Well I went back to test today with my level 50. Thought I would post here the initial observations to help Kimmie decide what she might like to do, but I think ultimately I am going to post a bug and see if it gets a response.
I repec'd into whirlwind and stamina both six slotted. Tests were all with stamina six slotted with end recovery SOs (which really doesn't matter I guess, we're tracking End usage not End recovery).
For whirlwind I bought even level SOs to keep the math simple. Whirlwind with zero enhancements used ~3 End each time a mob was tossed into the air. Tested this on various level mobs from even cons in Peregrine to level 7s in Perez. It did not matter if the mob was a Minion, Lt. or Boss (for End usage anayway). Each mob tossed equaled approximately three end lost. The actual number is probably between 3.2 and 3.5 or so, as 3 mobs dropped 10 end, not 9 or 11. My best guess is that it's 3.45 as a mob stays in the air 3 seconds so this would bring you back to the cost of 1.15 end/sec we commonly see used for whirlwind, with the qualifier being this is per mob affected.
So, I added one SO to the power. No change in end cost to toss a mob. I added SOs one at a time until I reached six. No change in end, still ~3 each time a mob was tossed, and still ~10 when three were tossed. IF end reduction were affecting this cost I /think/ you would expect 6 SOs to bring this to ~1 per mob tossed.
As for exact numbers, honestly I am not interested in spending the time to get more precise. The numbers I have are close enough to show 'something is amiss' IMNSHO. 
Thanks for listening
You'll want to post that on the Test forum also.
You did the testing on Test and that definately looks like a bug. I'ld even consider sending Valdermic a PM if I were you. That's good stuff.
Greyhawke, thank you for going through that trouble for me. I will not be taking whirlwind now. I was imagining Supergirl power tricks, and your research shows me that this power is useless for my needs. I mainly solo, and have not had a party with anyone using Kinetics yet. Whirlwind solo looks about as suicidal as Unstoppable without using a timer.
Thank you!
I did both, thanks for the advice Havoc
*Waits patiently for the I5 Inv/SS and Spines/Regen guides*
Edit (Missed Kimmie's reply): Well, it is still fun to toss one villain in the air repeatedly or several in the air once or twice then turn it off. I'll still keep it for concept on my Superspeed Scrapper. However, maybe something will come of the bug report other than 'working as intended' *crosses fingers*
Ok Havok...
I have a problem. I have been lookin through the forums for days(literally) and can not find a build that i am happy with. I am currently Lvl 21 but am willing to do respec at 24. No, I DO NOT want to build superman, I dont like fly or 6 slot hover. And I want Superjump as my main travel power, but I cannot find anybuild that suits my taste either. I really love my Inv/SS tank but am having a hard time choosing and slotting the right stuff. As stated earlier in your build(the first page) the Krunch build is better all around build but, and i do mean but there is alot of stuff that maybe false under the I-4 release. SO... I came up with this build idea, please critique it and let me know what can, and needs to be changed around:
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength
01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(3) dam(5) dam(5) dam(7)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(7) recred(29) recred(40) hel(50) hel(50)
06 : Taunt tntdur(06) tntdur(50)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11) damres(13)
10 : Haymaker dam(10) dam(13) dam(15) dam(15) dam(17) dam(17)
12 : Combat Jumping defbuf(12)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Hasten recred(16) recred(19) recred(19) recred(21) recred(21)
18 : Invincibility thtbuf(18) thtbuf(23) defbuf(23) defbuf(48) tntdur(48) tntdur(48)
20 : Swift runspd(20)
22 : Health hel(22)
24 : Stamina endrec(24) endrec(25) endrec(25) endrec(27) endrec(27) endrec(29)
26 : Resist Elements damres(26) damres(31) damres(31) damres(31) damres(36) damres(37)
28 : Resist Energies damres(28) damres(33) damres(33) damres(33) damres(36) damres(37)
30 : Knockout Blow dam(30) dam(34) dam(34) dam(34) dam(36) dam(37)
32 : Rage recred(32) recred(43) recred(46)
35 : Temp Invulnerability damres(35)
38 : Foot Stomp dam(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(44) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45) dam(46) dam(46)
47 : Unstoppable recred(47)
49 : Tough Hide defbuf(49)
-------------------------------------------
01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)
BTW... the last 3 powers are throw aways and I dont even have a clue what would be good there....
