its speed (roughly the same as base Fly speed without the endurance, drift, or suppression). Once I have Focused Accuracy, I intend to change the To Hit buffs in Invincibility into Defense for some truely sickening protection from all! Also, once I have Hover, I won't need Hurdle, so might as well grab Swift to stack with Superspeed.
One great thing about this build as it is, is that you can run all your toggles save for Superspeed, use the endurance hog of Whirlwind, and still regain 0.3 endurance per second at level 50 with +2 enhancements in the slots. Yes, you CAN run Whirlwind and still come out ahead on Endurance! FA will drain 0.59 endurance per second, but even still you can regain 1.14 stamina with it on! You could also drop the To Hit buff in FA and switch to Endurance Reduction to save another 0.09 endurance per second.
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength
01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(5) dam(3) dam(3) dam(39) dam(36)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(7) recred(7)
06 : Air Superiority dam(06) dam(9) dam(9) dam(40) dam(40) dam(36)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(11) damres(11) damres(17) damres(17) damres(40)
10 : Hurdle jmp(10)
12 : Haymaker dam(12) dam(13) dam(13) dam(37) dam(46) dam(46)
14 : Hover fltspd(14) fltspd(15) fltspd(15) fltspd(39) fltspd(39)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Invincibility defbuf(18) thtbuf(19) thtbuf(19)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(25)
22 : Knockout Blow endred(22) dam(43) dam(46) dam(50) dam(37) dam(37)
24 : Hasten recred(24) recred(25) recred(27) recred(27) recred(29) recred(29)
26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(31) damres(31) damres(31) damres(33) damres(33)
28 : Rage recred(28)
30 : Resist Elements damres(30) damres(33) damres(34) damres(34) damres(34) damres(36)
32 : Taunt tntdur(32)
35 : Super Speed runspd(35)
38 : Foot Stomp endred(38) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48) dam(50) dam(45)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Focused Accuracy thtbuf(44) endred(45) endred(50) endred(45)
47 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(47)
49 : Whirlwind endred(49)
-------------------------------------------
01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)
LOL Looking over this build, it comes so close to Havok's as to make me wonder why I had to change the order of things. Whirlwind instead of Unstoppable, Focused Accuracy instead of RPD, but otherwise the same. Havok, have I told you lately that you kick [censored]? Well, you do darlin!
For my concept Superjump is a must and Superspeed isn't in character, and propably not hover 
(though I may try to work it in at 49 in place of unstoppable). So its a 'Not Quite Superman' Build . I'm still looking at what I want to do, so I am waiting to 24 to do the respec (23 now). Currently my character doesn't have temp invuln at all, but I am planning to respec close to Havok's build. To get Superjump I will likely move resist elements to 32 and Air Superiority to 35, then take combat jumping at 12 and Superjump at 14.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you CAN run Whirlwind and still come out ahead on Endurance!
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I just have to discuss this. It came up in another thread and I had been meaning to ask Havoc about it since he is a big whirlwind proponent. Running whirwind seems to be ok, but actually using it? I took my superspeed scrapper to test and six slotted whirlwind with end reduction. I also picked up stamina, but she wasn't high enough to slot it after putting them in whirwind. Anyway, three minions drained the bar as fast as ever.
Now, in the thread I linked above, there was mention of *two* endurance costs for whirlwind, which has always been my understanding. There is the cost to have it on (1.15 end/sec or something) and then there is an added cost of end/enemy in range each time the power ticks. What the poster mentioned in that thread, and what I didn't realize but after observing seems to be true, is that this added cost per enemy does not seem to be affected at all by the end reduction enhancements in the power. My question would be 'Is this a bug, or working as intended?'
Ouch! That looks useless for me! Thank you for showing me that other thread, I had no idea how it works, just assumed I pay the cost to activate and all falls into place much like an AOE attack.
Perhaps I will add Unstoppable back in at 49... Recall Friend would be useless to me, I don't need hover and fly together, and Energy Torrent doesn't fit my build. If all Whirlwind is good for is spinning around to bind to costume changes, no thank you.
Looks like Unstoppable returns at 49 and I will play with Whirlwind only on Test.
Whirlwind is a funny power. It's great when grouped ... horrible when solo.
If you happen to have Kinetics or Emp (Defender or Controller) then the cost of Whirlwind is easily mitigated when facing those nasty CoS or Rularuu.
I love Whirlwind but I don't take it. Why? I don't run consistant enough groups to ensure I can handle the endurance drain. It's an awsome power but you need support to hit full potential on this ability!
Do you think it would be worthwhile to post a bug regarding the lack of end reduction from enhancements for the second end cost of the power?
Mister_Mass,
would you mind posting out the remainder of your build (past 32?) I'd be curious to see how you handled your slot distribution, and what choices you made powers-wise at the higher levels.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."