Thanks for the great post.
I have a few simple questions about my level 12 fire/fire tanker.
1. How important is it to have taunt now that Blazing Aura has a taunt feature? Would your recommendation be for me to use my free respect and get Healing Flames instead of Taunt?
2. You mention getting Plasma Shield at 12 but you don't get it on your builds until Lvl 20 andLvl 22 respectively.
3. Are you not a fan of Super Speed? Or is it just because you like the Leaping pool?
4. I may just be used to my MA/SR scrapper but I find that I needed Hasten at Lvl 6 so that Fire Sword and Scorch were not so slow for attacks.
5. How do I use my free respec and where?
Thanks for all you do!
4.
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Thanks for the great post.
I have a few simple questions about my level 12 fire/fire tanker.
1. How important is it to have taunt now that Blazing Aura has a taunt feature? Would your recommendation be for me to use my free respect and get Healing Flames instead of Taunt?
2. You mention getting Plasma Shield at 12 but you don't get it on your builds until Lvl 20 andLvl 22 respectively.
3. Are you not a fan of Super Speed? Or is it just because you like the Leaping pool?
4. I may just be used to my MA/SR scrapper but I find that I needed Hasten at Lvl 6 so that Fire Sword and Scorch were not so slow for attacks.
5. How do I use my free respec and where?
Thanks for all you do!
4.
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Hey Matt,
I've used Mephe's guide and have just hit 40 in about a week of playing...THAT'S how good it is 
I'll try and answer these questions for ya, as I faced the same things myself and worked through the answers as I played...
1) I've lasted up until 40 without taunt, just using blazing aura (2 accuracy, 2 taunt, 2 end reduction). It's done the job very nicely for herding around Crey's Folly and in missions. But now, I intend to do more teaming and the mobs I face now (+4s, sometimes +5s) I just can't hit with blazing aura enough. As taunt is auto hit, if you're going to be facing mobs more than +3 i'd recommend getting it. If you're going to solo your way up to 40 like I did, hold off taunt until you've got a spare slot later in your build. I'm gonna pick it up at lvl 41 as I feel it's more important to my build now than conserve power. I'll get CP at 44, then Build Up at 47, then RotP at 49 cos it's cool!
2) I took plasma shield at 12, but didn't really need to. I hunted on my own in Boomtown until 19, avoiding clockwork as their end drain was too much for me, and so the only mobs that plasma shield protected me against were the lost gunmen. Once you hit 20 though, you're gonna need it as you now started running into mezzing Tsoo and Family, as well as more Circle of Thorn energy attacks and then Rikti. So you can hold off until 20 if you want to, but I took it early so I could get Acrobatics and Stamina as quickly as possible, which are both extremely important powers.
3) Superspeed is a good power, but as a fire tank you have no knockdown protection. If you take the leaping pool tho, you can pick up Acrobatics at lvl 20 which gives you this protection. Very useful to have, in fact at lvl 20 I found it more useful than Stamina, so even held off stamina until 22.
4) In the early levels, patience is the key. You're primarily a damage over time tanker, and, if you're following Mephe's guide, most of your damage will be done with blazing aura until you get Burn at lvl 18. As there are so many otehr powers to pick up early, I held off hasten until I could put SOs in it, as it's pretty useless until you can make it perma-hasten. So I took it at lvl 24. Your secondary attacks use more endurance than they're worth IMHO, so I just kept scorch as a boss-killer move, and hunted with only blazing aura. The longer the recharge of the scorch, the longer time I had to regain endurance. I think if I was to have picked hasten, my scorch would have recharged too fast for my endurance gain and I would've ran out too fast.
5) just type /respec wherever you are standing and you should be taken to your respecification screen. Simply choose your powers again, as if you were levelling from level 1 again.
Hope this helps you!
Ciao
Thanks for your response Alpha-Strike.
I went ahead and did my respec to exactly what was recommended as the defensive tanker build. I realized that there were some excellent long term thinking in that build. I'm also smart enough to realize that you guys are smarter than me regarding building fire/fire tanks.
So yes, I liked having taunt as a fun power but can live without it.
I only have one other question. I've got 30,000 influence saved and am thinking about getting by first dual origin enhancements. Following the defensive tanker build where should I spend my money first?