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated
Thx
Ok you actually don't have a bad build there are some tweaks I would do.
1) I'ld yank the two extra RECRED out of Rage. You only need one.
2) Add one more slot into Hasten to 6 slot it and make it perma.
3) LBE is a solid power and is worthy of 6 slotting.
4) The last 2 are ok decisions (very safe and conservative). You may want to consider Energy Torrent. You can easily 4 slot it by taking the base slot, adding the spare slot you yanked out of Rage, and then adding 2 slots yanked from Dull Pain.
Hello there! It's been a long time since I last posted anything to the boards, but considering I quit playing eight months ago and just came back, not a surprise. This is sort of a strange place to post this, but I'll show the reason in a second.
A big reason I quit was because I was continually getting derisive comments about my character, an Inv/SS tanker. Constant remarks like 'Dump that loser', 'Inv? Start over with a REAL tanker, like a Fire one', and 'SS? Worst possible choice'. The kicker was when I was invited to a TF group and when I told them what I was, the leader said, 'Oh, we needed a USEFUL Tanker, not an XP leech' and booted me from the team. I quit the same day because I liked my character and just got tired of the snide remarks.
I started up a week ago, having missed the game a lot. And my first night out, I got invited to a group and someone said, 'Wow, you should Respec. Check out the Superman build on the forums.' I got upset because I felt like the snide comments were starting up again, but I got on the forums and hunted till I found this thread.
All of that backstory is leading to this: This thread and the people that have commented on it have reaffirmed both my interest in CoH, and in playing my Tanker again. The advice has been great, the people friendly and helpful. I'm astonished by how much the game has changed since I left it, and gratified to see that there's such a fantastic group of people out there that want to help others. Thanks to _Havok_ and everyone else that's posted here.
P.S.: I'll be asking some silly questions and making some clearly ignorant comments here very soon, never fear. Just wanted to say this first. 
[ QUOTE ]
Knockout Blow
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 19.0
Recharge 25.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 9.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok this power rocks and is what restored my faith in the Super Strength set. Up till I2 when they fixed this power Super Strength was more like Pooper Strength. Then they fixed Knockout Blow. Take this power. It does awsome damage, knockdown, and a strong chance to disorient. It doesn't get any better.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just read this whole thread. Certainly a nice build, but I wanted to point out a small problem here in your description for your next update. KO Blow doesn't have a disorient. It has a hold. The animation is the same as the disorient animation from Jab or Hand Clap, but the mob doesn't move.
It does stack with other holds which means that, as a tank, I can (and have!) encase AVs in blocks of ice. 
This is much fun.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
----------------------
Havok,
I just gotta say "Thank You!" for your guide. I have 2 Inv/SS tanks that I am using it with (one is tweaked toward superjump rather than flying).
I duoed with another Inv/SS tank of my same level and did a couple of missions in the Hollows the other nite. Most of the time he had to run away with like 10% health, while I was still pounding away at 75%. It was Awesome!!
Thanks again!
Blue Monolith - Inv/SS Tanker, Infinity (Hulk-like)
Commander Valor - Inv/SS Tanker, Virtue (Supes-like)
------
Blue Monolith - Inv/Eng Tanker, Virtue
Arctic Ant - Ice/Eng Blaster, Virtue
...proud members of the Legion of Freedom!
www.lof-online.com
[ QUOTE ]
All of that backstory is leading to this: This thread and the people that have commented on it have reaffirmed both my interest in CoH, and in playing my Tanker again. The advice has been great, the people friendly and helpful. I'm astonished by how much the game has changed since I left it, and gratified to see that there's such a fantastic group of people out there that want to help others. Thanks to _Havok_ and everyone else that's posted here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow I'm really glad you posted your story. Makes me glad that I posted this build for folks. Really glad to see it helped get you interested again 
[ QUOTE ]
I just read this whole thread. Certainly a nice build, but I wanted to point out a small problem here in your description for your next update. KO Blow doesn't have a disorient. It has a hold. The animation is the same as the disorient animation from Jab or Hand Clap, but the mob doesn't move.
