Black Hole is still broken...
By
Arinara,
Posted on: 2005-02-21 21:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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One thing that I can see that would make Black Hole atleast somewhat useful for me would be If it was Single Target. Example.....
"Focus on the minions I will Blackhole the boss."
Atleast then you could get some use out of the power. I Personally see use for Detention field (Force Field's single target Foe Intangible power).
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Agreed. A single target version with decent ACC would be good. The group nature of black-hole is a negative.
For a power named "Black hole" it certainly does not do anything like I would think.
It would be cool if it operated kind of like a "reverse" freezing rain.
Imagine you target it like freezing rain, then when you click, it starts dragging foes in its range toward its center damaging the foes as it pulls them in, add - range and -recharge for the duration of the effect.
Center on your tank for added Tanker joy
that might be fun!
would be interesting pvp as well...
The current power for me is a panic button that confuses the hell out of everyone when I use it.
Heh, seems like calling a power "situational" is the kiss of death.
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For a power named "Black hole" it certainly does not do anything like I would think.
It would be cool if it operated kind of like a "reverse" freezing rain.
Imagine you target it like freezing rain, then when you click, it starts dragging foes in its range toward its center damaging the foes as it pulls them in, add - range and -recharge for the duration of the effect.
Center on your tank for added Tanker joy
that might be fun!
would be interesting pvp as well...
The current power for me is a panic button that confuses the hell out of everyone when I use it.
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Second. Probably be hard to code, since as far as I know there's no powers that suck you to one point, but well too bad devs. Think how fun that would be in PvP!
I swear, this is my most popular thread ever.
Oh yeah, and I'll add that it was nerfed since I first posted this thread. The duration was halved.
I really can't think of a more counterproductive power to use in PvP. I can phase a team's healer- and the rest of their team- for a whole seven seconds!
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I swear, this is my most popular thread ever.
Oh yeah, and I'll add that it was nerfed since I first posted this thread. The duration was halved.
I really can't think of a more counterproductive power to use in PvP. I can phase a team's healer- and the rest of their team- for a whole seven seconds!
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And if they have combat jumping, they can run around at will.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Second. Probably be hard to code, since as far as I know there's no powers that suck you to one point, but well too bad devs. Think how fun that would be in PvP!
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There are powers that push mobs around. I don't how that is different from pulling. It's just the opposite vector.
And the synergy with powers like *hum* Burn would be amazing. Black Hole of Fire Doom!
Imagine that with Freezing Rain? Mobs trying to run away but being pulled to the middle of it.
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Heh, seems like calling a power "situational" is the kiss of death.
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This made me LOL IRL 
The sad thing is that was true beginning of 2005 and it's still true one year later. They copiously nerfed overpowered ATs but did nothing to take a look at unloved powers.
So, does this mean Sonic Cage is also an intangibility magnitude power?
Indeed, they all are.
I thought of a nifty little idea for Black Hole, kind of a mix between Fold Space and Wormhole.
It's a drop power with a relatively short targetting range (maybe 50 feet). You select the drop area and it teleports all the enemies around it to the spot. Add a mag 1 disorient to it, and we're dandy.
It'd make a useful anti-scatter power or a very interesting opener, certainly a valuable enemy-positioning tool.
I know I'd use it. Even if it's situational, it'd sure make one heckuva novelty power.
Edit: Changed the title to reflect current information.
I liked the PBAoE +End thing, myself.
Or that one thing the Carnies get. What was it? Mask of Something. -Acc, -Dam, -Regen, -Recovery? Either a reeeeaaaaly long duration click, or a toggle? Whatever it was, it was absolutely crippling.
That'd be fun.
Oh, and if the devs change Black Hole, I'd like to request that they leave Dimension Shift alone. Or better, buff the thing so that the PvP duration is long enough for me to actually run away with
Serious thread-ro-nancy here. :OP
In all seriousness though my RL GF plays a Dark/Dark almost exclusively, yes i'm lucky, and Black Hole is the one power that she was just completly turned off by. So much so that as a casual gamer we went through the friggin respec trial to take something else.
Let me put it this way, she spends about 2-3 hours a week or every other playing, and hated the power so much she was willing to use her limited time to get rid of the power and rack up some debt with the trial (we had a bad team).
In PvP can people use Break Frees to get out of Black Hole?
No
Here's my Idea: Targeted AoE Range-Debuff ...Like hurricane, but without the knocking-stuff-around part.
Only thing I believe fits the premise of a Black Hole... IE: energy can't escape it
I'd like to quote Statesman's actual response to me as to why powers like this haven't been fixed after all this time:
"If a defender feels less effective than a scrapper, then scrappers must be nerfed."
See, that power is working perfectly, that's why they haven't changed it since beta. It's all the other powers in the game which must be nerfed until they are the same. THOSE powers are clearly TOO powerful. Black Hole is working as intended.
