Fire/Fire Tank Guide 2.0
The resistance cap isn't effected by what mob level you're facing.
They get a mad bonus to damage to you if they're +++ and a mad penalty if they're --- however, which may make it SEEM like it's changing your cap. Even a 1 level difference will be a noticeable difference in damage done to you if you watch the numbers (and damage done to them by you). If you and he are different levels that'd explain it pretty obviously. Alternatly, he may have an end redux slotted somewhere, causing him to be at less than cap while you're still capped.
Conversely, the same is true of players. You're 32, go find a level 1 hellion an brawl him. I've seen a friend's blaster (40th, possibly sk'd up to 49 at the time) do over 3k damage to a level 1 in ONE SHOT (and it wasn't a snipe!) I'm sure a broadsword scrapper could do more with their higher damage cap.
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Update on my fire tank: Finally crawled my way thru to 37 in eden. That wasn't much fun. But at that point I got back into crey's, herding freaks up in carnival town (NE corner of it) and life was again good... for a while.
Now I'm 40 and cursing out the contacts at the far end of founder's. I'm ignoring them and working on Tina, planning to get some of the instanced praetorean missions to herd. I know herding the docks was apparently the rage for a while but I've been trying not to do massive non-hazard-zone herding.
I'm not so sure why people are all big on the freaks, I'm thinking that bobcat's minions are going to be what I herd. They do almost exclusivly smash/lethal, which I'm capped for resist on. They're claws so they don't do /that/ much damage. The map's a reasonable size and has decent corners, so they should be herdable, and they're all melees so they /want/ to get close and wack me. Oh and best of all none of them fly off at one billion miles per hour, nor stand back up serially to piss me off.
Thanks for clearing that up for me fellahs.
I guess I'll drop two slots out of tough when I respec at 34 (when I get there that is )
This is one of the very best guides there is, and some of the replies are very useful, but I still have some questions.
What about enhancing toxic resistance, isn't that worth doing in the end game?
Instead of using a slot for Acc in every attack (besides Burn), why not get Focused Accuracy?
Except for Burn, none of the power descriptions adresses BIPS. I would like to see more about attack chains for optimum BIPS. I've noticed that minions fall fast enough to BA+Burn, whether I'm solo or teamed with other AOErs. Could we have some single-target BIPS comparisons between FM and EM attack chains?
Can you reduce the recharge+activation on Incinerate to less than the duration of the DoT? Do the DoTs stack?
How do things change if the build is also (or predominantly) for PvP?
How does the build change when you have as many Hami-Os as you can use?
Thanks for all your effort and for sharing the results with us.
I've been trying out Mephe's "defensive-oriented" build as my first Fire Tanker. I'll probably be making some changes to it as I go (swapping Plasma Shield and Taunt, for instance) but so far it's working pretty well. Even Boxing at 10 seems to be a good choice; having that extra melee attack is helpful when facing off against bosses; focus on the boss with Scorch and Boxing while you let the flames take care of the minions and things are much safer.
I did notice that the advice Mephe gives in the FAQ section and the path he takes with his build are two different things. In the FAQ he says to 6-slot Taunt and take Plasma Shield at 12...but in his builds, Taunt only gets 1 slot and Plasma Shield doesn't get taken 'til 20 or 22. (I plan to take it at 16 because it's annoying facing clocks in Boomtown without it.)
By the way, Mephe...why Swift, not Hurdle? I'd heard that Hurdle stacks with Superjump, I'd have thought it would be a good choice.
First off, thanks for the guide Mephe!
I have pretty much followed the guide and in 5 weeks I have my Fire/Fire Tanker to lvl 42. I did take combustion early on to have a little more damage, but respec'd it out already.
I find Swift very useful as I can turn on run and move quickly from mob to mob that I am trying to herd together.
(from the preview screen I see I need to update my sig!)
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This is one of the very best guides there is, and some of the replies are very useful, but I still have some questions.
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Thank you, and thanks to everybody that has posted and given me kind works about this guide.
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What about enhancing toxic resistance, isn't that worth doing in the end game?
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healing flames gives 20% toxic resistance for 60 seconds. The cool thing is it stacks! So with haste and 3 SO recharge you can get HF down to : 22 seconds, so after 45 seconds you have 60% toxic resistance. If you fill the other 3 with resistance you get 32% per cast so once you have 3 stacked you have maxed out toxic. The main question is why... currently toxic is very rare and usually not high in damage amount.
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Except for Burn, none of the power descriptions adresses BIPS. I would like to see more about attack chains for optimum BIPS. I've noticed that minions fall fast enough to BA+Burn, whether I'm solo or teamed with other AOErs. Could we have some single-target BIPS comparisons between FM and EM attack chains?