It does stack with other holds which means that, as a tank, I can (and have!) encase AVs in blocks of ice. This is much fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a disorient AND a hold
It's got both (that's why it's insanely expensive).
Back in they day when it sucked the arguement why it had such low damage wast that it had multiple Mez affects but the fact was players didn't take it because we didn't care about a power that had low damage but did a disorient and a hold.
Eventually the changed it by upping the damage significantly.
[ QUOTE ]
Havok,
I just gotta say "Thank You!" for your guide. I have 2 Inv/SS tanks that I am using it with (one is tweaked toward superjump rather than flying).
I duoed with another Inv/SS tank of my same level and did a couple of missions in the Hollows the other nite. Most of the time he had to run away with like 10% health, while I was still pounding away at 75%. It was Awesome!!
Thanks again!
Blue Monolith - Inv/SS Tanker, Infinity (Hulk-like)
Commander Valor - Inv/SS Tanker, Virtue (Supes-like)
[/ QUOTE ]
I absolutely love to hear it ArcticStarr ... keep on tanking
Personally I'ld love to do an Inv/Stone guide some day. Something for fun
Havok, add me to that list. I left CoH once WoW came out because my blasters and scrappers and axe/invuln tank all sucked at soloing and I was frustrated.
It wasn't until I had seen most of WoW and got annoyed with the higher end dungeon crap and PVP that I returned to this game. I honestly didn't think it could be soloable due to my experiences.
I was in the mood to reread my Hero RPG books for Champions and was flipping through DC Heroes 3E, and wanted to play a Superhero online. Still had my CoH account open, but wasn't sure I could solo.
I was reading the board at www.herogames.com and came across the CoH characters thread. That lead me back to these forums, where I stumbled across your build. As Kara Zor-El is my favorite superhero, your posts were instant gold!
Havok, your build made this game playable for me. You are the reason why I have stayed and actually enjoyed playing again after coming back. Thank you darlin.
Kimmie, loving her Kara knock-off immensely!
Gads Havok, I wish I could 5 star you more than once on a thread.
-King Moloch
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
Well I hope you've been watching the Justice League Unlimited series!
Man they have been doing some cool stuff with Supergirl and her clone
Ugh, no. No "teen" superhero crap cartoons for me. I do miss the Batman/Superman one from a few years back. Loved seeing that Kara in action, but that one had another messed up history. Alura In-Zee is Kara's mother. Well, that cartoon Kara was Kara In-Zee, and was not Kryptonian but from the planet in the next orbit over.
I will admit to collecting the Superman/Batman issues 8-13 where Kara is brought back to the DCU, and 19 which is a nod to an ep of the Batman/Superman cartoon ep with Batgirl and Supergirl. I also just subscribed to the upcoming Supergirl comic.
I was so upset when they killed her off 19 years ago, now I get to play at 31.
Kimmie, who may or may not have downloaded torrents of the first two volumes of Kara's Supergirl comic...
Hey, as I warned, here come the silly questions.
I've been experimenting on Test, having just figured out how to make it work. Same with CoH Planner. Was looking to Respec my 36 Inv/SS Tanker before I hit 37th and had to buy all new Enhancements.
I haven't been able to notice a difference in how fast I move between Super Speed and Super Speed + Swift. Is there some benefit to Swift I'm missing? I'm thinking Hurdle would work a lot better till I get a movement power that lets me get around obstacles.
Also, I've been reading a lot of debate over Hover vs. Fly. The main benefits to Hover seem to be the reduced End cost and the Def benefit. But if I follow the build as shown, Hover won't be truly useful for getting around till my late 40's. Treating this build more as a 'Respec at 50th' guide, would it be better to get Fly for now and Respec it later to Hover? And also given that, would there then be a need for Super Speed to get about?