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I'd like to quote Statesman's actual response to me as to why powers like this haven't been fixed after all this time:
"If a defender feels less effective than a scrapper, then scrappers must be nerfed."
See, that power is working perfectly, that's why they haven't changed it since beta. It's all the other powers in the game which must be nerfed until they are the same. THOSE powers are clearly TOO powerful. Black Hole is working as intended.
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I'm fairly sure Statesman was being sarcastic.
The key word is "feeling"
The devs can't control how you Feel (weak or strong).
They can only control the powers themselves.
I'm pretty sure he was mocking you.
This power is definitely in need of being re-conceptualized completley. Phase other is probably the least useful "control" power available. Look at the effects comparison.
Hold- enemy is offensively and mobility negated, but is still defeatable during the duration. Base durations tend to be moderate.
Sleep- enemy is offensively and mobility negated, but ceases to be controlled by any non-regen health change (up or down). Base duration is very long.
Disorient- enemy is offensively negated, but is not immobilized (though movement is random). Enemy is defeatable during this time. Base duration is moderate.
Immobilize- enemy is not affected offensively, but cannot move (except by TP). They are defeatable during this time. Base duration is long.
Confuse- enemy's offense is applied vs. other enemy units (generating slightly less xp per unit defeated by such offensive output, but actually yielding greater xp/hour)and buffs applied to friendly units. Unit is defeatable during this time. Base duration is long.
Fear- Unit is offensively neutralized and usually immobilized, unless damaged at which point the unit may make one retaliatory attack. Unit may be defeated during this duration. Base duration is long/very long.
Slow (i.e. -rech). Enemy unit's attack rate is decreased (mitigating incoming damage substantially). Movement speed is usually reduced as well, which can also have a damage mitigating effect (primarily enemy melee units vs. friendly ranged units). Units may be defeated during this time. Base duration is very long.
All of the above have the shared (and obviously desirable) trait of allowing the enemy to be defeated while under the status effect (sleep, only with one-shots). Also they can all have enhanced duration.
Now look at Black Hole's traits:
Enemy offensively negated- good.
Enemy is undefeatable- ridiculously bad and contrary to the whole point of the game.
Short UNENHANCEABLE duration.- effectively broken.
The only reason I can think of NOT to alter/buff Black Hole is that they would then probably nerf other powers in the set in order to maintain balance.
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I'd like to quote Statesman's actual response to me as to why powers like this haven't been fixed after all this time:
"If a defender feels less effective than a scrapper, then scrappers must be nerfed."
See, that power is working perfectly, that's why they haven't changed it since beta. It's all the other powers in the game which must be nerfed until they are the same. THOSE powers are clearly TOO powerful. Black Hole is working as intended.
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I'm fairly sure Statesman was being sarcastic.
The key word is "feeling"
The devs can't control how you Feel (weak or strong).
They can only control the powers themselves.
I'm pretty sure he was mocking you.
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I know whenever I say things like that, I'm mocking someone.
But I'm not Statesman. Who knows what sinister plots lurk behind his...not very sinister face?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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For a power named "Black hole" it certainly does not do anything like I would think.
It would be cool if it operated kind of like a "reverse" freezing rain.
Imagine you target it like freezing rain, then when you click, it starts dragging foes in its range toward its center damaging the foes as it pulls them in, add - range and -recharge for the duration of the effect.
Center on your tank for added Tanker joy
that might be fun!
would be interesting pvp as well...
The current power for me is a panic button that confuses the hell out of everyone when I use it.
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Man, that seems freakin' awesome. Kinda like an anti-telekinesis. Instead of pushing the mobs away, it pulls them toward where you placed it. And I like the -recharge and -range effect, sort of like actually getting sucked into a black hole (who woulda thought?). Teams would totally love that. I mean, you use it on a mob and it really benefits any AoE users. Debuffs and all. This is an awesome idea...forgive me for my childish ooo-I-just-got-tickle-me-elmo behavior 
That's actually what I was thinking of in regards to it too. A targetted AoE, like tar patch, that pulls foes within a certain radius towards its center and maybe dealing some type of minor crushing damage. But as it is, it's a completely worthless power that in reality doesnt do anything except attract a large amount of aggro to you once you use it. It really needs to be reworked.
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Heh, seems like calling a power "situational" is the kiss of death.
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Seems like? A "situational" power, by definition, is a power that is of NO help some of the time.
I'd rather take powers I can use in most any situation, Thanks.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
One thing that I can see that would make Black Hole atleast somewhat useful for me would be If it was Single Target. Example.....
"Focus on the minions I will Blackhole the boss."
Atleast then you could get some use out of the power. I Personally see use for Detention field (Force Field's single target Foe Intangible power).