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Sorry I dont do testing, I just collect the info and try to put it in one place thats easy to read for fellow fire tankers. I think you can use the activation time + cast time and BI for other powers to get a thoeretical BIPS for each power. Remember though BIPS is limited by end unless you have stamina + CP + consume (level 43 min).
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Can you reduce the recharge+activation on Incinerate to less than the duration of the DoT? Do the DoTs stack?
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Yup you can, and the DOTs do stack. Perma haste gives you some overlap I think, but I dont recommend swapping out a damage for a time redux because your end use shoots up, while your overall damage stays about the same.
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How do things change if the build is also (or predominantly) for PvP?
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No clue about PVP, but the reports I have seen dont look to good. Taunt does not prevent heroes from running so burn is useless unless you got a troller to lock em down. I dont think I will PvP much, and if I do it will be with my Ill/Rad so It will be up to others to get and collect PVP info.
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How does the build change when you have as many Hami-Os as you can use?
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Other than to be all you can be, there is probably not much use in all HamiOs (you are a good tank without em). Its pretty trivial to calculate out all the powers with the best HOs in em.
FS 6 resist/end = 84% smash/letha/fire (still need tough for that 6%? maybe maybe not)
PS is the same as FS
WIth FE (100%) and 6 HO (300%) damage/acc you cap out your damage so buildup is worthless.
WIth all 6 recharge redux in FE + perma haste you still cant perma FE (down to 38 seconds instead of 45 with SOs).
The big problem with HOs is all the ones you need are very rare (resistance/end, heal/end, recharge redux, dam/acc, def/end). It would take many many mind numbing hami raids to fill you up and for not much gain.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
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I've just gotten my Fire/Fire Tanker to 19, based on the Defensive build given in this guide, mostly soloing. Burn is just amazing, I've never seen anything like it. Never really paid attention to it when I was teamed with Fire Tankers before. But damn, is it ever good.
Anyway, I think I've found what may be a bit of a serious flaw in the build. Plasma Shield, despite advice earlier in the guide to "take it at 12", was not taken until 20. I took it at 16, in place of Taunt (though I won't be slotting it, save with an End Reduction to lower the drain, 'til after I get done slotting Burn). My reasoning for this is that the 15-19 plot arcs are just lousy with mobs that mez (Clockworks' Teslas, Tsoo's Yellow Ink Men, etc.) or fire energy attacks (Clockworks, Lost, etc.). I could never have gotten through those missions without it. And while I did skip over most of the story content, I had to run missions for my contact-of-origin to get run, jump, and Taunt DOs...
The taunt effect on Blazing Aura, particularly with the benefit of a Taunt DO, is good enough that I really don't feel like I'm missing out by skipping Taunt. I may end up waiting 'til after Stamina or Tough to pick it up.
Just a note...I've levelled up to 27.9 so far, and one thing I've found is that Stephanie Peebles's Wedding Ring is an invaluable addition to a Fire Tanker's arsenal. Use it during those times when you've bit off more than you can chew and you're taking heavy damage, and it will substitute quite nicely for the additional protection of Tough and the additional slots on Plasma Shield that you haven't been able to put in yet, all through the early to mid 20s.
In my variation on the Defensive build outlined in the guide, in addition to taking Plasma Shield instead of Taunt at 16, I went ahead and took Burn at 18, Health at 20, Stamina at 22, Taunt at 24, and Acrobatics at 26. My reasoning was that I could live with being knocked down a few times--my main attack is Burn anyway--but I couldn't live with running out of End and having my toggles drop.
So far, this Tanker is working out really well; I did the Sister Psyche and Respec TFs today. Psyche was fun; I did it with my Fire/Fire, a Stone Tanker, a Blaster, a Scrapper, and an Emp Defender. Oft-times the rest of the team would go one way and I would go another because at level 26 I was quite capable of surviving and taking out entire Unyielding-class groups of Freaks all by myself.
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My reasoning was that I could live with being knocked down a few times--my main attack is Burn anyway--but I couldn't live with running out of End and having my toggles drop.
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Agreed 100%. My variant was to take taunt, consume and plasma shield early, and devote my entire 20's to pools. Starting at 20, I took Boxing, Tough, Hurdle, Swift, Stamina. I'm looking forward to Acrobatics at 30, and then I'll *finally* get to go back to my attacks. The knockdown has been a bit annoying, but that's all: it hasn't really been a huge problem.
If I were doing it again, I'd probably do Hurdle earlier and Taunt later, and maybe slot Consume a bit more...
Thanks for the helpful how to. I will be building one soon for a 6 man Fire/Fire team our SG is working on.
That's not debt, those are my "fury bonus points"--Stahlkopf
MOST amazing Brute engineer goes to: Ultrawatt. His SS/Fire farm build is SMASH!