I was thinking that I should put it into level 15 damage resistance first and then my one heal slot and any extras into accuracy. My thought is that DOs in damage are the lowest priority until I get burn at lvl 18.
Thanks again.
Until burn I literally just had six slots in blazing aura (1 acc, 5 damage) and 1 acc in Scorch. All my other slots went into defence. Anything that keeps you alive long enough for blazing aura to do it's work!
So yeh, I'd say go for damage resistance first then fill up your heal, then damage. What you might find doing it that way is the damage resistance DOs cost a lot less than the Damage ones so you might well have enough money left for more than you think after you've maxed your shields.
I'm looking at Lvl 16 on the defensive tanker build and I am thinking that instead of taking taunt there I have a few other options I might like better.
I was in Steel Canyon the other night and my toggles where dropping a lot because of all the guys with electric attacks. Now the simple answer might be to stay out of Steel Canyon but I'm thinkin of getting Plasma Shield at 16.
Health or Tough at 16 also sound like good options. So the real questions becomes when if ever do I need taunt?
Thanks again for the help.
Matt
I took plasma shield instead of taunt at 16 and I did just fine. 
After the changes to burn (where it causes mobs to run away again), are there any changes to this guide?
Well I will say that post I4 lots of mobs have serious Knock Back. I was 25 when I4 hit, and had planned on Acrobatics at 26 (after tough and stamina). If I were to do it again, I would pick up Acrobatics at 22 and stamina at 20. If you go the consume route, pick up acrobatics at 20! There is nothing worse than being Knocked out of your burn patch and having the villians follow you. I have not had much trouble with the burn change. Mobs occasionally leave the patch and come right back. I run BA with no taunt, and occasionally use my taunt power.
THz
You're lucky to be fighting melee-happy enemies. Later on when they aren't melee happy, they leave the burn patch and don't come back.
Last status report: Tanks Like Ash, L42, been putzing around PI working on Tina and her TF, now shelved.
Maybe I'll revisit him later if the devs fix this.
Ive been using the defensive tanker build and just got burn last night. Ive found that the easiest way to keep them in burn is to generate more hate than fear, so what I do, is hop in the middle with BA and sit there for a few seconds, then I put out a taunt hitting as many of them as possible with it, now Ive put out a decent amount of hate and can place a burn patch, around the middle of burns duration, taunt is recharged and I taunt again to get more hate, throw in a couple scorches here and there and 90% of the time I can keep most of the mob in burn. It seems they will also stay in burn longer if theres a Lt. in the patch with them, like the Lt. is generating Confidence for them. So taunt does become rather needed for I4, once hasten hits the build, keeping them in burn should be even easier.
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After the changes to burn (where it causes mobs to run away again), are there any changes to this guide?
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The only major change I would recommend would be to slot Blazing Aura for taunt instead of damage. I have mine at 2 Acc, 4 Taunt, and it seems to counteract the worst of the I4 Terrorize change's effects. Most of your damage is going to come from Burn anyway.
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After the changes to burn (where it causes mobs to run away again), are there any changes to this guide?
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The only major change I would recommend would be to slot Blazing Aura for taunt instead of damage. I have mine at 2 Acc, 4 Taunt, and it seems to counteract the worst of the I4 Terrorize change's effects. Most of your damage is going to come from Burn anyway.
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I agree with this move. My Fire/Fire is up to lvl 39 and I have yet to take Taunt. The auto taunt of BA with 4 Taunt SO's for me it plenty to keep mobs interested in me (I must note I do not herd large groups).
I took conserve power at 41....it's too good not to take. My attacks are Boxing, Scorch, BA, Burn, FSC, and Combustion. I'll probably take FE, Build Up, and Incinerate for the final three powers.
Really good guide, but it should be just that, as you play and get to know your character, you should come up with your own selections. I personally don't see the point of taking RotP.
I'm totally short on slots though...hehe
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great guide i am following it - just started a new fire/fire tanker and got him to lvl 10 in no time and its great fun!
question about your build:
why do you propose boxing at 10? you could move it to lvl 26 and therefore get stamina by 24 - or is there a drawback?
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Drawbacks are as follows:
At level 22, you start facing alot of foes that do more damage, and hence, you need more resistance to smash/lethal.