Thanks Havok for your help... I did a bit more research and decided to pull LBE and traded it for Air Superiority. I noticed you had some nice attack cycles and figured that would help my max dps more than LBE (LBE is extremely cool though). Could I use flurry instead (instead of taking another pool) or was the better attack chain with AS? Also what are your thoughts on the fighting pool (Tough and Weave) and Acrobatics, would that help this build any?
Thx In Advance For Your Help
Btw... How do I rate the posts (The stars) and such cause your posts are invaluable and have helped greatly with my build! 5 Stars to you!
[ QUOTE ]
Is there some benefit to Swift I'm missing?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes ... it makes you run around faster in missions when you don't have superspeed on because Invincibility triggers suppressino
It's a minor benefit though so you can grab Hurdle ... it's preference.
[ QUOTE ]
Treating this build more as a 'Respec at 50th' guide, would it be better to get Fly for now and Respec it later to Hover? And also given that, would there then be a need for Super Speed to get about?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fly is fine till you can afford the slots for 6 slotted Hover. When you herd with Hover you'll know why!
If you want to take fly till you can afford to respec that's no biggie but as soon as you can switch to Hover and slot it up ... you'll quickly see why when you begin to herd.
Just a quick comment, JLU is very much NOT a Teen Superkid show. Much of the storyline is drawn straight from the current and past run of DC comics, toned down a bit for TV. The Kara from this show IS the one from the Batman/Superman shows a few years back, so if you did like those, I think you'll enjoy these as well.
[ QUOTE ]
Could I use flurry instead (instead of taking another pool) or was the better attack chain with AS?
[/ QUOTE ]
AS is vastly superior than Flurry in an attack chain. This is due to animation time. While your buddy is still throwing fists I'm already firing my second attack and AS is starting to recharge. Sure Flurry does more damage per attack but DPS favors AS in an attack chain.
[ QUOTE ]
Also what are your thoughts on the fighting pool (Tough and Weave) and Acrobatics, would that help this build any?
[/ QUOTE ]
Currenlty the Fighting pool is useless. When I5 hits if the nerfs are pretty bad I'll do a re-evaluation and see if they need added in.
[ QUOTE ]
How do I rate the posts (The stars) and such cause your posts are invaluable and have helped greatly with my build! 5 Stars to you!
[/ QUOTE ]
lol thanks a ton!
As info there are two ways to 'star' folks. One is to star their post. At the very bottom of this page there is a place for you to select the star rating and accept it. The other is to rate the player. If you click on my name you can view my profile. In my profile is a way to rank me (good or bad ).
Anyway hope that helps
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'ld love to do an Inv/Stone guide some day. Something for fun
[/ QUOTE ]
DO IT! I was messing around with Stone powers last nite for the first time and they seem pretty cool. I just love the sound effects!!
------
Blue Monolith - Inv/Eng Tanker, Virtue
Arctic Ant - Ice/Eng Blaster, Virtue
...proud members of the Legion of Freedom!
www.lof-online.com
[ QUOTE ]
Havok, add me to that list. I left CoH once WoW came out because my blasters and scrappers and axe/invuln tank all sucked at soloing and I was frustrated.
It wasn't until I had seen most of WoW and got annoyed with the higher end dungeon crap and PVP that I returned to this game. I honestly didn't think it could be soloable due to my experiences.
I was in the mood to reread my Hero RPG books for Champions and was flipping through DC Heroes 3E, and wanted to play a Superhero online. Still had my CoH account open, but wasn't sure I could solo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like lookin' in a mirror! I did the same thing! I am now enjoying CoH more than ever and have more fun (without frustration) both soloing and grouping!
------
Blue Monolith - Inv/Eng Tanker, Virtue
Arctic Ant - Ice/Eng Blaster, Virtue
...proud members of the Legion of Freedom!
www.lof-online.com
CV ... I love the avatar that's just darn cool!
Well actually if you have the numbers and they show they are out of line then yes.
You first have measure your endurance cost per mob without enhancers and do it again per mob with enhancers.
Then you need to see if those numbers are appropriate. If they aren't then you post the results and they will get looked at if you have numbers.