Congrats to Black Assassin! Won 100,000,000 INF for building most survivable NRG/NRG Blaster
Mephe,
Thank you for the awesome guide. One question though, Im thinking about putting in conserve power into your tank (not scranker) build - what power or powers would you change or un-slot in order to fit that in?
after reading over what was done and making some serious decisions, I think I have come up with a decent fire/fire tank using the ideas presented here. Stealing a bit from Mephe and a bit from Geminii (tossing in my own mix just for fun)I've decided that being a fire tank - will better suit my style than being a fire scrapper (dispite my overwhelming desire for a massive numbers fest ) I'd appreciate any feedback on the build
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Support : Fiery Melee
01 : Scorch acc(01) acc(5)
01 : Fire Shield damres(01) damres(3) damres(5) damres(7) damres(9) damres(36)
02 : Blazing Aura acc(02) endred(3) endred(7) dam(9) dam(37) dam(37)
04 : Healing Flames recred(04) hel(15) hel(15) hel(29) hel(31) hel(31)
06 : Combat Jumping endred(06)
08 : Hurdle jmp(08)
10 : Hasten recred(10) recred(11) recred(11) recred(13) recred(13) recred(36)
12 : Plasma Shield damres(12) damres(17) damres(17) damres(34) damres(34) damres(34)
14 : Super Speed endred(14)
16 : Taunt tntdur(16)
18 : Burn dam(18) dam(19) dam(19) dam(21) dam(21) dam(23)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(25) endrec(25) endrec(27) endrec(27)
24 : Boxing acc(24)
26 : Fiery Embrace recred(26) recred(37) recred(40) recred(43) recred(46)
28 : Tough endred(28) damres(29)
30 : Weave defbuf(30) defbuf(31) defbuf(33) defbuf(33) defbuf(33) defbuf(36)
32 : Super Jump jmp(32)
35 : Acrobatics endred(35)
38 : Greater Fire Sword endred(38) endred(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Focused Accuracy endred(44) endred(45) endred(45) thtbuf(45) thtbuf(46) thtbuf(46)
47 : Build Up recred(47) recred(48) recred(48) recred(48)
49 : Fire Sword Circle dam(49) dam(50) dam(50) dam(50)
my concern is that this build would not be able to herd and hold aggro. Furthermore I'm thinking I would only be mediocre when soloing. Thoughts? Suggestions?
I am still a novice as a fire tank (lvl 13), but that second lvl 5 slot in Scorch is a waist. It might not be so bad if it was at least damage, but that slot would be better served in Blazing Aura (Your main damage power until 18), Healing Flames (You will want this coming up fast, because your resistances are low in the early game), or Fire Shield (Tanks out last(when we take less damage)).
If possible find a way to move Fire Sword Circle to earlier in the build. With Blazing Aura/Burn you will want the AoE sooner. Unless you rather focus on single target attacks.
Personal Preference: start with SJ as travel, SS is faster in many cases (as long as there isnt too much vertical) and you get that stealth aspect which is great but tankers generally dont need. Super Jump first makes acrobatics available earlier (Knockback coming I4) and you maybe able to arrange your attacks and slotting differently. I'd catagorize SS as a nice to have but that in my opinion.
Although it is a very minor difference I'd take Blazing Aura before Fire Shield. You can practically herd(6-8) containated in outbreak without fire shield.
For comparison and also for comment below is my current build plan. I'm locked into lvl 12 and below already.
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Support : Fiery Melee
01 : Scorch dam(01)
01 : Blazing Aura acc(01) dam(3) dam(3) dam(7) dam(7) tntdur(9)
02 : Healing Flames recred(02) recred(11) hel(13) hel(15) hel(40) hel(46)
04 : Fire Shield endred(04) damres(5) damres(5) damres(9) damres(11) damres(13)
06 : Combat Jumping jmp(06)
08 : Consume acc(08) recred(15) recred(27) recred(40) recred(46)
10 : Taunt tntdur(10)
12 : Hurdle jmp(12)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Plasma Shield endred(16) damres(17) damres(17) damres(25) damres(25) damres(27)
18 : Burn dam(18) dam(19) dam(19) dam(21) dam(21) dam(23)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(29) endrec(29) endrec(34) endrec(37)
24 : Acrobatics endred(24)
26 : Boxing dam(26)
28 : Tough endred(28)
30 : Weave defbuf(30) defbuf(31) defbuf(31) defbuf(31) defbuf(34) defbuf(37)
32 : Hasten recred(32) recred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(34) recred(37)
35 : Fire Sword Circle acc(35) dam(36) dam(36) dam(36) dam(40) endred(43)
38 : Incinerate acc(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(46)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Fiery Embrace recred(44) recred(45) recred(45) recred(45) recred(50)
47 : Combustion acc(47) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48) dam(50)
49 : Build Up recred(49) recred(50)
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01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)
HaloInc
Triumph:
Heroes: Lady Halifax, Miss Kia, WhiteLotus, Agent Immolate, Lady Empathy, Sylence Fyredancer, Maiden of Fire
Villains: Innocent-Ella, Aegis-Sprite, Midnight Dragonfly
thanks tons for the advice I was taking SS because it was in her theme (Her name is Zippo) but I'd rather be more effective and I think I can still pull something off with SJ thanks again
thanks for all the advice guys, its gonna greatly help out my tanker
Fantastic guide Mephe!!