I last exponentially longer against large herds of Freaks and Sky Raiders with Tough than without. About this time, you'll also want Stamina, since running acro, FS, PS, and CJ actually puts you at a deficit of endurance when you start burning on top of those toggles.
By exponential, I mean 10-20 minutes longer than without Tough.
Running without Acro is very, very bad post-20 or so. KD is horrid and present in about 90% of your foes (mostly luteys and bosses).
Running without Stamina after 24-ish makes you VERY susceptible to toggle drops, especially when facing end-draining foes en masse.
Moral: Get Stamina for the added drain of more toggles. Get it by 22 latest. Get Acro next for knockdown. Lastly, Tough is needed to cap smash/lethal. Boxing is needed for Tough, so get it out of the way early so it's not an issue later.
Fire tanks are VERY tight builds for those who wish to actually tank, and not be glorified scrappers. VERY tight. There is one wiggle possibility, and that's Taunt. Anything else moved later reduces the effectivness of a tanker-type fire tank DRASTICALLY.
I've actually observed this firsthand, both from my tank (correct build) and 5 other fire tanks (incorrect builds) who I have teamed with.
I've also come to the conclusion that slotting anything BUT resistance in your shields is a BAD move. Each SO reduces damage by quite a bit. It makes a DRASTIC difference.
Also, one mistake I continually see or hear: more than 2 resists in Tough/Weave with 6-slotted FS is a complete waste. With 2, and +2 green SOs, you are in the 106% s/l resist bracket. You're at 98% with white (even) SOs. Just don't do it; only 1 or 2 foes reduce damage resistances and they are all post-40. Don't worry about it, it doesn't happen that often.
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Can anyone confirm or elaborate on the red text? I've read 3 or 4 previous posts in the forums that say everything from you MUST 6 slot weave to only 2 slots in Weave and 3 in Tough or vice versa. Everyone seems to have the ironclad and 'undisputable' confirmation on their facts. Slotting assuming that FS and PS are both 6 slotted for DamRes, with CJ and Acro taken for additional protections)
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Drawbacks are as follows:
At level 22, you start facing alot of foes that do more damage, and hence, you need more resistance to smash/lethal.
I last exponentially longer against large herds of Freaks and Sky Raiders with Tough than without. About this time, you'll also want Stamina, since running acro, FS, PS, and CJ actually puts you at a deficit of endurance when you start burning on top of those toggles.
By exponential, I mean 10-20 minutes longer than without Tough.
Running without Acro is very, very bad post-20 or so. KD is horrid and present in about 90% of your foes (mostly luteys and bosses).
Running without Stamina after 24-ish makes you VERY susceptible to toggle drops, especially when facing end-draining foes en masse.
Moral: Get Stamina for the added drain of more toggles. Get it by 22 latest. Get Acro next for knockdown. Lastly, Tough is needed to cap smash/lethal. Boxing is needed for Tough, so get it out of the way early so it's not an issue later.
Fire tanks are VERY tight builds for those who wish to actually tank, and not be glorified scrappers. VERY tight. There is one wiggle possibility, and that's Taunt. Anything else moved later reduces the effectivness of a tanker-type fire tank DRASTICALLY.
I've actually observed this firsthand, both from my tank (correct build) and 5 other fire tanks (incorrect builds) who I have teamed with.
I've also come to the conclusion that slotting anything BUT resistance in your shields is a BAD move. Each SO reduces damage by quite a bit. It makes a DRASTIC difference.
Also, one mistake I continually see or hear: more than 2 resists in Tough/Weave with 6-slotted FS is a complete waste. With 2, and +2 green SOs, you are in the 106% s/l resist bracket. You're at 98% with white (even) SOs. Just don't do it; only 1 or 2 foes reduce damage resistances and they are all post-40. Don't worry about it, it doesn't happen that often.
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Can anyone confirm or elaborate on the red text? I've read 3 or 4 previous posts in the forums that say everything from you MUST 6 slot weave to only 2 slots in Weave and 3 in Tough or vice versa. Everyone seems to have the ironclad and 'undisputable' confirmation on their facts. Slotting assuming that FS and PS are both 6 slotted for DamRes, with CJ and Acro taken for additional protections)
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Tough, FS and PS are Resistance, Weave is DEFENSE.
The only way to mitigate Psionic Damage is through DEFENSE, since we have no Resistance to it.
It also helps vs our other low Resistance stuff, like Cold, Toxic, and Energy/NegEnergy.
With Hasten, Combat Jumping, and 6 slotted Weave, we can hit about 38% Defense vs. Melee and Range attacks. (One slotted weave gets you a base of15%, so 25% with Hasten and CJ)
If you want to dodge that stuff, then a 6 slotted Weave is the best way to go. Oh, with out something like Hover, we have NO Defense vs AOE.
With 6 slotted FS (PS does not help vs Smash/Lethal), Tough only needs 1 slot to hit the cap at 90%. You might want a extra slot in there, because some things can lower you resistance/defense (Defender type baddies)
According to the coh hero planner v1.5a Fire sheild has resistance vs Disorient, and Plasma has resistance vs Hold and Sleep. Im not sure how good this resistance is, but since its a primary tanker pool im guessing its quite good. Now that covers all the toggle shut off effects doesnt it? Then you wouldnt need acrobatics, right? Also, you leave out hasten and combustion till way latter. These two skills, maybe even hasten alone instead of swift (at lv12) would make this build WAY more effective in those earlier lvs. Is there another reason you got swift so early and hasten so late? i couldnt imagine why... since you arent even getting stamina till lv26...
This is an AOE fire tank build right? The more AOE dmg you do, the faster they fall, which means u require less defense and kill faster (faster xp). I hear you speak of dmg over time so much, emphasizing your need for very good defense. Fact is fire tanks will not tank as well as say invul, no matter what you try (except maybe at very high lvs when u have tough and weave 6 sloted). Fire tanks make up low def with great offense, yet you dont utalize it untill much latter in this build. Adding Build up+hasten+combustion for example would nearly double ur dmg output (for lvs <30). Maybe its just your style to sit there and watch burn over and over not having to worry about time or your hp bar, but in my opinion the build seems a bit over defensive. Oh, and the offensive build below seems too offensive; too many attacks. With perma hasten +build up you dont need that many attacks. Im just saying why not get the essential AOE powers (like combustion) +hasten, maybe even build up sooner? Maybe its possible to make an effective tanker that is more balanced, just like you said "people think fire/fire tanks are the most balanced in the game". Go ahead, show me a build for one .
PS: This is my opinion, im a critic by nature, pls dont flame.
re acrobatics, as mephe writes:
+res(knockback, hold)
(mephe actually did suggest testing for urself if/when u need it. try and u'll know after short time, what u need it for)
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Maybe its possible to make an effective tanker that is more balanced, just like you said "people think fire/fire tanks are the most balanced in the game". Go ahead, show me a build for one
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the defensive build is very balanced, so no need to repost it. watch tanks with that build play and compare it to other builds. i constantly meet firetankers that simply don't have enough defense to really "tank" for the grp. checking their infos always explains the deaths very quickly. take mephe's build and u have a damn solid firetanker. proven tons of times.
mephe writes:
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So is the above build the only way to make a fire/fire tank?
YES! You have no free will its all an illusion
. Whoops flashback from Sunday church. Of course you dont have to use the above build; its very tank/defensive with just enough damage so you can solo any of your missions. But, its not a big damage dealer in a fast moving team until the late 40s. Its takes time to orient a group just right, fire off burn, and wait for them to stop smoking. Using FSC and combustion with fiery embrace and or buildup is much quicker when you have nova happy blasters.
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so feel free to make changes and adapt it to your playstyle. if you want more damage early off, go ahead and switch powers. just be aware that you will be playing a different kind of fire tanker than mephe is proposing here.
out of experience i can recommend mephe's build very much. the personal changes i have made for myself have been discussed and posted in this thread. it can solo very well and starts shining in groups with tough/weave. any less defense and i wouldn't have felt tankisch enough for my taste.
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PS: This is my opinion, im a critic by nature, pls dont flame.
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if u want to avoid flames, try wording your "critique" more constructively plus read the thread better, all your points of critique were explained.
Thank you icaros. This is why I love my fire tanking brothers. I post a collection of what seems to be valid facts with a few conclusions and then my brothers come and back it up with good solid testing. Its also why I dont have to post much because so many good fire tanks come back and share their experiences and help others out which makes more good new firetanks ad infinitem.