I made a few little changes but follwed your advice and now have a lvl 30 fire/fire tank in just 36 hours of game time!! Lol!!! Crazy XP!!
Herding in TV is SO much fun!
here's my build so far...
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Support : Fiery Melee
01 : Scorch acc(01)
01 : Blazing Aura acc(01) dam(3) dam(3) dam(9) dam(9) dam(11)
02 : Fire Shield damres(02) damres(5) damres(5) damres(11) damres(13) damres(13)
04 : Healing Flames hel(04) hel(7) hel(7) recred(17) recred(17)
06 : Combat Jumping defbuf(06)
08 : Swift runspd(08)
10 : Consume recred(10)
12 : Plasma Shield damres(12) damres(15) damres(15)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Health hel(16)
18 : Burn dam(18) dam(19) dam(19) dam(21) dam(21) dam(25)
20 : Acrobatics endred(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(23) endrec(29) endrec(29)
24 : Hasten recred(24) recred(25) recred(27) recred(27)
26 : Boxing acc(26)
28 : Fire Sword Circle acc(28)
30 : Tough damres(30)
Anyways, Thanks again! I love this tank!!
Dex
ok, pardon me, but our math seems off about Blazing aura.
if the Brawl index is .6111, then with six Single origins... your equation
(.6111*1)+(6*.333)
would equal 2.6091
Multiplying that by a 30 damage brawl you get 78.273 damage.
assuming one Accuracy and one Endurance Reduction, four damage enhancements would yeild 58.293 damage at a 30 damage brawl ((.6111*1)+(4*.333))*30.
Is there something I'm missing as to why your numbers are lower?
Great Guide!
HaloInc's Comments below made me repost a response to him. I've edited out my earlier template to shorten the read time of others.
I'm still a novice, but here are my recommendations:
Take Plasma Shield at 20 but Stamina off till 22. Those status protections help alot, of coarse so does end issues.
Move hasten back your not slotting until the 30s anyway. Get your travel sooner if you can.
My preference would be to take Fiery Embrace before Build up, long duration all attacks fire anyway.
HaloInc
Triumph:
Heroes: Lady Halifax, Miss Kia, WhiteLotus, Agent Immolate, Lady Empathy, Sylence Fyredancer, Maiden of Fire
Villains: Innocent-Ella, Aegis-Sprite, Midnight Dragonfly
So you'd go with something like this for the first 25 levels...
01 : Scorch acc(01)
01 : Blazing Aura acc(01) dam(3) dam(3) dam(5) dam(5) tntdur(7)
02 : Healing Flames hel(02) hel(13) hel(15) hel(17)
04 : Fire Shield damres(04) damres(7) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(11)
06 : Combat Jumping defbuf(06)
08 : Consume acc(08) recred(13) recred(15) recred(17)
10 : Hurdle jmp(10)
12 : Plasma Shield damres(12) damres(23) damres(25)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Taunt tntdur(16)
18 : Burn dam(18) dam(19) dam(19) dam(21) dam(21) dam(23)
20 : Acrobatics endred(20)
22 : Health hel(22)
24 : Stamina endrec(24) endrec(25)
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Speed: Haste is the reason we dip into this pool at all. Haste adds 2 SO recharge reducers to every power while up. With 5 GREEN SOs in haste its up all the time.
Haste: 5% def
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Mephe, where do you get this? I'm using your Defensive build; I just hit 35, and I have 5 green SOs in Hasten as your build specifies. There's still a 10-15 second gap between end of Hasten effect and end of recharge. I'm going to have to find a slot I can spare from something else to make it perma.
Actually it should be green++ enhancements will make perm-Haste. It just comes up before it wears off.
The percentage of damage that you resist is the same regardless of the level of your attacker. Their DAMAGE scales up, so you take more damage, but you RESIST the same percentage of that damage.
So, say you have 90% smash/lethal resistance (the cap).
A grey Warrior hits you for 10 points... you take 1 (10%).
A red Freak Tank hits you for 1000 points... you take 100 (10%).
Try it for yourself with your toggles on and off.
@Mindshadow