Hey if you are getting burned out with a fire tank and want to try something thats an good AOE team build check out the dark/electric builds in the defender forum. You can protect your team, solo your missions, and do some street grinding in hazards zones. Maybe not the same effectiveness of a fire tank but you will be surprised by the results.
as a side note
I fear the I5 release, seems the Devs have a target painted on all the melee classes. I just hope all the important quality of life things they did for I3 arn't undone by I5.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
grin mephe ich was reading the sith thread last week and had decided to play one when i found your "firetanking"-sith build in there. so a friend of mine and me, both of us now have dark/elecs 36 with that build and its absolutely amazing. we duoed the manticore tf with av hopkins, duoed numina with the +2 av jurassik (so easy..). another fun acpect of him is that by playing fully offensively "offenderish" you end up supporting the team greatly and thereby defending - tho i must admit oftentimes i am the one leading the group and doing the alpha. (by now i have completely given up the concept of defenders "defending" their grp.)
we're now shelving our sith's for a lil while cause they are soo powerfull (greatly fun tho! fluffy for president!) and just started 2 invulnerability/fire tankers because we like the concept of taking even more a beating than with fire/* and still being able to aoe well enough. and all that with a hopefully slightly less tight build than good ol firetankers'.
as aoe is still the name of this game the inv/fire's should work well, but just as you i am a little afraid of the upcoming changes to melee
I think the question was asked but I may have missed the answers...
1) Since with current AI changes, stacking burn makes for too much fleeing and current suggestions seem to be 'only one burn at a time', is HASTEN as necessary as it used to be?
2) With the punchvoke and putting taunts in BA and using Combustion to grab a lot of attention, when is the latest you would recommend getting taunt? (If at all)
3) With the Sleep/Hold/Disorient protection now in the toggles, is ACROBATICS still necessary?
I like to use Burn intermixed with some offense, but not going click-crazy. So Scorch, Boxing, BA, Combustion, eventually Incinerate and tossing in the occasional Consume or HealFlames is enough clicking for me. If I skipped Acrobatics and took Taunt and Hasten late (if at all) that would add a fair bit of flexibility to earlier power choices.
Please let me know what you think. Thank you
Too many alts to list
Every server but Pinnacle
Black Belt in Altoholism, Master of Indeterminancy
(although how it got in nancy I've no idea...)
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1) Since with current AI changes, stacking burn makes for too much fleeing and current suggestions seem to be 'only one burn at a time', is HASTEN as necessary as it used to be?
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Hasten is never necessary. Its only beneficial if you have more than 2 powers that you would have put recharge redux in. So its still nice for your attacks, healing flames, consume, conserve power etc. Thats more than 2 powers. Hastens effect on burn was never all that good.
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2) With the punchvoke and putting taunts in BA and using Combustion to grab a lot of attention, when is the latest you would recommend getting taunt? (If at all)
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Are you a team tank, a scrapper or a soloist? If you solo/scrap you dont ever need taunt. If you are a team tank taunt is never ever ever a bad choice.
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3) With the Sleep/Hold/Disorient protection now in the toggles, is ACROBATICS still necessary?
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Acrobatics was NEVER EVER needed for hold protection. Its needed because it provides good knockdown/knockback protection. Knockdowns suck, the new knockbacks suck even more because you get launched out of your burn patch and everything runs out of it to chase your @ss around the map. Until the devs put knockback protection in the fire tank shields acrobatics will be required.
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Mephe, can u get me a link to a good dark/elec defender build? I looked and couldnt find one. I'd like to try one out and see if it suits me better, but i know nothing about dark defenders.
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I took conserve power at 41....it's too good not to take. My attacks are Boxing, Scorch, BA, Burn, FSC, and Combustion. I'll probably take FE, Build Up, and Incinerate for the final three powers.
Really good guide, but it should be just that, as you play and get to know your character, you should come up with your own selections. I personally don't see the point of taking RotP.
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Yeah, I agree. I ended up taking Conserve at 41, Combustion at 44, and will take Fiery Embrace at 47 and Build Up at 49. Rise is semi-nifty and I wouldn't mind having it (there have been a couple of times I wished I had it), but I honestly can't think of any powers that I could drop that I would be willing to sacrifice for it. Maybe someday, if Hasten and Stamina get made inherent or something...
My best guess for the sith build would be buried in this thread
I perfer just stuffing 6 in there. It's easier, you can't always be green++.